Israel and West Bank Settlements

[Farfromgeneva]

George ran into one today:

https://twitter.com/NolanDMcCaskill/sta ... 6784277646

This guy?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1N0fWFSo3JY

[NattyBohChamps04]

And? Syria is fractured, and Syria defense forces or Iranian / Iranian backed militias have been firing rockets and mortars into Israel from Syria for years. And Syria has been letting or helping Iran funnel weapons to Hezbollah through Syria. There was a plane likely full of weapons flying into Syria at the time of the attacks that turned back around to Tehran.

This ain't some "neutral" country my man. It's obviously complicated, but your holier than thou act here doesn't hold water.

Israel sent drones to attack Iran and have yet to prove that Tehran had any actual role in attacking Israel.

All this talk that Iran is out to conquer the world is total bullschitt created by drugged up war profit seeking delusionals and their supporters. Syria is Sunni which means it, too, is at war with Iran. We've had several threads on this forum (and LP) in which you delusionals continue to insist upon launching a war on Iran. To this day you have yet to present so much as a shred of evidence to support or to justify your pro war claims.

We're not talking about the Hamas attack, try to keep up. We're talking about Iran supporting Hezbollah for years and Syria attacking Israel.

Sunni and Shia? The Islamic Republic of Iran and the Syrian Arab Republic are close allies despite that. Funny how that works.

I've never once advocated for launching a war on Iran. Do your research before getting over your skis. You're not reading anything I've actually written.

[Farfromgeneva]

Should be self explanatory. Just allow citizenship and equal rights to all people within its borders. Had this happened as was proposed 60 years ago, by now Muslims would have been the majority and the country would have been at peace just as in the days of the Spanish Arabic dynasties.

You want no Israel.

You always have to ask this question of the far left pro-Palestinian crowd. You want the Jewish population wiped out from the region, Brookie.

Gee, why are the Israeli's fighting, Brook? Please, by all means, act like they're insane for not wanting to be wiped out.

No Israel? I have REPEATEDLY stated that I want a one state solution.

Please read my posts again.

Oh, I read them. What happened 60 years ago-----your words, not mine? 'member the war?

Or more to the point: how many jewish people live in your "0ne State Solutions" in neighboring Egypt or Syria?

Just look away doesn’t matter.

[NattyBohChamps04]

Israel attacking neutrals in their continued campaign of aggression, imperialism, and hate. As always, such evils are met with silence from the international community.

Yes, yes. "Neutrals" are famous for... checks notes... launching rockets and mortars at their neighbors, and funneling munitions from Iran to Hezbollah.

Very neutral behavior, shame on Israel.

Can one be neutral and also a habitual line stepper?

Asking for a friend, or something…

Look, if you really wanna talk about Swiss women, let's start a new thread.

My dad opened up a Swiss bank account in the 60's just for the bragging rights. Think he closed it a year later because it was stupid.

[Farfromgeneva]

This guy was once a solid Econ Professor at Bart but lost his marbles over this issue which is a shame. Increasingly bellicose and intrusive/invasive in harmful ways to others to get his point across they stripped him of his Hobart privileges 5-10yrs ago.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_A._McGowan

Adding the piece I recalled from FL Times-lots of thoughts but not passing my judgement here but the colleges have changed tremendously over the last 20-25yrs. I will note that the trajectory in USNWR hasn’t been good at all over this time and brining the ineffective President back now who was in Clinton’s first White House (dir or comm) creates some interesting correlations (except he’s afraid to ask abby Johnson for money when she’s worth $32Bn and out endowment is 0.67% of that give or take).

Retired professor Dan McGowan keeps up 'quiche vigils'

GENEVA — If you travel down South Main Street in Geneva on any Thursday between 11 a.m. and noon — in weather good or bad — you’ll see a well-dressed man holding a sign that says “Due Process Matters.”

The man holding that sign is Dan McGowan, a professor emeritus at Hobart and William Smith Colleges who has kept vigil for 36 weeks in front of St. John’s Chapel.

His weekly appearance is in response to his punishment by HWS administration for what he thought was a relatively innocent piece of correspondence on the Colleges’ email service Sept. 15, 2017:

“I was delighted to see that HWS will have a theatre production of 5 Lesbians Eating a Quiche ... While I have limited thespian experience, I have played a gluten-free, fair-trade quiche and as a faculty emeritus, I am willing to serve in this production.”

“That’s all I said. It was the whole email,” said McGowan while standing on South Main Street on a chilly Thursday morning earlier this month with small flakes of snow falling. “I was just making a joke, humor.”

Not everyone thought it was funny, and some HWS faculty filed a Bias Incident Response Team report.

McGowan, 74, said the charge levied by the Colleges’ director of human resources, Sonya Williams, was “prohibited conduct and inappropriate behavior.” The punishment was suspension of his college email that includes his contacts and calendar.

“I love the (HWS) community, and I taught here for over 30 years,” he said.

Losing that email essentially cut McGowan off from a communication link with current and retired HWS faculty and staff.

McGowan said he still doesn’t know who filed the complaint, and that he was “not allowed to know when, where and by whom he was judged.” Opportunities to plead his case with administration proved fruitless for the most part, he said.

“I didn’t have a chance to defend myself,” he said. “(The email) doesn’t rise to the level of prohibited speech, but there was never a chance to say that.”

McGowan said there was even a suggestion by a member of the Committee on Diversity, Equity and Social Justice that his emeritus status be revoked.

In response to an inquiry for comment on McGowan’s case, HWS asked for written questions. However, it did not respond last week with answers.

On Monday, HWS spokesperson Mary LeClair said the Colleges had no comment.

In a statement McGowan hands out to inquiring minds, he spells out his vigil’s goals:

• Fully restore his HWS email account.

• Urge HWS to apologize for its “failure to ensure due process and fair treatment for Professor McGowan and for all HWS people.”

• “Support the American Association of University Professors in its fight against targeted harassment and the right of faculty members to speak or write as citizens, free from institutional censorship or disciplinary action, which is a core principle of academic freedom.”

McGowan acknowledged that his stances on Palestine could be a factor in the actions taken against him. Faculty that wanted him punished “oppose my standing for Palestinian human rights.”

There are those who have suggested McGowan is a Holocaust denier, but he said that’s not true.

“All I did was define what Holocaust denial meant,” he said.

In a piece published in the online site “Dissident Voice,” titled “What Does Holocaust Denial Really Mean?” he writes:

“Holocaust Denial might be no more eccentric or no more criminal than claiming the earth is flat, except that the Holocaust itself has been used as the sword and shield in the quest to build a Jewish state between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River, where even today over half the population is not Jewish.”

His longtime friend, Barry Jones, who led IT services at HWS before retiring, said McGowan “has been wronged.” Jones said McGowan’s stances don’t jibe well generally with faculty.

“He’s oftentimes took an unpopular stance on issues,” he said. “One of them is the Palestinian issue. Over the years he has ruffled a lot of feathers.”

However, Jones said McGowan provides “a dissenting voice that needs to be heard, especially in academic situations.”

Jones said McGowan’s “quiche email” gave his critics an opportunity.

“They jumped all over that like a guy in a shark-infested pool,” he said.

McGowan was vilified on HWS email, Jones said, with one calling the retired professor “a dirty old man.”

To Jones’ knowledge, no one was punished for any of the attacks against McGowan.

“If I went and called somebody a name like that, I would expect to pay the penalty,” Jones said, adding that McGowan “never crams his opinions down your throat” and never condemns those that differ with his views.

Jones said the alleged lack of due process by HWS runs contrary to the Colleges’ stated mission of fairness.

“It’s exactly the things we’re not supposed to be about,” he said.

McGowan was given an avenue to possibly have his email privileges reinstated when Williams asked that he submit what McGowan called “a four-page summary of what I had learned from this experience.” McGowan considered the request condescending.

In the response, which he provided to the Finger Lakes Times, McGowan hardly provided a mea culpa for the quiche email.

“Above all else,” he writes in part, “I have learned that if we don’t clearly define ‘prohibited conduct and inappropriate behavior‘ in any form in life (political, social, cultural, in our places of work, in our private lives) we create situations where power can be weaponized and used to perpetrate the very things we claim to fight against. If someone in power decides (in secret and without discussion or due process) that you deserve to be punished, far more harm is done in our society than good. Instead of the solution, these people in power become part of the problem. They become the exclusionary, ugly monsters they claim to safeguard against.”

McGowan acknowledged that his response probably wasn’t the one HWS officials were hoping for, and he’s not optimistic he’ll be getting his email back anytime soon.

In the meantime, the vigils continue.

“I have, statistically, 10 more years to live,” he said. “I expect to be here for 10 years. I don’t intend to give up until I get the email back and an apology for the lack of due process and the lack of fair treatment.”

Retired professor Dan McGowan keeps up 'quiche vigils'

GENEVA — If you travel down South Main Street in Geneva on any Thursday between 11 a.m. and noon — in weather good or bad — you’ll see a well-dressed man holding a sign that says “Due Process Matters.”

The man holding that sign is Dan McGowan, a professor emeritus at Hobart and William Smith Colleges who has kept vigil for 36 weeks in front of St. John’s Chapel.

His weekly appearance is in response to his punishment by HWS administration for what he thought was a relatively innocent piece of correspondence on the Colleges’ email service Sept. 15, 2017:

“I was delighted to see that HWS will have a theatre production of 5 Lesbians Eating a Quiche ... While I have limited thespian experience, I have played a gluten-free, fair-trade quiche and as a faculty emeritus, I am willing to serve in this production.”

“That’s all I said. It was the whole email,” said McGowan while standing on South Main Street on a chilly Thursday morning earlier this month with small flakes of snow falling. “I was just making a joke, humor.”

Not everyone thought it was funny, and some HWS faculty filed a Bias Incident Response Team report.

McGowan, 74, said the charge levied by the Colleges’ director of human resources, Sonya Williams, was “prohibited conduct and inappropriate behavior.” The punishment was suspension of his college email that includes his contacts and calendar.

“I love the (HWS) community, and I taught here for over 30 years,” he said.

Losing that email essentially cut McGowan off from a communication link with current and retired HWS faculty and staff.

McGowan said he still doesn’t know who filed the complaint, and that he was “not allowed to know when, where and by whom he was judged.” Opportunities to plead his case with administration proved fruitless for the most part, he said.

“I didn’t have a chance to defend myself,” he said. “(The email) doesn’t rise to the level of prohibited speech, but there was never a chance to say that.”

McGowan said there was even a suggestion by a member of the Committee on Diversity, Equity and Social Justice that his emeritus status be revoked.

In response to an inquiry for comment on McGowan’s case, HWS asked for written questions. However, it did not respond last week with answers.

On Monday, HWS spokesperson Mary LeClair said the Colleges had no comment.

In a statement McGowan hands out to inquiring minds, he spells out his vigil’s goals:

• Fully restore his HWS email account.

• Urge HWS to apologize for its “failure to ensure due process and fair treatment for Professor McGowan and for all HWS people.”

• “Support the American Association of University Professors in its fight against targeted harassment and the right of faculty members to speak or write as citizens, free from institutional censorship or disciplinary action, which is a core principle of academic freedom.”

McGowan acknowledged that his stances on Palestine could be a factor in the actions taken against him. Faculty that wanted him punished “oppose my standing for Palestinian human rights.”

There are those who have suggested McGowan is a Holocaust denier, but he said that’s not true.

“All I did was define what Holocaust denial meant,” he said.

In a piece published in the online site “Dissident Voice,” titled “What Does Holocaust Denial Really Mean?” he writes:

“Holocaust Denial might be no more eccentric or no more criminal than claiming the earth is flat, except that the Holocaust itself has been used as the sword and shield in the quest to build a Jewish state between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River, where even today over half the population is not Jewish.”

His longtime friend, Barry Jones, who led IT services at HWS before retiring, said McGowan “has been wronged.” Jones said McGowan’s stances don’t jibe well generally with faculty.

“He’s oftentimes took an unpopular stance on issues,” he said. “One of them is the Palestinian issue. Over the years he has ruffled a lot of feathers.”

However, Jones said McGowan provides “a dissenting voice that needs to be heard, especially in academic situations.”

Jones said McGowan’s “quiche email” gave his critics an opportunity.

“They jumped all over that like a guy in a shark-infested pool,” he said.

McGowan was vilified on HWS email, Jones said, with one calling the retired professor “a dirty old man.”

To Jones’ knowledge, no one was punished for any of the attacks against McGowan.

“If I went and called somebody a name like that, I would expect to pay the penalty,” Jones said, adding that McGowan “never crams his opinions down your throat” and never condemns those that differ with his views.

Jones said the alleged lack of due process by HWS runs contrary to the Colleges’ stated mission of fairness.

“It’s exactly the things we’re not supposed to be about,” he said.

McGowan was given an avenue to possibly have his email privileges reinstated when Williams asked that he submit what McGowan called “a four-page summary of what I had learned from this experience.” McGowan considered the request condescending.

In the response, which he provided to the Finger Lakes Times, McGowan hardly provided a mea culpa for the quiche email.

“Above all else,” he writes in part, “I have learned that if we don’t clearly define ‘prohibited conduct and inappropriate behavior‘ in any form in life (political, social, cultural, in our places of work, in our private lives) we create situations where power can be weaponized and used to perpetrate the very things we claim to fight against. If someone in power decides (in secret and without discussion or due process) that you deserve to be punished, far more harm is done in our society than good. Instead of the solution, these people in power become part of the problem. They become the exclusionary, ugly monsters they claim to safeguard against.”

McGowan acknowledged that his response probably wasn’t the one HWS officials were hoping for, and he’s not optimistic he’ll be getting his email back anytime soon.

In the meantime, the vigils continue.

“I have, statistically, 10 more years to live,” he said. “I expect to be here for 10 years. I don’t intend to give up until I get the email back and an apology for the lack of due process and the lack of fair treatment.”

[Farfromgeneva]

Israel attacking neutrals in their continued campaign of aggression, imperialism, and hate. As always, such evils are met with silence from the international community.

Yes, yes. "Neutrals" are famous for... checks notes... launching rockets and mortars at their neighbors, and funneling munitions from Iran to Hezbollah.

Very neutral behavior, shame on Israel.

Can one be neutral and also a habitual line stepper?

Asking for a friend, or something…

Look, if you really wanna talk about Swiss women, let's start a new thread.

My dad opened up a Swiss bank account in the 60's just for the bragging rights. Think he closed it a year later because it was stupid.

Yes, yea I do. But can we focus on the pro sexual Revolution ones specifically?

Nice work pops!

[Farfromgeneva]

No Israel? I have REPEATEDLY stated that I want a one state solution.

Please read my posts again.

Oh, I read them. What happened 60 years ago-----your words, not mine? 'member the war?

Or more to the point: how many jewish people live in your "0ne State Solutions" in neighboring Egypt or Syria?

Can't answer for either one. Do they claim to be democratic or are they self proclaimed Islamic states?

Next to zero for both.

As for claims of "Democracy.....etc." Irrelevant. The point is, the Jewish people are not welcome in those countries. You are pretending like the Muslims would play nicey-nice if the were allowed power in Israel.

I'm not any happier about this mess than you are. But if the Jewish people in the region laid down their arms? You are hopefully not so far gone to understand that it would take maybe a week or two before they'd be wiped out.

The Iranians, Syrians, and Egyptians have no such worries.

Your "one State solution" would wipe out the last remaining Jewish people in the region, Brooks. You're not being realistic, and you know it.

This would feel like Vietnam squared compared with the wipeout we’d see

https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_in_the_ice

[Brooklyn]

We're not talking about the Hamas attack, try to keep up. We're talking about Iran supporting Hezbollah for years and Syria attacking Israel.

Sunni and Shia? The Islamic Republic of Iran and the Syrian Arab Republic are close allies despite that. Funny how that works.

I've never once advocated for launching a war on Iran. Do your research before getting over your skis. You're not reading anything I've actually written.

We are talking about Hamas and the Israeli tyrants who victimize them.


While Iran does support Hezbollah, it provides humanitarian support for Lebanon:


Winning hearts and minds Hezbollah not only has armed and political wings – it also boasts an extensive social development programme. The group currently operates at least four hospitals, 12 clinics, 12 schools and two agricultural centres that provide farmers with technical assistance and training. It also has an environmental department and an extensive social assistance programme. Medical care is also cheaper than in most of the country’s private hospitals and free for Hezbollah members. Most of these institutions are located in the country’s more marginalised areas, such as Beirut’s southern suburbs, in South Lebanon and in the Bekaa Valley. “We have special sections all over the country that provide financial and food assistance to the poor,” said Hezbollah spokesman Hussein Nabulsi. “We also run an emergency fund for instant care in case of immediate hospitalisation.”

https://www.thenewhumanitarian.org/repo ... -hezbollah


Lebanon would not need this support if the imperialists in Israel did not continue to wage war on those innocents. In your previous posts you said Iran is arming Hez as if they were terrorists when they are a part of the Lebanese government and engage in humanitarian causes. When your pals in Israel sent drones to attack Iran I didn't see any criticism of that on this forum. BTW, those drones were financed with USA dollars - Israel & USA = the world's #1 and # 2 imperialists. Since, evidently, you dislike Iran so much for allegedly arming people, let's see you criticize the USA and Israel for their warmongering evils.

[old salt]

Wait for the investigation to account for what happened & why. This is not the time for that divisive, partisan nonsense.

It would help your cause if you took this stance consistently instead of only when it fits your agenda.

People are still dying en masse. I'm usually circumspect in the early stages of military conflicts with mass casualties.
I posted this when the invasion of Ukraine began :

We are re-entering a very dark period of history.

This is a failure of our post-Cold War policy.

The root causes extend back 3 decades.

In the early days after the invasion of Ukraine, I initiated no political posts & stayed technical until Ukraine's survival was assured.
I got political only in response to being trolled.

But right now Ukraine needs to stand firm. The world needed to see that resolve. Makes it clear it's not just leadership that wants no part of Russia.

Yep. They've earned their freedom & right to democratic self-government. Little chance for a national Vichy regime under a Putin stooge.
They've earned EU & NATO membership. Trial by fire. We're in full blown Cold War now. Could easily go hot.

My "cause" in both Ukraine & Israel is de-escalation, limiting loss of life, & future peace & stability.

[NattyBohChamps04]

We're not talking about the Hamas attack, try to keep up. We're talking about Iran supporting Hezbollah for years and Syria attacking Israel.

Sunni and Shia? The Islamic Republic of Iran and the Syrian Arab Republic are close allies despite that. Funny how that works.

I've never once advocated for launching a war on Iran. Do your research before getting over your skis. You're not reading anything I've actually written.

We are talking about Hamas and the Israeli tyrants who victimize them.


While Iran does support Hezbollah, it provides humanitarian support for Lebanon:


Winning hearts and minds Hezbollah not only has armed and political wings – it also boasts an extensive social development programme. The group currently operates at least four hospitals, 12 clinics, 12 schools and two agricultural centres that provide farmers with technical assistance and training. It also has an environmental department and an extensive social assistance programme. Medical care is also cheaper than in most of the country’s private hospitals and free for Hezbollah members. Most of these institutions are located in the country’s more marginalised areas, such as Beirut’s southern suburbs, in South Lebanon and in the Bekaa Valley. “We have special sections all over the country that provide financial and food assistance to the poor,” said Hezbollah spokesman Hussein Nabulsi. “We also run an emergency fund for instant care in case of immediate hospitalisation.”

https://www.thenewhumanitarian.org/repo ... -hezbollah


Lebanon would not need this support if the imperialists in Israel did not continue to wage war on those innocents. In your previous posts you said Iran is arming Hez as if they were terrorists when they are a part of the Lebanese government and engage in humanitarian causes. When your pals in Israel sent drones to attack Iran I didn't see any criticism of that on this forum. BTW, those drones were financed with USA dollars - Israel & USA = the world's #1 and # 2 imperialists. Since, evidently, you dislike Iran so much for allegedly arming people, let's see you criticize the USA and Israel for their warmongering evils.

LMAO. You were talking about Israeli retaliatory strikes on Syria because Iran was smuggling weapons to Hezbollah.

I criticize USA and Israel for their warmongering evils too.

You don't ever seem to criticize the other side for when they blow up civilians. Let's see you critize Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran and ISIL and ISIS and other groups for their warmongering evils.

[NattyBohChamps04]

[Brooklyn]

LMAO. You were talking about Israeli retaliatory strikes on Syria because Iran was smuggling weapons to Hezbollah.

I criticize USA and Israel for their warmongering evils too.

You don't ever seem to criticize the other side for when they blow up civilians. Let's see you critize Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran and ISIL and ISIS and other groups for their warmongering evils.

I condemn all violence. What bothers me the most is the continued use of our dollars to support imperialistic tyranny and repression of innocents. Again, Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government and provides humanitarian support. None of it would be needed if the USA would stay the hell out of there. If anything, we each need to criticize Washington for its role in causing all this.

[jhu72]

LMAO. You were talking about Israeli retaliatory strikes on Syria because Iran was smuggling weapons to Hezbollah.

I criticize USA and Israel for their warmongering evils too.

You don't ever seem to criticize the other side for when they blow up civilians. Let's see you critize Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran and ISIL and ISIS and other groups for their warmongering evils.

I condemn all violence. What bothers me the most is the continued use of our dollars to support imperialistic tyranny and repression of innocents. Again, Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government and provides humanitarian support. None of it would be needed if the USA would stay the hell out of there. If anything, we each need to criticize Washington for its role in causing all this.

... no doubt the US has a lot of innocent blood on its hands as well and we do bear some responsibility for helping to create this mess.

[Farfromgeneva]

Harold Geneen if he’s still alive? He’s not though.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Geneen

Geneen was born on January 22, 1910, in Bournemouth, Hampshire, England. His father was Russian-Jewish, and his mother was an Italian Roman Catholic.[1] He migrated to the United States from England as an infant and later studied accounting at New York University. Between 1956 and 1959 he was senior vice president of Raytheon, developing his management structure, allowing a large degree of freedom for divisions while maintaining a high degree of financial and other accountability, which was surprising as he had been ejected from his prior employer, Jones and Laughlin Steel Company, for reckless management of the company books.

From 1959 to 1977 he was the president and CEO of International Telephone and Telegraph Corp. (ITT). He grew the company from a medium-sized business with $765 million sales in 1961 into an international conglomerate with $17 billion sales in 1970. He extended its interests from manufacturing of telegraph equipment into insurance, hotels, real estate management, and other areas. Under Geneen's management, ITT became the archetypal modern multinational conglomerate. ITT grew primarily through a series of approximately 350 acquisitions and mergers in 80 countries. Some of the largest of these were Hartford Fire Insurance Company (1970) and Sheraton Hotels.

ITT had many overseas interests. In Europe it had telephone subsidiaries in numerous countries. In Brazil, it owned a telephone company that would be nationalised by President João Goulart.

ITT also had some $200 million-worth of investments in Chile. Under Geneen's leadership, ITT funneled $350,000 to Allende's opponent, Jorge Alessandri.[2] When Allende won the presidential election, ITT offered the CIA $1,000,000 to defeat Allende, though the offer was rejected.[3] Declassified documents released by the CIA in 2000 reveal that ITT financially helped opponents of Salvador Allende's government prepare a military coup.[4][5] On September 28, 1973, an ITT building in New York City, New York, was bombed by the Weather Underground for involvement in the September 11 overthrow of the Allende government.[6][7]

[Farfromgeneva]

LMAO. You were talking about Israeli retaliatory strikes on Syria because Iran was smuggling weapons to Hezbollah.

I criticize USA and Israel for their warmongering evils too.

You don't ever seem to criticize the other side for when they blow up civilians. Let's see you critize Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran and ISIL and ISIS and other groups for their warmongering evils.

I condemn all violence. What bothers me the most is the continued use of our dollars to support imperialistic tyranny and repression of innocents. Again, Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government and provides humanitarian support. None of it would be needed if the USA would stay the hell out of there. If anything, we each need to criticize Washington for its role in causing all this.

... no doubt the US has a lot of innocent blood on its hands as well and we do bear some responsibility for helping to create this mess.

But going from that to “well f**k you all I’m right and you’re wrong because I like my historical and philosophical interpretation better and I’m tougher than you and you’re all bitaches who would never do do anything like hard a** me!”? Hardly a winning approach. Just an epileptic spasm basically. I’ve got a bad temper and my issues I get it. But I don’t pretend those are always perfectly rational and my cognitive abilities are optimized in those moments.

[Kismet]

Wait for the investigation to account for what happened & why. This is not the time for that divisive, partisan nonsense.

You mean like you do with Hunter Biden?

[Farfromgeneva]

Wait for the investigation to account for what happened & why. This is not the time for that divisive, partisan nonsense.

You mean like you do with Hunter Biden?

That IS the time for partisan nonsense because he said so!

[OCanada]

OS strikes agaim. He is do squeezable soft.

Benjamin Netanyahu’s political career os almost certainly over. be over. He has ruled over the worst military calamity in Israel’s recent history and cone what he could to redirect Israel from its core priorities.

Israel and the USA mishandled the intelligence the Egyptian government provided which was correct. A neighbor working for an alphabet agency, in response to a question, said both countries should have at least dome a cursory look into it.

Bengies’ strategy is flat out bad and has the potential to screw the globe.

Bengie may go to jail yet

[Kismet]

Excerpted from article - pretty scary situation and major lapses in security evident

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/13/worl ... -gaza.html

"The Secrets Hamas Knew About Israel’s Military

Hamas gunmen surged into Israel in a highly organized and meticulously planned operation that suggested a deep understanding of Israel’s weaknesses. Here is how the attacks unfolded.

The 10 gunmen from Gaza knew exactly how to find the Israeli intelligence hub — and how to get inside.

After crossing into Israel, they headed east on five motorcycles, two gunmen on each vehicle, shooting at passing civilian cars as they pressed forward.

Ten miles later, they veered off the road into a stretch of woodland, dismounting outside an unmanned gate to a military base. They blew open the barrier with a small explosive charge, entered the base and paused to take a group selfie. Then they shot dead an unarmed Israeli soldier dressed in a T-shirt.

For a moment, the attackers appeared uncertain about where to go next. Then one of them pulled something from his pocket: a color-coded map of the complex.

Reoriented, they found an unlocked door to a fortified building. Once inside, they entered a room filled with computers — the military intelligence hub. Under a bed in the room, they found two soldiers taking shelter.

The gunmen shot both dead.

This sequence was captured on a camera mounted on the head of a gunman who was later killed. The New York Times reviewed the footage, then verified the events by interviewing Israeli officials and checking Israeli military video of the attack as well.

hey provide chilling details of how Hamas, the militia that controls the Gaza Strip, managed to surprise and outmaneuver the most powerful military in the Middle East last Saturday — storming across the border, overrunning more than 30 square miles, taking more than 150 hostages and killing more than 1,300 people in the deadliest day for Israel in its 75-year history.

With meticulous planning and extraordinary awareness of Israel’s secrets and weaknesses, Hamas and its allies overwhelmed the length of Israel’s front with Gaza shortly after dawn, shocking a nation that has long taken the superiority of its military as an article of faith.

Using drones, Hamas destroyed key surveillance and communications towers along the border with Gaza, imposing vast blind spots on the Israeli military. With explosives and tractors, Hamas blew open gaps in the border barricades, allowing 200 attackers to pour through in the first wave and another 1,800 later that day, officials say. On motorcycles and in pickup trucks, the assailants surged into Israel, overwhelming at least eight military bases and waging terrorist attacks against civilians in more than 15 villages and cities.


Hamas planning documents, videos of the assault and interviews with security officials show that the group had a surprisingly sophisticated understanding of how the Israeli military operated, where it stationed specific units, and even the time it would take for reinforcements to arrive.

The Israeli military says that, once the war is over, it will investigate how Hamas managed to breach its defenses so easily.

But whether the armed forces were careless with their secrets or infiltrated by spies, the revelations have already unnerved officials and analysts who have questioned how the Israeli military — renowned for its intelligence gathering — could have inadvertently revealed so much information about its own operations.
he outcome was a staggering series of atrocities and massacres, in what the Israeli president, Isaac Herzog, has described as the worst mass killing of Jews in a single day since the Holocaust.

It shattered Israel’s aura of invincibility and provoked an Israeli counterattack on Gaza that has killed more than 1,900 Palestinians in a week, the ferocity of which has never been seen in Gaza.

It also upended assumptions that Hamas, long designated a terrorist group by Israel and many Western nations, had gradually become more interested in running Gaza than in using it to launch major assaults on Israel.

Hamas made Israelis think it was “busy with governing Gaza,” said Ali Barakeh, a Hamas leader, in a television interview on Monday. “All the while, under the table, Hamas was preparing for this big attack,” he added.

Hundreds of Hamas invaders, carrying guns, shoulder-borne rocket launchers and wearing the group’s green headband, were streaming through the village fields.

It was part of a coordinated assault that, documents and video show, assigned squads of assailants to precise targets. As some swept through military bases, others charged into residential areas, ruthlessly kidnapping and killing civilians.
All along the border, the Hamas gunmen had already overrun most, if not all, of the Israeli border bases.

Footage from the attackers’ head-mounted cameras, including the video of the raid on the intelligence hub, showed Hamas gunmen — from its highly trained Nukhba brigade — smashing through the barricades of several bases in the first light of the morning.

After breaching, they were merciless, gunning down some soldiers in their beds and underwear. In several bases, they knew exactly where the communications servers were and destroyed them, according to a senior Israeli army officer.

With much of their communications and surveillance systems down, the Israelis often couldn’t see the commandos coming. They found it harder to call for help and mount a response. In many cases, they were unable to protect themselves, let alone the surrounding civilian villages.

A Hamas planning document — found by Israeli emergency responders in one village — showed that the attackers were organized into well-defined units with clear goals and battle plans.One platoon had designated navigators, saboteurs and drivers — as well as mortar units in the rear to provide cover for the attackers, the document shows.

The group had a specific target — a kibbutz — and the attackers were tasked with storming the village from specific angles. They had estimates for how many Israeli troops were stationed in nearby posts, how many vehicles they had at their disposal, and how long it would take those Israeli relief forces to reach them.
The document is dated October 2022, suggesting that the attack had been planned for at least a year.

Elsewhere, other assailants were posted to key road junctions to ambush Israeli reinforcements, according to four senior officers and officials.

Some units had specific instructions to capture Israelis for use as bargaining chips in future prisoner exchanges with Israel.

“Take soldiers and civilians as prisoners and hostages to negotiate with,” the document said."

If even HALF of this is true Bibi and coalition government are TOAST.

[Farfromgeneva]

Boy this is setting up for the morons to start amplifying lies of how this is really a Zionist plot to allow it to horn like 9/11.

Just wait for it to put put out in the ether here…