Israel and West Bank Settlements

[admin]

b'lyn, youre...

Baducchi, no personal attacks.

[Kismet]

Some takeaways from today's shoot-down of multiple Iranian supplied cruise missiles & drones, fired from W Yemen by Houthi rebels, by the USS Carney operating in the Red Sea.

https://news.usni.org/2023/10/19/u-s-de ... s-pentagon

-- the 2 largest ships of the Baatan amphib group(ARG) had been operating in the Persian Gulf. They departed the Gulf & were last reported in the Red Sea. It was surprising that they had no escorts to protect them from air attack.
-- there is speculation that they will either transit Suez & join the Ford strike group currently in the E Med near Israel, or they might pull into the S Israel port of Eliat (accessible from the Red Sea) & offload the 26th MEU (Marine Expeditionary Unit) there.
-- the Carney is one of our oldest destroyers. She is one of our 4 destroyers homeported in Rota, Spain for Euro ballistic missile defense. She was not reported as part of the Ford strike group. She just transited Suez into the Red Sea on Wed, just in time to be in range to bring down those targets over the Red Sea, while the Baatan ARG was in transit, within range.
-- given the range of the Houthi weapons vs the distance from the launch point in W Yemen to potential targets in Israel, it's not unreasonable speculation to wonder if the unescorted Baatan ARG was their target.
-- it only required SM-2 missiles to bring down these targets. The SM-2 is the least capable standard missile we deploy. All our destroyers & cruisers all carry the SM-3 &/or SM-6 longer range missiles capable of ballistic missile defense.
-- when the Ike joins the Ford we'll have 8 destroyers & cruisers in the E Med + however many of our other 4 Rota based destroyers join the Carney.
-- The command ship USS Mount Whitney just departed homeport of Gaeta, Italy, with the Commander 6th Fleet & battle staff embarked, to join the growing strike group in the E Med. I think the last time this happened was in 2011 for Libyan operations.
-- this is the largest naval force in the Med in my recent memory.
-- Israel could be targeted by Iran & proxies along multiple axes, from N to S.

Why in the world would US Navy send a MEU (2,000 marines plus air support/transport assets) into the Red Sea without anti-missile Destroyer or Cruiser escort? or did I miss something? Perhaps air cover from Ford carrier group and other land-based USAF aircraft. I read that USA struck militia targets in Syria and Iraq yesterday in response to drone strikes the day before.
USS Carney now in the Eastern Med and is part of the Ford task Group.

On Friday, two American hostages, a mother and her daughter, are being released by Hamas, according to a person familiar with the negotiations and a diplomatic source.

The two have been handed over to the Red Cross and are “on their way out,” the source familiar with negotiations said. They are being released on “humanitarian grounds” because the mother is in poor health, the same source said.

It is unclear whether they will leave Gaza into Egypt or Israel.

It is the result of the negotiations between Qatar and Hamas that started after Hamas abducted around 200 people from Israel on October 7.

[Brooklyn]

They're doing well?

As I mentioned before, Israel claims to be a democracy and its government functions because of our tax dollars. Make it a real democracy by having a one state solution.

[Baducchi]

They're doing well?

As I mentioned before, Israel claims to be a democracy and its government functions because of our tax dollars. Make it a real democracy by having a one state solution.

another lie. the israeli government doesn't function because of US tax dollars. the israeli economy is excellent. israel is thriving economically. the israeli military is improved because of the us' support. the us sends money and weapons to israel. they're military partners. the money goes directly to israel *and america's* security. hamas, hezbollah, and the rest hate america like they hate israel. these are fundamentalist muslim terrorist groups. they hate the west. so israel and the us work together. partners against our shared worst enemies. israel is an american partner, not a dependent.

why not answer his question? there are several palestinian refugee camps in lebanon. been there for many years. for the palestinians, no path towards being lebanese citizenship, severe restrictions, banned from employment, extreme poverty, fenced in and can only go in and out with the permission of the lebanese military. a seemingly hopeless situation. (people, this sound familiar.) again, in lebanon. these are their fellow arabs. so, brooklyn, "They're doing well?" why not answer natty's question? let me help you. they're not. theyre really not. so Natty's follow-up question might be, "Why? Why aren't the Lebanese welcoming the Palestinians into Lebanonese?" brooklyn, why? this is in lebanon. not israel, lebanon. the lebonese have full jurisdiction to do whatever they want. and they choose to do something extraordinarily similar to what the Jews are doing in Israel. brooklyn, why?...

[Brooklyn]

I have already answered the question. Perhaps if you could set aside your emotionalism and act rationally, you would have seen that I said 6 million have gone elsewhere. There is no further need or "justification" for people leaving. Palestine is their land. They need to stay and the government of Israel needs to accommodate them like a true democracy does.

And yes, take away all those USA dollars and the economy would fall apart. Everybody knows it.

[Baducchi]

I have already answered the question. Perhaps if you could set aside your emotionalism and act rationally, you would have seen that I said 6 million have gone elsewhere. There is no further need or "justification" for people leaving. Palestine is their land. They need to stay and the government of Israel needs to accommodate them like a true democracy does.

And yes, take away all those USA dollars and the economy would fall apart. Everybody knows it.

first of all, 300,000 left Israel. 75 years later, generations later that number is in the millions. 6 million did not leave israel. that's beyond silly. and that has nothing to do with my question. my question is, why do the lebanese refugee camps look all but exactly like the israeli refugee camps? all but the exact same treatment of the palestinians. why aren't you insisting that the lebanese government needs to accommodate the palestinians? Mistreatment is mistreatment, no? and, more than this, why are the lebanese doing this? do they also hate the palestinians?

In 2022, israel's gdp was 501 billion U.S. dollars. for a country the size of nj and a population under 10 million, that's pretty impressive. you're wrong.

[Brooklyn]

It is not up to Lebanon to fix the problem created by Israel.

GDP at $501 billion? If true, more than half has come from the USA:


https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countr ... -to-israel


Biden wants another $100 billion with half of that going to Ukraine. Your tax dollars go to create this:





as well as to provide for Israel's abortions. Meanwhile, Americans go without healthcare and other needed essential services. How can anyone defend any of this political idiocy?

[Baducchi]

It is not up to Lebanon to fix the problem created by Israel. GDP at $501 billion? If true, more than half has come from the USA:
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countr ... -to-israel Biden wants another $100 billion with half of that going to Ukraine. Your tax dollars go to create this:
as well as to provide for Israel's abortions. Meanwhile, Americans go without healthcare and other needed essential services. How can anyone defend any of this political idiocy?

the us has given Israel $260 Billion *since World War II*. in the 21st century, the US has given Israel $5B or less annually. consistently it's been 2-3 billion. all of it military. israel's gdp is $501 billion annually. Not since WW2. more than half of their gdp has not come from the us. that is a ridiculous statement. israel gets $2-3B. Their gdp is $501B and growing rapidly. (their future is tech, not oil. smart.) you're wrong. you consistently dump on israel in a strange way and consistently you're wrong.

as well as to provide for Israel's abortions. Meanwhile, Americans go without healthcare and other needed essential services. How can anyone defend any of this political idiocy?"

great. the us healthcare system is also israel's fault. great. b'lyn, if i blamed most everything wrong on the blacks, i would justly be called a racist. most everything wrong on gays, a homophobe. what would you call a person who blames everything wrong on israeli jews?

[MDlaxfan76]

boy, those facts are stubborn things.

[Brooklyn]

the us healthcare system is also israel's fault

You said it, not me.


Anyway, if you're so hellbent on having another war there, go ahead and enlist. Please be sure to send us a picture postcard of your adventures.

[Brooklyn]

‘Not In Our Name!’ Hundreds Arrested at US Capitol as Jewish-Led Protest Demands Gaza Ceasefire
"Ceasefire is the first step to stop the ongoing genocide by the Israeli military of the over 2 million Palestinians in besieged Gaza," asserted Jewish Voice for Peace.


https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2023/10/19 ... ceasefire/


Hundreds of Jewish Americans and allies were arrested at the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday during a protest demanding members of Congress push Israel for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, where nearly 3,500 Palestinians have been killed over 12 days of relentless Israeli bombardment.

Thousands of protesters led by members of Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP), IfNotNow, Jews for Racial and Economic Justice (JFREJ), and other groups rallied on the Capitol grounds and inside the building, where hundreds of people took part in a sit-in.


Their chanted slogans—including “not in our name” and “ceasefire now”—resounded thunderously under the Capitol Rotunda, while at other times they clapped their hands and sang with solemn determination in Hebrew.

“We’re here to say: not in our names, and never again,” JVP declared. “And we’ll continue our civil disobedience until Congress calls for a ceasefire in Gaza, or until they force us to leave.”



Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib
@RepRashida
Thank you to our Jewish allies from across the country who joined in solidarity to call for a #CeasefireNOW.

Chanting “Not in Our Name.”
Quote
#StopCopCity
@ChuckModi1
·
Oct 18
BREAKING: Jewish protesters for a #FreePalestine flood rotunda of Canon Building demanding CeaseFire chanting NOT IN OUR NAME!”



“Ceasefire is the first step to stop the ongoing genocide by the Israeli military of the over 2 million Palestinians in besieged Gaza, unable to leave,” the group continued. “In the past week, over 3,000 Palestinians, including 1,000 children, were murdered by Israeli and U.S. bombs. Over 1 million people are displaced. We have the power to stop this violence.”

“What we know from past Israeli state atrocities against Palestinians is that the bombs only stop once there is a sufficient mass outcry from the international community,” JVP added. “It’s on us to build that outcry—as fast as we possibly can.”


https://twitter.com/medeabenjamin/statu ... asefire%2F

Speaking outside the Capitol, U.S. Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.)—the only Palestinian American in Congress—said that “the majority of Americans are literally against oppression.”

“They are,” she insisted. “They are against occupation. They are against human rights violations. If you just tell them the truth, they will be on our side. So we have to speak the truth.”



Justice Democrats
@justicedems
BREAKING: One of the most powerful speeches ever heard on the Washington Mall by
@RashidaTlaib
warning President Biden and Democrats about their rejection of Palestinian lives and calling for a ceasefire with
@jvplive
and
@IfNotNowOrg
.

https://twitter.com/justicedems/status/ ... asefire%2F




Wednesday’s protest and arrests followed a string of Jewish-led peace demonstrations across the nation, including two major rallies in Washington, D.C. IfNotNow’s website lists many events planned in cities around the country in the coming days.

“The Israeli military is preparing for a massive ground invasion of Gaza. Israeli and American leaders are dehumanizing Palestinians with vitriolic rhetoric that calls to mind the most hysterical days of… [the] War on Terror,” JVP said Wednesday. “We know where this will lead: genocide.”

“Many of us are mourning our Israeli and Palestinian friends and loved ones,” the group continued. “We are in pain and grief, trying to process a week of horrific violence that has left so many that we know injured, traumatized, kidnapped, or killed.”

“But we refuse to let our grief be weaponized to justify the murder of more Palestinians,” JVP added. “As American Jews, we demand a ceasefire now. No genocide in our name.”

“Many of us are mourning our Israeli and Palestinian friends and loved ones,” the group continued. “We are in pain and grief, trying to process a week of horrific violence that has left so many that we know injured, traumatized, kidnapped, or killed.”

“But we refuse to let our grief be weaponized to justify the murder of more Palestinians,” JVP added. “As American Jews, we demand a ceasefire now. No genocide in our name.”




That's how real Jews and real Americans think.

Tikkun olam to all ...

[old salt]

Some takeaways from today's shoot-down of multiple Iranian supplied cruise missiles & drones, fired from W Yemen by Houthi rebels, by the USS Carney operating in the Red Sea.

https://news.usni.org/2023/10/19/u-s-de ... s-pentagon

-- the 2 largest ships of the Baatan amphib group(ARG) had been operating in the Persian Gulf. They departed the Gulf & were last reported in the Red Sea. It was surprising that they had no escorts to protect them from air attack.
-- there is speculation that they will either transit Suez & join the Ford strike group currently in the E Med near Israel, or they might pull into the S Israel port of Eliat (accessible from the Red Sea) & offload the 26th MEU (Marine Expeditionary Unit) there.
-- the Carney is one of our oldest destroyers. She is one of our 4 destroyers homeported in Rota, Spain for Euro ballistic missile defense. She was not reported as part of the Ford strike group. She just transited Suez into the Red Sea on Wed, just in time to be in range to bring down those targets over the Red Sea, while the Baatan ARG was in transit, within range.
-- given the range of the Houthi weapons vs the distance from the launch point in W Yemen to potential targets in Israel, it's not unreasonable speculation to wonder if the unescorted Baatan ARG was their target.
-- it only required SM-2 missiles to bring down these targets. The SM-2 is the least capable standard missile we deploy. All our destroyers & cruisers all carry the SM-3 &/or SM-6 longer range missiles capable of ballistic missile defense.
-- when the Ike joins the Ford we'll have 8 destroyers & cruisers in the E Med + however many of our other 4 Rota based destroyers join the Carney.
-- The command ship USS Mount Whitney just departed homeport of Gaeta, Italy, with the Commander 6th Fleet & battle staff embarked, to join the growing strike group in the E Med. I think the last time this happened was in 2011 for Libyan operations.
-- this is the largest naval force in the Med in my recent memory.
-- Israel could be targeted by Iran & proxies along multiple axes, from N to S.

Why in the world would US Navy send a MEU (2,000 marines plus air support/transport assets) into the Red Sea without anti-missile Destroyer or Cruiser escort? or did I miss something? Perhaps air cover from Ford carrier group and other land-based USAF aircraft. I read that USA struck militia targets in Syria and Iraq yesterday in response to drone strikes the day before.
USS Carney now in the Eastern Med and is part of the Ford task Group.

What's your source that the Carney is now in the Med with the Ford ? They were in the Red Sea yesterday, far enough S to intercept multiple targets shortly after launch from Yemen.
ARG's with embarked MEU's often sail without escorts, depending on the threat. This was not a full ARG/MEU. 1/3 stayed behind in the Med.
Here's an update on yesterday's engagement :
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/20/politics ... index.html
Incident involving US warship intercepting missiles near Yemen lasted 9 hours

A US warship that intercepted drones and missiles near the coast of Yemen on Thursday encountered a larger and more sustained barrage than was previously known, shooting down 4 cruise missiles and 15 drones over a period of 9 hours, according to a US official familiar with the situation.

The USS Carney, an Arleigh-Burke class destroyer that traversed the Suez Canal heading south on Wednesday, intercepted the missiles and drones as they were heading north along the Red Sea. Their trajectory left little doubt that the projectiles were headed for Israel, the official said, a clearer assessment than the Pentagon’s initial take.

A sustained barrage of drones and missiles targeting Israel from far outside the Gaza conflict is one of a series of worrying signs that the war risks escalating beyond the borders of the coastal enclave.

On Thursday, Pentagon press secretary Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder said the missiles were fired by Iranian-backed Houthi forces in Yemen and were launched “potentially towards targets in Israel.” At the briefing, ...three land-attack cruise missiles and “several” drones.

Some of the projectiles were traveling at altitudes that made them a potential risk to commercial aviation when they were intercepted, the US official said. The drones and missiles were intercepted with SM-2 surface-to-air missiles launched from the USS Carney.

US interceptions of Houthi launches are exceedingly rare, making the timing of this incident, as tensions rise in Israel, more significant. In October 2016, the USS Mason deployed countermeasures to stop an attempted attack in the Red Sea targeting the Navy destroyer and other ships nearby. In response, the US fired sea-launched cruise missiles at Houthi radar facilities in Yemen.

Info on Houthi missiles in Yemen.
https://www.iiss.org/online-analysis/mi ... nd-tehran/

[get it to x]

I have already answered the question. Perhaps if you could set aside your emotionalism and act rationally, you would have seen that I said 6 million have gone elsewhere. There is no further need or "justification" for people leaving. Palestine is their land. They need to stay and the government of Israel needs to accommodate them like a true democracy does.

And yes, take away all those USA dollars and the economy would fall apart. Everybody knows it.

The Jewish people captured Jerusalem around 1000 bc. That’s about 1500 years pre-Islam. Israel would be happy to give the Palestinians their own state, provided they stop attacking Israel.

Ask yourself this question. What would happen if Gazans put aside their weapons? Now ask yourself what would happen if Israel gave up their weapons?

[old salt]

Some takeaways from today's shoot-down of multiple Iranian supplied cruise missiles & drones, fired from W Yemen by Houthi rebels, by the USS Carney operating in the Red Sea.

https://news.usni.org/2023/10/19/u-s-de ... s-pentagon

-- the 2 largest ships of the Baatan amphib group(ARG) had been operating in the Persian Gulf. They departed the Gulf & were last reported in the Red Sea. It was surprising that they had no escorts to protect them from air attack.
-- there is speculation that they will either transit Suez & join the Ford strike group currently in the E Med near Israel, or they might pull into the S Israel port of Eliat (accessible from the Red Sea) & offload the 26th MEU (Marine Expeditionary Unit) there.
-- the Carney is one of our oldest destroyers. She is one of our 4 destroyers homeported in Rota, Spain for Euro ballistic missile defense. She was not reported as part of the Ford strike group. She just transited Suez into the Red Sea on Wed, just in time to be in range to bring down those targets over the Red Sea, while the Baatan ARG was in transit, within range.
-- given the range of the Houthi weapons vs the distance from the launch point in W Yemen to potential targets in Israel, it's not unreasonable speculation to wonder if the unescorted Baatan ARG was their target.
-- it only required SM-2 missiles to bring down these targets. The SM-2 is the least capable standard missile we deploy. All our destroyers & cruisers all carry the SM-3 &/or SM-6 longer range missiles capable of ballistic missile defense.
-- when the Ike joins the Ford we'll have 8 destroyers & cruisers in the E Med + however many of our other 4 Rota based destroyers join the Carney.
-- The command ship USS Mount Whitney just departed homeport of Gaeta, Italy, with the Commander 6th Fleet & battle staff embarked, to join the growing strike group in the E Med. I think the last time this happened was in 2011 for Libyan operations.
-- this is the largest naval force in the Med in my recent memory.
-- Israel could be targeted by Iran & proxies along multiple axes, from N to S.

Why in the world would US Navy send a MEU (2,000 marines plus air support/transport assets) into the Red Sea without anti-missile Destroyer or Cruiser escort? or did I miss something? Perhaps air cover from Ford carrier group and other land-based USAF aircraft. I read that USA struck militia targets in Syria and Iraq yesterday in response to drone strikes the day before.
USS Carney now in the Eastern Med and is part of the Ford task Group.

What's your source that the Carney is now in the Med with the Ford ? They were in the Red Sea yesterday, far enough S to intercept multiple targets shortly after launch from Yemen.
ARG's with embarked MEU's often sail without escorts, depending on the threat. This was not a full ARG/MEU. 1/3 stayed behind in the Med.
Here's an update on yesterday's engagement :
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/20/politics ... index.html
Incident involving US warship intercepting missiles near Yemen lasted 9 hours

A US warship that intercepted drones and missiles near the coast of Yemen on Thursday encountered a larger and more sustained barrage than was previously known, shooting down 4 cruise missiles and 15 drones over a period of 9 hours, according to a US official familiar with the situation.

The USS Carney, an Arleigh-Burke class destroyer that traversed the Suez Canal heading south on Wednesday, intercepted the missiles and drones as they were heading north along the Red Sea. Their trajectory left little doubt that the projectiles were headed for Israel, the official said, a clearer assessment than the Pentagon’s initial take.

A sustained barrage of drones and missiles targeting Israel from far outside the Gaza conflict is one of a series of worrying signs that the war risks escalating beyond the borders of the coastal enclave.

On Thursday, Pentagon press secretary Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder said the missiles were fired by Iranian-backed Houthi forces in Yemen and were launched “potentially towards targets in Israel.” At the briefing, ...three land-attack cruise missiles and “several” drones.

Some of the projectiles were traveling at altitudes that made them a potential risk to commercial aviation when they were intercepted, the US official said. The drones and missiles were intercepted with SM-2 surface-to-air missiles launched from the USS Carney.

US interceptions of Houthi launches are exceedingly rare, making the timing of this incident, as tensions rise in Israel, more significant. In October 2016, the USS Mason deployed countermeasures to stop an attempted attack in the Red Sea targeting the Navy destroyer and other ships nearby. In response, the US fired sea-launched cruise missiles at Houthi radar facilities in Yemen.

Info on Houthi missiles in Yemen.
https://www.iiss.org/online-analysis/mi ... nd-tehran/

More info :
https://abcnews.go.com/International/se ... =104147141
It is the first time in recent memory that a U.S. Navy ship in the Middle East has engaged missiles and drones that were not directly aimed at the vessel.

...brought down four cruise missiles and 14 drones launched by the Houthis, an update from the three missiles and eight drones reported earlier.

The preliminary U.S. assessment was that the USS Carney was not the target of any of the Houthi missiles or drones, according to multiple U.S. officials.

"We cannot say for certain what these missiles and drones were targeting but they were launched from Yemen heading north along the Red Sea potentially to targets in Israel," said Ryder who added that information about the engagements was still being processed.

It’s unclear from where the Houthi militia's missiles were fired but they were headed in a northerly direction, an official said.

Thursday's incident occurred during the early evening hours (local time) when the missiles and drones were detected moving northward above the waters of the Red Sea.

The missiles fired by the Houthis were engaged by SM2 missiles carried aboard the USS Carney, a U.S. official told ABC News. No information was released about what weapons platform aboard the Carney brought down the 8 drones.

Brig. Gen. Ryder told reporters that the intercepts had taken place over water and not land. No sailors aboard the ship were harmed according to a U.S. official.

The USS Carney is part of the USS Gerald R. Ford carrier strike group that was deployed to the eastern Mediterranean to deter Iran and Hezbollah...
The USS Carney had just transited into the Red Sea through the Suez Canal on Wednesday which is why the destroyer was still located in the northern stretch of that body of water that borders, Egypt, Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, and Yemen.

The Carney's shootdown of Houthi missiles opens up the possibility that the U.S. Navy may have to position more ships in the Red Sea if the U.S. commits to protecting Israel from a southern attack said Steve Ganyard, an ABC News contributor and a former Pentagon official.

"The larger concern is if Iran now considers U.S. ships fair game," said Ganyard. "Because if the Houthis shoot at a U.S. ship there will be little doubt that it would have been at Tehran’s direction."

"That said, there is nothing to suggest, no known reason to believe that Iran wants a fight with the U.S. and/or Israel," said Ganyard. "So, hopefully things calm down."

The USNI News weekly Fleet Tracker has not yet listed the Carney as a member of the Ford CSG. Carney is based in Rota SP. The other CG/DD's in the Ford CSG are based in E CONUS. Unknow if/when the Carney joined the Ford CSG & if/when Carney & the Baatan ARG (2/3) transited Suez back into the Med.

[old salt]

Why in the world would US Navy send a MEU (2,000 marines plus air support/transport assets) into the Red Sea without anti-missile Destroyer or Cruiser escort? or did I miss something?
USS Carney now in the Eastern Med and is part of the Ford task Group.

What's your source that the Carney is now in the Med with the Ford ?

Mystery solved about the whereabouts of the Carney. The USNI weekly Fleet Tracker has not been listing the Carney as part of the Ford CSG. However, I've found other cites as far back as July identifying Carney as part of the Ford CSG. She apparently joined the Ford CSG as or after they entered the Med.

This means that someone in the USN CoC had the foresight to detach the Carney from the Ford CSG & send her thru Suez on Wed into the N Red Sea on Thurs, just in time to intercept the cruise missiles & drones launched from Yemen. Unknown if that decision was made to provide air cover for the Baatan ARG's tranisit while within range of anti-ship launches from Yemen, or if they had intel or otherwise anticipated those launches from Yemen trageting Israel. I'd expect Carney (or a replacement DD) to remain in the N Red Sea as long as the threat of attack on Israel from Yemen persists.
Regardless -- BZ to whoever made that decision.

[Brooklyn]

The Jewish people captured Jerusalem around 1000 bc. That’s about 1500 years pre-Islam. Israel would be happy to give the Palestinians their own state, provided they stop attacking Israel.

Ask yourself this question. What would happen if Gazans put aside their weapons? Now ask yourself what would happen if Israel gave up their weapons?

Interestingly, Palestinians are descended of Canaanites from whom the lands were stolen by the Israelites (Judea & Samaria). When the land was stolen it never became exclusively Jewish. It became Israelite. Imagine that ~ "reclaiming" land they stole in the first place!

Put aside weapons? Good idea. But if we demanded that of them, they would turn it around and demand that we quash the 2d Amendment. Would any of our forum pro gun right wingers approve of that?

[cradleandshoot]

I have already answered the question. Perhaps if you could set aside your emotionalism and act rationally, you would have seen that I said 6 million have gone elsewhere. There is no further need or "justification" for people leaving. Palestine is their land. They need to stay and the government of Israel needs to accommodate them like a true democracy does.

And yes, take away all those USA dollars and the economy would fall apart. Everybody knows it.

The Jewish people captured Jerusalem around 1000 bc. That’s about 1500 years pre-Islam. Israel would be happy to give the Palestinians their own state, provided they stop attacking Israel.

Ask yourself this question. What would happen if Gazans put aside their weapons? Now ask yourself what would happen if Israel gave up their weapons?

What a wild observation. Those radical folks that don't even admit Israel has a right to exist. I bet most Palestinians would be more than happy to coexist in peace with Israel. Hamas will never accept that. They are more than happy to keep killing Jews and old men and women and children. IMO the Israelis won't launch a large scale assault on Gaza. I believe they will gather intell where the Hamas rats are hiding out and will use pinpoint airstrikes and strategic attacks to eradicate them. They have time on their side. Hamas is itching for a fight Israel shouldn't give them. Israel has to conduct this fight on their terms. Hamas can hide out in their ratholes and fall victim to what a classic siege will accomplish. When you run out of food and water you also run out on having the will to fight. It takes time but the Israelis are in no hurry. I have had a good chuckle from the morons in the US lamestream media. Everyday they breathlessly keep predicting the Israeli ground assault will happen at any moment. Lester Holt with his ballistic vest and helmet with the bright yellow letters saying PRESS. All I see is a bullseye for anyone with a sniper rifle. Aim center mass right between the E and the S. When your in a combat zone you don't want to stand out, you want to blend in. Ask any army medic why they don't wear those bright red crosses on their helmets. They don't want to stand out, their survival depends on blending in and being anonymous on the battlefield. Notice to Lester and you media folks, keep the vests and ditch the PRESS bullseye

FTR, everybody in the AO knows that these folks are members of the press.

[OCanada]

I have already answered the question. Perhaps if you could set aside your emotionalism and act rationally, you would have seen that I said 6 million have gone elsewhere. There is no further need or "justification" for people leaving. Palestine is their land. They need to stay and the government of Israel needs to accommodate them like a true democracy does.

And yes, take away all those USA dollars and the economy would fall apart. Everybody knows it.

The Jewish people captured Jerusalem around 1000 bc. That’s about 1500 years pre-Islam. Israel would be happy to give the Palestinians their own state, provided they stop attacking Israel.

Ask yourself this question. What would happen if Gazans put aside their weapons? Now ask yourself what would happen if Israel gave up their weapons?

I suggest you read the story of the Nakba. Also Israel has never wanted a two state solution. What % of the total land did the Palestinians occupy going into the UN vote amd what % do they control now. The goals of the 2 parties are irreconcilable. T E Lawrence knew it decades ago

https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2392 ... r-conflict

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holoc ... _the_Nakba

[Farfromgeneva]

It is not up to Lebanon to fix the problem created by Israel. GDP at $501 billion? If true, more than half has come from the USA:
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countr ... -to-israel Biden wants another $100 billion with half of that going to Ukraine. Your tax dollars go to create this:
as well as to provide for Israel's abortions. Meanwhile, Americans go without healthcare and other needed essential services. How can anyone defend any of this political idiocy?

the us has given Israel $260 Billion *since World War II*. in the 21st century, the US has given Israel $5B or less annually. consistently it's been 2-3 billion. all of it military. israel's gdp is $501 billion annually. Not since WW2. more than half of their gdp has not come from the us. that is a ridiculous statement. israel gets $2-3B. Their gdp is $501B and growing rapidly. (their future is tech, not oil. smart.) you're wrong. you consistently dump on israel in a strange way and consistently you're wrong.

as well as to provide for Israel's abortions. Meanwhile, Americans go without healthcare and other needed essential services. How can anyone defend any of this political idiocy?"

great. the us healthcare system is also israel's fault. great. b'lyn, if i blamed most everything wrong on the blacks, i would justly be called a racist. most everything wrong on gays, a homophobe. what would you call a person who blames everything wrong on israeli jews?

Well…the strategic technology and research sharing between countries is a form of “earned access” to IP that other countries don’t benefit from. So note as clear as either portray it. There’s a human and capital investment that isn’t a direct monetary transfer of substantial value and is unique.

[PizzaSnake]

Charming behavior. So glad we support this.

“Over the last year alone, 110,000 dunams, or 110 sq km (42 sq miles), was effectively annexed by settlers on herding outposts, he said. All the built-up settlement areas constructed since 1967 cover only 80 sq km.

It was also the biggest displacement of Palestinian Bedouins since 1972, when at least 5,000 – and perhaps as many as 20,000 – people were moved from the northern Sinai to make way for settlements, Shaul added.

Settlers and their political allies have celebrated this relatively new approach.

“One action that we’ve expanded over the years is the shepherding farms,” Ze’ev “Zambish” Hever, the secretary general of the settler organisation Amana, told a 2021 conference.

“Today they cover close to twice the land that the built-up communities cover … we understand the significance of the matter: see, it is a lot.”

Fcukers.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... -territory