Israel and West Bank Settlements

[Brooklyn]

So...obviously, "Islamic" terrorists regularly violate that particular passage in the Koran.
...As these Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists did as well...on purpose, specifically, civilians. All ages, genders, etc. Brutal murder.

Pretty sure there are strong prohibitions against murder in the Old Testament too.

While I'd agree that the Israeli government is not "innocent", I don't believe that as a policy matter the Israeli government nor Israeli citizens as a rule countenance or celebrate the intentional murder of civilians or any background.

There IS a moral difference.

IMO, that matters, though is not sufficient.

re Saddam, I'd never heard that rumor, but in our age of misinformation, disinformation, and outright lies, I'm not surprised that such would circulate among some.

Funny how so many apologists have a way of seeing things one way. No one here said there isn't Jihad terrorism. But you must understand that it exists because of foreign invasion and imperialism. After all, if some one broke into your house, usurped and proclaimed it as his own, What the heck would you do? Just sit there and applaud him?

There have been enough postings here of Israelis engaging in atrocities so I am not going to bother posting them again. It is obvious you would disregard them again in any case.

Yeah that Saddam story was a complete fabrication:


Amnesty International initially supported the story, but later issued a retraction. It stated that it "found no reliable evidence that Iraqi forces had caused the deaths of babies by removing them or ordering their removal from incubators."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony


I believe we discussed this inflammatory fairy tale at length in LP but you likely have forgotten about it over the years.

[MDlaxfan76]

1.yes And that's why I'm trying to get to the truth. If you can help me. I understand Hamas didn't cut of their heads. That's a truth casualty. But how did Hamas kill the Jewish babies? If you know...
2.I don't know if that's the best example. The Jews went to war repeatedly and they didn't murder babies, nor women and animals, which is why G-d telling Saul to do this was so unique. A unique demand from G-d because the Amalakites were a unique people. To this day, Jews have enemies from the past through to the present and then there's amalek. totally different animal. so G-d wanted Saul to 100% remove amalek from this world. And even with this explicit demand, Saul didn't do it. And he's punished for it. Loses his kingship. brooklyn, what i'm saying is that your example is an example of the opposite of what you're proposing. an example of the jews inability to kill babies. i might be missing something but it seems like the jews using non-jewish babies' blood for their matza is as credible as... the Jewish bible permits the killing of non-jewish babies. but wehatever. potato, potahto. beheaded a baby, slitting a baby's throat (but not beheading it). but, brooklyn, i do have to say, it strikes me as odd that *very recently*, hamas has performed innumerable atrocities, including murdering a baby and, to this, you say, Casualties of the truth! And then you quickly follow-up with a thousands year old text (that you're misinterpretting) to accuse the Jews of literally the same atrocity that was just done by hamas. does this not strike you as starnge?

I only know as much as you do. Sadly, we don't know (and may possibly never know) the full truth.

Re the killing of babies, you might recall that Saddam allegedly did so in incubators. The story was discredited but the myth of his doing so remained a topic of conversation for years to come. Yes we know Hamas is far from innocent. But this is equally true of Israel's government. As for that matza blood libel myth, yuck, not an issue but a stereotype that should be erased from history forever. Regarding the Bible I posted that just to prove a point that it was permitted back then. However, Koranic law is eminently clear that killing infants is strictly prohibited ("Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man."

So...obviously, "Islamic" terrorists regularly violate that particular passage in the Koran.
...As these Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists did as well...on purpose, specifically, civilians. All ages, genders, etc. Brutal murder.

Pretty sure there are strong prohibitions against murder in the Old Testament too.

While I'd agree that the Israeli government is not "innocent", I don't believe that as a policy matter the Israeli government nor Israeli citizens as a rule countenance or celebrate the intentional murder of civilians or any background.

There IS a moral difference.

IMO, that matters, though is not sufficient.

re Saddam, I'd never heard that rumor, but in our age of misinformation, disinformation, and outright lies, I'm not surprised that such would circulate among some.

My wife and I bought tickets to a speaking event back in August and the event was last night. There were 3 or 4 events I was interested in and incredibly, the guy that spoke last night could not have been more timely in his discussion….. the speaker was Art Spiegelman. It was a fantastic discussion. He talked about misinformation….he talked about his book Maus being banned in a Tennessee school district….he talked about the conflict in Israel….he talked about the “othering” of people. A very provocative discussion and so timely.

I bet it was terrific!

[cradleandshoot]

If you ask an american if they're racists, sexist, anti-semitic, homophobic, the answer will consistently be, No. Which is often followed by, but...

You get the same answer if you ask if you have stopped beating your wife...followed by but....

[Seacoaster(1)]

If you ask an american if they're racists, sexist, anti-semitic, homophobic, the answer will consistently be, No. Which is often followed by, but...

You get the same answer if you ask if you have stopped beating your wife...followed by but....

Umm, no.

[cradleandshoot]

1.yes And that's why I'm trying to get to the truth. If you can help me. I understand Hamas didn't cut of their heads. That's a truth casualty. But how did Hamas kill the Jewish babies? If you know...
2.I don't know if that's the best example. The Jews went to war repeatedly and they didn't murder babies, nor women and animals, which is why G-d telling Saul to do this was so unique. A unique demand from G-d because the Amalakites were a unique people. To this day, Jews have enemies from the past through to the present and then there's amalek. totally different animal. so G-d wanted Saul to 100% remove amalek from this world. And even with this explicit demand, Saul didn't do it. And he's punished for it. Loses his kingship. brooklyn, what i'm saying is that your example is an example of the opposite of what you're proposing. an example of the jews inability to kill babies. i might be missing something but it seems like the jews using non-jewish babies' blood for their matza is as credible as... the Jewish bible permits the killing of non-jewish babies. but wehatever. potato, potahto. beheaded a baby, slitting a baby's throat (but not beheading it). but, brooklyn, i do have to say, it strikes me as odd that *very recently*, hamas has performed innumerable atrocities, including murdering a baby and, to this, you say, Casualties of the truth! And then you quickly follow-up with a thousands year old text (that you're misinterpretting) to accuse the Jews of literally the same atrocity that was just done by hamas. does this not strike you as starnge?

I only know as much as you do. Sadly, we don't know (and may possibly never know) the full truth.

Re the killing of babies, you might recall that Saddam allegedly did so in incubators. The story was discredited but the myth of his doing so remained a topic of conversation for years to come. Yes we know Hamas is far from innocent. But this is equally true of Israel's government. As for that matza blood libel myth, yuck, not an issue but a stereotype that should be erased from history forever. Regarding the Bible I posted that just to prove a point that it was permitted back then. However, Koranic law is eminently clear that killing infants is strictly prohibited ("Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man."

So...obviously, "Islamic" terrorists regularly violate that particular passage in the Koran.
...As these Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists did as well...on purpose, specifically, civilians. All ages, genders, etc. Brutal murder.

Pretty sure there are strong prohibitions against murder in the Old Testament too.

While I'd agree that the Israeli government is not "innocent", I don't believe that as a policy matter the Israeli government nor Israeli citizens as a rule countenance or celebrate the intentional murder of civilians or any background.

There IS a moral difference.

IMO, that matters, though is not sufficient.

re Saddam, I'd never heard that rumor, but in our age of misinformation, disinformation, and outright lies, I'm not surprised that such would circulate among some.

My wife and I bought tickets to a speaking event back in August and the event was last night. There were 3 or 4 events I was interested in and incredibly, the guy that spoke last night could not have been more timely in his discussion….. the speaker was Art Spiegelman. It was a fantastic discussion. He talked about misinformation….he talked about his book Maus being banned in a Tennessee school district….he talked about the conflict in Israel….he talked about the “othering” of people. A very provocative discussion and so timely.

I bet it was terrific!

I thought you weren't a betting man?

[cradleandshoot]

If you ask an american if they're racists, sexist, anti-semitic, homophobic, the answer will consistently be, No. Which is often followed by, but...

You get the same answer if you ask if you have stopped beating your wife...followed by but....

Umm, no.

So your still beating your wife? I'm surprised at you.

[MDlaxfan76]

So...obviously, "Islamic" terrorists regularly violate that particular passage in the Koran.
...As these Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists did as well...on purpose, specifically, civilians. All ages, genders, etc. Brutal murder.

Pretty sure there are strong prohibitions against murder in the Old Testament too.

While I'd agree that the Israeli government is not "innocent", I don't believe that as a policy matter the Israeli government nor Israeli citizens as a rule countenance or celebrate the intentional murder of civilians or any background.

There IS a moral difference.

IMO, that matters, though is not sufficient.

re Saddam, I'd never heard that rumor, but in our age of misinformation, disinformation, and outright lies, I'm not surprised that such would circulate among some.

Funny how so many apologists have a way of seeing things one way. No one here said there isn't Jihad terrorism. But you must understand that it exists because of foreign invasion and imperialism. After all, if some one broke into your house, usurped and proclaimed it as his own, What the heck would you do? Just sit there and applaud him?

There have been enough postings here of Israelis engaging in atrocities so I am not going to bother posting them again. It is obvious you would disregard them again in any case.

Yeah that Saddam story was a complete fabrication:


Amnesty International initially supported the story, but later issued a retraction. It stated that it "found no reliable evidence that Iraqi forces had caused the deaths of babies by removing them or ordering their removal from incubators."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony


I believe we discussed this inflammatory fairy tale at length in LP but you likely have forgotten about it over the years.

yes, fully gone from my memory bank...but I'm not surprised that such would have some temporary legs.

and yes, I'm sure there have been Israelis who have committed evil acts, atrocities. But they are typically outed as such, punished, and certainly not a matter of general policy. Some get covered up, excused, you're right. Just as we do here in the US at times in excusing, covering up, violence by our own authorities. And we should work against that.

But let's distinguish between what was done a week ago and what the Israeli military and security forces at least usually attempt to do, avoid killing civilians, not purposefully kill them specifically.

And I hear you on the 'reason' people resort to terrorism, but I think that it should be condemned unabashedly and fully, without caveat. Walk and chew gum. Have empathy for the people feeling desperate and angry, but don't condone that response.

It only leads to worse.

[Baducchi]

...But you must understand that it exists because of foreign invasion and imperialism. After all, if some one broke into your house, usurped and proclaimed it as his own, What the heck would you do? Just sit there and applaud him?...

foreign invasion and imperialism. hahahahah the Jews were living in israel in the same way that the palestinians were living in israel. the brits were the owners of this house that the jews "broke into". not the palestinians. and this happened 75 years ago. israel is a nation. a real nation. a jewish state. get over it. move on.

[MDlaxfan76]

1.yes And that's why I'm trying to get to the truth. If you can help me. I understand Hamas didn't cut of their heads. That's a truth casualty. But how did Hamas kill the Jewish babies? If you know...
2.I don't know if that's the best example. The Jews went to war repeatedly and they didn't murder babies, nor women and animals, which is why G-d telling Saul to do this was so unique. A unique demand from G-d because the Amalakites were a unique people. To this day, Jews have enemies from the past through to the present and then there's amalek. totally different animal. so G-d wanted Saul to 100% remove amalek from this world. And even with this explicit demand, Saul didn't do it. And he's punished for it. Loses his kingship. brooklyn, what i'm saying is that your example is an example of the opposite of what you're proposing. an example of the jews inability to kill babies. i might be missing something but it seems like the jews using non-jewish babies' blood for their matza is as credible as... the Jewish bible permits the killing of non-jewish babies. but wehatever. potato, potahto. beheaded a baby, slitting a baby's throat (but not beheading it). but, brooklyn, i do have to say, it strikes me as odd that *very recently*, hamas has performed innumerable atrocities, including murdering a baby and, to this, you say, Casualties of the truth! And then you quickly follow-up with a thousands year old text (that you're misinterpretting) to accuse the Jews of literally the same atrocity that was just done by hamas. does this not strike you as starnge?

I only know as much as you do. Sadly, we don't know (and may possibly never know) the full truth.

Re the killing of babies, you might recall that Saddam allegedly did so in incubators. The story was discredited but the myth of his doing so remained a topic of conversation for years to come. Yes we know Hamas is far from innocent. But this is equally true of Israel's government. As for that matza blood libel myth, yuck, not an issue but a stereotype that should be erased from history forever. Regarding the Bible I posted that just to prove a point that it was permitted back then. However, Koranic law is eminently clear that killing infants is strictly prohibited ("Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man."

So...obviously, "Islamic" terrorists regularly violate that particular passage in the Koran.
...As these Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists did as well...on purpose, specifically, civilians. All ages, genders, etc. Brutal murder.

Pretty sure there are strong prohibitions against murder in the Old Testament too.

While I'd agree that the Israeli government is not "innocent", I don't believe that as a policy matter the Israeli government nor Israeli citizens as a rule countenance or celebrate the intentional murder of civilians or any background.

There IS a moral difference.

IMO, that matters, though is not sufficient.

re Saddam, I'd never heard that rumor, but in our age of misinformation, disinformation, and outright lies, I'm not surprised that such would circulate among some.

My wife and I bought tickets to a speaking event back in August and the event was last night. There were 3 or 4 events I was interested in and incredibly, the guy that spoke last night could not have been more timely in his discussion….. the speaker was Art Spiegelman. It was a fantastic discussion. He talked about misinformation….he talked about his book Maus being banned in a Tennessee school district….he talked about the conflict in Israel….he talked about the “othering” of people. A very provocative discussion and so timely.

I bet it was terrific!

I thought you weren't a betting man?

I bet all the time in real life, cradle. I'm an entrepreneur and an investor in entrepreneurs.

But I don't like betting against the House. Fools game.

[MDlaxfan76]

...But you must understand that it exists because of foreign invasion and imperialism. After all, if some one broke into your house, usurped and proclaimed it as his own, What the heck would you do? Just sit there and applaud him?...

foreign invasion and imperialism. hahahahah the Jews were living in israel in the same way that the palestinians were living in israel. the brits were the owners of this house that the jews "broke into". not the palestinians. and this happened 75 years ago. israel is a nation. a real nation. a jewish state. get over it. move on.

Which doesn't rule out the moral responsibility to find a path to Palestinian dignity and opportunity for prosperity as well.

[Seacoaster(1)]

If you ask an american if they're racists, sexist, anti-semitic, homophobic, the answer will consistently be, No. Which is often followed by, but...

You get the same answer if you ask if you have stopped beating your wife...followed by but....

Umm, no.

So your still beating your wife? I'm surprised at you.

You don't get the same answer -- "No, but..." from me to either question. Reading is hard.

[Baducchi]

what hamas did this past week is off the charts. and do not forget, they are the governing party of gaza. israel has never done anything even similar to this. and if they did, they or anybody did, they would and have denounced it. on passover, jews remove wine from their cups when they talk about the egyptians being killed. jews do not celebrate killings. even of their enemies. do not. the pro-hamas crowd cannot say the same. no way.

[Baducchi]

...But you must understand that it exists because of foreign invasion and imperialism. After all, if some one broke into your house, usurped and proclaimed it as his own, What the heck would you do? Just sit there and applaud him?...

foreign invasion and imperialism. hahahahah the Jews were living in israel in the same way that the palestinians were living in israel. the brits were the owners of this house that the jews "broke into". not the palestinians. and this happened 75 years ago. israel is a nation. a real nation. a jewish state. get over it. move on.

Which doesn't rule out the moral responsibility to find a path to Palestinian dignity and opportunity for prosperity as well.

of course not. israel has little to no issue with palestine. israel has a major issue with any and all people who don't believe israel has the right to exist. e.g. hamas, hezbollah, and more. israel wants peace and bends over backwards to find it. they just wont do it at the expense of the jews within israel. which seems fair to me.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Looks like the intelligence assessments increasingly lay the hospital bombing at the hands of misfired Hamas or Islamic Jihad ordnance. Pity we live in a world where the reality, whatever it is, will not much matter.

[MDlaxfan76]

what hamas did this past week is off the charts. and do not forget, they are the governing party of gaza. israel has never done anything even similar to this. and if they did, they or anybody did, they would and have denounced it. on passover, jews remove wine from their cups when they talk about the egyptians being killed. jews do not celebrate killings. even of their enemies. do not. the pro-hamas crowd cannot say the same. no way.

I think if you've followed my posts, I probably don't need to repeat that I see a very clear moral distinction and reality.

It simply doesn't mean that I don't have empathy for the majority of Gazans, much less Palestinians, who actually don't support Hamas or any other Islamic terrorism, don't celebrate such atrocities.

And I also think we should all have a bit of humility in assessing our own 'team"'s capacities to do wrong. These are humans, not simply "Jews" (or whatever) and we're all imperfect and evil can exist among us at times.

There's a whole lot of evil in control with Hamas etc.

[MDlaxfan76]

...But you must understand that it exists because of foreign invasion and imperialism. After all, if some one broke into your house, usurped and proclaimed it as his own, What the heck would you do? Just sit there and applaud him?...

foreign invasion and imperialism. hahahahah the Jews were living in israel in the same way that the palestinians were living in israel. the brits were the owners of this house that the jews "broke into". not the palestinians. and this happened 75 years ago. israel is a nation. a real nation. a jewish state. get over it. move on.

Which doesn't rule out the moral responsibility to find a path to Palestinian dignity and opportunity for prosperity as well.

of course not. israel has little to no issue with palestine. israel has a major issue with any and all people who don't believe israel has the right to exist. e.g. hamas, hezbollah, and more. israel wants peace and bends over backwards to find it. they just wont do it at the expense of the jews within israel. which seems fair to me.

It's a heck of a challenge, yes.

[Farfromgeneva]

Looks like those previously "confirmed" reports of Hamas beheading babies are now being retracted. I knew that it couldn't be since it would be a violation of the Koran. By contrast, the Bible teaches that you can do even worse things to babies.

Two questions:
1- Do you know how Hamas killed the babies? Did they slit their throats but didn't actually cut off their heads?
2- I haven't heard of the Jewish Bible allowing the murder of babies but I have heard about Jews using baby blood as an essential ingredient in the making of their matza for Passover. Are these two things connected?

Pretty sure your second is an infamous “blood libel.”

Not true, and does nothing to further this discussion. In fact, it is emblematic of the long history of anti-jewish behavior that has contributed hugely to the predicament all of us find ourselves in.

So, please stop.

blood libel! that was it! thank you... totally anti-jewish behavior based on not just lies but a lie that is so the opposite of jewish values. jews won't eat the blood the animals. this is a critical part of the koshering process yet jews are being accused of (and murdered for) using the bllod of non-jewish babies in a recipe for the holiest food on one of the holiest days on their calendar. kind of like someone within this thread saying, for example, that hamas would never behead a baby becaiuse it goes against muslim law while, ironically, the Jewish bible totally allows the murder of babies, women, etc. with all due respect pizza, i'm all for calling out blatant anti-jewish behaviors but i don't think we should ignore current day ones while the obvious old ones are reprimanded. brooklyn's (and any one who supports hamas) stance is blatantly anti-jewish and, to be frank, i'm amazed that fanlax has allowed this piece of garbage to have a voice. i've seen fanlax shut down people making racist comments and otherwise. why is this any different?

who is your Bob Probert, mr Domi?

[Farfromgeneva]

1.yes And that's why I'm trying to get to the truth. If you can help me. I understand Hamas didn't cut of their heads. That's a truth casualty. But how did Hamas kill the Jewish babies? If you know...
2.I don't know if that's the best example. The Jews went to war repeatedly and they didn't murder babies, nor women and animals, which is why G-d telling Saul to do this was so unique. A unique demand from G-d because the Amalakites were a unique people. To this day, Jews have enemies from the past through to the present and then there's amalek. totally different animal. so G-d wanted Saul to 100% remove amalek from this world. And even with this explicit demand, Saul didn't do it. And he's punished for it. Loses his kingship. brooklyn, what i'm saying is that your example is an example of the opposite of what you're proposing. an example of the jews inability to kill babies. i might be missing something but it seems like the jews using non-jewish babies' blood for their matza is as credible as... the Jewish bible permits the killing of non-jewish babies. but wehatever. potato, potahto. beheaded a baby, slitting a baby's throat (but not beheading it). but, brooklyn, i do have to say, it strikes me as odd that *very recently*, hamas has performed innumerable atrocities, including murdering a baby and, to this, you say, Casualties of the truth! And then you quickly follow-up with a thousands year old text (that you're misinterpretting) to accuse the Jews of literally the same atrocity that was just done by hamas. does this not strike you as starnge?

I only know as much as you do. Sadly, we don't know (and may possibly never know) the full truth.

Re the killing of babies, you might recall that Saddam allegedly did so in incubators. The story was discredited but the myth of his doing so remained a topic of conversation for years to come. Yes we know Hamas is far from innocent. But this is equally true of Israel's government. As for that matza blood libel myth, yuck, not an issue but a stereotype that should be erased from history forever. Regarding the Bible I posted that just to prove a point that it was permitted back then. However, Koranic law is eminently clear that killing infants is strictly prohibited ("Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man."

So...obviously, "Islamic" terrorists regularly violate that particular passage in the Koran.
...As these Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists did as well...on purpose, specifically, civilians. All ages, genders, etc. Brutal murder.

Pretty sure there are strong prohibitions against murder in the Old Testament too.

While I'd agree that the Israeli government is not "innocent", I don't believe that as a policy matter the Israeli government nor Israeli citizens as a rule countenance or celebrate the intentional murder of civilians or any background.

There IS a moral difference.

IMO, that matters, though is not sufficient.

re Saddam, I'd never heard that rumor, but in our age of misinformation, disinformation, and outright lies, I'm not surprised that such would circulate among some.

My wife and I bought tickets to a speaking event back in August and the event was last night. There were 3 or 4 events I was interested in and incredibly, the guy that spoke last night could not have been more timely in his discussion….. the speaker was Art Spiegelman. It was a fantastic discussion. He talked about misinformation….he talked about his book Maus being banned in a Tennessee school district….he talked about the conflict in Israel….he talked about the “othering” of people. A very provocative discussion and so timely.

Didnt realize he's still alive. He wrote those in the 70s or 80s, I read the first one before 6th grade I'm pretty sure (somehwere around 10-11 as a gift from my sister). Should've given me a heads up and I would've shipped the book to you for an Autograph.

[Baducchi]

... we're all imperfect and evil can exist among us at times...

If you commit a violent act and feel and express regret, that's not evil. that's a mistake. that is not what were looking at with hamas (who was duly elected by the gazans), some palestinians, and other terrorist groups. evil does not exist under my roof and i'm going to guess it doesn't exist under your roof either. evil is a big word. a terrible word. and it is very real.

[Farfromgeneva]

1.yes And that's why I'm trying to get to the truth. If you can help me. I understand Hamas didn't cut of their heads. That's a truth casualty. But how did Hamas kill the Jewish babies? If you know...
2.I don't know if that's the best example. The Jews went to war repeatedly and they didn't murder babies, nor women and animals, which is why G-d telling Saul to do this was so unique. A unique demand from G-d because the Amalakites were a unique people. To this day, Jews have enemies from the past through to the present and then there's amalek. totally different animal. so G-d wanted Saul to 100% remove amalek from this world. And even with this explicit demand, Saul didn't do it. And he's punished for it. Loses his kingship. brooklyn, what i'm saying is that your example is an example of the opposite of what you're proposing. an example of the jews inability to kill babies. i might be missing something but it seems like the jews using non-jewish babies' blood for their matza is as credible as... the Jewish bible permits the killing of non-jewish babies. but wehatever. potato, potahto. beheaded a baby, slitting a baby's throat (but not beheading it). but, brooklyn, i do have to say, it strikes me as odd that *very recently*, hamas has performed innumerable atrocities, including murdering a baby and, to this, you say, Casualties of the truth! And then you quickly follow-up with a thousands year old text (that you're misinterpretting) to accuse the Jews of literally the same atrocity that was just done by hamas. does this not strike you as starnge?

I only know as much as you do. Sadly, we don't know (and may possibly never know) the full truth.

Re the killing of babies, you might recall that Saddam allegedly did so in incubators. The story was discredited but the myth of his doing so remained a topic of conversation for years to come. Yes we know Hamas is far from innocent. But this is equally true of Israel's government. As for that matza blood libel myth, yuck, not an issue but a stereotype that should be erased from history forever. Regarding the Bible I posted that just to prove a point that it was permitted back then. However, Koranic law is eminently clear that killing infants is strictly prohibited ("Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man."

So...obviously, "Islamic" terrorists regularly violate that particular passage in the Koran.
...As these Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists did as well...on purpose, specifically, civilians. All ages, genders, etc. Brutal murder.

Pretty sure there are strong prohibitions against murder in the Old Testament too.

While I'd agree that the Israeli government is not "innocent", I don't believe that as a policy matter the Israeli government nor Israeli citizens as a rule countenance or celebrate the intentional murder of civilians or any background.

There IS a moral difference.

IMO, that matters, though is not sufficient.

re Saddam, I'd never heard that rumor, but in our age of misinformation, disinformation, and outright lies, I'm not surprised that such would circulate among some.

My wife and I bought tickets to a speaking event back in August and the event was last night. There were 3 or 4 events I was interested in and incredibly, the guy that spoke last night could not have been more timely in his discussion….. the speaker was Art Spiegelman. It was a fantastic discussion. He talked about misinformation….he talked about his book Maus being banned in a Tennessee school district….he talked about the conflict in Israel….he talked about the “othering” of people. A very provocative discussion and so timely.

I bet it was terrific!

I thought you weren't a betting man?

I bet all the time in real life, cradle. I'm an entrepreneur and an investor in entrepreneurs.

But I don't like betting against the House. Fools game.

He will never ever understand that folks my life bets daily, hourly, by choice of path. Thinks luck is something other than randomness..