Israel and West Bank Settlements

[PizzaSnake]

This makes no sense. As if these are mutually exclusive. That would be incorrect as the overlap is tremendous. The idea that you can bifurcate this country’s interested from the world is NOT progressive at all. Not one bit.

I never claimed to be progressive, just a political realist who is concerned about what goes on HERE in the USA. There is no overlap as you say. What goes on overseas is no concern of ours. The only ones who favor war are those who profit from it. I don't and neither will the vast majority of the populace. Those who want a war are free to enlist in the military or in some mercenary group overseas. To me, the better course is and will always be to work on fixing the problems we have here.

"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe." -- John Muir

"What goes on overseas is no concern of ours."

What? How is that even possible? The US exists within many different systems that link all of humanity. This is an incredible, and I do mean not believable, position. Please clarify this statement.

Or, were you employing hyperbole as a rhetorical device, meaning to indicate emphasis on a relatively disengaged foreign policy?

[Brooklyn]

So you are not a progressive by your own words then?

No, I said “as if there’s no overlap”. You are distorting that intentionally or not but that’s not what I said clearly. happy to further explicate if you can’t understand this.

Binary thinking - pro or anti war. Of course most everyone is anti war. That doesn’t mean at any cost. This is all absurd thinking or not thinking at all. Or intentionally trying to obscure and twist. That’s fine but it’s dishonest and a weak heuristic and let’s be clear your off the topic of issue now as well since I know you’ll recycle the same tired comments on that again. I find this game you play silly and juvenile and when that’s coming from me it says a lot.

Political realist? Could you present your position in this thread topic agun for us then?

Nothing necessarily "progressive" about wanting peace. After all, most of the articles I link to are from the conservative antiwar.com website. And most of those are written by Jewish writers (its creator Murray Rothbard was Jewish). Your childish emotionalism and projections serve no purpose. You say our interests are linked to overseas but you fail to prove it. Ask yourself, haven't you had enough of 20+ years of useless foreign wars in which Americans needlessly die, where trillions of dollars are wasted, where veterans wind up living on the streets, and your tax bill is increased while the wealthy profit at your expense? Now you want more? That's not patriotism, it's political insanity.

[Farfromgeneva]

So you are not a progressive by your own words then?

No, I said “as if there’s no overlap”. You are distorting that intentionally or not but that’s not what I said clearly. happy to further explicate if you can’t understand this.

Binary thinking - pro or anti war. Of course most everyone is anti war. That doesn’t mean at any cost. This is all absurd thinking or not thinking at all. Or intentionally trying to obscure and twist. That’s fine but it’s dishonest and a weak heuristic and let’s be clear your off the topic of issue now as well since I know you’ll recycle the same tired comments on that again. I find this game you play silly and juvenile and when that’s coming from me it says a lot.

Political realist? Could you present your position in this thread topic agun for us then?

Nothing necessarily "progressive" about wanting peace. After all, most of the articles I link to are from the conservative antiwar.com website. And most of those are written by Jewish writers (its creator Murray Rothbard was Jewish). Your childish emotionalism and projections serve no purpose. You say our interests are linked to overseas but you fail to prove it. Ask yourself, haven't you had enough of 20+ years of useless foreign wars in which Americans needlessly die, where trillions of dollars are wasted, where veterans wind up living on the streets, and your tax bill is increased while the wealthy profit at your expense? Now you want more? That's not patriotism, it's political insanity.

You’re making the argument every day and have long before I posted this so it’s actually up to you to prove that they are completely siloed and there’s no consequence to being a xenophobic state.

You make the declarations on this all the time. It’s up to you to prove not me. See how this works in the real world.

Nobody said I want more war. That’s pathetic and juvenile to posit into me. Just like the rest of your projections. I’m saying you make weak stupid cases and just do it louder like a hysterical “progressive” housewife in a upper middle class home in 1998. Louder and more a aggressively - same method Netenyahu uses which you reject is your modus here.

If you understand political insanity better than everyone here basically how come you’re always on the ring losing side? Do you believe you are a ubermensch? The mountain man who sits and watches YouTube discussions all day and night and projects things without any modicum of experiential understanding and a anachronistic view of the world as demonstrated by an inability to be able to digest anything in the color TV era. I don’t get how you can turd on everyone else all the time and be so wrong and lost in the real world aroudn you.

[MDlaxfan76]

This makes no sense. As if these are mutually exclusive. That would be incorrect as the overlap is tremendous. The idea that you can bifurcate this country’s interested from the world is NOT progressive at all. Not one bit.

I never claimed to be progressive, just a political realist who is concerned about what goes on HERE in the USA. There is no overlap as you say. What goes on overseas is no concern of ours. The only ones who favor war are those who profit from it. I don't and neither will the vast majority of the populace. Those who want a war are free to enlist in the military or in some mercenary group overseas. To me, the better course is and will always be to work on fixing the problems we have here.

"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe." -- John Muir

"What goes on overseas is no concern of ours."

What? How is that even possible? The US exists within many different systems that link all of humanity. This is an incredible, and I do mean not believable, position. Please clarify this statement.

Or, were you employing hyperbole as a rhetorical device, meaning to indicate emphasis on a relatively disengaged foreign policy?

It's one of the dumber claims we've read on here over the years.
You are kind to give him the out of your last sentence. Bet he doesn't take it.

[Brooklyn]

"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe." -- John Muir

"What goes on overseas is no concern of ours."

What? How is that even possible? The US exists within many different systems that link all of humanity. This is an incredible, and I do mean not believable, position. Please clarify this statement.

Or, were you employing hyperbole as a rhetorical device, meaning to indicate emphasis on a relatively disengaged foreign policy?

"hyperbole"

Just like the statements about playing the victim card and pretending that, somehow, the truth constitutes anti Semitism. Consider Max Blumenthal (he is also Jewish) and his challenge to the State Department over political double standards:





As the commentators write, the government responds with double speak and hyperbole as a matter of political expediency. I'm not buying any of it and neither are they.



Oh by the way, there are FAR more people who have died in African conflicts. Notice how nobody calls for war intervention in any of those wars. If war is so important to you people, why not show as much concern for them as you do for Israel and Ukraine?

[Brooklyn]

You’re making the argument every day and have long before I posted this so it’s actually up to you to prove that they are completely siloed and there’s no consequence to being a xenophobic state.

You make the declarations on this all the time. It’s up to you to prove not me. See how this works in the real world.

Nobody said I want more war. That’s pathetic and juvenile to posit into me. Just like the rest of your projections. I’m saying you make weak stupid cases and just do it louder like a hysterical “progressive” housewife in a upper middle class home in 1998. Louder and more a aggressively - same method Netenyahu uses which you reject is your modus here.

If you understand political insanity better than everyone here basically how come you’re always on the ring losing side? Do you believe you are a ubermensch? The mountain man who sits and watches YouTube discussions all day and night and projects things without any modicum of experiential understanding and a anachronistic view of the world as demonstrated by an inability to be able to digest anything in the color TV era. I don’t get how you can turd on everyone else all the time and be so wrong and lost in the real world aroudn you.

Well, it's like I said before: we have now lost two wars which cost us trillions. Evidently the loss of thousands of American lives and trillions of dollars is not enough for you and other delusionals here.

If you think I'm alone in my disgust for your wars, just read all those comments on the links to youtube and see the results of the polls which show a drastic drop in Biden's popularity ratings. The army can no longer recruit enough people because young people are sick and tired of dying for your wars. That's the world of reality that you fail to see. Looks as if you and your fellow war drum beaters will have to go back to the recruitment office and sign up since nobody is willing to fight overseas anymore.

Like I said before, when you go overseas to do your own fighting, please be sure to send us a picture postcard of your adventures. We'll wait for those pics.

[MDlaxfan76]

"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe." -- John Muir

"What goes on overseas is no concern of ours."

What? How is that even possible? The US exists within many different systems that link all of humanity. This is an incredible, and I do mean not believable, position. Please clarify this statement.

Or, were you employing hyperbole as a rhetorical device, meaning to indicate emphasis on a relatively disengaged foreign policy?

"hyperbole"

Just like the statements about playing the victim card and pretending that, somehow, the truth constitutes anti Semitism. Consider Max Blumenthal (he is also Jewish) and his challenge to the State Department over political double standards:





As the commentators write, the government responds with double speak and hyperbole as a matter of political expediency. I'm not buying any of it and neither are they.



Oh by the way, there are FAR more people who have died in African conflicts. Notice how nobody calls for war intervention in any of those wars. If war is so important to you people, why not show as much concern for them as you do for Israel and Ukraine?

I don't recall a single day in Africa in the past two decades in which so many American civilians were killed or taken hostage.

Doesn't mean that African conflicts, civil wars, etc aren't important, but the US has multiple treaty relationships with Israel, made over many decades of committed relationship. Many close familial ties between American citizens and Israelis, btw both Jewish and Muslim.

And yeah, the US has forces in Africa fighting terrorist cells, supporting allies doing so...good friend of my son is there now doing so.

One can argue against all such efforts, as you've ridiculously done with "What goes on overseas is no concern of ours." But your attempt at deflection to Africa is just another reflection of what has become apparent on here about your personal biases, no matter how much you cite Jewish voices calling for peace and dignity for all.

[PizzaSnake]

"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe." -- John Muir

"What goes on overseas is no concern of ours."

What? How is that even possible? The US exists within many different systems that link all of humanity. This is an incredible, and I do mean not believable, position. Please clarify this statement.

Or, were you employing hyperbole as a rhetorical device, meaning to indicate emphasis on a relatively disengaged foreign policy?

"hyperbole"

Just like the statements about playing the victim card and pretending that, somehow, the truth constitutes anti Semitism. Consider Max Blumenthal (he is also Jewish) and his challenge to the State Department over political double standards:





As the commentators write, the government responds with double speak and hyperbole as a matter of political expediency. I'm not buying any of it and neither are they.



Oh by the way, there are FAR more people who have died in African conflicts. Notice how nobody calls for war intervention in any of those wars. If war is so important to you people, why not show as much concern for them as you do for Israel and Ukraine?

Interesting response, if deflective and irrelevant. If you have read any of my comments re this specific topic (10/7 and ensuing violence from ALL actors, Israeli and its "opponents"), I think you would have realized I am NOT in favor of war. War is ritualized, mass murder where normal societal norms regarding violence are obviated in some weird spasm of immoral lawlessness in which the nano-scale patina of "civilization" is worn bare. Period.

Any attempt at justification or equivalency is at best sophistry. Just admit what the true intent is; don't dress it up, 'cause that dog won't hunt. Or, as I used to say to the Reaganauts -- "don't psis down my leg and tell me it's raining."

However, that is not what my comment to you about your use of language was about. So, any interest in debating that?

[Brooklyn]

I don't recall a single day in Africa in the past two decades in which so many American civilians were killed or taken hostage.

Doesn't mean that African conflicts, civil wars, etc aren't important, but the US has multiple treaty relationships with Israel, made over many decades of committed relationship. Many close familial ties between American citizens and Israelis, btw both Jewish and Muslim.

And yeah, the US has forces in Africa fighting terrorist cells, supporting allies doing so...good friend of my son is there now doing so.

One can argue against all such efforts, as you've ridiculously done with "What goes on overseas is no concern of ours." But your attempt at deflection to Africa is just another reflection of what has become apparent on here about your personal biases, no matter how much you cite Jewish voices calling for peace and dignity for all.

Dunno about you but I recall over 240 Americans killed (and many more injured) in Beirut, Lebanon in the 1980s but the USA did nothing about it. Instead some people attributed it to Hezbollah even though the organization didn't even exist at the time. Of course, had the USA minded its own business and stayed out that conflict no Americans would have died there.

"Personal bias" ~ yeah I'll call it that. The safety and well being of the USA is my bias. Fighting overseas does nothing for us. Instead, we got 9/11 and two needless wars that we lost. While people like you are applauding the wars, I condemn them because it is utterly stupid to be fighting wars in which we have absolutely no interest whatsoever. I derive no profit whatsoever from wars neither does anyone else who doesn't have stock in the military industrial complex. Nobody wants to fight or die in a war that is of no concern to us. This is why the army can't find enough recruits. If you are still so hellbent on having another war, tell all those young people in colleges and high schools that they need to enlist for their own good. Yeah, good luck with luck, pal. Oh by the way, please be very sure not to set up a false flag operation such as a sneak attack on American vessels or domestic terrorist attacks by fifth columnists in order to "justify" another war.

[Farfromgeneva]

This makes no sense. As if these are mutually exclusive. That would be incorrect as the overlap is tremendous. The idea that you can bifurcate this country’s interested from the world is NOT progressive at all. Not one bit.

I never claimed to be progressive, just a political realist who is concerned about what goes on HERE in the USA. There is no overlap as you say. What goes on overseas is no concern of ours. The only ones who favor war are those who profit from it. I don't and neither will the vast majority of the populace. Those who want a war are free to enlist in the military or in some mercenary group overseas. To me, the better course is and will always be to work on fixing the problems we have here.

"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe." -- John Muir

"What goes on overseas is no concern of ours."

What? How is that even possible? The US exists within many different systems that link all of humanity. This is an incredible, and I do mean not believable, position. Please clarify this statement.

Or, were you employing hyperbole as a rhetorical device, meaning to indicate emphasis on a relatively disengaged foreign policy?

Presumably this but the impugning of others on a moral level while spitting this out is insane. Literally.

[Farfromgeneva]

You’re making the argument every day and have long before I posted this so it’s actually up to you to prove that they are completely siloed and there’s no consequence to being a xenophobic state.

You make the declarations on this all the time. It’s up to you to prove not me. See how this works in the real world.

Nobody said I want more war. That’s pathetic and juvenile to posit into me. Just like the rest of your projections. I’m saying you make weak stupid cases and just do it louder like a hysterical “progressive” housewife in a upper middle class home in 1998. Louder and more a aggressively - same method Netenyahu uses which you reject is your modus here.

If you understand political insanity better than everyone here basically how come you’re always on the ring losing side? Do you believe you are a ubermensch? The mountain man who sits and watches YouTube discussions all day and night and projects things without any modicum of experiential understanding and a anachronistic view of the world as demonstrated by an inability to be able to digest anything in the color TV era. I don’t get how you can turd on everyone else all the time and be so wrong and lost in the real world aroudn you.

Well, it's like I said before: we have now lost two wars which cost us trillions. Evidently the loss of thousands of American lives and trillions of dollars is not enough for you and other delusionals here.

If you think I'm alone in my disgust for your wars, just read all those comments on the links to youtube and see the results of the polls which show a drastic drop in Biden's popularity ratings. The army can no longer recruit enough people because young people are sick and tired of dying for your wars. That's the world of reality that you fail to see. Looks as if you and your fellow war drum beaters will have to go back to the recruitment office and sign up since nobody is willing to fight overseas anymore.

Like I said before, when you go overseas to do your own fighting, please be sure to send us a picture postcard of your adventures. We'll wait for those pics.

Keep being an incendiary advocate. It’s serves you well clearly.

But understand like you keep saying and the world isn’t listening or believes what you do. I’m sure that feels like being heroic. But it’s impractical at the very least.

[Brooklyn]

Interesting response, if deflective and irrelevant. If you have read any of my comments re this specific topic (10/7 and ensuing violence from ALL actors, Israeli and its "opponents"), I think you would have realized I am NOT in favor of war. War is ritualized, mass murder where normal societal norms regarding violence are obviated in some weird spasm of immoral lawlessness in which the nano-scale patina of "civilization" is worn bare. Period.

Any attempt at justification or equivalency is at best sophistry. Just admit what the true intent is; don't dress it up, 'cause that dog won't hunt. Or, as I used to say to the Reaganauts -- "don't psis down my leg and tell me it's raining."

However, that is not what my comment to you about your use of language was about. So, any interest in debating that?

I am interested in debating issues, not personalities if that's what your driving at. The words and issues I use here are no different than anything written by Max Blumenthal or Murray Rothbard both of whom criticize hypocrisy and double standards of those hellbent on starting wars or intervention in foreign affairs that are of no concern to us in the USA. All of these arguments are readily avoidable. Just stay out of the conflicts and let the parties overseas settle it themselves. While it is true that they have had centuries of conflict and ample time to correct them, our intervention has not settled any of their problems by so much as an iota. Further intervention will only cost us more trillions of dollars and more war casualties. None of this is worth it.

[a fan]

This makes no sense. As if these are mutually exclusive. That would be incorrect as the overlap is tremendous. The idea that you can bifurcate this country’s interested from the world is NOT progressive at all. Not one bit.

I never claimed to be progressive, just a political realist who is concerned about what goes on HERE in the USA. There is no overlap as you say. What goes on overseas is no concern of ours. The only ones who favor war are those who profit from it. I don't and neither will the vast majority of the populace. Those who want a war are free to enlist in the military or in some mercenary group overseas. To me, the better course is and will always be to work on fixing the problems we have here.

"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe." -- John Muir

"What goes on overseas is no concern of ours."

What? How is that even possible? The US exists within many different systems that link all of humanity. This is an incredible, and I do mean not believable, position. Please clarify this statement.

Or, were you employing hyperbole as a rhetorical device, meaning to indicate emphasis on a relatively disengaged foreign policy?

It's one of the dumber claims we've read on here over the years.
You are kind to give him the out of your last sentence. Bet he doesn't take it.

Brookie is flat out lying, again.

He tells us that what happens overseas is none of our business.

But he's been telling us that the Israeli people are "bad" for how many posts now?

Which is it, Brookie? Is it none of our business, or isn't it? If it's none of our business, stop posting about anything but US funds to BOTH Israel and Palestininans. Oh, that's right....you forgot to mention we've been sending money and aid to Gaza.

And your multiple posts about the hundreds of hostages being held by Palestinians is just....touching. Nice to see how much you care about the Israeli people.


This is the game....Brookie will keep moving the goalposts to make it so you don't notice that he wants the Jewish people out of Israel, and he thinks that having the US pull out of the region (snicker) will lead to the collapse of the Israeli State. And then his side will "win".

[Brooklyn]

Keep being an incendiary advocate. It’s serves you well clearly.

But understand like you keep saying and the world isn’t listening or believes what you do. I’m sure that feels like being heroic. But it’s impractical at the very least.

"incendiary''


Still another projection.

I want peace, not war as so many of you want. Therefore that makes you the incendiary ones.

Not impractical. Just a return to normalcy just like our Founding Fathers demanded. If they were here today they would be the first ones to say get out of the UN and NATO. Only those who don't know their history would deny that truth.

I challenge anyone on this forum to prove to me that the Constitution calls for intervention in foreign wars. As always, good luck with that one.

[a fan]

I am interested in debating issues, not personalities if that's what your driving at. T

Yeah, no you're not. You keep calling posters bigots and racists and war mongers.

You already lost the debate....you believe the Jewish people "stole" Israel....while in the same breathin, think your home up North that you stole from the Native Americans is all yours.

Hypocrite.

[Farfromgeneva]

"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe." -- John Muir

"What goes on overseas is no concern of ours."

What? How is that even possible? The US exists within many different systems that link all of humanity. This is an incredible, and I do mean not believable, position. Please clarify this statement.

Or, were you employing hyperbole as a rhetorical device, meaning to indicate emphasis on a relatively disengaged foreign policy?

"hyperbole"

Just like the statements about playing the victim card and pretending that, somehow, the truth constitutes anti Semitism. Consider Max Blumenthal (he is also Jewish) and his challenge to the State Department over political double standards:





As the commentators write, the government responds with double speak and hyperbole as a matter of political expediency. I'm not buying any of it and neither are they.



Oh by the way, there are FAR more people who have died in African conflicts. Notice how nobody calls for war intervention in any of those wars. If war is so important to you people, why not show as much concern for them as you do for Israel and Ukraine?

Interesting response, if deflective and irrelevant. If you have read any of my comments re this specific topic (10/7 and ensuing violence from ALL actors, Israeli and its "opponents"), I think you would have realized I am NOT in favor of war. War is ritualized, mass murder where normal societal norms regarding violence are obviated in some weird spasm of immoral lawlessness in which the nano-scale patina of "civilization" is worn bare. Period.

Any attempt at justification or equivalency is at best sophistry. Just admit what the true intent is; don't dress it up, 'cause that dog won't hunt. Or, as I used to say to the Reaganauts -- "don't psis down my leg and tell me it's raining."

However, that is not what my comment to you about your use of language was about. So, any interest in debating that?

You’ve had the patience to articulate what I’ve been saying for a while and reductively called a fringe advocate-taking an extreme position Ian a strident manner and being bellicose to anyone who dares question. Lobs insults and shots right back and looks to become the victim themselves. Pretend and plays this petty game of “I don’t insult others” and thinks he’s talking to small children or something. I’m sure in a closed circle of people where there confirmation all around that works wonders but not the the real world.

[Brooklyn]

̶B̶r̶o̶o̶k̶i̶e̶ fanny is flat out lying, again.

He tells us that what happens overseas is none of our business.

But he's been telling us that the Israeli people are "bad" for how many posts now?

Which is it, Brookie? Is it none of our business, or isn't it? If it's none of our business, stop posting about anything but US funds to BOTH Israel and Palestininans. Oh, that's right....you forgot to mention we've been sending money and aid to Gaza.

And your multiple posts about the hundreds of hostages being held by Palestinians is just....touching. Nice to see how much you care about the Israeli people.


This is the game....Brookie will keep moving the goalposts to make it so you don't notice that he wants the Jewish people out of Israel, and he thinks that having the US pull out of the region (snicker) will lead to the collapse of the Israeli State. And then his side will "win".

Go ahead. Keep sending them YOUR money. Go enlist in the IDF if you want. Man up and back up your words with actions. Again, send us those picture postcards.

[Farfromgeneva]

Keep being an incendiary advocate. It’s serves you well clearly.

But understand like you keep saying and the world isn’t listening or believes what you do. I’m sure that feels like being heroic. But it’s impractical at the very least.

"incendiary''


Still another projection.

I want peace, not war as so many of you want. Therefore that makes you the incendiary ones.

Not impractical. Just a return to normalcy just like our Founding Fathers demanded. If they were here today they would be the first ones to say get out of the UN and NATO. Only those who don't know their history would deny that truth.

I challenge anyone on this forum to prove to me that the Constitution calls for intervention in foreign wars. As always, good luck with that one.

Tell me exactly how you conclude I want war because I take issue with your incredibly low intelligence arguments? Explain this. It’s nonsense and anyone with a brain knows it. And if you’re not saying me then why do you keep is sitting on using this third person baby sh*t? Maybe CUNY isn’t the greatest university after all and the IRS is not a good training ground for people as you may believe?

This is the entire basis of behavior around here I didn’t roll into a hippy commune. This is learned behavior for me. How about you?

[Farfromgeneva]

I am interested in debating issues, not personalities if that's what your driving at. T

Yeah, no you're not. You keep calling posters bigots and racists and war mongers.

You already lost the debate....you believe the Jewish people "stole" Israel....while in the same breathin, think your home up North that you stole from the Native Americans is all yours.

Hypocrite.

[Brooklyn]

I am interested in debating issues, not personalities if that's what your driving at. T

Yeah, no you're not. You keep calling posters bigots and racists and war mongers.

You already lost the debate....you believe the Jewish people "stole" Israel....while in the same breathin, think your home up North that you stole from the Native Americans is all yours.

Hypocrite.

All hyperbole. As if none of those words were directed at me.

See what I mean?