Israel and West Bank Settlements

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Re: Israel and Zionism

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News agencies across the globe now confirming that Hamas murdered/beheaded babies and infants at Kfar Aza.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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Seacoaster(1) wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:46 pm News agencies across the globe now confirming that Hamas murdered/beheaded babies and infants at Kfar Aza.

Such behavior is forbidden under Koranic law as babies can be converted to Islam. Will be interesting to see if this claim can be proven.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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Matnum PI wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:33 pm
jhu72 wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:24 pm ... what would you call it?
I don't know. I'm not sure what you're talking about. Do you mean refugee camps? Concentration camps?! Jews are imprisoning Palestinians in concentration camps?! Holy crow...
... only Germans can build concentration camps? Concentration camps are built for the purpose of containment. What is Gaza if not this?
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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Brooklyn wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:50 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:46 pm News agencies across the globe now confirming that Hamas murdered/beheaded babies and infants at Kfar Aza.

Such behavior is forbidden under Koranic law as babies can be converted to Islam. Will be interesting to see if this claim can be proven.
Seems to have now been widely seen and confirmed:

https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/17 ... 49/photo/1

https://twitter.com/margothaddad/status ... 1463900641

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1 ... 6802881609
Last edited by Seacoaster(1) on Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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Seacoaster(1) wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:54 pm
Brooklyn wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:50 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:46 pm News agencies across the globe now confirming that Hamas murdered/beheaded babies and infants at Kfar Aza.

Such behavior is forbidden under Koranic law as babies can be converted to Islam. Will be interesting to see if this claim can be proven.
Seems to have now been widely seen and confirmed:

https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/17 ... 49/photo/1

https://twitter.com/margothaddad/status ... 1463900641
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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Seacoaster(1) wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:46 pm News agencies across the globe now confirming that Hamas murdered/beheaded babies and infants at Kfar Aza.
... I have no doubt that Hamas is committing atrocities.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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jhu72 wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:53 pm ... only Germans can build concentration camps? Concentration camps are built for the purpose of containment. What is Gaza if not this?
jhu72, though I don't know you personally, I'd like to believe that you should know better.

con·cen·tra·tion camp
/ˌkänsənˈtrāSH(ə)n ˌkamp/
noun
a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labor or to await mass execution. The term is most strongly associated with the several hundred camps established by the Nazis in Germany and occupied Europe in 1933–45, among the most infamous being Dachau, Belsen, and Auschwitz.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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Brooklyn wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:42 pm There is just no question that Gaza is worse than anything we saw under Apartheid. The world united in an effort to end that injustice but supported the injustices we see in Gaza today. The article I posted previously discusses that.
Brooklyn, do you believe the Palestinians in Israel are legitimately comparable to the blacks in South Africa? i.e. They're victims of bigotry and little else.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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Matnum PI wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:59 pm
jhu72 wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:53 pm ... only Germans can build concentration camps? Concentration camps are built for the purpose of containment. What is Gaza if not this?
jhu72, though I don't know you personally, I'd like to believe that you should know better.

con·cen·tra·tion camp
/ˌkänsənˈtrāSH(ə)n ˌkamp/
noun
a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labor or to await mass execution. The term is most strongly associated with the several hundred camps established by the Nazis in Germany and occupied Europe in 1933–45, among the most infamous being Dachau, Belsen, and Auschwitz.
Not all concentration camps were death camps. What will the world call it when the Israeli's are done with Gaza. What will the accepted descriptive term for Gaza be? What will the accepted descriptive term for Israeli's be; Jews worldwide? The decent world needs to help Israel save it's soul.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 10:41 am
Very interesting opinion. What credibility does she have being a British Jew? Someone correct me here because I never knew that the Romans declared this territory as Palestine to eradicate the memory of the Jewish people. I thought the Palestinians people existed for ions and ions. I need MD lax to tell us he is darn sure her opinion is irrelevant. 8-)
The Palestinian people have existed for many, many years. In the (Jewish) bible, they're referred to as Plishtim. Most (English) bibles refer to them as the Philistines. Like the Jews, the Palestinians have been around forever. I think her point is that even when the region was called Palestine, it wasn't governed by the Palestinians. The Palestinians have lived nomadic lives for many, many years. i.e. The Jews didn't take Israel from the Palestinians. They "took it" from the British.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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jhu72 wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 3:12 pm Not all concentration camps were death camps. What will the world call it when the Israeli's are done with Gaza. What will the accepted descriptive term for Gaza be? What will the accepted descriptive term for Israeli's be; Jews worldwide? The decent world needs to help Israel save it's soul.
Correct. Some were labor camps. These aren't concentration camps and to call them concentration camps, being run by Jews no less, is Wrong with a capital W.

I still don't know what you're referring to. Do you mean the refuge camps? Do you mean the entire area of Gaza?

"What will the accepted descriptive term for Israeli's be; Jews worldwide?"... What does this even mean? Why would Israelis be called anything but Israelis?

"The decent world needs to help Israel save it's soul."... You do you and, as a suggestion, focus on your own soul. But, again, you do you.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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jhu72 wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 3:12 pm
Matnum PI wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:59 pm
jhu72 wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:53 pm ... only Germans can build concentration camps? Concentration camps are built for the purpose of containment. What is Gaza if not this?
jhu72, though I don't know you personally, I'd like to believe that you should know better.

con·cen·tra·tion camp
/ˌkänsənˈtrāSH(ə)n ˌkamp/
noun
a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labor or to await mass execution. The term is most strongly associated with the several hundred camps established by the Nazis in Germany and occupied Europe in 1933–45, among the most infamous being Dachau, Belsen, and Auschwitz.
Not all concentration camps were death camps. What will the world call it when the Israeli's are done with Gaza. What will the accepted descriptive term for Gaza be? What will the accepted descriptive term for Israeli's be; Jews worldwide? The decent world needs to help Israel save it's soul.
So you already lost sight of why the Israelis are doing what they are doing? Look at it as an opportunity to see if a civilized society arises from the ashes. Hamas is responsible for the carnage they have created. The residents of Gaza will pay the price for what Hamas has done. William Tecumseh Sherman said that war is hell. It looks like good ole Gen. Sherman was right.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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jhu72 wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:57 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:46 pm News agencies across the globe now confirming that Hamas murdered/beheaded babies and infants at Kfar Aza.
... I have no doubt that Hamas is committing atrocities.
Must be why you haven't added the Palestinian flag next to your Ukraine flag :roll:
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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Matnum PI wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 3:17 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 10:41 am
Very interesting opinion. What credibility does she have being a British Jew? Someone correct me here because I never knew that the Romans declared this territory as Palestine to eradicate the memory of the Jewish people. I thought the Palestinians people existed for ions and ions. I need MD lax to tell us he is darn sure her opinion is irrelevant. 8-)
The Palestinian people have existed for many, many years. In the (Jewish) bible, they're referred to as Plishtim. Most (English) bibles refer to them as the Philistines. Like the Jews, the Palestinians have been around forever. I think her point is that even when the region was called Palestine, it wasn't governed by the Palestinians. The Palestinians have lived nomadic lives for many, many years. i.e. The Jews didn't take Israel from the Palestinians. They "took it" from the British.
The intent and purpose of the British was for the creation of 2 states living together in the same land. I don't ever see that happening. That has been the case since the war of Israeli independence way back in 1947. Juruesalem will always be the issue. The city is sacred to Jews and Muslims both. There is normally one truth in all wars... one side wins and one side loses. To the victor goes the spoils.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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Matnum PI wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 3:25 pm
jhu72 wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 3:12 pm Not all concentration camps were death camps. What will the world call it when the Israeli's are done with Gaza. What will the accepted descriptive term for Gaza be? What will the accepted descriptive term for Israeli's be; Jews worldwide? The decent world needs to help Israel save it's soul.
Correct. Some were labor camps. These aren't concentration camps and to call them concentration camps, being run by Jews no less, is Wrong with a capital W.

I still don't know what you're referring to. Do you mean the refuge camps? Do you mean the entire area of Gaza?

"What will the accepted descriptive term for Israeli's be; Jews worldwide?"... What does this even mean? Why would Israelis be called anything but Israelis?

"The decent world needs to help Israel save it's soul."... You do you and, as a suggestion, focus on your own soul. But, again, you do you.
Gaza as a whole. I think you get my point but just bristle at the analogy. Let's both hope the analogy is not better perfected by future events.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

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Matnum PI wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 3:09 pm
Brooklyn wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:42 pm There is just no question that Gaza is worse than anything we saw under Apartheid. The world united in an effort to end that injustice but supported the injustices we see in Gaza today. The article I posted previously discusses that.
Brooklyn, do you believe the Palestinians in Israel are legitimately comparable to the blacks in South Africa? i.e. They're victims of bigotry and little else.

HRW and the commentator in the link previously provided stated categorically stated that it is so. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I have no choice but to agree with that assessment. None of this excuses any retaliatory war atrocities, of course.
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Brooklyn »

Seacoaster(1) wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:54 pm
Brooklyn wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:50 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:46 pm News agencies across the globe now confirming that Hamas murdered/beheaded babies and infants at Kfar Aza.

Such behavior is forbidden under Koranic law as babies can be converted to Islam. Will be interesting to see if this claim can be proven.
Seems to have now been widely seen and confirmed:

https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/17 ... 49/photo/1

https://twitter.com/margothaddad/status ... 1463900641

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1 ... 6802881609


Shocking if true.

But do bear in mind that a few years ago we saw photos and films of children being massacred in the Syrian gas attacks. Later on we learned that it was all staged. Let us hope that none of what is being reported is true. We shall see what happens next.
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

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Re: Israel and Zionism

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cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 3:36 pm The intent and purpose of the British was for the creation of 2 states living together in the same land. I don't ever see that happening. That has been the case since the war of Israeli independence way back in 1947. Juruesalem will always be the issue. The city is sacred to Jews and Muslims both. There is normally one truth in all wars... one side wins and one side loses. To the victor goes the spoils.
Jews, Palestinians, Arabs, Christians, etc. all lived in Israel under the British mandate with relative peace for many years. No 2 state solution was necessary. Issues arose when Jews started coming to Israel in larger numbers. For the Palestinians and seemingly more for the neighboring Arab countries. Post WWII, the numbers jumped and there was a direct correlation between the number of Jews coming to Israel and the surliness of the arabs. And the Jews weren't just going to Jerusalem. Heck, the majority of the Jews weren't religious. It's not that the arabs don't want the Jews in Jerusalem. They don't want the Jews in Israel. Little different than the Germans and others didn't want the Jews in Europe. Not a simple answer for the Jews then nor now.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by jhu72 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 3:26 pm
jhu72 wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 3:12 pm
Matnum PI wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:59 pm
jhu72 wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:53 pm ... only Germans can build concentration camps? Concentration camps are built for the purpose of containment. What is Gaza if not this?
jhu72, though I don't know you personally, I'd like to believe that you should know better.

con·cen·tra·tion camp
/ˌkänsənˈtrāSH(ə)n ˌkamp/
noun
a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labor or to await mass execution. The term is most strongly associated with the several hundred camps established by the Nazis in Germany and occupied Europe in 1933–45, among the most infamous being Dachau, Belsen, and Auschwitz.
Not all concentration camps were death camps. What will the world call it when the Israeli's are done with Gaza. What will the accepted descriptive term for Gaza be? What will the accepted descriptive term for Israeli's be; Jews worldwide? The decent world needs to help Israel save it's soul.
So you already lost sight of why the Israelis are doing what they are doing? Look at it as an opportunity to see if a civilized society arises from the ashes. Hamas is responsible for the carnage they have created. The residents of Gaza will pay the price for what Hamas has done. William Tecumseh Sherman said that war is hell. It looks like good ole Gen. Sherman was right.
... I've lost sight of nothing, other than the dog. He was here just minute ago.
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Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by jhu72 »

tech37 wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 3:31 pm
jhu72 wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:57 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:46 pm News agencies across the globe now confirming that Hamas murdered/beheaded babies and infants at Kfar Aza.
... I have no doubt that Hamas is committing atrocities.
Must be why you haven't added the Palestinian flag next to your Ukraine flag :roll:
... do you feel better if I add that I have no question as to whether the Israelis will commit atrocities if they haven't already? By some account's roving Israeli youth have been terrorizing Palestinians in Israel in recent years, increasingly so since Bibi has been re-elected? Even some Christians have been complaining they are not wanted in Israel since Bibi is back.
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