Israel and West Bank Settlements

[lagerhead]

You skipped Iraq and the War on Terrror. The cost of that war is about $8 trillion and close to 1 million people killed most of whom were innocents.

And the Gulf War. And Korea. And Vietnam. And, and and and.......

The world has a responsibility to make decisions and act to resolve this long intractable problem. I have read positions saying it is no longer possible to have a two state solution and ppditions arguing there can be no single state solution. Both parties for the situation the world currently faces. Failure to resolve that issue is not an option.

Has been an option for decades. Obvious thing is to do is send in NATO Troops to occupy Gaza. Then pump money into Gaza to build business.

“For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple and wrong.”

— H. L. Mencken

Got any better ideas? I don't.

If only the UN had a peacekeeping force.

[Brooklyn]

And yet you are choosing to take it as credible, denying the reality of the intentional, specific slaughter of civilians by Hamas terrorists?

Not to worry as we shall soon find out the truth:

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases ... des-israel


Hold on to your hat till then.

[MDlaxfan76]

And yet you are choosing to take it as credible, denying the reality of the intentional, specific slaughter of civilians by Hamas terrorists?

Not to worry as we shall soon find out the truth:

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases ... des-israel


Hold on to your hat till then.

painfully, they have a terrible track record at such. And I support the notion of the UN.

But no, we don't need the UN to tell us what Hamas did was a horrific terrorist attack with systematic acts of barbarism, intentionally committed against civilians. I don't give a hoot as to whether they're labelled by the UN or anyone else as 'war crimes' or not.

But let me remove the suspense, the UN commission will call Israel's air strikes aimed at killing Hamas fighters, destroying Hamas weapons caches, infrastructure, and killing massive numbers of civilians in the process as well: war crimes. They won't put the blame for those civilian deaths on Hamas as using human shields, they'll focus on Israel's decisions to strike knowing that civilians would die.

Brooklyn, I have refrained from drawing conclusions about you, personally, giving you opportunity after opportunity to address these issues honestly and fairly, without bigotry or hyperbole.

It really shouldn't be hard to condemn Hamas' actions, without reservation.

There can be all sorts of empathy for the plight of Palestinians, condemnation of various acts by Israel, but there should be no equivocation in condemning Hamas' actions on Oct 7.

[OCanada]

McConnell: https://www.republicanleader.senate.gov ... pIjCvOdu3d

What did the 1st world do after 9/11? We invaded Afghanistan. Troops from all over the world. NATO went in. Even I, the biggest peacenik ever, understood that when you get attacked, you have to defend yourself.


What we're telling the Israelis in 2023 after a massive terrorist attack (still ongoing, btw) is: shut up and take it, and you better have a cease fire soon.

Pretty obvious from where I sit that Israel is going in to Gaza just like we did in Afghanistan...and ain't gonna leave.

We (Americans) do NOT hold the moral high ground here, folks. How many civilians did we kill over there over 20 years? Estimates are at 40K+, with no real number known.

... I would guess a significantly smaller % of Afghan civilians were killed as collateral damage than Gazan civilians. This is not to justify what we did in Afghanistan. Just calls out the fact that the situation was cleaner. Bigger country with bigger population.

Would we do the same thing in Gaza if it was ours to do, you betcha, probably worse! Would it be right?

What Israel is doing is similar to what the US, ISF & Kurdish allies did to ISIS in Iraq & Syria. Mosul ? Aleppo ?

20% of Israel's citizens are Muslim Arabs. The single state system is working for them.

Not even in the same ballpark as reality. Not even close to working.

[Brooklyn]

painfully, they have a terrible track record at such. And I support the notion of the UN.

But no, we don't need the UN to tell us what Hamas did was a horrific terrorist attack with systematic acts of barbarism, intentionally committed against civilians. I don't give a hoot as to whether they're labelled by the UN or anyone else as 'war crimes' or not.

But let me remove the suspense, the UN commission will call Israel's air strikes aimed at killing Hamas fighters, destroying Hamas weapons caches, infrastructure, and killing massive numbers of civilians in the process as well: war crimes. They won't put the blame for those civilian deaths on Hamas as using human shields, they'll focus on Israel's decisions to strike knowing that civilians would die.

Brooklyn, I have refrained from drawing conclusions about you, personally, giving you opportunity after opportunity to address these issues honestly and fairly, without bigotry or hyperbole.

It really shouldn't be hard to condemn Hamas' actions, without reservation.

There can be all sorts of empathy for the plight of Palestinians, condemnation of various acts by Israel, but there should be no equivocation in condemning Hamas' actions on Oct 7.

What you fail to understand is that all facts must be fully ascertained before we can come to any informed conclusion. Recall all of previous discussions about WMD and Saddam's so called "threats" against the West that we discussed on the old LP. Those who loved Bush continued to harp on the idea that we needed to invade and crucify Saddam because he was the embodiment of Hitler and of the Antichrist all at once. Bush even presented "conclusive proof" of his claims with satellite photos shown by Colin Powell at the UN. Remember? Then it turned out that it was all FAKE. So many of these pro war types were only too eager to start WW III because of the Bush pro war propaganda, then it turned out to be fake. All that despite the disclosures made in the Downing Street Memo. All this truth was fully exposed, yet, the pro war types still continued to demand more war. Why? Obviously, because they were profiting from it. What else could it have been?

Therefore, before you come to any conclusion that only one side is guilty and the other is totally innocent, the better thing to do is to wait until all facts are fully disclosed. Once done, then you draw a more informed decision. This is my preferred choice. I leave you to your own views.

[MDlaxfan76]

painfully, they have a terrible track record at such. And I support the notion of the UN.

But no, we don't need the UN to tell us what Hamas did was a horrific terrorist attack with systematic acts of barbarism, intentionally committed against civilians. I don't give a hoot as to whether they're labelled by the UN or anyone else as 'war crimes' or not.

But let me remove the suspense, the UN commission will call Israel's air strikes aimed at killing Hamas fighters, destroying Hamas weapons caches, infrastructure, and killing massive numbers of civilians in the process as well: war crimes. They won't put the blame for those civilian deaths on Hamas as using human shields, they'll focus on Israel's decisions to strike knowing that civilians would die.

Brooklyn, I have refrained from drawing conclusions about you, personally, giving you opportunity after opportunity to address these issues honestly and fairly, without bigotry or hyperbole.

It really shouldn't be hard to condemn Hamas' actions, without reservation.

There can be all sorts of empathy for the plight of Palestinians, condemnation of various acts by Israel, but there should be no equivocation in condemning Hamas' actions on Oct 7.

What you fail to understand is that all facts must be fully ascertained before we can come to any informed conclusion. Recall all of previous discussions about WMD and Saddam's so called "threats" against the West that we discussed on the old LP. Those who loved Bush continued to harp on the idea that we needed to invade and crucify Saddam because he was the embodiment of Hitler and of the Antichrist all at once. Bush even presented "conclusive proof" of his claims with satellite photos shown by Colin Powell at the UN. Remember? Then it turned out that it was all FAKE. So many of these pro war types were only too eager to start WW III because of the Bush pro war propaganda, then it turned out to be fake. All that despite the disclosures made in the Downing Street Memo. All this truth was fully exposed, yet, the pro war types still continued to demand more war. Why? Obviously, because they were profiting from it. What else could it have been?

Therefore, before you come to any conclusion that only one side is guilty and the other is totally innocent, the better thing to do is to wait until all facts are fully disclosed. Once done, then you draw a more informed decision. This is my preferred choice. I leave you to your own views.

Do you imagine (in sort of fever state) that I would “come to any conclusion that one side is guilty and the other is totally innocent “???

Do you read anything I write, including immediately above???

But no, unless you imagine that the atrocities committed by HAMAS on October 7 were completely fabricated, that the security videos are phony, that the videos released by HAMAS showing these acts and their exultation in them are fabricated? Do you also imagine that the over 200 hostages weren’t taken??

Nope, this happened. And it’s unequivocally evil.

Get there and we can talk about the preceding and subsequent acts of Israel or anyone else.

[Kismet]

You skipped Iraq and the War on Terrror. The cost of that war is about $8 trillion and close to 1 million people killed most of whom were innocents.

And the Gulf War. And Korea. And Vietnam. And, and and and.......

The world has a responsibility to make decisions and act to resolve this long intractable problem. I have read positions saying it is no longer possible to have a two state solution and ppditions arguing there can be no single state solution. Both parties for the situation the world currently faces. Failure to resolve that issue is not an option.

Has been an option for decades. Obvious thing is to do is send in NATO Troops to occupy Gaza. Then pump money into Gaza to build business.

“For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple and wrong.”

— H. L. Mencken

Like the RW moaners calling BHO's recent comments "word salad" mainly because they are not bright enough to understand nuance and complexity. It's so much easier to whine and complain....and never do or accomplish ANYTHING.

[youthathletics]

You skipped Iraq and the War on Terrror. The cost of that war is about $8 trillion and close to 1 million people killed most of whom were innocents.

And the Gulf War. And Korea. And Vietnam. And, and and and.......

The world has a responsibility to make decisions and act to resolve this long intractable problem. I have read positions saying it is no longer possible to have a two state solution and ppditions arguing there can be no single state solution. Both parties for the situation the world currently faces. Failure to resolve that issue is not an option.

Has been an option for decades. Obvious thing is to do is send in NATO Troops to occupy Gaza. Then pump money into Gaza to build business.

“For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple and wrong.”

— H. L. Mencken

Like the RW moaners calling BHO's recent comments "word salad" mainly because they are not bright enough to understand nuance and complexity. It's so much easier to whine and complain....and never do or accomplish ANYTHING.

Wrong....BHO undercut Joe... "I just got off the phone with — the third call with Prime Minister Netanyahu. And I told him if the United States experienced what Israel is experiencing, our response would be swift, decisive, and overwhelming. "

BHO is eloquent as hell, but should STFU and let the POTUS and his staff do their job without meddling.

[PizzaSnake]

You skipped Iraq and the War on Terrror. The cost of that war is about $8 trillion and close to 1 million people killed most of whom were innocents.

And the Gulf War. And Korea. And Vietnam. And, and and and.......

The world has a responsibility to make decisions and act to resolve this long intractable problem. I have read positions saying it is no longer possible to have a two state solution and ppditions arguing there can be no single state solution. Both parties for the situation the world currently faces. Failure to resolve that issue is not an option.

Has been an option for decades. Obvious thing is to do is send in NATO Troops to occupy Gaza. Then pump money into Gaza to build business.

“For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple and wrong.”

— H. L. Mencken

Got any better ideas? I don't.

I have formulated a thought -- land for peace. The US would allow unfettered immigration in the interest of providing a livable area. The surrounding nations, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria are either unwilling or unable to absorb many. Also, remaining in such close proximity would increase the likelihood of continued engagement in the "cause" and not really be any sort of de-escalation. Such a "long-view" solution takes time, but like a planting a tree, the best time to implement was 20 years ago, but today will suffice.

Unfortunately, like all layered and nuanced issues, there are a multitude of constituencies. I see no way to accommodate all; in fact, the "hard-line" constituencies(on "both" sides) are nothing I would countenance.

I decry barbarity on any actor's part. I heard an interesting, well, heart-rending, interview with MSF re the plight of the young in Gaza, but also the West Bank. Horrific, in a word. The most likely outcome of that upbringing will be a human with a certain negative outlook on certain peoples and governments, rightly or wrongly.

I would also think the corrosive effects of such an upbringing are not confined to the Palestinian population. The young in Israel are also being warped into less than admirable and useful beings.

But hey, a win-win, guaranteed to pay handsome dividends in perpetuity.

Oh, to those offended by working lexicons of more than 500 words, I will endeavor to find a "stupid-bot" to provide versions more palatable in the future...

[OCanada]

John Helmer excerpt

Its main point — the most remembered today of the lines from the book — is the Athenian declaration: “When these matters are discussed by practical people, the standard of justice depends on the equality of power to compel and that in fact the strong do what they have the power to do and the weak accept what they must.”

This is what US President Joseph Biden and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu are insisting upon. It’s what Biden means to demonstrate with his fleets in the eastern Mediterranean, northern Red Sea, and the Persian Gulf.

This is slaughter of everybody in Gaza because the Americans and the Israelis have the power, for the time being.

A common opinion is historically Israel always responds witj force. If the end result is not satisfactory the next time force is increased. The new Speaket of the House has said in a different context “i never putcpeople ahead of politics.”

[youthathletics]

John Helmer excerpt

Its main point — the most remembered today of the lines from the book — is the Athenian declaration: “When these matters are discussed by practical people, the standard of justice depends on the equality of power to compel and that in fact the strong do what they have the power to do and the weak accept what they must.”

This is what US President Joseph Biden and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu are insisting upon. It’s what Biden means to demonstrate with his fleets in the eastern Mediterranean, northern Red Sea, and the Persian Gulf.

This is slaughter of everybody in Gaza because the Americans and the Israelis have the power, for the time being.

A common opinion is historically Israel always responds witj force. If the end result is not satisfactory the next time force is increased. The new Speaket of the House has said in a different context “i never putcpeople ahead of politics.”

Nope! Biden is accountable to protect any and all US citizens, foreign and abroad, by the US Constitution. His preparedness, is just that.

[Brooklyn]

Do you imagine (in sort of fever state) that I would “come to any conclusion that one side is guilty and the other is totally innocent “???

Do you read anything I write, including immediately above???

But no, unless you imagine that the atrocities committed by HAMAS on October 7 were completely fabricated, that the security videos are phony, that the videos released by HAMAS showing these acts and their exultation in them are fabricated? Do you also imagine that the over 200 hostages weren’t taken??

Nope, this happened. And it’s unequivocally evil.

Get there and we can talk about the preceding and subsequent acts of Israel or anyone else.

Didn't say any video by Hamas or any subsequent actions taken by Israel were imaginary. It sounds like you are hellbent for yet another war. As always, you are free to go there as the IDF is looking for more recruits.

Like I said before, I'll wait for the UN to reach its conclusions before making any informed opinions on anything going on there.

[youthathletics]

Do you imagine (in sort of fever state) that I would “come to any conclusion that one side is guilty and the other is totally innocent “???

Do you read anything I write, including immediately above???

But no, unless you imagine that the atrocities committed by HAMAS on October 7 were completely fabricated, that the security videos are phony, that the videos released by HAMAS showing these acts and their exultation in them are fabricated? Do you also imagine that the over 200 hostages weren’t taken??

Nope, this happened. And it’s unequivocally evil.

Get there and we can talk about the preceding and subsequent acts of Israel or anyone else.

Didn't say any video by Hamas or any subsequent actions taken by Israel were imaginary. It sounds like you are hellbent for yet another war. As always, you are free to go there as the IDF is looking for more recruits.

Like I said before, I'll wait for the UN to reach its conclusions before making any informed opinions on anything going on there.

Just stop with the trolling, Brooklyn. It's getting old, you want one state, we get it...and the only way that happens is with war....so you are actually the one for war.

[Brooklyn]

Just stop with the trolling, Brooklyn. It's getting old, you want one state, we get it...and the only way that happens is with war....so you are actually the one for war.

What a stupid remark that is. Phooey.

If you want another war, why not man up and enlist in the IDF?

[MDlaxfan76]

Do you imagine (in sort of fever state) that I would “come to any conclusion that one side is guilty and the other is totally innocent “???

Do you read anything I write, including immediately above???

But no, unless you imagine that the atrocities committed by HAMAS on October 7 were completely fabricated, that the security videos are phony, that the videos released by HAMAS showing these acts and their exultation in them are fabricated? Do you also imagine that the over 200 hostages weren’t taken??

Nope, this happened. And it’s unequivocally evil.

Get there and we can talk about the preceding and subsequent acts of Israel or anyone else.

Didn't say any video by Hamas or any subsequent actions taken by Israel were imaginary. It sounds like you are hellbent for yet another war. As always, you are free to go there as the IDF is looking for more recruits.

Like I said before, I'll wait for the UN to reach its conclusions before making any informed opinions on anything going on there.

So, the sole arbiter of the truth according to Brooklyn is the UN ???

You just can't bring yourself to agreeing, unequivocally, that the terrorist acts committed by HAMAS on Oct 7 were evil and unjustifiable.

And then move on to the legitimate issues of innocent Palestinians being brutalized, whether by HAMAS or by Israel.

Nope, gotta accuse me, without ANY substantiation, that I am "hellbent for war".

Sorry, the war is happening, it's disgustingly awful. I wish this wasn't the reality, but it is.
We can debate its necessity from various perspectives, but let me be clear that I want to see a lasting peaceful resolution as soon as that can be achieved. One which ensures that all parties have the opportunity to live in peace, free of fear of terrorist acts, and with dignity and opportunity for the prosperity hard work should be able to achieve.

[MDlaxfan76]

Just stop with the trolling, Brooklyn. It's getting old, you want one state, we get it...and the only way that happens is with war....so you are actually the one for war.

What a stupid remark that is. Phooey.

If you want another war, why not man up and enlist in the IDF?

I think his point is that you want a one state solution with Palestinians in control...and that ain't happening without war, and genocide of the Jewish Israelis, so why don't you go man up and sign up with Hamas?

[Brooklyn]

I think his point is that you want a one state solution with Palestinians in control...and that ain't happening without war, and genocide of the Jewish Israelis, so why don't you go man up and sign up with Hamas?

That remark is equally stupid.

Israel claims to be a democracy, remember? If it's so democratic, why not fulfill its professed roles by being one state for all inhabitants?

The idea of spending $260 billion of our dollars to perpetuate an Apartheid state is beyond all logic. Utterly stupid and against everything our Constitution and American ideals stand for.

I said over and over again: not one cent for them, for Ukraine, for the UN, for NATO, or anybody else. Our dollars stay here. Want to send your money over there. Fine. Go ahead, send you money, enlist in the IDF, do your own fighting. Just be sure to send us a picture postcard.

[Matnum PI]

Pretty heart wrenching. Jew from Atlanta.

https://roughdraftatlanta.com/2023/11/0 ... fe-attack/

[Matnum PI]

...enlist in the IDF, do your own fighting. Just be sure to send us a picture postcard.

Elisheva Rubin did. And she was stabbed to death. In the Old City no less. Brooklyn, what you fail to recognize is that all your posts are just theoretical conjecture. Just, I'm anti-war! You've never spent any real time in the West Bank, in Gaza. If at all. You don't have family and friends and people you care about in these areas. This isn't real for you. For many, many Americans, Jews throughout the world, what's happening in Israel is very real. You have got to stop...

[Brooklyn]

...enlist in the IDF, do your own fighting. Just be sure to send us a picture postcard.

Elisheva Rubin did. And she was stabbed to death. In the Old City no less. Brooklyn, what you fail to recognize is that all your posts are just theoretical conjecture. Just, I'm anti-war! You've never spent any real time in the West Bank, in Gaza. If at all. You don't have family and friends and people you care about in these areas. This isn't real for you. For many, many Americans, Jews throughout the world, what's happening in Israel is very real. You have got to stop...

On another thread, I mentioned how another innocent black guy was killed by cops. While one of his killers was convicted, the other was released. Such crimes are preventable. People like you don't give a damn about it as foreign affairs are of greater importance. But it is important to me.

That's why I say - no more wars, no more involvement in foreign affairs, not one more penny sent overseas. Those who want it can go ahead and fight those wars themselves. As for me, over my many years I've worked with AIM, the Urban League, the NAACP, and several other groups to stop all injustices that occur here. The USA ~ that's my priority. Any real patriot would say the same.