Israel and West Bank Settlements

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cradleandshoot
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by cradleandshoot »

youthathletics wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 1:39 pm
Kismet wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 1:11 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 8:56 am
a fan wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2023 7:51 pm
OCanada wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2023 6:49 pm
You skipped Iraq and the War on Terrror. The cost of that war is about $8 trillion and close to 1 million people killed most of whom were innocents.
And the Gulf War. And Korea. And Vietnam. And, and and and.......
OCanada wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2023 6:49 pm
The world has a responsibility to make decisions and act to resolve this long intractable problem. I have read positions saying it is no longer possible to have a two state solution and ppditions arguing there can be no single state solution. Both parties for the situation the world currently faces. Failure to resolve that issue is not an option.
Has been an option for decades. Obvious thing is to do is send in NATO Troops to occupy Gaza. Then pump money into Gaza to build business.
“For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple and wrong.”

— H. L. Mencken
Like the RW moaners calling BHO's recent comments "word salad" mainly because they are not bright enough to understand nuance and complexity. It's so much easier to whine and complain....and never do or accomplish ANYTHING. :lol: :lol:
Wrong....BHO undercut Joe... "I just got off the phone with — the third call with Prime Minister Netanyahu. And I told him if the United States experienced what Israel is experiencing, our response would be swift, decisive, and overwhelming. "

BHO is eloquent as hell, but should STFU and let the POTUS and his staff do their job without meddling.
+ 1 and calling the gibberish BHO put forth as simply word salad is being very kind. There are times when his desire to the gifted orator he can be just doesn't work. Maybe he needed a corpseman to help him untangle his tongue. :D
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cradleandshoot
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by cradleandshoot »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 2:34 pm
Brooklyn wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 2:29 pm
youthathletics wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 2:23 pm


Just stop with the trolling, Brooklyn. It's getting old, you want one state, we get it...and the only way that happens is with war....so you are actually the one for war.

What a stupid remark that is. Phooey.

If you want another war, why not man up and enlist in the IDF?
I think his point is that you want a one state solution with Palestinians in control...and that ain't happening without war, and genocide of the Jewish Israelis, so why don't you go man up and sign up with Hamas?
They wouldn't take him. The US Army threw his ass out the door back in the 60s when he tried to enlist. :lol:
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Baducchi
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Baducchi »

matnum, don't bother. he genuinely doesn't get it. you're saying, we know the people who are dying, please stop and he's saying, furthermore, not only do i think war is bad, i also think racism is bad, war and racism are bad. he genuinely doesn't understand that he's talking loudly and repeatedly about an nfl game at a funeral. clearly the funeral of someone he doesn't have any connection to. dude's social iq is painfully low.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by PizzaSnake »

youthathletics wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 2:05 pm
OCanada wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 1:58 pm John Helmer excerpt

Its main point — the most remembered today of the lines from the book — is the Athenian declaration: “When these matters are discussed by practical people, the standard of justice depends on the equality of power to compel and that in fact the strong do what they have the power to do and the weak accept what they must.”

This is what US President Joseph Biden and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu are insisting upon. It’s what Biden means to demonstrate with his fleets in the eastern Mediterranean, northern Red Sea, and the Persian Gulf.

This is slaughter of everybody in Gaza because the Americans and the Israelis have the power, for the time being.

A common opinion is historically Israel always responds witj force. If the end result is not satisfactory the next time force is increased. The new Speaket of the House has said in a different context “i never putcpeople ahead of politics.”
Nope! Biden is accountable to protect any and all US citizens, foreign and abroad, by the US Constitution. His preparedness, is just that.
And what of the Palestinian-Americans trapped in southern Gaza by the Egyptian intransigence?
Last edited by PizzaSnake on Tue Nov 07, 2023 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Brooklyn »

cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 3:36 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 2:34 pm
Brooklyn wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 2:29 pm
youthathletics wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 2:23 pm


Just stop with the trolling, Brooklyn. It's getting old, you want one state, we get it...and the only way that happens is with war....so you are actually the one for war.

What a stupid remark that is. Phooey.

If you want another war, why not man up and enlist in the IDF?
I think his point is that you want a one state solution with Palestinians in control...and that ain't happening without war, and genocide of the Jewish Israelis, so why don't you go man up and sign up with Hamas?
They wouldn't take him. The US Army threw his ass out the door back in the 60s when he tried to enlist. :lol:

Yeah like your hero tRump. :lol:


But, like I said before, if the war is so important to you, go ahead and enlist just like that girl did. Evidently, she had more b@lls than did you chickenhawks who want a war but won't fight it.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by OCanada »

An Open Letter from Rabbis and Cantors etc in NA

https://truah.org/an-open-letter-from-n ... -and-gaza/
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Farfromgeneva »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 11:14 am
Brooklyn wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 10:58 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 10:28 am

And yet you are choosing to take it as credible, denying the reality of the intentional, specific slaughter of civilians by Hamas terrorists?


Not to worry as we shall soon find out the truth:

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases ... des-israel


Hold on to your hat till then.
painfully, they have a terrible track record at such. And I support the notion of the UN.

But no, we don't need the UN to tell us what Hamas did was a horrific terrorist attack with systematic acts of barbarism, intentionally committed against civilians. I don't give a hoot as to whether they're labelled by the UN or anyone else as 'war crimes' or not.

But let me remove the suspense, the UN commission will call Israel's air strikes aimed at killing Hamas fighters, destroying Hamas weapons caches, infrastructure, and killing massive numbers of civilians in the process as well: war crimes. They won't put the blame for those civilian deaths on Hamas as using human shields, they'll focus on Israel's decisions to strike knowing that civilians would die.

Brooklyn, I have refrained from drawing conclusions about you, personally, giving you opportunity after opportunity to address these issues honestly and fairly, without bigotry or hyperbole.

It really shouldn't be hard to condemn Hamas' actions, without reservation.

There can be all sorts of empathy for the plight of Palestinians, condemnation of various acts by Israel, but there should be no equivocation in condemning Hamas' actions on Oct 7.
Brooklyn is going to claim his own truth in thai no different than OS or MaGA clowns do with their on fantasies. Ought to be clear by now. Will use weak logic (no way a Jew could speak out against his own people unless he’s 100% correct - logic fail, about 1,000 other examples of this including lots of absence of evidence becoming evidence of absence with him etc), reject news he doesn’t like, counter without bothering to compare logic if something goes against his views etc. you’re talking to a brick wall not an open minded person.
Harvard University, out
University of Utah, in

I am going to get a 4.0 in damage.

(Afan jealous he didn’t do this first)
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by OCanada »

youthathletics wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 2:05 pm
OCanada wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 1:58 pm John Helmer excerpt

Its main point — the most remembered today of the lines from the book — is the Athenian declaration: “When these matters are discussed by practical people, the standard of justice depends on the equality of power to compel and that in fact the strong do what they have the power to do and the weak accept what they must.”

This is what US President Joseph Biden and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu are insisting upon. It’s what Biden means to demonstrate with his fleets in the eastern Mediterranean, northern Red Sea, and the Persian Gulf.

This is slaughter of everybody in Gaza because the Americans and the Israelis have the power, for the time being.

A common opinion is historically Israel always responds witj force. If the end result is not satisfactory the next time force is increased. The new Speaket of the House has said in a different context “i never putcpeople ahead of politics.”
Nope! Biden is accountable to protect any and all US citizens, foreign and abroad, by the US Constitution. His preparedness, is just that.
Sometimes, recently Israeli-Palestinian conflict is indeed a clash between wrong and wrong. It is not as simple as fascism was. Every decent man had to be against fascism, period. It is not as simple as apartheid or colonialism or racism or misogyny. It is not simple because the Palestinians have no other land. They are absolutely right about this. The Israeli Jews also have no other land and they are absolutely right about this. It is a tragedy of two peoples claiming the same very small country, about the size of New Jersey. Amos Oz

It seems you have learned little. Sooner or later there will be a clash between the US and Israel over the Palestinisn issue. Biden’s choice at the moment is counter-productive. Politics over people and achieving a solution but so is the GOP as it tries to wedge votes and donations from the heavily democratic jewish community. The party that hosts antisemitism in its supporters.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Brooklyn »

Beautiful, humane speech by Rabbi:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_Ed24-7QhI

"Our religion being misused by "heretics" to 'justify' all violence ... brutal occupation is anti Judaism and is the cause of all the violence", not Oct 7. We must "stop the occupation in its entirety".



comments:


@scopes2228
1 day ago
Salam and shalom...i love Neturei Karta..May the Lord and Creator bless you all for speaking out against injustice

@ahlemmdini8665
1 day ago (edited)
May God bless you Rabbi thank you for telling the truth 🙏

@pacoshuman7642
19 hours ago
Thank you Rabbi...the world needs to hear from people like you.


@HeloisaAOliveira
22 hours ago
Thank you for bringing truth and propose a pathway to peace. Shalom!



Many blessings to this Rabbi for speaking the truth that warmongers refuse to see.
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by youthathletics »

PizzaSnake wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 3:51 pm
youthathletics wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 2:05 pm
OCanada wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 1:58 pm John Helmer excerpt

Its main point — the most remembered today of the lines from the book — is the Athenian declaration: “When these matters are discussed by practical people, the standard of justice depends on the equality of power to compel and that in fact the strong do what they have the power to do and the weak accept what they must.”

This is what US President Joseph Biden and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu are insisting upon. It’s what Biden means to demonstrate with his fleets in the eastern Mediterranean, northern Red Sea, and the Persian Gulf.

This is slaughter of everybody in Gaza because the Americans and the Israelis have the power, for the time being.

A common opinion is historically Israel always responds witj force. If the end result is not satisfactory the next time force is increased. The new Speaket of the House has said in a different context “i never putcpeople ahead of politics.”
Nope! Biden is accountable to protect any and all US citizens, foreign and abroad, by the US Constitution. His preparedness, is just that.
And what of the Palestinian-Americans trapped in southern Gaza by the Egyptian intransigence?
:roll:
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Matnum PI
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Matnum PI »

Brooklyn wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 4:43 pm ...Many blessings to this Rabbi for speaking the truth that warmongers refuse to see.
If what he's saying is so true, why do the vast majority, *vast* majority of orthodox Jews adamantly disagree with him/them? Amongst orthodox Jews, the Neturei Karta are viewed as crazy people, beyond the fringe. But you're saying that they're speaking the truth. How does that work?
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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Caddy Day
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by youthathletics »

Matnum PI wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 5:35 pm
Looking forward to listening....thanks for posting.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Kismet »

PizzaSnake wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 3:51 pm
youthathletics wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 2:05 pm
OCanada wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 1:58 pm John Helmer excerpt

Its main point — the most remembered today of the lines from the book — is the Athenian declaration: “When these matters are discussed by practical people, the standard of justice depends on the equality of power to compel and that in fact the strong do what they have the power to do and the weak accept what they must.”

This is what US President Joseph Biden and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu are insisting upon. It’s what Biden means to demonstrate with his fleets in the eastern Mediterranean, northern Red Sea, and the Persian Gulf.

This is slaughter of everybody in Gaza because the Americans and the Israelis have the power, for the time being.

A common opinion is historically Israel always responds witj force. If the end result is not satisfactory the next time force is increased. The new Speaket of the House has said in a different context “i never putcpeople ahead of politics.”
Nope! Biden is accountable to protect any and all US citizens, foreign and abroad, by the US Constitution. His preparedness, is just that.
And what of the Palestinian-Americans trapped in southern Gaza by the Egyptian intransigence?
Don't think the primary obstacle is Egypt but rather Hamas who is still searching for leverage wherever they can find it.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Brooklyn »

Matnum PI wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 5:10 pm
Brooklyn wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 4:43 pm ...Many blessings to this Rabbi for speaking the truth that warmongers refuse to see.
If what he's saying is so true, why do the vast majority, *vast* majority of orthodox Jews adamantly disagree with him/them? Amongst orthodox Jews, the Neturei Karta are viewed as crazy people, beyond the fringe. But you're saying that they're speaking the truth. How does that work?

Strangely enough I've come across a few bigoted red neck types up here in the Tundra who feel that way about Jews. And more so about Muslims. Does that mean they are right to harbor such aberrant views?*

But if you feel they are wrong and have misinterpreted the Tanakh, by all means show me where they are wrong and I will happily believe you.




*By the way, I knew a great many people in God's Country, Brooklyn who said that and worse about the Jehovah's Witnesses. :lol:
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Baducchi wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 3:47 pm matnum, don't bother. he genuinely doesn't get it. you're saying, we know the people who are dying, please stop and he's saying, furthermore, not only do i think war is bad, i also think racism is bad, war and racism are bad. he genuinely doesn't understand that he's talking loudly and repeatedly about an nfl game at a funeral. clearly the funeral of someone he doesn't have any connection to. dude's social iq is painfully low.
That’s a darn good analogy. 👍
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Brooklyn »

^ for those of you who are out of touch with reality, thanks to your warped mentality, we are headed to another war:


US is barreling toward another war in the Middle East
What exactly is the Biden administration doing to avoid the broader conflict?

by JONATHAN HOFFMAN, Cato Institute
NOV 06, 2023



https://responsiblestatecraft.org/us-middle-east/



The United States is barreling toward another war in the Middle East. The conflict between Israel and Hamas is rapidly escalating across the region and risks dragging the United States directly into the fray.

The recent barrage of ballistic missiles and drones launched by Yemen’s Houthi movement at Israel — coupled with a statement by the group that such attacks will continue — and the continued attacks on U.S. positions in the region show this conflict is expanding fast. The United States now finds itself on a new war footing with Iran and its regional partners, whom many in Congress have cast as part of a new “Axis of Evil” that includes Russia and China.

The Biden administration is preparing for such a scenario, yet adequate measures are not being taken by Washington to prevent such a disaster from transpiring. Fear among the American public that the United States will be dragged into another Middle East war is rising fast: according to a recent Quinnipiac poll, 84% of respondents were either “very” or “somewhat” concerned that the U.S. could be drawn into the conflict.

President Biden and his team have repeatedly warned Israel against making the same “mistakes” the United States made following September 11, 2001, but it would appear Washington has yet to learn from our own errors of the past two decades.

If the administration does not want to enter another war in the Middle East, it needs to prevent the conflict from pulling in additional actors from across the region. The way the war is being fought at present seems to make that outcome more likely, not less.

Following Hamas’s terror attack on Israel on October 7, the United States significantly increased its military presence in the Middle East in hopes of deterring a broader regional conflict. The United States deployed two aircraft carrier strike groups, with roughly 7,500 personnel on each, two guided-missile destroyers, and nine air squadrons to the Eastern Mediterranean and Red Sea region. Washington also deployed an additional 4,000 troops to the region, with another 2,000 on standby, adding to the roughly 30,000 troops already in the region.

This buildup comes as the conflict is escalating considerably. Over 1,500 Israelis and more than 9,770 Palestinians have died as a result of the war. The situation inside Gaza is dire, with over one million displaced and thousands in desperate need of humanitarian assistance. In the West Bank, violence has also been escalating, with an estimated 152 Palestinians killed by Israeli settlers and soldiers since the war began, resulting in the United States calling on Israel to “protect Palestinians from Israeli extremist settler violence.”

Outside of the war itself, violence is increasing throughout the region. U.S. forces in the Middle East have already been targeted at least 23 times in Iraq and Syria by groups connected to Iran. In response, U.S. forces conducted airstrikes on two facilities linked to the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) in Syria, while vowing to retaliate further if the targeting of U.S. personnel continues. Israel and Hezbollah continue to engage in clashes, with almost 50 Hezbollah fighters killed since October 7.

Hezbollah’s leader, Hassan Nasrallah, delivered his first public address since the start of the war on Friday Nov. 3, where he stressed the independent decision-making of Hamas in launching its attack on Israel while also pressing for an end to the conflict, but maintained that a region-wide war remains possible. Nasrallah also praised Yemen’s Houthis for getting involved. Following the latest barrage of ballistic missiles and drones, the Houthis have now targeted Israel three times since the war began. Israel has also continued to strike Iran-backed militias in Syria following the outbreak of war in Gaza.

The Biden administration needs to square up to the fact that a broader war in the Middle East would be ruinous for the United States and the region.

Given the relative military weakness of America’s regional partners — with the exception of Israel, who would nonetheless be overextended in such a scenario — the United States would have to do the lion’s share of the fighting and would bear the majority of its costs. Such a war would result in dramatic new levels of U.S. commitments and entanglements in the region at a time when the Middle East no longer represents a core theater of U.S. interests.

The risk of a major war in the Middle East comes as the United States is already deeply engaged in assisting Ukraine against Russia’s invasion and trying to deter China in the Indo-Pacific, while carrying a national debt north of $33 trillion and running $1 trillion-plus budget deficits each year in peacetime. Opening a new front in the Middle East while trying to pursue Washington’s stated interests in Europe and the Indo-Pacific risks plunging America toward an economic crisis.

It goes without saying that for the Middle East itself, such a war would be catastrophic, destabilizing the region politically, economically, and militarily. The war would threaten to empower illiberal actors across the region at the expense of genuine stability. The profound human and material costs would plague the Middle East for generations to come.

It should be clear from the past several decades that throwing money, weapons and military assets at the region often has profound negative consequences. In this case, Washington is risking further escalation and even direct U.S. involvement in a region-wide war.

Biden needs to make clear that the central U.S. interest is to stay out of the revolving door of Middle East conflicts and avoid being dragged into a ruinous military campaign across the region.





Anyone with any degree of common sense would readily agree with the truths in that article. This is not our war, none of our goddamn business. Stay the hell out of it and all be good, for us. Only those with anti America globalist ambitions and who are seeking war profits will disagree.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Matnum PI »

Brooklyn wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 7:06 pm Strangely enough I've come across a few bigoted red neck types up here in the Tundra who feel that way about Jews. And more so about Muslims. Does that mean they are right to harbor such aberrant views?
No. Because there are a few of them and they are far from experts about Jews. A better comparison would be millions and millions of psychologists agreeing that depression is real while a vast minority think depression is made-up, not real. You might be interested to hear the minority opinion but, if you're a thinking person, you'd approach them with skepticism. For some reason, this is not how you are approaching this issue. For some reason, you really want to believe the vast minority opinion.
Brooklyn wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 7:06 pm But if you feel they are wrong and have misinterpreted the Tanakh, by all means show me where they are wrong and I will happily believe you.
Nowhere in the Torah does it say the Jews cannot return to the land of Israel and have sovereignty of Israel. Matter of fact, the Jews went to Israel 40 years after leaving Egypt and then were conquered and returned more than once. Jews living in Israel, Jews having sovereignty of Israel are non-issues. They've done it several times and this is captured within the writings of the Jews. Including writings when the Jews had prophets so we could experience G-d's reaction to the Jewish sovereignty. Not just a non-issue but explicitly G-d celebrates the Jews living in and taking care of the holy land. Israel is SO central to what it means to be a Jew. *SO* central. What the Neturei Karta are saying is nonsense. And *this* is where they're missing the mark. When the Jews left Egypt, they used a portable structure as their temple to connect with, communicate with G-d. When the Jews had sovereignty over Israel, per G-d's will, they built a Temple. Which was destroyed when another nation conquered their land. When the Jews had sovereignty again, they built a second temple. And, again, when the land was conquered, this temple was destroyed. Once a year, every year, the saddest day of the year is Tisha b'Av when the Jews remember the destruction of the bais hamikdashes, the two temples. Three times a day, every day, Jews pray. And, at the heart of these prayers is remembering the days when we lived in Israel and had the bais hamikdash. When Jews pray for peace and a better world and heaven on earth *and the removal of antisemitism*, they pray for the rebuilding of the bais hamikdash, the third bais hamikdash, which a Jew will never do until the world has a dramatic change. e.g. heaven on earth, removal of antisemitism, etc. *That* is what is sacrosanct, the building of the third bais hamikdash in Israel. This will not happen until G-d makes it perfectly clear that the time is right. Not having sovereignty over Israel. The third bais hamikdash. All orthodox Jews agree with this. :) Let me change that. I've met Jews who have said differently. Strange Jews. There are strange Irish, strange Brazilians, there are strange Jews. And they are the vast, vast minority. Much like the Neturei Karta. That is where they are wrong. Explicitly. The third temple is the issue, not having sovereignty of Israel. Now, being true to your word when you said, "show me where they are wrong and I will happily believe you", believe me and let this issue go. The Jewish perspective is not that the Jews should not have sovereignty over the land of Israel. There is zero conflict between the Jews and the Torah with the Jews living in and having sovereignty of Israel. If you want to say *you* don't want the Jews to have sovereignty over Israel, feel free. But to say that the Jews' holiest texts , the heart of their religious beliefs don't want them there, don't want them to have sovereignty, that's just blatantly untrue and, to be candid, pretty offensive. Let this issue go...
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Baducchi »

Brooklyn wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 8:26 pm... Only those with anti America globalist ambitions and who are seeking war profits will disagree.
globalists, Israel taking US military funds, seeking war profits, hmmm. globalists who are chasing money. i wonder who our extremely not anti-semitic friend is talking about...
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Brooklyn »

Matnum PI wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2023 10:09 pm
Nowhere in the Torah does it say the Jews cannot return to the land of Israel and have sovereignty of Israel ... But to say that the Jews' holiest texts , the heart of their religious beliefs don't want them there, don't want them to have sovereignty, that's just blatantly untrue and, to be candid, pretty offensive. Let this issue go...

Let the issue continue. See Devorim 30:1,2,3; Isaiah 52:3,12 & 57:13; Hosea 1:7; Zechariah 9:9; Amos 9:8 as only the Messiah can recreate the Kingdom. That's biblical Law. Go ahead and try to prove the Bible wrong.

As the Rabbi said in that video, only a heretic denies the teachings of the Tanakh. He not only called them heretics, he also called called anti Semites. I think he did a good job of telling us who the real anti Semites are in this society. These haters only have an anti Semitic agenda, they are globalist and America hating as well. Remember the old days on LP when the forum right wingers used to condemn what they called the globalist agenda? Somehow they forgot what they used to stand for. And that's the truth which everybody knows.
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