Israel and West Bank Settlements

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NattyBohChamps04
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by NattyBohChamps04 »

Brooklyn wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:31 pm
you're not Jewish or religious

Certainly not religious but can trace my ancestry directly to the House of David.

Be sure to send us a picture postcard of your adventures with the IDF.
Cool. I've got ancestors fleeing Imperialist Russia, ancestors on the Mayflower, ancestors in Jamestown. I've got ancestors to the house of Adam.

Be sure to send us a picture postcard of your adventures killing innocents with Hamas and your adventures killing innocents with the IDF. Coward.

That's how much sense you make.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Brooklyn »

So butt hurt.

You need to understand that war is hell and that is always a price to be paid when they take place. For over half a century you in the pro war crowd have had your way and it has always resulted in deaths.

As for me, I offered a solution, one that could have brought about peace. But no one in your camp bought it and that is why there are so many troubles there.

Once the war commences again, the blood of all those innocents are in your hands, not mine.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by NattyBohChamps04 »

Brooklyn wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:47 pm So butt hurt.

You need to understand that war is hell and that is always a price to be paid when they take place. For over half a century you in the pro war crowd have had your way and it has always resulted in deaths.

As for me, I offered a solution, one that could have brought about peace. But no one in your camp bought it and that is why there are so many troubles there.

Once the war commences again, the blood of all those innocents are in your hands, not mine.
You can't even respond to me directly. You don't realize you're the pro war crowd and it's sad and hilarious. I'm sure you'll have to get in another last word. Keep going, I'm almost there.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Brooklyn »

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:50 pm
Brooklyn wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:47 pm So butt hurt.

You need to understand that war is hell and that is always a price to be paid when they take place. For over half a century you in the pro war crowd have had your way and it has always resulted in deaths.

As for me, I offered a solution, one that could have brought about peace. But no one in your camp bought it and that is why there are so many troubles there.

Once the war commences again, the blood of all those innocents are in your hands, not mine.
You can't even respond to me directly. You don't realize you're the pro war crowd and it's sad and hilarious. I'm sure you'll have to get in another last word. Keep going, I'm almost there.


If it's the last word that you want, I'll re post your own words:


Israel has committed its own war crimes, atrocities, and murder throughout the decades starting with the 1948 war. Including hundreds of women and children just in that initial conflict.

They are not without sin in this whole mess. And just because they have the power to fight back nowadays doesn't give them carte blanche to hurt innocents either. We can't give them blanket immunity and turn a blind eye.

Funny thing is, Palestinians are Semites too.

viewtopic.php?p=498528#p498528
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Brooklyn »

Oxfam: Israel Using Starvation as ‘Weapon of War’ Against Gaza Civilians
Just 2% of the food that would have been delivered to Gaza before the 'total siege' has been let in



https://news.antiwar.com/2023/10/25/oxf ... civilians/


The international charity group Oxfam has said Israel is using starvation as a “weapon of war” against Palestinian civilians living in Gaza, as barely any food is being delivered to the besieged enclave.

Gaza has been under blockade since 2007, and Israel imposed a “total siege” on October 9, cutting off all food, fuel, and medicine. A limited number of aid trucks have been allowed into Gaza from Egypt recently, but Oxfam said only 2% of the food that was previously delivered is going in.

“The international agency analyzed UN data and found that just 2% of food that would have been delivered has entered Gaza since the total siege,” Oxfam said in a press release. “While a small amount of food aid has been allowed in, no commercial food imports have been delivered.”

Oxfam said that prior to the total siege, 104 trucks a day delivered food to Gaza. Since the weekend, 62 trucks have been allowed to enter Gaza through Egypt, but only 30 were carrying food.

“The situation is nothing short of horrific—where is humanity? Millions of civilians are being collectively punished in full view of the world. There can be no justification for using starvation as a weapon of war,” said Sally Abi Khalil, Oxfam’s Middle East director.

Oxfam said Gaza is also virtually out of clean water, making some of the food that has been let in, such as rice and lentils, useless since people do not have clean water or fuel to prepare them. The group said Israeli airstrikes have hit bakeries and supermarkets, further straining the food supply. The electricity blackout and lack of fuel have also disrupted the supply of food.





The great "humanitarian" government that is financed by your tax dollars.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by NattyBohChamps04 »

Brooklyn wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:55 pm
NattyBohChamps04 wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:50 pm
Brooklyn wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:47 pm So butt hurt.

You need to understand that war is hell and that is always a price to be paid when they take place. For over half a century you in the pro war crowd have had your way and it has always resulted in deaths.

As for me, I offered a solution, one that could have brought about peace. But no one in your camp bought it and that is why there are so many troubles there.

Once the war commences again, the blood of all those innocents are in your hands, not mine.
You can't even respond to me directly. You don't realize you're the pro war crowd and it's sad and hilarious. I'm sure you'll have to get in another last word. Keep going, I'm almost there.


If it's the last word that you want, I'll re post your own words:


Israel has committed its own war crimes, atrocities, and murder throughout the decades starting with the 1948 war. Including hundreds of women and children just in that initial conflict.

They are not without sin in this whole mess. And just because they have the power to fight back nowadays doesn't give them carte blanche to hurt innocents either. We can't give them blanket immunity and turn a blind eye.

Funny thing is, Palestinians are Semites too.

viewtopic.php?p=498528#p498528

And you wanna wipe them out in war with your proposed "one state solution" where a certain group gets eventually taken over in your specific version where one group has power over the other. I acknowledge we're in a murky world. You think it's black and white. You're a sad individual.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Brooklyn »

^ democracy does not wipe out anyone as we see in the USA, Canada, UK, and elsewhere. Only the hate filled delusionals who project their bigotry believe that it does .
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by OCanada »

In Israel’s election of 1999 the Likud party said it “ flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west the Jordan river. It has never changed it.

Speaking for Ariel Sharon Dov Weisglass said “ the significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process” “when you freeze that process you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state and you prevent a discussion on refugees, the borders, and Jerusalem. Effectively, this whole package called the Palestinian State, with all that it entails, has been removed from our agenda. All of this with authority and permission. All with a presidential blessing and the ratification of both houses of Congress.”
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Brooklyn »

In the USA we reject exclusionist segregation, we rejected Apartheid and joined international efforts to end it. But the government and a few apologists for segregation happily approve of exclusionist Zionism:


Zionism – An Ideology for the Self-Loathing


https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2023/10/26 ... -loathing/


When I told my grandmother that I was going to visit Europe for the first time, she exploded, “Oy vey!” Raising her voice, she exclaimed: “There’s nothing there! NOTHING! Just poverty and filth.” Collecting herself, she added: “You like foreign food? There’s better in New York.”

For her generation of Jews, there was little nostalgia for the old country…and for good reason. She had been an involuntary participant in pogroms, violent riots massacring Jews. Fast forward to the present, the perpetrators are being rehabilitated. Volodymyr Zelenskyy, disregarding his religious heritage, honors the murderous Stepan Bandera as one of his “indisputable heroes.”


My dear grandmother, like so many other immigrants from eastern Europe, had endured the oppression of the shtetl. She then came to these shores and became a Fancy American Lady. Her friends came to call her Fanny, a sophisticated name rather than her given one of Felicia. There was no going back for them.

Of the diverse mélange of ethnic groups that comprise the so-called American melting pot, the Jews – to the extent that one can generalize about anyone – are unique in having no affection for whence they came. The old folks would say in their more cynical moments that they “came from hunger” rather than a particular country.

In the case of my family, I don’t even know from where specifically they came. As a child, I intuitively learned that there were some subjects that were out of bounds. Our family’s past was an implicitly verboten topic. Now they are gone, and I wish that I had asked about their early life.

Although my relatives had no intention of returning to Europe, they still retained the culture they brought with them.

The old folks did not have a particular interest in Zionism. However, for many of my co-religionists today, the tradition of European Jewish culture is shunned. It is replaced by the Disneyesque synthetic of political Zionism. The shame and pain of the past is buried in the Zionist conceit.

The ideal of the Jewish scholar has been discarded for the veneration of the warrior. No longer identifying as the “people of the book,” the Zionist is proud to be the gun bearer. Grace and mercy have made way for a vengeance of biblical proportions. The Zionist state is unapologetically nuclear armed and a leading world purveyor of cluster bombs, surveillance equipment, and policing technology.

Our warm Yiddish language with its the rich literature, theatre, and song has been cast off. Also tellingly vanishing is its humor and humanity; its sometimes self-deprecating humility. In its place is a former liturgical language, Hebrew. Unearthed from the cold catacombs, the new tongue is a deliberate part of a break from tradition in a project to build a new national identity that escapes from its past.

Zionism rests on a mythos of a supreme being who chose a particular people to establish a nation on the eastern Mediterranean coast. More political than religious, Zionism posits a basic antagonism between Jews and others, necessitating an exclusive state to defend the former against the rest.

Long one of many currents in the Jewish diaspora, even before World War II, Zionism got legs in the aftermath of the Holocaust. Though still disputed in some circles, it is today the dominant ideology of the diaspora and the Israeli state.

“Making aliyah” is to return to what is described as our motherland, the land of our origins per the Zionists. Aliyah is one of the most basic tenets of Zionism.

What do you take me for, a schlemiel? Genetic evidence shows that the European Jews never occupied the occupied territories. We can’t “go back” to a place that was never ours. The European settlers, who immigrated as part of the Zionist project to the territory now claimed by Israel, were not descended from the Jewish people depicted in the Bible. Rather, they were in all likelihood the descendants of converts to Judaism.

Chaim Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Congress, explained back in 1914: “There is a country which happens to be called Palestine, a country without a people, and, on the other hand, there exists the Jewish people, and it has no country. What else is necessary, then, than to fit the gem into the ring, to unite this people with this country?”

Of course there was the inconvenient existence of the indigenous people who lived there and had done so for millennia. But to the settler colonialists that now head the Zionist state, these indigenous are literally “animals.” As I write this, those untermenschen are being cleansed out.

The narrow nationalist and xenophobic tribalism of Zionism contrasts with the universal humanism of “welcoming the stranger” at the Passover table. In traditional Jewish culture, a seat was added to the family table for a stranger on the religious feast day. This beautiful ritual was explicitly designed to engender empathy for others.

The Torah reminds those who have not renounced their past: “You shall not oppress the stranger, for you know the feelings of the stranger, having yourselves been strangers in the land of Egypt (Exodus 23:9).” That is why many anti-Zionist Jews in today’s political context resonate with the slogan, “we are ALL Palestinians.”

Over time, the Zionists have achieved a horrific conversion of an oppressed people becoming the oppressor. But they could not have done that transformation alone. The political ideology of Zionism had to be inseparably joined in a seamless union with US imperialism. As US President Biden emphasized, “making sure Israel and Ukraine succeed is vital for America’s national security.”

Endless war is the prescription for the US imperial/Zionist joint project. A ceasefire let alone a peace with justice is off the table. Perversely, political Zionism has instrumentalized Jewish identity into a tool of empire.

Paradoxically the biggest fans of modern Zionism outside of the Jewish community are anti-Semitic autocrats. They love the Apartheid state because of its institutionalized racism, not in spite of it. Name an international bully and you can bet they’re bullish about the so-called Promised Land.

Yet growing numbers of us still embrace our ancestral identity and, especially in light of current events, wholly renounce its self-loathing antithesis of Zionism. What the Nazis failed to achieve – the obliteration of European Jewish culture – the Zionists are carrying forward. We have a word for that in Yiddish. It’s a shanda, a scandalous embarrassment and shame.

Roger D. Harris is with the human rights organization Task Force on the Americas, founded in 1985.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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Brooklyn wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 10:25 am In the USA we reject exclusionist segregation, we rejected Apartheid and joined international efforts to end it. But the government and a few apologists for segregation happily approve of exclusionist Zionism:
So....where are your complaints about Egypt, Brooks? No Jewish people.

Or Syria. Or Lebanon? No Jewish people. Or Iraq.

Where are your posts condemning them, and demanding we cut ties with them?


There aren't any posts, Brooks. You don't REALLY care about exclusionist religious practices.

You only care about Jewish people having a voice or a say, anywhere in that region. You don't like it, and want them out.

You need to work harder to hide what you're really about on this subject. It's why you have never complained about the Billions we've sent to Palestinians...because that aid goes to Hamas, too. You don't care.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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Brooklyn wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 9:42 am ^ democracy does not wipe out anyone
Oh, yes it does. Egypt. Already pointed this out, Brookie. You can't run and hide on this point.

No Jewish people in Egypt. And this doesn't bother you in the slightest. This never even gained your attention.

This tells you all you want to know about what Brookie REALLY wants; he wants the Jewish people out. That's it. Nothing more.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by OCanada »

a fan wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 11:52 am
Brooklyn wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 9:42 am ^ democracy does not wipe out anyone
Oh, yes it does. Egypt. Already pointed this out, Brookie. You can't run and hide on this point.

No Jewish people in Egypt. And this doesn't bother you in the slightest. This never even gained your attention.

This tells you all you want to know about what Brookie REALLY wants; he wants the Jewish people out. That's it. Nothing more.

Israel started displacing Palestinians before they a achieved independence. It has been a strategy.

https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2393 ... es-history
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by a fan »

OCanada wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:05 pm
a fan wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 11:52 am
Brooklyn wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 9:42 am ^ democracy does not wipe out anyone
Oh, yes it does. Egypt. Already pointed this out, Brookie. You can't run and hide on this point.

No Jewish people in Egypt. And this doesn't bother you in the slightest. This never even gained your attention.

This tells you all you want to know about what Brookie REALLY wants; he wants the Jewish people out. That's it. Nothing more.

Israel started displacing Palestinians before they a achieved independence. It has been a strategy.

https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2393 ... es-history
I'm not arguing any of that. Happy to concede that Israel has played things VERY poorly for at least the last 20 years. And have already said, if I were in charge, I'd pump billions into the Gaza economy, and make it a great place to live. Stop with the new Jewish settlements, etc.

Yet I can fairly ask you: are you bothered that Jewish people have been pushed out of Egypt and the rest of the countries I've listed? Because if you're bothered that the Palestinians have been pushed out, it should bother you that the Jewish people in surrounding countries have been pushed out.

All the complaints about "pushing people out" are solely directed at the Israelis....this is not an evenhanded charge.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by PizzaSnake »

WhTF!?!?!

American citizens can't leave Gaza? Tell Egypt, Israel, and Hamas, etc., pointblank, that the US Marines will be securing the southern portion of Gaza in order that ALL US citizens currently trapped in Gaza can leave. But anyone who chooses to remain of their own volition is --

On.
Their.
Fcuking.
Own.

henceforth. And that most certainly includes American citizens anywhere in that dog-forsaken hellhole (to include Jordan, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, etc.).

Fcuk with the Marines, get the sword. Period.

"Agree?" "Grant?" How about the US agrees not to lay fcuking waste? Hmm? How about them apples?

'In the days that followed, the State Department blamed a single culprit: Hamas. However, according to emails and messages reviewed by ABC News, U.S. officials privately provided a different explanation to Okal, saying their inability to cross the border was the result of a failure to lock up a diplomatic agreement among Israel, Egypt and the terrorist group to grant Americans safe passage out of Gaza.

"There's more than one sticking point. We need Egypt, Israel, and the DFA to all agree," a senior State Department official wrote in an email sent Saturday to Nabulsi, presumably using the acronym "DFA" to refer to the de facto authorities controlling Gaza: Hamas. "We are very close to agreement with two of the three. And we are working the third very hard."

The senior official added in the same email to Nabulsi that U.S. officials had advised consular officers working with Americans in Gaza "not to issue any additional statements advising Americans of opportunities to cross Rafah until we have a clear 'yes' from all actors."'

https://abcnews.go.com/International/st ... =104351730

Or are Palestinian-Americans or whichever dual citizens that are trapped there less than? Tired of the mealy-mouthed hypocrisy.

Time to put up, or shut up, President Biden.

See, I can do intemperate as well. Playtime is over.

Anyone here have a problem with supporting ALL American citizens equally?
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Brooklyn »

a fan wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 11:52 am
Brooklyn wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 9:42 am ^ democracy does not wipe out anyone
Oh, yes it does. Egypt. Already pointed this out, Brookie. You can't run and hide on this point.

No Jewish people in Egypt. And this doesn't bother you in the slightest. This never even gained your attention.

This tells you all you want to know about what Brookie REALLY wants; he wants the Jewish people out. That's it. Nothing more.

Bigoted fan thinks Egypt is a democracy. Holy HELL! Do your homework before posting such nonsense:

https://www.idea.int/democracytracker/country/egypt


President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi is the leading candidate in the election, running for what would be his third term. Within days of the announcement of the upcoming election, rights groups in Egypt began to report that dozens of opposition party supporters had been arrested in different parts of the country, often on charges of spreading false news, or joining a terrorist group. Such arrests are not uncommon in Egypt (where some sources estimate there are as many as 60,000 political prisoners), but they appear to be increasing in number in the lead up to the election. The timing of these arrests makes them even more important as they are likely to severely impair the fairness of the electoral process.




Obviously you don't know What the heck you're talking about. Just too blinded by your Islamophobic hate and bigotry.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Brooklyn »

son of IDF general tells the truth about Israeli terrorism:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4ivtdzbaOY


Miko Peled, the son of an Israeli general, explains the barbarity and criminal logic of the Israeli bombardment of Gaza.

Palestinians are being massacred by Israel after the Al-Aqsa Flood uprising that began on October 7, with bombs hitting apartment buildings and ambulances, fuel running out, and Israel blockading food, water, and aid from the Gaza Strip — announced by Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant as treatment for “human animals.” Meanwhile, Western media is pushing the narrative that presents Israelis as victims rather than the long-besieged Palestinians. What is the root of this war? How did a group of fighters take Israel’s well-funded army with a sophisticated surveillance arm by surprise? What is the status of the Israeli state?

Brian Becker is joined by Miko Peled, a human rights activist, host of The Miko Peled Podcast, and author of “The General’s Son - A Journey of an Israeli in Palestine” and "Injustice: The Story of the Holy Land Foundation Five.” You can find his podcast, books, and much more at mikopeled.com.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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Brooklyn wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 5:28 pm Bigoted fan thinks Egypt is a democracy. Holy HELL! Do your homework before posting such nonsense:

https://www.idea.int/democracytracker/country/egypt

President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi is the leading candidate in the election, running for what would be his third term. Within days of the announcement of the upcoming election, rights groups in Egypt began to report that dozens of opposition party supporters had been arrested in different parts of the country, often on charges of spreading false news, or joining a terrorist group. Such arrests are not uncommon in Egypt (where some sources estimate there are as many as 60,000 political prisoners), but they appear to be increasing in number in the lead up to the election. The timing of these arrests makes them even more important as they are likely to severely impair the fairness of the electoral process.

Obviously you don't know What the heck you're talking about. Just too blinded by your Islamophobic hate and bigotry.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Told ya, fellas....all you have to do is ask the right questions, and Brookie's real intentions are laid bare for all to see.


This is what you want for the Jewish people, Brookie.

A fake "Democratic Israel with a Muslim majority" (your words) that quashes all dissent, and drives the Jewish people into the sea.

Hilariously, you're HOW telling us that this "Democracy" that you want to foist on the Jewish people ain't workin' so well. And that (shocker) no Jewish people live in Egypt.

Thanks for the laugh. You just told yourself that your own "One State" plan will eliminate the Jewish people. Nicely done.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Brooklyn »

a fan wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 5:56 pm :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Told ya, fellas....all you have to do is ask the right questions, and Brookie's real intentions are laid bare for all to see.


This is what you want for the Jewish people, Brookie.

A fake "Democratic Israel with a Muslim majority" (your words) that quashes all dissent, and drives the Jewish people into the sea.

Hilariously, you're HOW telling us that this "Democracy" that you want to foist on the Jewish people ain't workin' so well. And that (shocker) no Jewish people live in Egypt.

Thanks for the laugh. You just told yourself that your own "One State" plan will eliminate the Jewish people. Nicely done.


Thank you for again showing that you don't know what the fkkkk you're talking about as Egypt's dictator was groomed by Bush's cabal of evil doers rather than by those who are for democracy:


https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... or-103628/


Egypt's New Dictator Was Made in the USA
The U.S. trained him and funds his regime.


... Critics wondered if Sisi’s comments reflected a messianic streak. But perhaps a man who seeks solace in dreams is also a bit worried about his place in Egypt’s chaotic political life.

“He’s insecure, paranoid … his governing coalition is incredibly narrow and weak,” Stacher says. “Everyone remembers Nasser now as all-powerful, but he was hyper-insecure for the first 10 years of his reign … Sisi is weak like Nasser was, but unlike Nasser, he can’t offer much to the people. If I were him, I would be pretty nervous.”




DICTATOR, not democrat, just like your hero tRump.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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Brooklyn wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 6:35 pm Thank you for again showing that you don't know what the fkkkk you're talking about as Egypt's dictator was groomed by Bush's cabal of evil doers rather than by those who are for democracy:
:lol: He was elected, just like you're telling us you want for Israel, Brookie. Remember, this is YOUR PLAN.


So now what you're telling us is that YOUR Democracy in Israel is going to be sparkle-awesome. Not like the "bad" democracy in Egypt?

By all means, keep telling us you want "democracy" in the Middle East, and this Israeli democracy will just LOVE unarmed Jewish people. :lol:
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Brooklyn »

He was "elected" with 60,000 opponents in prison in a deMOCKcracy election. Ok, now I get it. :lol:

He has as much regard for the rights of his opponents as your hero Netanyahu has for Palestinians.
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