Israel and West Bank Settlements

[Matnum PI]

I'm headed down there today... the comments are truly ridiculous.

Tagged you because of the number of Jews involved in this protest. Again, a strange thing. It's similar to second (or more) generation Mexicans agreeing with Trump that the borders need to be stronger to keep out the Mexican immigrants, etc. "They're not sending over their best, they're sending their rapists, murders, etc." A strange thing...

[Brooklyn]

I'm headed down there today... the comments are truly ridiculous.

Tagged you because of the number of Jews involved in this protest. Again, a strange thing. It's similar to second (or more) generation Mexicans agreeing with Trump that the borders need to be stronger to keep out the Mexican immigrants, etc. "They're not sending over their best, they're sending their rapists, murders, etc." A strange thing...

Strange? Not to me as I have known so many Jews over the years who think the same way. The quest for justice, for making this a better world, to do mitzvah (a good deed) every day, to serve an even hand to all ~ this is what a great many Jews live for. Had you been Jewish or grew up with so many like I did, you would know this is a part of their character. Contrary to what the news media tells you, the real victims have been the Palestinians all along. Thus, no surprise that so many stand up for the real victims of all this trouble in Israel.

[MDlaxfan76]

I'm headed down there today... the comments are truly ridiculous.

Tagged you because of the number of Jews involved in this protest. Again, a strange thing. It's similar to second (or more) generation Mexicans agreeing with Trump that the borders need to be stronger to keep out the Mexican immigrants, etc. "They're not sending over their best, they're sending their rapists, murders, etc." A strange thing...

Actually, I understand the dilemma many young progressive Jews feel about the conflict. Just was driving back from DC listening to NPR, roundtable of Jewish folks with various perspectives, including voices highly sympathetic to the Palestinians.

I'd call it empathy for the oppressed. Coming from a very good place.

And of course other voices which had a greater emphasis on security for Jews and how traumatic these events have been to have been so mercilessly and indiscriminately attacked for simply being there (didn't matter whether Jewish or Arab or Thai, much less the large # of Jews active in the peace and anti-occupation movement who were slaughtered...and children...merely to create terror).

What I gleaned is that there's a big difference with being angry at Israel's government and its policies of "occupation" and actually being anti-Jewish state.

[MDlaxfan76]

I'm headed down there today... the comments are truly ridiculous.

Tagged you because of the number of Jews involved in this protest. Again, a strange thing. It's similar to second (or more) generation Mexicans agreeing with Trump that the borders need to be stronger to keep out the Mexican immigrants, etc. "They're not sending over their best, they're sending their rapists, murders, etc." A strange thing...

Strange? Not to me as I have known so many Jews over the years who think the same way. The quest for justice, for making this a better world, to do mitzvah (a good deed) every day, to serve an even hand to all ~ this is what a great many Jews live for. Had you been Jewish or grew up with so many like I did, you would know this is a part of their character. Contrary to what the news media tells you, the real victims have been the Palestinians all along. Thus, no surprise that so many stand up for the real victims of all this trouble in Israel.

I was with you until you said "character", no, this is the teaching. And you really lose me in your last two sentences.
Way too absolutist.

Israeli professor today on NPR (lost his son and daughter-in-law in kibbutz near Gaza in the attack, grandson shielded by mother was wounded, not dead.) talked about the difference between Hamas and Palestinians...he's sent his children to Arab-Israeli schools, teaches Arab students, his doctor is Arab, etc...BUT, what Hamas did was a "pogrom"...the purposeful slaughter of civilians, not a military action, to create terror and simply because they could. With the declared purpose of eradication of all Jews. He talked about the overwhelming number of Muslims as peace-loving, that Islam is a religion of peace...but there are strains in the religion, like other religions, that have their roots in hate...Much more, but you get the point.

[Brooklyn]

As the Bible teaches, justice must first exist so that order can prevail. Without justice, there simply is no order.

~ Isaiah 59:8


Had there been any justice in Israel, Hamas would not have been created in 1987. That explains it all.

[Baducchi]

As the Bible teaches, justice must first exist so that order can prevail. Without justice, there simply is no order. ~ Isaiah 59:8 Had there been any justice in Israel, Hamas would not have been created in 1987. That explains it all.

said a different way, what happened last week is awful but... the israeli jews brought it upon themselves. hamas is just righting a wrong. b'lyn, youre a large piece of sh1t.

[Baducchi]

Israeli professor today on NPR (lost his son and daughter-in-law in kibbutz near Gaza in the attack, grandson shielded by mother was wounded, not dead.) talked about the difference between Hamas and Palestinians...he's sent his children to Arab-Israeli schools, teaches Arab students, his doctor is Arab, etc...BUT, what Hamas did was a "pogrom"...the purposeful slaughter of civilians, not a military action, to create terror and simply because they could. With the declared purpose of eradication of all Jews. He talked about the overwhelming number of Muslims as peace-loving, that Islam is a religion of peace...but there are strains in the religion, like other religions, that have their roots in hate...Much more, but you get the point.

yes. especially about the difference between the palestinians and hamas. hamas is commited to erasing israel from the map. not for anyhting they did. for who they are: jews. and, before anyone gets too happy. they also hate the west and americans. hamas is unquestionably rooted in hate, not freakin' justice.

[jhu72]

... so kill hamas all you want. Doesn't mean Palestinians as collateral damage is acceptable.

[Matnum PI]

I'd call it empathy for the oppressed. Coming from a very good place... What I gleaned is that there's a big difference with being angry at Israel's government and its policies of "occupation" and actually being anti-Jewish state.

Yes and yes. What you just wrote is nuanced, balanced. And many, many Jews feel the same. This includes staunch Zionists. The central issue is, Does Israel have the right to exist? And, for some, for many, the answer is either literally no or ostensibly no. (If the Jews can't defend themselves, protect themselves, there won't be an Israel. That translates to an ostensibly no.) For many Jews, especially college-aged Jews, far-left Jews, West Coast Jews, etc., there is little balance, little nuance. Just, Free Palestine. No recognition for what it means for Israel to remove all fences, all walls.

[MDlaxfan76]

I'd call it empathy for the oppressed. Coming from a very good place... What I gleaned is that there's a big difference with being angry at Israel's government and its policies of "occupation" and actually being anti-Jewish state.

Yes and yes. What you just wrote is nuanced, balanced. And many, many Jews feel the same. This includes staunch Zionists. The central issue is, Does Israel have the right to exist? And, for some, for many, the answer is either literally no or ostensibly no. (If the Jews can't defend themselves, protect themselves, there won't be an Israel. That translates to an ostensibly no.) For many Jews, especially college-aged Jews, far-left Jews, West Coast Jews, etc., there is little balance, little nuance. Just, Free Palestine. No recognition for what it means for Israel to remove all fences, all walls.

I have no doubt that's the case for some, including sizable #'s of young progressives...because of the Palestinian issue.

But those who know people with friends or family in Israel typically have a more nuanced perspective..."we" need Israel, but we also need justice for
Palestinians in order to have a sustainable peace.

I have other Jewish friends who say there will never be peace with the Palestinians, no hope, and F-them.

[MDlaxfan76]

... so kill hamas all you want. Doesn't mean Palestinians as collateral damage is acceptable.

of course, would that it were so easy, right.

150,000 Hamas operatives living within and ruling by force over 2.2 million.

[cradleandshoot]

I wonder if Biden had to dodge sniper fire ala HRC? The next question would be were those snipers theirs or ours?

[cradleandshoot]

... so kill hamas all you want. Doesn't mean Palestinians as collateral damage is acceptable.

of course, would that it were so easy, right.

150,000 Hamas operatives living within and ruling by force over 2.2 million.

Correct me If I'm wrong but didn't the Palestinians vote for Hamas to lead them? You thought voting Republican was problematic. It sounds like to me you get the leadership you vote for. It could be at this point in time that Palestinians are having buyers remorse.

[Matnum PI]

I have other Jewish friends who say there will never be peace with the Palestinians, no hope, and F-them.

They're being short-sighted. some things take time. some things take a lot of time. Peace between the Jews and Palestinians actually wouldn't take so much time. The situation isn't *so* different than Israel and their Arab neighbors. It's Hamas' role within their relationship that makes the solution trickier, more prolonged.

[Matnum PI]

... so kill hamas all you want. Doesn't mean Palestinians as collateral damage is acceptable.

of course, would that it were so easy, right.150,000 Hamas operatives living within and ruling by force over 2.2 million.

Yes. Hamas repeatedly firing rockets from residential areas into Tel Aviv, Israelis are intercepting the rockets but can't do it forever and... What are they supposed to do? This situation is far from simple. Israel isn't perfect but, for heaven's sake, give them some credit.

[cradleandshoot]

I have other Jewish friends who say there will never be peace with the Palestinians, no hope, and F-them.

They're being short-sighted. some things take time. some things take a lot of time. Peace between the Jews and Palestinians actually wouldn't take so much time. The situation isn't *so* different than Israel and their Arab neighbors. It's Hamas' role within their relationship that makes the solution trickier, more prolonged.

Except for that prickly little issue where some of the folks involved in the discussion would like to see the Jews go away. Hard to have a discussion about a two state nation when one side refuses the other sides right to exist. What does the UN say? They are the folks who gave the Jews their own nation.

[cradleandshoot]

I just read the Biden 3 ring circus blew the coverage of our special ops people in Israel. Who woulda thunk a photo op with them without blurring out their faces was industrial strength stupid?

[Kismet]

... so kill hamas all you want. Doesn't mean Palestinians as collateral damage is acceptable.

of course, would that it were so easy, right.

150,000 Hamas operatives living within and ruling by force over 2.2 million.

Correct me If I'm wrong but didn't the Palestinians vote for Hamas to lead them? You thought voting Republican was problematic. It sounds like to me you get the leadership you vote for. It could be at this point in time that Palestinians are having buyers remorse.

The elections you reference were in 2006. There has not been a new election since then because HAMAS doesn't want one.
Draw your own conclusions.

[cradleandshoot]

... so kill hamas all you want. Doesn't mean Palestinians as collateral damage is acceptable.

of course, would that it were so easy, right.

150,000 Hamas operatives living within and ruling by force over 2.2 million.

Correct me If I'm wrong but didn't the Palestinians vote for Hamas to lead them? You thought voting Republican was problematic. It sounds like to me you get the leadership you vote for. It could be at this point in time that Palestinians are having buyers remorse.

The elections you reference were in 2006. There has not been a new election since then because HAMAS doesn't want one.
Draw your own conclusions.

I already drew my conclusion. The Palestinian people voted for Hamas. That can only mean the Palestinian people were buying what Hamas was selling. What you are telling me is Hamas are a bunch of tyrants running a terrorist operation against Israel. They won't even respect the Palestinian peoples right to vote. What a way to run a railroad.

[jhu72]

I'm headed down there today... the comments are truly ridiculous.

Tagged you because of the number of Jews involved in this protest. Again, a strange thing. It's similar to second (or more) generation Mexicans agreeing with Trump that the borders need to be stronger to keep out the Mexican immigrants, etc. "They're not sending over their best, they're sending their rapists, murders, etc." A strange thing...

Actually, I understand the dilemma many young progressive Jews feel about the conflict. Just was driving back from DC listening to NPR, roundtable of Jewish folks with various perspectives, including voices highly sympathetic to the Palestinians.

I'd call it empathy for the oppressed. Coming from a very good place.

And of course other voices which had a greater emphasis on security for Jews and how traumatic these events have been to have been so mercilessly and indiscriminately attacked for simply being there (didn't matter whether Jewish or Arab or Thai, much less the large # of Jews active in the peace and anti-occupation movement who were slaughtered...and children...merely to create terror).

What I gleaned is that there's a big difference with being angry at Israel's government and its policies of "occupation" and actually being anti-Jewish state.

+1