The Nation's Financial Condition

[SCLaxAttack]

An NFL Player's weekly paycheck: https://x.com/darrenrovell/status/17203 ... 96743?s=20

He should be po'd that Trump only paid around $700. I'm sure there are other like Trump, else why would the R reps want to tie Israeli funding to IRS defunding?

[OCanada]

Going beyond the data points and looking at the current situation the GOP has done significant damage to the financial and economic infrastructures whose synergies have produced the greatest economy in the history of the world but has bern chipped away by the GOP for 40 years

There’s a growing theory we had an opportunity after world war 2 for about 30yrs where the rest of the world was closed for business. All the other narratives beyond that and the demographic story may alone explain a large component of American exceptionalism (economically). Obviously having the strongest property rights in the world but I’m not sure fighting last weeks battles and managing a path forward on any narratives makes much sense just just focusing forward.

That’s not a free pass for anyone on either side but don’t know that the “decline” had much to do with either party anymore as much as all of us collectively.

I believe more attention nerds go be focused on the infrastructure necessary to support and advance out economic and political systems as well as the synergy that needs to be present. It is not just property laws or patents it is the legal system in its entirety that needs to meet certain expectations in order to sustain.

[Farfromgeneva]

Going beyond the data points and looking at the current situation the GOP has done significant damage to the financial and economic infrastructures whose synergies have produced the greatest economy in the history of the world but has bern chipped away by the GOP for 40 years

There’s a growing theory we had an opportunity after world war 2 for about 30yrs where the rest of the world was closed for business. All the other narratives beyond that and the demographic story may alone explain a large component of American exceptionalism (economically). Obviously having the strongest property rights in the world but I’m not sure fighting last weeks battles and managing a path forward on any narratives makes much sense just just focusing forward.

That’s not a free pass for anyone on either side but don’t know that the “decline” had much to do with either party anymore as much as all of us collectively.

I believe more attention nerds go be focused on the infrastructure necessary to support and advance out economic and political systems as well as the synergy that needs to be present. It is not just property laws or patents it is the legal system in its entirety that needs to meet certain expectations in order to sustain.

Sure the electricity grid, water, transport and some other areas are in need. My hometown was focus of this in a recent WSJ piece (https://www.wsj.com/business/logistics/ ... m-41f287ba). But how is that investment directed, by whom, what incentive structures we’d to be out in place or modified from today and a number of other things need to be addressed and don’t see that calculus just “let’s do s**t so I can keep my seat in the re-election” and weak form supporting evidence around it.

If the synergy isn’t there is that the right time for investment? I don’t know the answer and don’t believe we’ve let our infrastructure decay too much and didn’t maintain/upgrade but I also know that timing of investment matters and many folks would just reply “the investment is needed” but it’s never that simple.

[youthathletics]

$2/sq.ft? : https://x.com/triplenetinvest/status/17 ... a82I2GssRg

[Farfromgeneva]

$2/sq.ft? : https://x.com/triplenetinvest/status/17 ... a82I2GssRg

It’s not shocking when it cleared a year easier at $4mm and it’s a “starting bid” of $2.5MM. Basically it’s clearly an obsolete building in a tertiary market (St Louis doesn’t qualify as secondary these days). Land value minus demo and carrying costs.

Single tenant bldgs like that can be expensive to convert to multi tenant usage depending on elevators, windows, floor plates, middle stairwells between floors etc. ATT properties they’ve blown out of in Dallas, Atlanta and N NJ have all had similar value loss situations.

[NattyBohChamps04]

An NFL Player's weekly paycheck: https://x.com/darrenrovell/status/17203 ... 96743?s=20

Yeah he's getting most of that back. I make more and pay much less.

Wonder who filled out his withholdings? I mean he could have taken home 100% pre-tax if he wanted to pay later.

If we were living in MAGA 1950's land, he would have had much more taken and wouldn't get it back. Plus he would be not allowed to go most anywhere or do many things for some strange reason.

[Farfromgeneva]

An NFL Player's weekly paycheck: https://x.com/darrenrovell/status/17203 ... 96743?s=20

Yeah he's getting most of that back. I make more and pay much less.

Wonder who filled out his withholdings? I mean he could have taken home 100% pre-tax if he wanted to pay later.

If we were living in MAGA 1950's land, he would have had much more taken and wouldn't get it back. Plus he would be not allowed to go most anywhere or do many things for some strange reason.

That thing is somehow in LinkedIn now too which has become a joke but allows me to mess with really stupid CRE folks and new bank experts.

But I presumed that an accountant pulled this parochial move to keep his cash flow low Month to Month. My assumption was any decent person could stuff expenditures and write offs and get to a 5-20% effective rate.

[Farfromgeneva]

Funny story I helped these brothers referenced in this piece get a bank around 2019. They were clearly politically connected up in Mich one brother was appointed to a DOT board by his buddy gov etc.

Feds unveil corruption charges in Mich. marijuana probe involving Rick Johnson

April 8, 2023 by News
Feds unveil corruption charges in Mich. marijuana probe involving Rick Johnson

Former House Speaker Rick Johnson and three others were charged in a bribery scandal Thursday following a years-long investigation into Michigan’s marijuana licensing operations, according to prosecutors who unveiled the largest public corruption scandal in the state’s capital in 30 years.

Johnson, 70, a Republican from LeRoy, pocketed more than $100,000 from multiple people who were pursuing bribes in exchange for licenses to launch marijuana facilities at the dawn of Michigan’s cannabis industry, federal officials said. The bribes included free private jet flights from Oakland County businessman John Dawood Dalaly, Grand Rapids U.S. Attorney Mark Totten said Thursday.

At a press conference in downtown Lansing with the Capitol building in the background, Totten emphasized public corruption was a “poison” to democracy and noted the marijuana industry has been compared to a “modern-day gold rush.” He also said the investigation was ongoing.

Appointed by then-Gov. Rick Snyder, Johnson was the chairman of the state’s medical marijuana licensing board from May 2017 through April 2019. The investigation into his actions began in December 2017, Totten said.

“Certainly, what I have described today should give anybody reason to question the process and what effect all of these payments of money had on the chair of the board who was essentially serving as one of the key gatekeepers at the beginning of this fledgling industry,” Totten said.

Johnson was charged with accepting bribes, including approximately $68,000 from Dalaly. Dalaly, 70, of West Bloomfield, was charged with paying bribes to Johnson.

Also charged Thursday are two lobbyists who were charged with conspiracy to commit bribery:

∎ Brian Pierce, 45, of Midland

∎ Vincent Brown, 32, of Royal Oak

All four have reached plea agreements with the government and are cooperating with the FBI and U.S. Attorney’s Office, Totten said.

“Johnson accepted these bribes corruptly … with the understanding that these bribes were offered to influence him or reward him for actions he might take,” Totten told reporters.

Johnson provided ‘non-public info’
Brown and Pierce, who previously worked as staffers in the state Legislature, were part of two lobbying businesses, Philip Alan Brown Consulting and Michigan Growers Consultants, which were based out of the same downtown Lansing office building that Johnson’s old firm, Dodak Johnson, operated out of.

Brown and Pierce made payments to Johnson “to influence and reward him for providing assistance” with their clients’ applications for medical marijuana licenses, according to a court filing by the U.S. Attorney’s Office on Thursday.

From June 8, 2017, to Feb. 15, 2018, Brown and Pierce transferred a total of $19,000 from their lobbying firms to business entities connected to Johnson, according to the court filing. And Johnson provided those who gave him bribes with “valuable non-public information” about anticipated rules and the licensing board’s operations, according to court documents.

While Dalaly’s company was seeking a license from Johnson’s board, Dalaly paid for Johnson’s travel on two private chartered flights from Michigan to Canada on a Learjet 35 and King Air 200 aircraft, according to Dalaly’s plea agreement.

Meanwhile, state law banned members of the licensing board from having outside communications with applicants or their representatives. On required lobbying disclosures with the state, the firms of Pierce and Brown reported having only two clients: a nonprofit trade association called Michigan Responsibility Council and New York-based Sunshine Health Freedom Foundation.

Pierce’s lawyer, Ben Gonek, declined comment. Brown’s lawyer, David Griem, could not be reached Thursday for an immediate comment.

Brian Hanna, executive director of the Michigan Cannabis Regulatory Agency, said state regulators are reviewing the information that has been made available and “will begin investigations as warranted.”

“Marijuana industry stakeholders in Michigan can be assured that if we find that any businesses broke the law or rules, disciplinary action will be pursued,” Hanna said.

Ongoing investigation
At Thursday’s press conference, Totten was joined by James Tarasca, special agent in charge of the FBI in Michigan, who helped in the investigation.

Totten declined to say whether others would be charged in the ongoing investigation.

“There’s really not much I can say at this point except that the people I have named today as defendants are cooperating,” Totten said.

The investigation has multiple targets who have not been charged with wrongdoing at this point.

“This is finally going to send a message that this is unacceptable conduct,” said Matthew Schneider, the former U.S. Attorney in Detroit who was briefed on the investigation before leaving office in 2021 and joining the Honigman law firm.

“This is just the start,” Schneider added. “It is the first bullet out of the gun and the U.S. Attorney’s Office has a very large magazine in its pistol.”

Johnson has agreed to plead guilty to accepting a bribe, according to his agreement with the U.S. Attorney’s Office. The maximum potential penalty for the crime is 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine, according to the document.

The former House speaker has also agreed to forfeit $110,200, which represents the proceeds he received from the conduct that the brought the charge, according to the plea deal.

Key figures targeted
The criminal cases are expected to become the largest federal corruption case in Michigan’s capital in a generation. The Detroit News’ reporting about the investigation has raised new questions about financial pressures on Lansing, the state’s ethics policies while the GOP controlled the Legislature and whether politicians, businessmen and lobbyists rigged Michigan’s burgeoning marijuana industry.

The News exclusively revealed the investigation in February, reporting that FBI agents were scrutinizing Johnson’s nearly two-year tenure as chairman of the state board that determined which businesses could sell and grow medical marijuana.

The News later reported that Pierce, 45, of Midland, was under investigation and that FBI agents had searched his home in August 2020 as part of a broader series of raids targeting people central to the probe.

Dalaly’s website portrays him as a prolific Michigan businessman who developed and marketed international health care services.

Prosecutors said he had two marijuana-related businesses, including one that sought state licenses to operate provisioning centers and one firm that explored creating a digital currency platform for marijuana transactions.

In a separate instance, Johnson voted in support of a marijuana business during his tenure leading the board and then accepted a $75,000 loan from an investor with a stake in the deal, a Detroit News investigation revealed.

Court records from a civil lawsuit pointed to a tangled, troubled deal between the Republican farmer from LeRoy who led the Medical Marihuana Licensing Board for two years and Bloomfield Hills-based real estate investment company MSY Capital Partners.

The loan violated the spirit of a state law aimed at preventing corruption, according to the legislator who sponsored the policy, and raised new concerns about secret financial arrangements at the dawn of Michigan’s marijuana industry, which generated more than $2 billion in sales in 2022.

On April 25, 2019 — the date of the final meeting of the medical marijuana board before it was disbanded — Johnson and two other panel members voted to pre-qualify JAR Capital LLC for a pot license. One of the investors in JAR Capital was Metro Detroit lawyer Gregory Yatooma.

Then, on June 24, 2019, MSY Capital Partners, a firm run by members of the Yatooma family, loaned Johnson $75,000, according to court records and internal documents provided by MSY. Those documents show Johnson personally emailed Gregory Yatooma on June 18, 2019, seeking a $75,000 loan to “pay off” another short-term loan from a “business associate” and to gain “funds for finishing up spring 2019 planting.”

A 2016 law creating the marijuana licensing board prohibited board members from entering into a contract with an applicant, including those with a 10% ownership interest in an applicant or those who manage the applicant, for four years after their service on the board. While Gregory Yatooma’s name was listed in the JAR Capital application, Gregory Yatooma spokesman Mort Meisner said he was a minority investor of less than 10% ownership in the marijuana company.

Meisner, speaking on behalf of brothers Christopher and Gregory Yatooma, two members of MSY Capital Partners, said in a statement the $75,000 loan had nothing to do with Johnson’s role on the licensing board. MSY also provided emails that showed attempts to collect on the loan throughout most of 2020 before Johnson eventually repaid them. The loan had a 60-day term with varying interest rates depending on the status of repayment.

“MSY regrets providing the loan, as they did not know the issues surrounding Mr. Johnson, and unequivocally the loan was not made for any actions during Mr. Johnson’s time on the board,” Meisner said, referencing what he called “Johnson’s consistent record of bad behavior.”

[Farfromgeneva]

$400-$500k makes more sense than the $200-$250k many have proposed in the past. I know a hundred morons who make $200k in Atlanta these days with their spouses and combined income of $250-$350k and given COL these days they aren’t saving a ton. Housing runs $3-$5k/mo for a family of four whether renting or owning here now. And that’s not even for the best school districts (1,400sq ft homes in my hood go for $750k-$800k and I know that’s still cheaper than NYC/DC, Chi, Boston, SF, LA and apparently Sam Diego from research where the overall COL is 130% of Atlanta but housing is 2x making certain negotiations much harder for me). HHI under $300k in top 25 metros isn’t killing it. I get that in CNY, Hagerstown MD/York PA, Wake Forest NC type and smaller areas that’s living large (though tax rates on homes in shrinking areas are awful-in Broome Co NY the tax millage rate works out to like 4.5% of assessed value and assessed values are on top of market unlike most growth areas)

https://www.axios.com/2023/11/08/us-nat ... ilize-cost

What it would cost to stabilize the soaring national debt

Neil Irwin
Congressional Budget Office; Chart: Axios Visuals

It would take spending cuts or tax increases equivalent to $2,400 per American per year to stabilize the national debt, according to a new book that shows the U.S. government's fiscal situation is more precarious than lawmakers of either party acknowledge.

Why it matters: The numbers amount to an alarm bell about America's fiscal vulnerability at a time when there is bipartisan resistance to steps that might change the course in a major way.

Driving the news: That is spelled out in "Building a More Resilient US Economy," out Wednesday from the Aspen Economic Strategy Group, a group of former policymakers, top executives, and others led by former Treasury secretaries Hank Paulson and Tim Geithner.

"Policymakers will need to make difficult spending and tax policy decisions to bring the US fiscal situation into better balance and to maintain our ability to invest in key priorities like national security, health care, and addressing climate change," write Paulson and Geithner.
By the numbers: Harvard economist Karen Dynan works through the arithmetic and shows that the bulk of the increase in the structural deficit has come from higher spending on Social Security and Medicare benefits as the Baby Boom generation retires.

In order to reduce deficits to the point where the public debt levels off as a share of the economy — a more plausible goal than balancing the budget outright — Congress would have to enact some mix of spending cuts and tax increases equivalent to 2.8% of GDP, or nearly $800 billion per year.
Yes, but: There is no political momentum for deficit reduction at that scale.

Republicans are seeking to extend Trump-era tax cuts scheduled to expire next year and loudly rejected President Biden's claim in his State of the Union speech that they would seek to cut retirement programs. They've vowed to cut the IRS budget, which experts believe would widen the deficit by lowering tax collections.
The Biden administration has ruled out tax increases on households making under $400,000. His budget would reduce the deficit by an average of $250 billion per year.
What they're saying: "The challenge posed by high and rising federal debt is significant but manageable as a matter of economics," writes Dynan, an Obama-era Treasury official. "The big problem is political."

She adds that "voters are dependent on their elected leaders to communicate the facts and tradeoffs the country faces, and our elected leaders have not done this well."
Disclosure: The author of this piece is a member of the Aspen Economic Strategy Group, attending its meetings in his role as a reporter. He was not involved in creating the policy volume.

[Seacoaster(1)]

The CBO says the GOP House's Israel aid bill is not offset at all. It will, instead, add $12.5B to the deficit in the next decade. Cuts to IRS will decrease revenue by $26.7B. They are clowns.

[Farfromgeneva]

The P&C market and general inflation is slowly impacting all facets of life. I’m in a rich “hippy” (incongruous I know) neighborhood and the adjacent one is restructuring the community pool to a membership club, pulling forward revenue as a one time fee to cover much higher opex (plus some deferred maintenance). Families are livid and it is impacting the 20 blocks around me. Honestly for what houses cost around us going from $3,500 prior fee to $10k one time shouldn’t be that big of an issue their fighting on “principle” which they don’t articulate very well but looking through the local issue I see this cost of living trickling down into secondary and tertiary impacts which now one forecast at all apparently.

https://lakeclairepool.com/wp-content/u ... m-Club.pdf

https://lakeclairepool.com/equity-membe ... a81ca5407d

[cradleandshoot]

The CBO says the GOP House's Israel aid bill is not offset at all. It will, instead, add $12.5B to the deficit in the next decade. Cuts to IRS will decrease revenue by $26.7B. They are clowns.

Who really cares about spending 10 billion here or 20 billion there? The cost of the nations debt is closing in on 1 trillion dollars a year. 10 or 20 billion being spent is pretty much chump change. Does anyone in DC really care about spending anymore counselor?? We spend 800 billion a year on defense and the Navy decommissions ships that are 10 years old because they are not mission capable. Is anyone ever held accountable for this nonsense?? What about all the grifting done to steal taxpayer money incurred during COVID?? I'm still waiting for the congressional committee to be established to hold someone in government accountable for that theft of taxpayer dollars. Silly me, could you possibly imagine Congress being allowed to investigate their own stupidity?

[MDlaxfan76]

The CBO says the GOP House's Israel aid bill is not offset at all. It will, instead, add $12.5B to the deficit in the next decade. Cuts to IRS will decrease revenue by $26.7B. They are clowns.

Who really cares about spending 10 billion here or 20 billion there? The cost of the nations debt is closing in on 1 trillion dollars a year. 10 or 20 billion being spent is pretty much chump change. Does anyone in DC really care about spending anymore counselor?? We spend 800 billion a year on defense and the Navy decommissions ships that are 10 years old because they are not mission capable. Is anyone ever held accountable for this nonsense?? What about all the grifting done to steal taxpayer money incurred during COVID?? I'm still waiting for the congressional committee to be established to hold someone in government accountable for that theft of taxpayer dollars. Silly me, could you possibly imagine Congress being allowed to investigate their own stupidity?

cradle, take a moment and actually think through what the MAGA House is proposing and tell us what you think of that proposal.

In simple terms, they are proposing to cut funding for the IRS. Not spend, cut. However, that "cut" will result in adding $12.5B to the deficit rather than reducing it by the amount of the cut (which was to supposedly offset emergency support for Israel).

Focus on just this proposal for a moment. And if you want, ruminate on who the MAGA House is trying to benefit with this "cut". People like you? Or billionaires?

Then go ahead and rant about Congress' multiple other perfidies.

[youthathletics]

The CBO says the GOP House's Israel aid bill is not offset at all. It will, instead, add $12.5B to the deficit in the next decade. Cuts to IRS will decrease revenue by $26.7B. They are clowns.

Who really cares about spending 10 billion here or 20 billion there? The cost of the nations debt is closing in on 1 trillion dollars a year. 10 or 20 billion being spent is pretty much chump change. Does anyone in DC really care about spending anymore counselor?? We spend 800 billion a year on defense and the Navy decommissions ships that are 10 years old because they are not mission capable. Is anyone ever held accountable for this nonsense?? What about all the grifting done to steal taxpayer money incurred during COVID?? I'm still waiting for the congressional committee to be established to hold someone in government accountable for that theft of taxpayer dollars. Silly me, could you possibly imagine Congress being allowed to investigate their own stupidity?

cradle, take a moment and actually think through what the MAGA House is proposing and tell us what you think of that proposal.

In simple terms, they are proposing to cut funding for the IRS. Not spend, cut. However, that "cut" will result in adding $12.5B to the deficit rather than reducing it by the amount of the cut (which was to supposedly offset emergency support for Israel).

Focus on just this proposal for a moment. And if you want, ruminate on who the MAGA House is trying to benefit with this "cut". People like you? Or billionaires?

Then go ahead and rant about Congress' multiple other perfidies.

I'd love to know how they came up with the 26billion over a decade number.....another failed model? Or a simple math division of IRS employees vs tax revenue? Or more hypotheticals like we will not be able to audit as freely as we want? I have a novel idea....how about modify your tax code so it is not so damned confusing, which would grossly simply tax revenue and auditing.

I'm not discounting they are correct, just seems like same side arguing and justifying more cash in their coffers. https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/02/politics ... 10%20years.

[MDlaxfan76]

The CBO says the GOP House's Israel aid bill is not offset at all. It will, instead, add $12.5B to the deficit in the next decade. Cuts to IRS will decrease revenue by $26.7B. They are clowns.

Who really cares about spending 10 billion here or 20 billion there? The cost of the nations debt is closing in on 1 trillion dollars a year. 10 or 20 billion being spent is pretty much chump change. Does anyone in DC really care about spending anymore counselor?? We spend 800 billion a year on defense and the Navy decommissions ships that are 10 years old because they are not mission capable. Is anyone ever held accountable for this nonsense?? What about all the grifting done to steal taxpayer money incurred during COVID?? I'm still waiting for the congressional committee to be established to hold someone in government accountable for that theft of taxpayer dollars. Silly me, could you possibly imagine Congress being allowed to investigate their own stupidity?

cradle, take a moment and actually think through what the MAGA House is proposing and tell us what you think of that proposal.

In simple terms, they are proposing to cut funding for the IRS. Not spend, cut. However, that "cut" will result in adding $12.5B to the deficit rather than reducing it by the amount of the cut (which was to supposedly offset emergency support for Israel).

Focus on just this proposal for a moment. And if you want, ruminate on who the MAGA House is trying to benefit with this "cut". People like you? Or billionaires?

Then go ahead and rant about Congress' multiple other perfidies.

I'd love to know how they came up with the 26billion over a decade number.....another failed model? Or a simple math division of IRS employees vs tax revenue? I'm not discounting they are correct, just seems like same side arguing and justifying more cash in their coffers. https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/02/politics ... 10%20years.

keeping it real simple, if you do fewer audits of tax cheats you don't collect those revenues and you encourage more people to cheat without fear of being caught.

They've analyzed how many fewer people the IRS would have to do the audits, estimated the lost revenue on that basis. Not terribly complicated, quite predictable. Could they be off by a 10%? Sure, either direction.

But what is not measured is that this will also further degrade services for the little guy who simply has some sort of question on what line to fill something in, challenge a tax calculation, etc. Basic customer service, which the IRS is already notoriously grossly understaffed to address as it is. Can't spend on the technology upgrades to make service easier, more seamless, and transparent...and secure. Insufficient productivity enhancement.

[cradleandshoot]

The CBO says the GOP House's Israel aid bill is not offset at all. It will, instead, add $12.5B to the deficit in the next decade. Cuts to IRS will decrease revenue by $26.7B. They are clowns.

Who really cares about spending 10 billion here or 20 billion there? The cost of the nations debt is closing in on 1 trillion dollars a year. 10 or 20 billion being spent is pretty much chump change. Does anyone in DC really care about spending anymore counselor?? We spend 800 billion a year on defense and the Navy decommissions ships that are 10 years old because they are not mission capable. Is anyone ever held accountable for this nonsense?? What about all the grifting done to steal taxpayer money incurred during COVID?? I'm still waiting for the congressional committee to be established to hold someone in government accountable for that theft of taxpayer dollars. Silly me, could you possibly imagine Congress being allowed to investigate their own stupidity?

cradle, take a moment and actually think through what the MAGA House is proposing and tell us what you think of that proposal.

In simple terms, they are proposing to cut funding for the IRS. Not spend, cut. However, that "cut" will result in adding $12.5B to the deficit rather than reducing it by the amount of the cut (which was to supposedly offset emergency support for Israel).

Focus on just this proposal for a moment. And if you want, ruminate on who the MAGA House is trying to benefit with this "cut". People like you? Or billionaires?

Then go ahead and rant about Congress' multiple other perfidies.

If this country had an honest and fair flat tax system cutting the IRS funding wouldn't matter diddly. If memory serves me correct didn't the IRS just hire 80,000 plus new agents?? Maybe the IRS needs to find out like every other big organization how to do more with less? I know one thing about the IRS that will never change, if you need to talk to a human being on the phone you will wait for hours. FTR you don't have any problem with taxpayers having to pony up a trillion dollars just to pay the interest on the debt? I thought that was the kind of issue that would drive a conservative republican like yourself mad as hell? Perhaps someone in DC should be ranting about it?

[Farfromgeneva]

The CBO says the GOP House's Israel aid bill is not offset at all. It will, instead, add $12.5B to the deficit in the next decade. Cuts to IRS will decrease revenue by $26.7B. They are clowns.

Who really cares about spending 10 billion here or 20 billion there? The cost of the nations debt is closing in on 1 trillion dollars a year. 10 or 20 billion being spent is pretty much chump change. Does anyone in DC really care about spending anymore counselor?? We spend 800 billion a year on defense and the Navy decommissions ships that are 10 years old because they are not mission capable. Is anyone ever held accountable for this nonsense?? What about all the grifting done to steal taxpayer money incurred during COVID?? I'm still waiting for the congressional committee to be established to hold someone in government accountable for that theft of taxpayer dollars. Silly me, could you possibly imagine Congress being allowed to investigate their own stupidity?

cradle, take a moment and actually think through what the MAGA House is proposing and tell us what you think of that proposal.

In simple terms, they are proposing to cut funding for the IRS. Not spend, cut. However, that "cut" will result in adding $12.5B to the deficit rather than reducing it by the amount of the cut (which was to supposedly offset emergency support for Israel).

Focus on just this proposal for a moment. And if you want, ruminate on who the MAGA House is trying to benefit with this "cut". People like you? Or billionaires?

Then go ahead and rant about Congress' multiple other perfidies.

I'd love to know how they came up with the 26billion over a decade number.....another failed model? Or a simple math division of IRS employees vs tax revenue? I'm not discounting they are correct, just seems like same side arguing and justifying more cash in their coffers. https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/02/politics ... 10%20years.

keeping it real simple, if you do fewer audits of tax cheats you don't collect those revenues and you encourage more people to cheat without fear of being caught.

They've analyzed how many fewer people the IRS would have to do the audits, estimated the lost revenue on that basis. Not terribly complicated, quite predictable. Could they be off by a 10%? Sure, either direction.

But what is not measured is that this will also further degrade services for the little guy who simply has some sort of question on what line to fill something in, challenge a tax calculation, etc. Basic customer service, which the IRS is already notoriously grossly understaffed to address as it is. Can't spend on the technology upgrades to make service easier, more seamless, and transparent...and secure. Insufficient productivity enhancement.

But there is a cost to audits and actions that are incorrect or superfluous. Imagine 50 empowered Brooklyn’s. The cost of the friction and all the additional dollars spent on attorneys and accountants to manage that issue is potentially significant so that has to be accounted for in the model and most likely it’s close to neutral when you factor the externalities of increase enforcement. Then it becomes a debate on who will generated a higher velocity of those dollars, Govt or the private sector.

Not saying always private sector but the cost of externalities created has to be honestly and seriously evaluated as well. I don’t trust that’s being done appropriately here.

[Farfromgeneva]

The CBO says the GOP House's Israel aid bill is not offset at all. It will, instead, add $12.5B to the deficit in the next decade. Cuts to IRS will decrease revenue by $26.7B. They are clowns.

Who really cares about spending 10 billion here or 20 billion there? The cost of the nations debt is closing in on 1 trillion dollars a year. 10 or 20 billion being spent is pretty much chump change. Does anyone in DC really care about spending anymore counselor?? We spend 800 billion a year on defense and the Navy decommissions ships that are 10 years old because they are not mission capable. Is anyone ever held accountable for this nonsense?? What about all the grifting done to steal taxpayer money incurred during COVID?? I'm still waiting for the congressional committee to be established to hold someone in government accountable for that theft of taxpayer dollars. Silly me, could you possibly imagine Congress being allowed to investigate their own stupidity?

cradle, take a moment and actually think through what the MAGA House is proposing and tell us what you think of that proposal.

In simple terms, they are proposing to cut funding for the IRS. Not spend, cut. However, that "cut" will result in adding $12.5B to the deficit rather than reducing it by the amount of the cut (which was to supposedly offset emergency support for Israel).

Focus on just this proposal for a moment. And if you want, ruminate on who the MAGA House is trying to benefit with this "cut". People like you? Or billionaires?

Then go ahead and rant about Congress' multiple other perfidies.

If this country had an honest and fair flat tax system cutting the IRS funding wouldn't matter diddly. If memory serves me correct didn't the IRS just hire 80,000 plus new agents?? Maybe the IRS needs to find out like every other big organization how to do more with less? I know one thing about the IRS that will never change, if you need to talk to a human being on the phone you will wait for hours. FTR you don't have any problem with taxpayers having to pony up a trillion dollars just to pay the interest on the debt? I thought that was the kind of issue that would drive a conservative republican like yourself mad as hell? Perhaps someone in DC should be ranting about it?

You would wrong to think that conservatives oppose leverage.

[MDlaxfan76]

The CBO says the GOP House's Israel aid bill is not offset at all. It will, instead, add $12.5B to the deficit in the next decade. Cuts to IRS will decrease revenue by $26.7B. They are clowns.

Who really cares about spending 10 billion here or 20 billion there? The cost of the nations debt is closing in on 1 trillion dollars a year. 10 or 20 billion being spent is pretty much chump change. Does anyone in DC really care about spending anymore counselor?? We spend 800 billion a year on defense and the Navy decommissions ships that are 10 years old because they are not mission capable. Is anyone ever held accountable for this nonsense?? What about all the grifting done to steal taxpayer money incurred during COVID?? I'm still waiting for the congressional committee to be established to hold someone in government accountable for that theft of taxpayer dollars. Silly me, could you possibly imagine Congress being allowed to investigate their own stupidity?

cradle, take a moment and actually think through what the MAGA House is proposing and tell us what you think of that proposal.

In simple terms, they are proposing to cut funding for the IRS. Not spend, cut. However, that "cut" will result in adding $12.5B to the deficit rather than reducing it by the amount of the cut (which was to supposedly offset emergency support for Israel).

Focus on just this proposal for a moment. And if you want, ruminate on who the MAGA House is trying to benefit with this "cut". People like you? Or billionaires?

Then go ahead and rant about Congress' multiple other perfidies.

I'd love to know how they came up with the 26billion over a decade number.....another failed model? Or a simple math division of IRS employees vs tax revenue? I'm not discounting they are correct, just seems like same side arguing and justifying more cash in their coffers. https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/02/politics ... 10%20years.

keeping it real simple, if you do fewer audits of tax cheats you don't collect those revenues and you encourage more people to cheat without fear of being caught.

They've analyzed how many fewer people the IRS would have to do the audits, estimated the lost revenue on that basis. Not terribly complicated, quite predictable. Could they be off by a 10%? Sure, either direction.

But what is not measured is that this will also further degrade services for the little guy who simply has some sort of question on what line to fill something in, challenge a tax calculation, etc. Basic customer service, which the IRS is already notoriously grossly understaffed to address as it is. Can't spend on the technology upgrades to make service easier, more seamless, and transparent...and secure. Insufficient productivity enhancement.

But there is a cost to audits and actions that are incorrect or superfluous. Imagine 50 empowered Brooklyn’s. The cost of the friction and all the additional dollars spent on attorneys and accountants to manage that issue is potentially significant so that has to be accounted for in the model and most likely it’s close to neutral when you factor the externalities of increase enforcement. Then it becomes a debate on who will generated a higher velocity of those dollars, Govt or the private sector.

Not saying always private sector but the cost of externalities created has to be honestly and seriously evaluated as well. I don’t trust that’s being done appropriately here.

yes, without reservation, I wouldn't want a bunch of "Brooklyns" in charge!

And sure, some audits undoubtedly produce a 'dry well', they don't uncover issues. and that's a pain...but made worse if there isn't enough manpower to actually meet with you and discuss the issues that triggered the audit in the first place.

The IRS is grossly understaffed with the kinds of personnel needed to handle sophisticated tax return audits. The personnel aren't cheap and they don't grow on trees, but if you're badly outgunned by rich tax cheats, you're gonna fail to get to them at all. Easier to go after less sophisticated errors (and cheats) with only the occasional high profile case brought to try to discourage everybody else.

This, IMO, is why Trump was able to get away with tax cheating for multiple decades (see NYT detailed reporting) now beyond the statute of limitations. His returns were massive, purposely complicated to be intimidating, with huge effort on tax avoidance whether legal or illegal.

Trump says "everyone does it". And, he's probably right that many super rich people make it very hard for the IRS to tell what they should really be paying...some by the book legally, some taking advantage and going beyond. And some, like Trump, way beyond.

But gotta audit them, a huge effort, to find out who is who...and not be outgunned in sheer manpower.

The good news is that audits of the super rich pay huge dividends.

[youthathletics]

The CBO says the GOP House's Israel aid bill is not offset at all. It will, instead, add $12.5B to the deficit in the next decade. Cuts to IRS will decrease revenue by $26.7B. They are clowns.

Who really cares about spending 10 billion here or 20 billion there? The cost of the nations debt is closing in on 1 trillion dollars a year. 10 or 20 billion being spent is pretty much chump change. Does anyone in DC really care about spending anymore counselor?? We spend 800 billion a year on defense and the Navy decommissions ships that are 10 years old because they are not mission capable. Is anyone ever held accountable for this nonsense?? What about all the grifting done to steal taxpayer money incurred during COVID?? I'm still waiting for the congressional committee to be established to hold someone in government accountable for that theft of taxpayer dollars. Silly me, could you possibly imagine Congress being allowed to investigate their own stupidity?

cradle, take a moment and actually think through what the MAGA House is proposing and tell us what you think of that proposal.

In simple terms, they are proposing to cut funding for the IRS. Not spend, cut. However, that "cut" will result in adding $12.5B to the deficit rather than reducing it by the amount of the cut (which was to supposedly offset emergency support for Israel).

Focus on just this proposal for a moment. And if you want, ruminate on who the MAGA House is trying to benefit with this "cut". People like you? Or billionaires?

Then go ahead and rant about Congress' multiple other perfidies.

I'd love to know how they came up with the 26billion over a decade number.....another failed model? Or a simple math division of IRS employees vs tax revenue? I'm not discounting they are correct, just seems like same side arguing and justifying more cash in their coffers. https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/02/politics ... 10%20years.

keeping it real simple, if you do fewer audits of tax cheats you don't collect those revenues and you encourage more people to cheat without fear of being caught.

They've analyzed how many fewer people the IRS would have to do the audits, estimated the lost revenue on that basis. Not terribly complicated, quite predictable. Could they be off by a 10%? Sure, either direction.

But what is not measured is that this will also further degrade services for the little guy who simply has some sort of question on what line to fill something in, challenge a tax calculation, etc. Basic customer service, which the IRS is already notoriously grossly understaffed to address as it is. Can't spend on the technology upgrades to make service easier, more seamless, and transparent...and secure. Insufficient productivity enhancement.

But there is a cost to audits and actions that are incorrect or superfluous. Imagine 50 empowered Brooklyn’s. The cost of the friction and all the additional dollars spent on attorneys and accountants to manage that issue is potentially significant so that has to be accounted for in the model and most likely it’s close to neutral when you factor the externalities of increase enforcement. Then it becomes a debate on who will generated a higher velocity of those dollars, Govt or the private sector.

Not saying always private sector but the cost of externalities created has to be honestly and seriously evaluated as well. I don’t trust that’s being done appropriately here.

yes, without reservation, I wouldn't want a bunch of "Brooklyns" in charge!

And sure, some audits undoubtedly produce a 'dry well', they don't uncover issues. and that's a pain...but made worse if there isn't enough manpower to actually meet with you and discuss the issues that triggered the audit in the first place.

The IRS is grossly understaffed with the kinds of personnel needed to handle sophisticated tax return audits. The personnel aren't cheap and they don't grow on trees, but if you're badly outgunned by rich tax cheats, you're gonna fail to get to them at all. Easier to go after less sophisticated errors (and cheats) with only the occasional high profile case brought to try to discourage everybody else.

This, IMO, is why Trump was able to get away with tax cheating for multiple decades (see NYT detailed reporting) now beyond the statute of limitations. His returns were massive, purposely complicated to be intimidating, with huge effort on tax avoidance whether legal or illegal.

Trump says "everyone does it". And, he's probably right that many super rich people make it very hard for the IRS to tell what they should really be paying...some by the book legally, some taking advantage and going beyond. And some, like Trump, way beyond.

But gotta audit them, a huge effort, to find out who is who...and not be outgunned in sheer manpower.

The good news is that audits of the super rich pay huge dividends.

I jsut went through a debacle with IRS two years ago. They don't even answer the phone. I had to google all the numbers you had to press just to try and get into a queue....painful is an understatement.