Israel and West Bank Settlements

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Re: Israel and Zionism

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Brooklyn wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 1:53 pm
Hahahahahaha!!!! ~ you missed the fact that I've called for the freeing of Leonard Peltier (and previously called for the conviction of the FBI criminals who framed him), was associated with AIM, and knew Clyde Bellecourt before he passed away about a year ago.

Now I'm really laughing at you.

Pardon me while I continue to laugh ....
:lol: How does playing the lefties greatest hits "Free Leonard Peltier" change the fact that you are living on stolen land, and refuse to give it back?

You're stuck. You've told us that only the Jewish people have to return land they "stole".

Toldyaso: at the heart of this is anti-semitism. For Brookie, Americans like him can keep the land they stole. Jewish people don't get this benefit that Brookie himself enjoys.

Cute trick, isn't it?
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Brooklyn
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Brooklyn »

Funny how the only "solution" for the bigoted forum Islamophobes is more violence. OK, so let's hear it: how many of you are going to enlist in the IDF and do some fighting for your cause?




https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/how-to ... w-to-join/


Contact the IDF Enlistment Center directly: [email protected]




Perhaps we can come up with a chickenhawks list for those who want a fight but are too cowardly to their own fighting.
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by a fan »

youthathletics wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 2:08 pm
a fan wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 1:38 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 1:33 pm
a fan wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 1:18 pm
Brooklyn wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 12:58 pm Pathetic. Funny how so many bigoted types hate democracy. But it's perfectly ok to invade a country, steal the land, kill off people, and then to pretend you're doing them a favor.
:lol: Hope the Forum is paying close attention to the game Brookie is playing. I'm not talking to Brookie anymore: he's quoting chapter and verse of the ProPalestinianNutJobGospel without thinking.

All you have to do is ask them the right questions. They'll get frustrated, let their guard down, and FINALLY tell you that they think the Jewish people should be driven out of Israel. He's trying to hide what he really thinks.

Brookie, hilariously, thinks the Jewish people "Stole" Israel.......yet he has no problem living on Sioux Land the he stole from them.

Heard this nonsense 1,000 times.

They call it BAMN: by any means necessary. Have a website....the whole deal.
Yeah if one can take a step back this stuff is hilarious. Suddenly the MAGAs are tight with the #babyblooddrinkerHollywoodelitebankercabal And the academics, faux intellectuals in love with the Avacado and abstraction brunch on the SOHO/Greenwich Village, lacking real life experience are embracing dictator/fascists, human rights stomping monsters who betray every human ideal otherwise espoused but not yet demonstrated working understanding of.

It’s stridency + fear/insecurity + anchoring + narrative fallacy in a mad magazine strip.
Yep. That's a pretty good summary. And as you can see here on the Forum---it's about making themselves feel good. They have no actual interest in changing the outcome.
I think for brook, its about the dopamine hit he gets when he logs in and sees someone replied to him. Then he further polarizes the conversation for continual engagement....add in the use of another username, and all the other forums he participates in, and you have a full days work. 8-)
Yep.

He's just frustrated becuase I lived with the far left for 20 years, and have seen all the same language----it's like talking to someone who watches FoxNews. All the 'tells' are there, betraying their actual thoughts.

One of BAMNS biggest ploys is to name obscure Palestinians or Israelis to pretend that they have a deep understanding of the conflict.

Yet the second you scratch that patina-----you find out they just want the Jewish people out of the region, and nothing else will do.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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This is the part I don't get, and can't stand: why hasn't Israel worked to remove Hamas and violence by simply making Gaza a great place to live?

You can keep the guns and fences......but why not work with the UN and the US to make Gaza awesome? What's the harm?
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Brooklyn »



Hamas is a product of what psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton coined as “atrocity-producing situations.” It has been under blockade since 2007. Prior to the current war, more than 60 percent of Gazans were food insecure, almost 50 percent were unemployed and 95 percent were without safe drinking water, with an average of 11 hours per day of electricity. Unsurprisingly, major human rights organizations have called Gaza an open-air prison or an apartheid state.

... Over 2,000 children have been killed under Israeli bombing since Oct. 7, more than four times the number of children that died in Ukraine from the start of the war to Aug. 22.




The world united in its efforts to end Apartheid in South Africa. By contrast, pro genocide Islamophobes on this forum happily applaud modern day Apartheid in Israel.

It's a pity that they are so blind due to their hate and cannot see the truth about it all.
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by youthathletics »

a fan wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 2:33 pm
This is the part I don't get, and can't stand: why hasn't Israel worked to remove Hamas and violence by simply making Gaza a great place to live?

You can keep the guns and fences......but why not work with the UN and the US to make Gaza awesome? What's the harm?
Easy.....forgiveness is not part of radical sects of religion, only vengeance.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by OCanada »

youthathletics wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 4:58 pm
a fan wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 2:33 pm
This is the part I don't get, and can't stand: why hasn't Israel worked to remove Hamas and violence by simply making Gaza a great place to live?

You can keep the guns and fences......but why not work with the UN and the US to make Gaza awesome? What's the harm?
Easy.....forgiveness is not part of radical sects of religion, only vengeance.

Repeat after me: Israel does not want a two state solution. Why anyone at this point would cling to that myth is beyond me.

I scanned this carefully for familiar names. I doubt anyone hear might know any but in case:
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Last edited by OCanada on Tue Oct 24, 2023 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by OCanada »

Brooklyn wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 1:53 pm
a fan wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 1:18 pm
Brooklyn wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 12:58 pm Pathetic. Funny how so many bigoted types hate democracy. But it's perfectly ok to invade a country, steal the land, kill off people, and then to pretend you're doing them a favor.
:lol: Hope the Forum is paying close attention to the game Brookie is playing. I'm not talking to Brookie anymore: he's quoting chapter and verse of the ProPalestinianNutJobGospel without thinking.

All you have to do is ask them the right questions. They'll get frustrated, let their guard down, and FINALLY tell you that they think the Jewish people should be driven out of Israel. He's trying to hide what he really thinks.

Brookie, hilariously, thinks the Jewish people "Stole" Israel.......yet he has no problem living on Sioux Land the he stole from them.

Heard this nonsense 1,000 times.

They call it BAMN: by any means necessary. Have a website....the whole deal.

"Stole from Sioux"

Hahahahahaha!!!! ~ you missed the fact that I've called for the freeing of Leonard Peltier (and previously called for the conviction of the FBI criminals who framed him), was associated with AIM, and knew Clyde Bellecourt before he passed away about a year ago.

Now I'm really laughing at you.

Pardon me while I continue to laugh ....
Peltier would have been freed by Clinton, he is almost assuredly innocent, but Indian Country would not publicly support it. Still don’t i believe. Significant they have not supported it
Last edited by OCanada on Tue Oct 24, 2023 7:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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How George W. Bush Helped Hamas Come to Power
It was in January 2006 that the Palestinian territories held what turned out to be their last parliamentary elections. Hamas won a bare plurality of votes (44 percent to the more moderate Fatah party’s 41 percent) but, given the electoral system, a strong majority of seats (74 to 45). Neither party was keen on sharing power. Fighting broke out between the two. When a unity government was finally formed in June 2007, Hamas broke the deal, started murdering Fatah members, and, in the end, took total control of the Gaza Strip. Those who weren’t killed fled to the West Bank, and the territories have remained split ever since.

In other words, Hamas’ absolute rule of Gaza is not what the Palestinians voted for back in 2006. In fact, since the median age of Gazans is 18, half of Hamas’ subjects weren’t even born when the election took place. Since they have known no alternative, have absorbed little information but Hamas propaganda, and have witnessed periodic outbursts of violent conflict with Israel throughout their lives, it is impossible to know what they really think about their rulers.
[snip]
Bush entered his second term, in January 2005, convinced that his mission was to spread democracy around the world. He assumed that democracy was the natural state of humanity: Once a dictator was toppled and the people could vote for leaders in elections, freedom and liberty would bloom forth. For a moment, it looked like he might be right: The world was witnessing the Orange Revolution in Ukraine, the Cedar Revolution in Lebanon, the first parliamentary elections in post-Saddam Iraq. More pertinent, the Palestinian National Authority held its first election, and Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah party—which had recognized Israel’s right to exist and supported negotiations for a two-state solution—won handily.

Around this time, Israel was withdrawing from the Gaza Strip—not just pulling out troops, but evicting some 8,000 Jewish settlers (most of whom were paid to resettle in the West Bank). Suddenly there was a vacuum of local authority. Bush thought democracy would fill a vacuum, so he urged the Palestinian Authority to hold parliamentary elections.

One problem, though: Radical parties—notably Hamas and Islamic Jihad, which had boycotted the 2005 presidential election—decided to compete in the 2006 parliamentary contests.

Six weeks before these elections, Dennis Ross was on one of his frequent trips to the Middle East. As the Middle East envoy for Presidents Bill Clinton and George H.W. Bush, Ross had more experience negotiating with Israelis and Palestinians than any American. He was no longer in the U.S. government, but he knew all the relevant players.

Ross was leery about holding elections. He thought that if there were elections, militias such as Hamas should be banned from participating; they should have to choose between joining the system and waging violence against it—they shouldn’t be allowed to have it both ways.

Members of Fatah, fearful that Hamas might win, approached Ross and asked if he could quietly urge the Israelis to block the election. An odd alignment was taking shape. “What’s wrong with this picture?” Ross asked himself. Fatah and Israel were against holding the elections; Hamas and President Bush were in favor.

Ross communicated all this to Robert Zoellick, a former colleague from Bush Sr.’s days who was now deputy secretary of state. Like Ross, Zoellick worried the election could be disastrous. He urged his boss, Bush Jr.’s secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, to urge Israelis to do some things to improve Fatah’s prospects—for instance, to ease up on border crossings in the Palestinian territories and let Abbas take credit for the gesture.

Rice refused, saying that the U.S. shouldn’t put its thumb on the scales. A former hardheaded adherent of realpolitik, Rice had recently adopted Bush’s view of the world: She thought, or at least acted as if, elections were a magic potion for curing political ills and that the U.S., having delivered or blessed them, should sit back and let the historical forces flow naturally.

To her (and most American observers’) surprise, Hamas won. It proved to be only the first yank in the unraveling of the Bush-Rice dogma. Civil war broke out between Hamas and Fatah, leading eventually to Fatah’s expulsion from Gaza, Hamas’ total dictatorship there, and a resumption of rocket fire from the enclave into Israel—prompting the Israeli blockade on Gaza’s northern border (which Egypt, whose leaders hated and feared Hamas as well, reinforced with a blockade on the southern border). At the same time, Hezbollah rained missiles down on Israel from southern Lebanon, prompting a war—which could reignite soon.
..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by OCanada »

youthathletics wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 4:58 pm
a fan wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 2:33 pm
This is the part I don't get, and can't stand: why hasn't Israel worked to remove Hamas and violence by simply making Gaza a great place to live?

You can keep the guns and fences......but why not work with the UN and the US to make Gaza awesome? What's the harm?
Easy.....forgiveness is not part of radical sects of religion, only vengeance.
Radical sects are more common than many think. We have them. The answer to the question is neither side is willing to work with the other. Both sides leaders want all the land so there is no common ground. There is an audience forcit in many Israelis and Palestinians
Last edited by OCanada on Tue Oct 24, 2023 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by a fan »

OCanada wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:13 pm
youthathletics wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 4:58 pm
a fan wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 2:33 pm
This is the part I don't get, and can't stand: why hasn't Israel worked to remove Hamas and violence by simply making Gaza a great place to live?

You can keep the guns and fences......but why not work with the UN and the US to make Gaza awesome? What's the harm?
Easy.....forgiveness is not part of radical sects of religion, only vengeance.

Repeat after me: Israel does not want a two state solution.
Yes. They do. So do the Palestinians.

The problem is that the actual idiots in charge of both RightWingIsrael and Hamas don't. It's just like America: a small faction of moronic nutjobs are calling the shots....those of in the middle have no say, and will never get wise, reasonable governance.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by OCanada »

a fan wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 11:20 pm
OCanada wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:13 pm
youthathletics wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 4:58 pm
a fan wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 2:33 pm
This is the part I don't get, and can't stand: why hasn't Israel worked to remove Hamas and violence by simply making Gaza a great place to live?

You can keep the guns and fences......but why not work with the UN and the US to make Gaza awesome? What's the harm?
Easy.....forgiveness is not part of radical sects of religion, only vengeance.

Repeat after me: Israel does not want a two state solution.
Yes. They do. So do the Palestinians.

The problem is that the actual idiots in charge of both RightWingIsrael and Hamas don't. It's just like America: a small faction of moronic nutjobs are calling the shots....those of in the middle have no say, and will never get wise, reasonable governance.
Genersl Effi Eitam

“The western part of Eretz Israel from the Mediterranean to the Jordan; that is the Jewish people’s private space. “ In that space only Jews would be allowed to rule. The notion of “ private space” really developed about 100 years ago

Those ideas have been percolating for decades and has tge support of Israelis.

Haaretz in 2019 published poll results. 72% of Jews favored annexing all or a portion of Occupied Territories. 60% of the pro annexation supporters would not allow inhabitants any civil rights at all.

You might consider the original zionists writings. David Ben Gurion in his diaries addresses the issue. So did others from the sabra generation the American view of Israel has been molded by the american press and hardly been even handed or objective.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Brooklyn »

It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

Charles Francis "Socker" Coe, Esq
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by cradleandshoot »

a fan wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 2:33 pm
This is the part I don't get, and can't stand: why hasn't Israel worked to remove Hamas and violence by simply making Gaza a great place to live?

You can keep the guns and fences......but why not work with the UN and the US to make Gaza awesome? What's the harm?
Those tens of thousands of rockets smuggled in from Iran become problematic. Maybe your Iranian friends should stop supplying Hamas with weapons of mass destruction. That thought ever crossed your mind?? :roll: Gaza should be a world class resort. There are folks that don't ever want that to happen. Those folks would be your Iranian friends.
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Brooklyn »

^Such reports of arming them coming only from Israel and Washington, DC. Iran says it does not arm Hamas. Maybe the pro war crowd should present evidence of their claims instead of merely repeating them.

Iran's position on the current events in Gaza:

https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/490494 ... e-Gaza-war


"The senior Iranian officials have openly supported the Palestinians’ struggle against the Israeli occupation and violence for more than four decades. Iran also praised the Operation Al-Aqsa Storm by Hamas against Israel inside the occupied territories on October 7. However, the Islamic Republic has dismissed linking the Storm operation to Iran as non-sensical.

... The Leader {Ayatollah Khamenei}, upon his final point on October 10, stressed the “nonsense” that has been aired by the Zionists and their supporters, which claim “Iran is behind this move (Storm operation).”




more at link
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by a fan »

cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 12:03 pm
a fan wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 2:33 pm
This is the part I don't get, and can't stand: why hasn't Israel worked to remove Hamas and violence by simply making Gaza a great place to live?

You can keep the guns and fences......but why not work with the UN and the US to make Gaza awesome? What's the harm?
Those tens of thousands of rockets smuggled in from Iran become problematic. Maybe your Iranian friends should stop supplying Hamas with weapons of mass destruction. That thought ever crossed your mind?? :roll: Gaza should be a world class resort. There are folks that don't ever want that to happen. Those folks would be your Iranian friends.
The rockets aren't hitting Gaza, which is where I suggest the infrastructure boom take place.

It's the only solution I can come up with, Cradle: make Gaza a nice place to live, diminishing Hamas' power.

Do you have any better ideas?
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by cradleandshoot »

a fan wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 12:41 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 12:03 pm
a fan wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 2:33 pm
This is the part I don't get, and can't stand: why hasn't Israel worked to remove Hamas and violence by simply making Gaza a great place to live?

You can keep the guns and fences......but why not work with the UN and the US to make Gaza awesome? What's the harm?
Those tens of thousands of rockets smuggled in from Iran become problematic. Maybe your Iranian friends should stop supplying Hamas with weapons of mass destruction. That thought ever crossed your mind?? :roll: Gaza should be a world class resort. There are folks that don't ever want that to happen. Those folks would be your Iranian friends.
The rockets aren't hitting Gaza, which is where I suggest the infrastructure boom take place.

It's the only solution I can come up with, Cradle: make Gaza a nice place to live, diminishing Hamas' power.

Do you have any better ideas?
We have a failure to communicate here. Those 10s of thousands of rockets have been smuggled into Gaza to be launched into Israel. I agree if no other country wants to smuggle rockets into Gaza and Israel is no longer threatened by rocket attacks originating from inside Gaza the opportunities for Gaza would be off the charts. The only better idea I have starts with dismantling the ability to re-arm with rockets the Hamas terrorists and purge them from Gaza. Until that day happens the status quo will remain. IMO this asinine attack by Hamas is a shoot your wad type of event. Poker terminology would tell me they are going all in hoping to win something.
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 12:51 pm The only better idea I have starts with dismantling the ability to re-arm with rockets the Hamas terrorists and purge them from Gaza. Until that day happens the status quo will remain.
What you're asking is impossible: you're asking for no more arms to be made anywhere in the world. That's never going to happen.

You have to get rid of the key reason why Hamas has any influence: Gaza conditions are horrible. Fix that, and you fix a big reason why they're hitting Israel.

Just my opinion. Turning Gaza into a pile of rubble will make things worse, not better.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by youthathletics »

A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
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