Dartmouth 2024

[mdk01]

Wow, looky here, Dartmouth leading the Ivy in page count. Not that the prolific posters on the Hop thread are quaking in their boots or anything. Sympathy and condolences on the passing of Buddy Teevens, a good Green man through and through. Of course, the hiring of Kirwan sparked a lot of discussion, and I would say optimism in the Dartmouth camp. It looks like Sean was very ready to become a Head Coach, and it wouldn't surprise me to see the Big Green rise in lacrosse stature, with strong and exciting performances on the field.

Thanks re Buddy; terrific guy.
https://twitter.com/dartmouthsports/sta ... 1944261632

Yes, feels like Sean and co are landing some excellent players; I don't know each, but I do know that some turned down multiple strong Ivy and ACC offers to accept Dartmouth.

Per IL, here are the current Dartmouth commitments, with a link to their summer 2023 video.

Def - Frank Argilagos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj7MWKeqKPA
Def - George Hawley https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwRkgsHOSEc
G - Max Becker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNAc_9SSiQA
Att - Stu Gates https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUYyVuaEvbo
Att - Kevin Graff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bd9m7cQgtQ
FOGO - Dylan Baumgarth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apJ0d33dPJ4
SSDM Blake Cascadden https://youtu.be/oFp6qWcVSao?feature=shared
SSDM/Def - Gavin Parks https://imlca.sportsrecruits.com/athlet ... eo=3091535

Imagine yourself a college coach.

You can tell what a player can, and can't do, based on these videos ?

good luck

My guess is they make their evaluations on more than these videos.

[MDlaxfan76]

Wow, looky here, Dartmouth leading the Ivy in page count. Not that the prolific posters on the Hop thread are quaking in their boots or anything. Sympathy and condolences on the passing of Buddy Teevens, a good Green man through and through. Of course, the hiring of Kirwan sparked a lot of discussion, and I would say optimism in the Dartmouth camp. It looks like Sean was very ready to become a Head Coach, and it wouldn't surprise me to see the Big Green rise in lacrosse stature, with strong and exciting performances on the field.

Thanks re Buddy; terrific guy.
https://twitter.com/dartmouthsports/sta ... 1944261632

Yes, feels like Sean and co are landing some excellent players; I don't know each, but I do know that some turned down multiple strong Ivy and ACC offers to accept Dartmouth.

Per IL, here are the current Dartmouth commitments, with a link to their summer 2023 video.

Def - Frank Argilagos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj7MWKeqKPA
Def - George Hawley https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwRkgsHOSEc
G - Max Becker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNAc_9SSiQA
Att - Stu Gates https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUYyVuaEvbo
Att - Kevin Graff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bd9m7cQgtQ
FOGO - Dylan Baumgarth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apJ0d33dPJ4
SSDM Blake Cascadden https://youtu.be/oFp6qWcVSao?feature=shared
SSDM/Def - Gavin Parks https://imlca.sportsrecruits.com/athlet ... eo=3091535

Imagine yourself a college coach.

You can tell what a player can, and can't do, based on these videos ?

good luck

My guess is they make their evaluations on more than these videos.

[runrussellrun]

Wow, looky here, Dartmouth leading the Ivy in page count. Not that the prolific posters on the Hop thread are quaking in their boots or anything. Sympathy and condolences on the passing of Buddy Teevens, a good Green man through and through. Of course, the hiring of Kirwan sparked a lot of discussion, and I would say optimism in the Dartmouth camp. It looks like Sean was very ready to become a Head Coach, and it wouldn't surprise me to see the Big Green rise in lacrosse stature, with strong and exciting performances on the field.

Thanks re Buddy; terrific guy.
https://twitter.com/dartmouthsports/sta ... 1944261632

Yes, feels like Sean and co are landing some excellent players; I don't know each, but I do know that some turned down multiple strong Ivy and ACC offers to accept Dartmouth.

Per IL, here are the current Dartmouth commitments, with a link to their summer 2023 video.

Def - Frank Argilagos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj7MWKeqKPA
Def - George Hawley https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwRkgsHOSEc
G - Max Becker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNAc_9SSiQA
Att - Stu Gates https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUYyVuaEvbo
Att - Kevin Graff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bd9m7cQgtQ
FOGO - Dylan Baumgarth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apJ0d33dPJ4
SSDM Blake Cascadden https://youtu.be/oFp6qWcVSao?feature=shared
SSDM/Def - Gavin Parks https://imlca.sportsrecruits.com/athlet ... eo=3091535

Imagine yourself a college coach.

You can tell what a player can, and can't do, based on these videos ?

good luck

My guess is they make their evaluations on more than these videos.

Oh really.......what else ?

[Dosadi]

I'd presume such video is just a small part of any recruiting process by any coach. I'd presume more impactful in this case are the following:

1 - This coaching group led the "Iron Pine" recruiting camp hosted at Dartmouth College this past summer. At least one (and maybe 2?) of the summer highlight films show the player playing in the Dartmouth Indoor facility, so I presume they saw some of them there. Unlike other prospect days, this event was held over multiple days. And as such, coaches can see the players in multiple areas of campus life, over multiple days, in addition to watching them play repeatedly live.

2 - Coach Kirwan (UVA), Whitcher (York) and Herring (UMBC) were at many of the summer events in 2023, and at those events for years prior 2023. You may rightfully question whether such club team participation is indicative of future success, but they were all hustling the summer circuit all summer. I'm not sure, but I assume that's the case for Coach Helfrich as well because he was at Catholic University as an assistant.

3 - And those 3 had been doing that for years as they were previous assistant coaches at the highest level. So they don't come to the 2025 recruiting period starting from scratch - I'd presume they'd been looking at players (and taking recommendations from trusted coaches) in this class previously.

I would agree that making recruiting decisions from solely film is a decision fraught with risk, and hopefully not done by many coaches at this level. But I do think that film can and does play a role in the process.

[ohmilax34]

I'd presume such video is just a small part of any recruiting process by any coach. I'd presume more impactful in this case are the following:

1 - This coaching group led the "Iron Pine" recruiting camp hosted at Dartmouth College this past summer. At least one (and maybe 2?) of the summer highlight films show the player playing in the Dartmouth Indoor facility, so I presume they saw some of them there. Unlike other prospect days, this event was held over multiple days. And as such, coaches can see the players in multiple areas of campus life, over multiple days, in addition to watching them play repeatedly live.

2 - Coach Kirwan (UVA), Whitcher (York) and Herring (UMBC) were at many of the summer events in 2023, and at those events for years prior 2023. You may rightfully question whether such club team participation is indicative of future success, but they were all hustling the summer circuit all summer. I'm not sure, but I assume that's the case for Coach Helfrich as well because he was at Catholic University as an assistant.

3 - And those 3 had been doing that for years as they were previous assistant coaches at the highest level. So they don't come to the 2025 recruiting period starting from scratch - I'd presume they'd been looking at players (and taking recommendations from trusted coaches) in this class previously.

I would agree that making recruiting decisions from solely film is a decision fraught with risk, and hopefully not done by many coaches at this level. But I do think that film can and does play a role in the process.

I'd like to add to this list full game videos. I think those are popular with coaches. The ability to rewind, pause, etc makes useful.

Sean Kirwan was on Jamie Munro's podcast recently and talked about a lot of things, including recruiting, so RRR, don't take our word for it.

[MDlaxfan76]

And of course, in May Sean knew UVA's top 200 'follow' list, too. And 100 and 50...and so on.
Most, if not all, of the recruits in this cycle would likely have been on one or more of those lists.

He'd have known which players UVA's coaches were assessing at that point as having more potential than "IL rankings", which they thought might be less. They make their own lists... Those assessments were based on earlier camps and, as ohmi indicates, on full game film, with a good understanding of caliber of opponents. Then with the summer to focus on confirming those impressions and being on the lookout for emerging talent not previously on the radar. Good coaches are not watching summer games idly, they're focused on a specific set of players they decided to follow. I know that my son was watched in 5 different tournaments before finally getting the nod his summer before senior year. Late recruit. But that sort of close watching is typical whether in junior or senior summer....it's easier now with full games being available, but for guys like him who hadn't been the starter they year before, the summer is necessary. Someone mentioned Jack Kelly on another thread; same situation sitting behind the senior the year before.)

While UVA has significantly more recruiting pull and leeway in admissions than Dartmouth, Sean was clear that his targets are the types of athletes UVA would want to attract. And indeed, I'm aware that multiple had such ACC and Ivy offers and chose Dartmouth.

In general, though, I think Sean and his assistants will be most successful with the players on the rise rather than those who were recognized a lot earlier by many. Playing against strong competition and excelling, with lots of athletic upside...and a hunger factor. That's the profile.

Of course, that's what many programs want !

So, getting those who fit the profile onto campus is key...if you love the special feel of Dartmouth, it's likely a win...if not, there's lots of other terrific places to play ball.

In these initial few years, the additional pitch is the likelihood of early playing time and impact, being important to a program that is being well supported on campus.

These sorts of youtube videos are merely 'teasers' to attract getting on a list, share some contact info as part of kid's reach out to coaches in advance of camps...and as a little ego fodder typically for the rents!

But sheesh, these are the highlights, not the plays where they made a dumb play, a poor approach, hung their heads, moped around after a goal, whatever...so, full games and coaches' analyses need to be looked at, not highlight reels...and preferably in-person views. And if there's a good pipeline of alumni watching kids in programs they follow closely, that can help too in understanding how a kid is when the chips are down, off the field, etc.

From our perspective as just fans, it's a quick way for us to see a kid's play way in advance of his arrival on campus. The way I watch them is to see what they think constitutes play worthy of highlighting, whether their approaches on D are solid, whether they display some raw athleticism, whether there's sound decision making and teamwork, etc...and looking at specific technique by position.

And I look to see if there's anything I can glean about the quality of competition being faced as that makes a world of difference to how a kid 'shows'. A lot of highlights have plays where it's obvious that the opponent has poor skills, technique etc, so it's no big deal that the highlighted player ran past them, stuck the ball past the goalie etc.

But these aren't what coaches use to actually make decisions!

[MDlaxfan76]

I'd presume such video is just a small part of any recruiting process by any coach. I'd presume more impactful in this case are the following:

1 - This coaching group led the "Iron Pine" recruiting camp hosted at Dartmouth College this past summer. At least one (and maybe 2?) of the summer highlight films show the player playing in the Dartmouth Indoor facility, so I presume they saw some of them there. Unlike other prospect days, this event was held over multiple days. And as such, coaches can see the players in multiple areas of campus life, over multiple days, in addition to watching them play repeatedly live.

2 - Coach Kirwan (UVA), Whitcher (York) and Herring (UMBC) were at many of the summer events in 2023, and at those events for years prior 2023. You may rightfully question whether such club team participation is indicative of future success, but they were all hustling the summer circuit all summer. I'm not sure, but I assume that's the case for Coach Helfrich as well because he was at Catholic University as an assistant.

3 - And those 3 had been doing that for years as they were previous assistant coaches at the highest level. So they don't come to the 2025 recruiting period starting from scratch - I'd presume they'd been looking at players (and taking recommendations from trusted coaches) in this class previously.

I would agree that making recruiting decisions from solely film is a decision fraught with risk, and hopefully not done by many coaches at this level. But I do think that film can and does play a role in the process.

I'd like to add to this list full game videos. I think those are popular with coaches. The ability to rewind, pause, etc makes useful.

Sean Kirwan was on Jamie Munro's podcast recently and talked about a lot of things, including recruiting, so RRR, don't take our word for it.

of course, RRR is just trolling, likes to cr-p on pretty much anyone and anything.

[NNELax]

I can tell you I've watched Becker for years and he is underrated...Steals games in club and for his HS...great get

[MDlaxfan76]

I can tell you I've watched Becker for years and he is underrated...Steals games in club and for his HS...great get

That's great to hear!

If you know him or the family, I'd urge getting to one of the better goalie schools to work on technique, stick position, footwork etc to go with that spark he seems to have. Everything is way, way harder in college and getting a head start on technique is going to be essential to be able to perform at whatever his upside potential actually is.

Just watching highlight hype tape, I see serious flaws on technique. So, if he's successful now at the current level of competition, he can get much better with some serious goalie coaching help. Typically you don't get enough of that in your regular HS or club experience.

[runrussellrun]

I can tell you I've watched Becker for years and he is underrated...Steals games in club and for his HS...great get

That's great to hear!

If you know him or the family, I'd urge getting to one of the better goalie schools to work on technique, stick position, footwork etc to go with that spark he seems to have. Everything is way, way harder in college and getting a head start on technique is going to be essential to be able to perform at whatever his upside potential actually is.

Just watching highlight hype tape, I see serious flaws on technique. So, if he's successful now at the current level of competition, he can get much better with some serious goalie coaching help. Typically you don't get enough of that in your regular HS or club experience.

Serious flaws .........could you name one, please ?

and, while you're at it, provide the names of some of the better goalie schools. (Looks like the young man lives in New England....so, there IS that )

[MDlaxfan76]

I can tell you I've watched Becker for years and he is underrated...Steals games in club and for his HS...great get

That's great to hear!

If you know him or the family, I'd urge getting to one of the better goalie schools to work on technique, stick position, footwork etc to go with that spark he seems to have. Everything is way, way harder in college and getting a head start on technique is going to be essential to be able to perform at whatever his upside potential actually is.

Just watching highlight hype tape, I see serious flaws on technique. So, if he's successful now at the current level of competition, he can get much better with some serious goalie coaching help. Typically you don't get enough of that in your regular HS or club experience.

Serious flaws .........could you name one, please ?

and, while you're at it, provide the names of some of the better goalie schools. (Looks like the young man lives in New England....so, there IS that )

There are good goalie coaches in every major market as well as now goalie specific programs that travel to most markets. I'm not concerned about your play in the goal, RRR, so if the youngster wants advice he or his family can contact me by PM. Better yet, he can ask the coaches at Dartmouth for advice as to where he can get extra skills work!

As to technique, I realize that most viewers wouldn't see what I see, but here's an easy to see issue. Look at his hands and stick position in prep and just before shots. His stick is not held correctly, with full face toward shooter, perpendicular to ground, rather at times it's nearly horizontal with less than half the face toward the ball. Super basic.

I see lots of young tenders with technique flaws who overcome that deficit at the high school level with athleticism and instincts. However, given their athletic success early, some fail to work on the technical skills and instead rely on that early athleticism to carry them. Those goalies typically hit a wall in college, some hard.

However, proper technique, footwork, etc can make a critical difference that will be necessary to excel against the best in college. Like anything else, reps done properly under a good eye will advance skills, and ultimately be the basis for confidence, necessary for the next level. Everything speeds up a heck of a lot in college, the pace of play, the speed and angles of shots...everything.

So, the best never stop working on being better.

You can apply that to any position, but we're talking tenders at the moment.

[runrussellrun]

I can tell you I've watched Becker for years and he is underrated...Steals games in club and for his HS...great get

That's great to hear!

If you know him or the family, I'd urge getting to one of the better goalie schools to work on technique, stick position, footwork etc to go with that spark he seems to have. Everything is way, way harder in college and getting a head start on technique is going to be essential to be able to perform at whatever his upside potential actually is.

Just watching highlight hype tape, I see serious flaws on technique. So, if he's successful now at the current level of competition, he can get much better with some serious goalie coaching help. Typically you don't get enough of that in your regular HS or club experience.

Serious flaws .........could you name one, please ?

and, while you're at it, provide the names of some of the better goalie schools. (Looks like the young man lives in New England....so, there IS that )

There are good goalie coaches in every major market as well as now goalie specific programs that travel to most markets. I'm not concerned about your play in the goal, RRR, so if the youngster wants advice he or his family can contact me by PM. Better yet, he can ask the coaches at Dartmouth for advice as to where he can get extra skills work! You clearly wrote, "better" goalie schools, and lamely hide behind the "PM" me comment. Par for the course from you......a non answer.

As to technique, I realize that most viewers wouldn't see what I see, but here's an easy to see issue. Look at his hands and stick position in prep and just before shots. His stick is not held correctly, with full face toward shooter, perpendicular to ground, rather at times it's nearly horizontal with less than half the face toward the ball. Super basic. Making the save IS all the matters. Bill's Beroza and Pilat both teach the vertical stick hold. But....YOU....apparently, have taught multiple AA goalies in your coaching career.

I see lots of young tenders with technique flaws who overcome that deficit at the high school level with athleticism and instincts. However, given their athletic success early, some fail to work on the technical skills and instead rely on that early athleticism to carry them. Those goalies typically hit a wall in college, some hard. bet you love the "down the line" drill fuffg

However, proper technique, footwork, etc can make a critical difference that will be necessary to excel against the best in college. Like anything else, reps done properly under a good eye will advance skills, and ultimately be the basis for confidence, necessary for the next level. Everything speeds up a heck of a lot in college, the pace of play, the speed and angles of shots...everything. Vague, this "proper technique" stuff. Dillon Ward certainly has a completely different technique than Blaze Riordan.....but, again......making the save IS all that matters. Lacrosse coaching loves to emphasize "both hands", but NOT for goalies ? huh. Why not put the goalie stick in the left hand when ball carrier is driving side right ?

So, the best never stop working on being better.

You can apply that to any position, but we're talking tenders at the moment.

We think it is silly that goalies end up completely out of the net after attempting to make a save......less......IS more. We taught and teach that.

[MDlaxfan76]

I dunno who you 'teach, rrr, but I'd warn them to stay away.

I haven't coached for well over a decade, so I'd certainly not recommend me! My son is no longer coaching, but he coached a heck of a lot tenders last decade, both guys and gals, who went on to top notch college play as a side gig to support his own training. He is able to "see" much more than the basic stuff I can see when watching a kid. We debate some of the stuff, but I'd defer to his expertise over mine any day.

so, as I said, I'd advise this youngster to ask the Dartmouth coaches who he should spend time with on skill development.

But yeah, my understanding is that Pilat teaches technique properly. I haven't watched his camp, so I'm not going to endorse them individually, nor Goaliesmith, nor anyone else specifically who serves the New England area. Down my way, I'd recommend Toomey's camp, and a number of goalie specialist groups, ala Goaliesmith. By "better" I meant no aspersion to a particular camp or coach.

I simply meant that there are specialist coaches who work with youngsters, with much more attention than most club and HS coaching staffs can do or are trained to do. And it takes a heck of a lot more reps than most kids get just playing HS and club ball.

I'd recommend the same sort of specialist training for college bound FOGO's.

There's nothing you can do about raw talent level, but you can work to optimize talents. The best never stop doing so.

You do make an excellent point that I'd meant to mention. There are numerous styles of play that can work well for different tenders who have differing physical traits. My son, and I agree, believes that coaches should work with the style the player 'owns' and improve upon it on the margin. It's definitely not 'one size/method fits all' But that's not tossing out proper technique, stick position, footwork, so as to maximize efficient movement. Once these are mastered, they become instinctual and the player can become all the more creative in the moment.

Personally, I like a tender who gets to the level where he 'gets in the head' of shooters, where they press on their shots. It's an offensive mindset. But that only comes when confidence is based on the work put in to be the best one can be.

[MDlaxfan76]

As to both hands, I like tenders to be fully comfortable handling the ball with either hand, catching, passing, carrying. Can help a ton with clearing.

I think it would be quite unusual to be equally capable of making swift efficient movements to stop the ball with either hand. The thousands of rep drills necessary to be optimally quick and efficient, driving the hands, would need to be made twice as many as with a strong hand focus. I'd rather focus on keeping the primary sharp.

But it would be an interesting look dilemma for shooters, so if a kid wanted to try it, I'd say go ahead and be creative. I don't think I'd predict that it would be all that effective, but it could be fun...and the game is supposed to be fun!

[Dosadi]

Anyone with any reports as to how fall practices have been going? I know that there are no scrimmages planned for the fall.

[LaxAllStars]

Sean Kirwan podcast with QK
Nov 1 2023

https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show ... ge-e2bdrn7

[mdk01]

Sean Kirwan podcast with QK
Nov 1 2023

https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show ... ge-e2bdrn7

Not a surprise, but mostly coachspeak. Would like to have heard about any freshman who might contribute this year.

[Dosadi]

Sean Kirwan Podcast with New England Lacrosse Journal's Jack Piatelli and Kyle Devitte
Released 11/9
https://www.podbean.com/ep/pb-azvq9-14f3fd0

[Sportin' Life]

USA Lax Mag's look at Kirwan's first fall in Hanover: https://www.usalaxmagazine.com/college/ ... -this-fall. It touches on his take on the team's pre-existing culture and a focus on fundamentals that has resulted in an increased pace of play in practice. Worth noting that the piece was penned by a Dartmouth athletics staffer. Nevertheless things are pointing in the right direction for continued improvement.

[GaitsRightHand]

Blake Cascadden (SSDM) '25 decommitted from Dartmouth for Cornell. Older bro is Cornell's fogo.