Indeed.youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:26 amI jsut went through a debacle with IRS two years ago. They don't even answer the phone. I had to google all the numbers you had to press just to try and get into a queue....painful is an understatement.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:13 amyes, without reservation, I wouldn't want a bunch of "Brooklyns" in charge!Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:56 amBut there is a cost to audits and actions that are incorrect or superfluous. Imagine 50 empowered Brooklyn’s. The cost of the friction and all the additional dollars spent on attorneys and accountants to manage that issue is potentially significant so that has to be accounted for in the model and most likely it’s close to neutral when you factor the externalities of increase enforcement. Then it becomes a debate on who will generated a higher velocity of those dollars, Govt or the private sector.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:59 amkeeping it real simple, if you do fewer audits of tax cheats you don't collect those revenues and you encourage more people to cheat without fear of being caught.youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:51 amI'd love to know how they came up with the 26billion over a decade number.....another failed model? Or a simple math division of IRS employees vs tax revenue? I'm not discounting they are correct, just seems like same side arguing and justifying more cash in their coffers. https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/02/politics ... 10%20years.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:39 amcradle, take a moment and actually think through what the MAGA House is proposing and tell us what you think of that proposal.cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:22 amWho really cares about spending 10 billion here or 20 billion there? The cost of the nations debt is closing in on 1 trillion dollars a year. 10 or 20 billion being spent is pretty much chump change. Does anyone in DC really care about spending anymore counselor?? We spend 800 billion a year on defense and the Navy decommissions ships that are 10 years old because they are not mission capable. Is anyone ever held accountable for this nonsense?? What about all the grifting done to steal taxpayer money incurred during COVID?? I'm still waiting for the congressional committee to be established to hold someone in government accountable for that theft of taxpayer dollars. Silly me, could you possibly imagine Congress being allowed to investigate their own stupidity?Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 7:49 am The CBO says the GOP House's Israel aid bill is not offset at all. It will, instead, add $12.5B to the deficit in the next decade. Cuts to IRS will decrease revenue by $26.7B. They are clowns.
In simple terms, they are proposing to cut funding for the IRS. Not spend, cut. However, that "cut" will result in adding $12.5B to the deficit rather than reducing it by the amount of the cut (which was to supposedly offset emergency support for Israel).
Focus on just this proposal for a moment. And if you want, ruminate on who the MAGA House is trying to benefit with this "cut". People like you? Or billionaires?
Then go ahead and rant about Congress' multiple other perfidies.
They've analyzed how many fewer people the IRS would have to do the audits, estimated the lost revenue on that basis. Not terribly complicated, quite predictable. Could they be off by a 10%? Sure, either direction.
But what is not measured is that this will also further degrade services for the little guy who simply has some sort of question on what line to fill something in, challenge a tax calculation, etc. Basic customer service, which the IRS is already notoriously grossly understaffed to address as it is. Can't spend on the technology upgrades to make service easier, more seamless, and transparent...and secure. Insufficient productivity enhancement.
Not saying always private sector but the cost of externalities created has to be honestly and seriously evaluated as well. I don’t trust that’s being done appropriately here.
And sure, some audits undoubtedly produce a 'dry well', they don't uncover issues. and that's a pain...but made worse if there isn't enough manpower to actually meet with you and discuss the issues that triggered the audit in the first place.
The IRS is grossly understaffed with the kinds of personnel needed to handle sophisticated tax return audits. The personnel aren't cheap and they don't grow on trees, but if you're badly outgunned by rich tax cheats, you're gonna fail to get to them at all. Easier to go after less sophisticated errors (and cheats) with only the occasional high profile case brought to try to discourage everybody else.
This, IMO, is why Trump was able to get away with tax cheating for multiple decades (see NYT detailed reporting) now beyond the statute of limitations. His returns were massive, purposely complicated to be intimidating, with huge effort on tax avoidance whether legal or illegal.
Trump says "everyone does it". And, he's probably right that many super rich people make it very hard for the IRS to tell what they should really be paying...some by the book legally, some taking advantage and going beyond. And some, like Trump, way beyond.
But gotta audit them, a huge effort, to find out who is who...and not be outgunned in sheer manpower.
The good news is that audits of the super rich pay huge dividends.
For someone who's made an honest mistake (or they have!) and just wants to figure out how to correct it, it should be way, way easier!
The technology is way, way behind, and staffing is insufficient relative to huge increase in volume over the decades. Better tech would improve matters, but man I hate automated phone systems!!