Israel and West Bank Settlements

The odds are excellent that you will leave this forum hating someone.
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23842
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Farfromgeneva »

PizzaSnake wrote: Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:04 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: Sat Oct 07, 2023 7:04 pm
"That Voight-Kampf test of yours. Did you ever tried to take that test yourself? Deckard?"

Dog I like that movie...

But Daryl looked better in Splash.
This one:

Image
Ahh thought you meant you liked the movie Her.

Blade Runner is great but my dad let me watch it a little too young and her makeup led me to not really digging clowns got a while.
Harvard University, out
University of Utah, in

I am going to get a 4.0 in damage.

(Afan jealous he didn’t do this first)
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23842
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Farfromgeneva »

PizzaSnake wrote: Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:04 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: Sat Oct 07, 2023 7:04 pm
"That Voight-Kampf test of yours. Did you ever tried to take that test yourself? Deckard?"

Dog I like that movie...

But Daryl looked better in Splash.
This one:

Image
I like Darryl best in her role managing Charlie Sheen in the limo in Wall St personally.
Harvard University, out
University of Utah, in

I am going to get a 4.0 in damage.

(Afan jealous he didn’t do this first)
Seacoaster(1)
Posts: 5361
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:49 am

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

Reports that Hama leadership visited Moscow and the Czar's lackey, Lavrov, in March. Hamas using advanced drones to strike Israeli combat targets.
Russian TV now broadcasting the death of Israeli citizens and military with glee.
Seacoaster(1)
Posts: 5361
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:49 am

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

HCR October 7, 2023; good column (with sources):

"Early this morning, Eastern Daylight Time, Hamas militants broke out of the Gaza Strip, where approximately 2 million Palestinians live, largely unable to leave because of the extensive restrictions Israel has imposed. They pushed as far as 15 miles (about 24 kilometers) into Israel, taking over at least 22 towns and firing at least 2,500 rockets. They have killed at least 250 Israelis, wounded more than 1,500 others, and taken hostages. The attack was a surprise, having an effect on Israelis that observers are comparing to the effect of 9-11 on people in the U.S.

Hamas is a group of Palestinian militants that make up one of the two major political parties in the Palestinian Territories, which consist of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Hamas was established in 1987 and gained control of the Gaza Strip in 2007. Since then, Hamas and the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) have periodically exchanged fire. In May 2021 that tension turned into an 11-day conflict that has simmered along the security fence between Israel and Gaza ever since.

In a video address to Israelis, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said: “We are at war and we will win it.” Israelis have killed at least 232 people and wounded more than 1,700 in retaliation for the attack. He promised the Israeli military will “take revenge for this black day” but that it “will take time.” He warned that Israel would turn “into ruins” the places where Hamas operates, and told residents of Gaza to “get out of there now,” although they have no way to leave.

There are serious questions about how the Netanyahu government did not see this attack coming. It was either a spectacular intelligence failure or a security failure or both, and it strikes at the heart of the Netanyahu government’s promise to keep the country safe. At the same time, the attack is making Israelis rally together. The hundreds of thousands of Israelis who have been protesting Netanyahu’s strengthening hold on the government have said they would come together in this dangerous moment.

A number of countries, including the U.S., have designated Hamas a terrorist organization. It is backed by Iran, which provides money and weapons, and last month high-level Iranian officials apparently met with Hamas leaders in Lebanon. Today Iran praised Hamas for the attack. Iran has opposed the recent talks between Saudi Arabia and Israel about normalizing relations. Since the decline of Iraq as an independent power, Iran has viewed the combination of Israel, its main enemy, with Saudi Arabia, its main rival for power, as the greatest threat to its security in the region.

Iran and Russia are allies whose relationship has strengthened considerably as the Russian war against Ukraine has pushed the two increasingly isolated countries together to resist Western sanctions. Former Russian president and deputy chair of Russia’s Security Council Dmitry Medvedev said the attack was “expected,” and used it to accuse the U.S.

The Middle East, rather than Ukraine, was “what Washington and its allies should be busy with,” he said. “But instead of actively working at Palestinian-Israeli settlement,” he went on, “these morons have interfered with us, and are providing the neo-Nazis with full-scale aid, pitting the two closely related peoples against each other. What can stop America’s manic obsession to incite conflicts all over the planet?”

Today’s assessment of the Russian offensive in Ukraine by the Institute for the Study of War said: “The Kremlin is already [exploiting] and will likely continue to exploit the Hamas attacks in Israel to advance several information operations intended to reduce US and Western support and attention to Ukraine.”


Both Saudi Arabia and Qatar have contextualized the attack by calling out Israel’s treatment of the Palestinian people but also are calling for restraint and for the violence to stop.

India, too, has expressed solidarity with Israel.

In the U.S., the administration suggested that it sees a larger hand behind this attack and is working with partners and allies to contain the violence. In a statement, President Biden said the United States “unequivocally condemns this appalling assault against Israel by Hamas terrorists from Gaza, and I made clear to Prime Minister Netanyahu that we stand ready to offer all appropriate means of support to the Government and people of Israel.” It went on with a warning—“The United States warns against any other party hostile to Israel seeking advantage in this situation”—and a threat: “My Administration’s support for Israel’s security is rock solid and unwavering.”

Biden told reporters that he has been in contact with the King of Jordan, has spoken with members of Congress, and is in close touch with Netanyahu. He says he has directed the national security team to engage with their Israeli counterparts—“military to military, intelligence to intelligence,...diplomat to diplomat—to make sure Israel has what it needs.” He has also directed his team “to remain in constant contact with leaders throughout the region, including Egypt, Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Oman, the UAE, as well as with our European partners and the Palestinian Authority.”

Secretary of State Antony Blinken spoke today with the presidents of Israel and the Palestinian Authority, which controls the West Bank, urging Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas to condemn the attack and to work to restore calm. He also spoke with the foreign ministers of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar, Germany, Italy, the United Kingdom, and Türkiye, as well as the European Union’s High Representative for foreign affairs. Blinken urged the EU, Türkiye, and the so-called Quint countries—France, Germany, Italy, the U.K., and the U.S.—to continue to engage on the issue, and he promised to stay in close contact with all the parties he talked to today.

In the United States, Republicans used the moment to attack President Biden. In an echo of a similar lie from Trump, who falsely claimed the Obama administration had paid $150 billion to Iran for a nuclear agreement, they took to social media in a flood to say that the U.S. had funded the attack on Israel because it had recently “paid” $6 billion to Iran.

The statement was wrong across the board: the U.S did not pay Iran anything. It helped to ease restrictions on Iranian money that had been frozen in South Korea, enabling Qatar to take control of the money and use it for humanitarian aid. In any case, the money has not yet been transferred. Still, it was a surprising decision to attack the U.S. government at a time when the country would normally be united behind Israel.

Nonetheless, the attack has made the national implications of Republicans’ own troubles even more clear. In times of crisis, the executive branch briefs the so-called Gang of Eight on classified intelligence matters. The Gang of Eight is made up of the leaders of each party in the House and the Senate, and the leaders of each party in each chamber’s intelligence committee. But without a House Speaker, this leading intelligence group is missing a key member. It is not clear if the acting speaker, Representative Patrick McHenry (R-NC), who was tapped by former speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) and not elected, can participate.

The lack of a speaker is a problem. Although House committees can still meet, the House can’t do much. McHenry is responsible mostly for overseeing the election of a new speaker; he does not have the authority to bring bills or even resolutions to the floor.




Notes:

https://apnews.com/article/israel-pales ... 9284fc37d2

https://www.state.gov/reports/2016-repo ... rritories/

https://www.state.gov/reports/2021-coun ... ng%20areas.

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/ ... aza-strip/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... now-so-far

https://thehill.com/policy/internationa ... velopment/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... since-1973

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... in-israel/

https://ecfr.eu/publication/alone-toget ... ationship/

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... in-israel/

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/18/politics ... index.html

https://apnews.com/article/iran-north-a ... ck-727282b

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/worl ... ussia.html

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/201 ... 6f95830000

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... nterparts/

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... r-fidan-7/

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... t-abbas-5/

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... -farhan-4/

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/0 ... t-00120491

https://www.politico.eu/article/iran-ha ... jerusalem/

https://twitter.com/UnderSecTFI/status/ ... 9980464482

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2023 ... ay/391039/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/world-rea ... on-israel/

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgr ... ber-7-2023
a fan
Posts: 19705
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by a fan »

Seacoaster(1) wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:05 am Reports that Hama leadership visited Moscow and the Czar's lackey, Lavrov, in March. Hamas using advanced drones to strike Israeli combat targets.
Russian TV now broadcasting the death of Israeli citizens and military with glee.
So much for Putin's claim that they're fighting the Nazis, eh?
PizzaSnake
Posts: 5365
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:36 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by PizzaSnake »

Seacoaster(1) wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:12 am HCR October 7, 2023; good column (with sources):

"Early this morning, Eastern Daylight Time, Hamas militants broke out of the Gaza Strip, where approximately 2 million Palestinians live, largely unable to leave because of the extensive restrictions Israel has imposed. They pushed as far as 15 miles (about 24 kilometers) into Israel, taking over at least 22 towns and firing at least 2,500 rockets. They have killed at least 250 Israelis, wounded more than 1,500 others, and taken hostages. The attack was a surprise, having an effect on Israelis that observers are comparing to the effect of 9-11 on people in the U.S.

Hamas is a group of Palestinian militants that make up one of the two major political parties in the Palestinian Territories, which consist of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Hamas was established in 1987 and gained control of the Gaza Strip in 2007. Since then, Hamas and the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) have periodically exchanged fire. In May 2021 that tension turned into an 11-day conflict that has simmered along the security fence between Israel and Gaza ever since.

In a video address to Israelis, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said: “We are at war and we will win it.” Israelis have killed at least 232 people and wounded more than 1,700 in retaliation for the attack. He promised the Israeli military will “take revenge for this black day” but that it “will take time.” He warned that Israel would turn “into ruins” the places where Hamas operates, and told residents of Gaza to “get out of there now,” although they have no way to leave.

There are serious questions about how the Netanyahu government did not see this attack coming. It was either a spectacular intelligence failure or a security failure or both, and it strikes at the heart of the Netanyahu government’s promise to keep the country safe. At the same time, the attack is making Israelis rally together. The hundreds of thousands of Israelis who have been protesting Netanyahu’s strengthening hold on the government have said they would come together in this dangerous moment.

A number of countries, including the U.S., have designated Hamas a terrorist organization. It is backed by Iran, which provides money and weapons, and last month high-level Iranian officials apparently met with Hamas leaders in Lebanon. Today Iran praised Hamas for the attack. Iran has opposed the recent talks between Saudi Arabia and Israel about normalizing relations. Since the decline of Iraq as an independent power, Iran has viewed the combination of Israel, its main enemy, with Saudi Arabia, its main rival for power, as the greatest threat to its security in the region.

Iran and Russia are allies whose relationship has strengthened considerably as the Russian war against Ukraine has pushed the two increasingly isolated countries together to resist Western sanctions. Former Russian president and deputy chair of Russia’s Security Council Dmitry Medvedev said the attack was “expected,” and used it to accuse the U.S.

The Middle East, rather than Ukraine, was “what Washington and its allies should be busy with,” he said. “But instead of actively working at Palestinian-Israeli settlement,” he went on, “these morons have interfered with us, and are providing the neo-Nazis with full-scale aid, pitting the two closely related peoples against each other. What can stop America’s manic obsession to incite conflicts all over the planet?”

Today’s assessment of the Russian offensive in Ukraine by the Institute for the Study of War said: “The Kremlin is already [exploiting] and will likely continue to exploit the Hamas attacks in Israel to advance several information operations intended to reduce US and Western support and attention to Ukraine.”


Both Saudi Arabia and Qatar have contextualized the attack by calling out Israel’s treatment of the Palestinian people but also are calling for restraint and for the violence to stop.

India, too, has expressed solidarity with Israel.

In the U.S., the administration suggested that it sees a larger hand behind this attack and is working with partners and allies to contain the violence. In a statement, President Biden said the United States “unequivocally condemns this appalling assault against Israel by Hamas terrorists from Gaza, and I made clear to Prime Minister Netanyahu that we stand ready to offer all appropriate means of support to the Government and people of Israel.” It went on with a warning—“The United States warns against any other party hostile to Israel seeking advantage in this situation”—and a threat: “My Administration’s support for Israel’s security is rock solid and unwavering.”

Biden told reporters that he has been in contact with the King of Jordan, has spoken with members of Congress, and is in close touch with Netanyahu. He says he has directed the national security team to engage with their Israeli counterparts—“military to military, intelligence to intelligence,...diplomat to diplomat—to make sure Israel has what it needs.” He has also directed his team “to remain in constant contact with leaders throughout the region, including Egypt, Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Oman, the UAE, as well as with our European partners and the Palestinian Authority.”

Secretary of State Antony Blinken spoke today with the presidents of Israel and the Palestinian Authority, which controls the West Bank, urging Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas to condemn the attack and to work to restore calm. He also spoke with the foreign ministers of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar, Germany, Italy, the United Kingdom, and Türkiye, as well as the European Union’s High Representative for foreign affairs. Blinken urged the EU, Türkiye, and the so-called Quint countries—France, Germany, Italy, the U.K., and the U.S.—to continue to engage on the issue, and he promised to stay in close contact with all the parties he talked to today.

In the United States, Republicans used the moment to attack President Biden. In an echo of a similar lie from Trump, who falsely claimed the Obama administration had paid $150 billion to Iran for a nuclear agreement, they took to social media in a flood to say that the U.S. had funded the attack on Israel because it had recently “paid” $6 billion to Iran.

The statement was wrong across the board: the U.S did not pay Iran anything. It helped to ease restrictions on Iranian money that had been frozen in South Korea, enabling Qatar to take control of the money and use it for humanitarian aid. In any case, the money has not yet been transferred. Still, it was a surprising decision to attack the U.S. government at a time when the country would normally be united behind Israel.

Nonetheless, the attack has made the national implications of Republicans’ own troubles even more clear. In times of crisis, the executive branch briefs the so-called Gang of Eight on classified intelligence matters. The Gang of Eight is made up of the leaders of each party in the House and the Senate, and the leaders of each party in each chamber’s intelligence committee. But without a House Speaker, this leading intelligence group is missing a key member. It is not clear if the acting speaker, Representative Patrick McHenry (R-NC), who was tapped by former speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) and not elected, can participate.

The lack of a speaker is a problem. Although House committees can still meet, the House can’t do much. McHenry is responsible mostly for overseeing the election of a new speaker; he does not have the authority to bring bills or even resolutions to the floor.




Notes:

https://apnews.com/article/israel-pales ... 9284fc37d2

https://www.state.gov/reports/2016-repo ... rritories/

https://www.state.gov/reports/2021-coun ... ng%20areas.

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/ ... aza-strip/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... now-so-far

https://thehill.com/policy/internationa ... velopment/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... since-1973

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... in-israel/

https://ecfr.eu/publication/alone-toget ... ationship/

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... in-israel/

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/18/politics ... index.html

https://apnews.com/article/iran-north-a ... ck-727282b

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/worl ... ussia.html

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/201 ... 6f95830000

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... nterparts/

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... r-fidan-7/

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... t-abbas-5/

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... -farhan-4/

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/0 ... t-00120491

https://www.politico.eu/article/iran-ha ... jerusalem/

https://twitter.com/UnderSecTFI/status/ ... 9980464482

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2023 ... ay/391039/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/world-rea ... on-israel/

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgr ... ber-7-2023
So, maybe this more like Binyamin’s Pearl Harbor than 9-11?

“The hundreds of thousands of Israelis who have been protesting Netanyahu’s strengthening hold on the government have said they would come together in this dangerous moment. ”
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34263
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

a fan wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:36 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:05 am Reports that Hama leadership visited Moscow and the Czar's lackey, Lavrov, in March. Hamas using advanced drones to strike Israeli combat targets.
Russian TV now broadcasting the death of Israeli citizens and military with glee.
So much for Putin's claim that they're fighting the Nazis, eh?
Those drones are from Iran?
“I wish you would!”
Seacoaster(1)
Posts: 5361
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:49 am

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:58 pm
a fan wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:36 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:05 am Reports that Hama leadership visited Moscow and the Czar's lackey, Lavrov, in March. Hamas using advanced drones to strike Israeli combat targets.
Russian TV now broadcasting the death of Israeli citizens and military with glee.
So much for Putin's claim that they're fighting the Nazis, eh?
Those drones are from Iran?
Unclear. I haven’t see any credible report to that effect. Wait, I’ll ask Niki Haley….

She says “Joe Biden, woke drone.”
User avatar
RedFromMI
Posts: 5080
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:42 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by RedFromMI »

Seacoaster(1) wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 1:08 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:58 pm
a fan wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:36 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:05 am Reports that Hama leadership visited Moscow and the Czar's lackey, Lavrov, in March. Hamas using advanced drones to strike Israeli combat targets.
Russian TV now broadcasting the death of Israeli citizens and military with glee.
So much for Putin's claim that they're fighting the Nazis, eh?
Those drones are from Iran?
Unclear. I haven’t see any credible report to that effect. Wait, I’ll ask Niki Haley….

She says “Joe Biden, woke drone.”
From what I have seen from video they look identical to the Iranian drones that Russia is using in Ukraine. Maybe not full identification, but pretty good.
Seacoaster(1)
Posts: 5361
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:49 am

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

RedFromMI wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 1:12 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 1:08 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:58 pm
a fan wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:36 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:05 am Reports that Hama leadership visited Moscow and the Czar's lackey, Lavrov, in March. Hamas using advanced drones to strike Israeli combat targets.
Russian TV now broadcasting the death of Israeli citizens and military with glee.
So much for Putin's claim that they're fighting the Nazis, eh?
Those drones are from Iran?
Unclear. I haven’t see any credible report to that effect. Wait, I’ll ask Niki Haley….

She says “Joe Biden, woke drone.”
From what I have seen from video they look identical to the Iranian drones that Russia is using in Ukraine. Maybe not full identification, but pretty good.
Certainly would make sense. It will be interesting to see if the intelligence agencies can unravel what organizations as were supporting the preparation and execution of this catastrophe.

And see this:

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1 ... 0287918548
User avatar
Kismet
Posts: 5140
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:42 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Kismet »

Seacoaster(1) wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 1:22 pm
RedFromMI wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 1:12 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 1:08 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:58 pm
a fan wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:36 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:05 am Reports that Hama leadership visited Moscow and the Czar's lackey, Lavrov, in March. Hamas using advanced drones to strike Israeli combat targets.
Russian TV now broadcasting the death of Israeli citizens and military with glee.
So much for Putin's claim that they're fighting the Nazis, eh?
Those drones are from Iran?
Unclear. I haven’t see any credible report to that effect. Wait, I’ll ask Niki Haley….

She says “Joe Biden, woke drone.”
From what I have seen from video they look identical to the Iranian drones that Russia is using in Ukraine. Maybe not full identification, but pretty good.
Certainly would make sense. It will be interesting to see if the intelligence agencies can unravel what organizations as were supporting the preparation and execution of this catastrophe.
Some reports now detailing potential jamming/cyber interference with video cameras and sensors at the border which resulted in a lack of communication within Israeli forces as to what exactly was going on at the onset of the attacks.

New reports of relocation of thousands of US military service members, the USS Gerald R Ford carrier strike group (carrier, cruiser, destroyers and aircraft) to the Eastern Med and additional USAF F35s, F15s, F16s, and A10s all to the region. Talk they will be part of mass evacuation of US Citizens out of Israel.
User avatar
cradleandshoot
Posts: 15574
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by cradleandshoot »

PizzaSnake wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:49 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:12 am HCR October 7, 2023; good column (with sources):

"Early this morning, Eastern Daylight Time, Hamas militants broke out of the Gaza Strip, where approximately 2 million Palestinians live, largely unable to leave because of the extensive restrictions Israel has imposed. They pushed as far as 15 miles (about 24 kilometers) into Israel, taking over at least 22 towns and firing at least 2,500 rockets. They have killed at least 250 Israelis, wounded more than 1,500 others, and taken hostages. The attack was a surprise, having an effect on Israelis that observers are comparing to the effect of 9-11 on people in the U.S.

Hamas is a group of Palestinian militants that make up one of the two major political parties in the Palestinian Territories, which consist of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Hamas was established in 1987 and gained control of the Gaza Strip in 2007. Since then, Hamas and the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) have periodically exchanged fire. In May 2021 that tension turned into an 11-day conflict that has simmered along the security fence between Israel and Gaza ever since.

In a video address to Israelis, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said: “We are at war and we will win it.” Israelis have killed at least 232 people and wounded more than 1,700 in retaliation for the attack. He promised the Israeli military will “take revenge for this black day” but that it “will take time.” He warned that Israel would turn “into ruins” the places where Hamas operates, and told residents of Gaza to “get out of there now,” although they have no way to leave.

There are serious questions about how the Netanyahu government did not see this attack coming. It was either a spectacular intelligence failure or a security failure or both, and it strikes at the heart of the Netanyahu government’s promise to keep the country safe. At the same time, the attack is making Israelis rally together. The hundreds of thousands of Israelis who have been protesting Netanyahu’s strengthening hold on the government have said they would come together in this dangerous moment.

A number of countries, including the U.S., have designated Hamas a terrorist organization. It is backed by Iran, which provides money and weapons, and last month high-level Iranian officials apparently met with Hamas leaders in Lebanon. Today Iran praised Hamas for the attack. Iran has opposed the recent talks between Saudi Arabia and Israel about normalizing relations. Since the decline of Iraq as an independent power, Iran has viewed the combination of Israel, its main enemy, with Saudi Arabia, its main rival for power, as the greatest threat to its security in the region.

Iran and Russia are allies whose relationship has strengthened considerably as the Russian war against Ukraine has pushed the two increasingly isolated countries together to resist Western sanctions. Former Russian president and deputy chair of Russia’s Security Council Dmitry Medvedev said the attack was “expected,” and used it to accuse the U.S.

The Middle East, rather than Ukraine, was “what Washington and its allies should be busy with,” he said. “But instead of actively working at Palestinian-Israeli settlement,” he went on, “these morons have interfered with us, and are providing the neo-Nazis with full-scale aid, pitting the two closely related peoples against each other. What can stop America’s manic obsession to incite conflicts all over the planet?”

Today’s assessment of the Russian offensive in Ukraine by the Institute for the Study of War said: “The Kremlin is already [exploiting] and will likely continue to exploit the Hamas attacks in Israel to advance several information operations intended to reduce US and Western support and attention to Ukraine.”


Both Saudi Arabia and Qatar have contextualized the attack by calling out Israel’s treatment of the Palestinian people but also are calling for restraint and for the violence to stop.

India, too, has expressed solidarity with Israel.

In the U.S., the administration suggested that it sees a larger hand behind this attack and is working with partners and allies to contain the violence. In a statement, President Biden said the United States “unequivocally condemns this appalling assault against Israel by Hamas terrorists from Gaza, and I made clear to Prime Minister Netanyahu that we stand ready to offer all appropriate means of support to the Government and people of Israel.” It went on with a warning—“The United States warns against any other party hostile to Israel seeking advantage in this situation”—and a threat: “My Administration’s support for Israel’s security is rock solid and unwavering.”

Biden told reporters that he has been in contact with the King of Jordan, has spoken with members of Congress, and is in close touch with Netanyahu. He says he has directed the national security team to engage with their Israeli counterparts—“military to military, intelligence to intelligence,...diplomat to diplomat—to make sure Israel has what it needs.” He has also directed his team “to remain in constant contact with leaders throughout the region, including Egypt, Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Oman, the UAE, as well as with our European partners and the Palestinian Authority.”

Secretary of State Antony Blinken spoke today with the presidents of Israel and the Palestinian Authority, which controls the West Bank, urging Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas to condemn the attack and to work to restore calm. He also spoke with the foreign ministers of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar, Germany, Italy, the United Kingdom, and Türkiye, as well as the European Union’s High Representative for foreign affairs. Blinken urged the EU, Türkiye, and the so-called Quint countries—France, Germany, Italy, the U.K., and the U.S.—to continue to engage on the issue, and he promised to stay in close contact with all the parties he talked to today.

In the United States, Republicans used the moment to attack President Biden. In an echo of a similar lie from Trump, who falsely claimed the Obama administration had paid $150 billion to Iran for a nuclear agreement, they took to social media in a flood to say that the U.S. had funded the attack on Israel because it had recently “paid” $6 billion to Iran.

The statement was wrong across the board: the U.S did not pay Iran anything. It helped to ease restrictions on Iranian money that had been frozen in South Korea, enabling Qatar to take control of the money and use it for humanitarian aid. In any case, the money has not yet been transferred. Still, it was a surprising decision to attack the U.S. government at a time when the country would normally be united behind Israel.

Nonetheless, the attack has made the national implications of Republicans’ own troubles even more clear. In times of crisis, the executive branch briefs the so-called Gang of Eight on classified intelligence matters. The Gang of Eight is made up of the leaders of each party in the House and the Senate, and the leaders of each party in each chamber’s intelligence committee. But without a House Speaker, this leading intelligence group is missing a key member. It is not clear if the acting speaker, Representative Patrick McHenry (R-NC), who was tapped by former speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) and not elected, can participate.

The lack of a speaker is a problem. Although House committees can still meet, the House can’t do much. McHenry is responsible mostly for overseeing the election of a new speaker; he does not have the authority to bring bills or even resolutions to the floor.




Notes:

https://apnews.com/article/israel-pales ... 9284fc37d2

https://www.state.gov/reports/2016-repo ... rritories/

https://www.state.gov/reports/2021-coun ... ng%20areas.

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/ ... aza-strip/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... now-so-far

https://thehill.com/policy/internationa ... velopment/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... since-1973

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... in-israel/

https://ecfr.eu/publication/alone-toget ... ationship/

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... in-israel/

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/18/politics ... index.html

https://apnews.com/article/iran-north-a ... ck-727282b

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/worl ... ussia.html

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/201 ... 6f95830000

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... nterparts/

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... r-fidan-7/

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... t-abbas-5/

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... -farhan-4/

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/0 ... t-00120491

https://www.politico.eu/article/iran-ha ... jerusalem/

https://twitter.com/UnderSecTFI/status/ ... 9980464482

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2023 ... ay/391039/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/world-rea ... on-israel/

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgr ... ber-7-2023
So, maybe this more like Binyamin’s Pearl Harbor than 9-11?

“The hundreds of thousands of Israelis who have been protesting Netanyahu’s strengthening hold on the government have said they would come together in this dangerous moment. ”
If you knew your history you would understand how well Pearl Harbor worked out for the Japanese. :roll: A sneak attack is I believe it was Yamamoto who proclaimed I fear what he have done is awaken a sleeping giant. Now Hamas had better have a plan B. I'm betting Israel has one plan A right now and that involves killing as many members of Hamas as soon as possible.
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
Seacoaster(1)
Posts: 5361
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:49 am

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 3:16 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:49 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:12 am HCR October 7, 2023; good column (with sources):

"Early this morning, Eastern Daylight Time, Hamas militants broke out of the Gaza Strip, where approximately 2 million Palestinians live, largely unable to leave because of the extensive restrictions Israel has imposed. They pushed as far as 15 miles (about 24 kilometers) into Israel, taking over at least 22 towns and firing at least 2,500 rockets. They have killed at least 250 Israelis, wounded more than 1,500 others, and taken hostages. The attack was a surprise, having an effect on Israelis that observers are comparing to the effect of 9-11 on people in the U.S.

Hamas is a group of Palestinian militants that make up one of the two major political parties in the Palestinian Territories, which consist of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Hamas was established in 1987 and gained control of the Gaza Strip in 2007. Since then, Hamas and the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) have periodically exchanged fire. In May 2021 that tension turned into an 11-day conflict that has simmered along the security fence between Israel and Gaza ever since.

In a video address to Israelis, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said: “We are at war and we will win it.” Israelis have killed at least 232 people and wounded more than 1,700 in retaliation for the attack. He promised the Israeli military will “take revenge for this black day” but that it “will take time.” He warned that Israel would turn “into ruins” the places where Hamas operates, and told residents of Gaza to “get out of there now,” although they have no way to leave.

There are serious questions about how the Netanyahu government did not see this attack coming. It was either a spectacular intelligence failure or a security failure or both, and it strikes at the heart of the Netanyahu government’s promise to keep the country safe. At the same time, the attack is making Israelis rally together. The hundreds of thousands of Israelis who have been protesting Netanyahu’s strengthening hold on the government have said they would come together in this dangerous moment.

A number of countries, including the U.S., have designated Hamas a terrorist organization. It is backed by Iran, which provides money and weapons, and last month high-level Iranian officials apparently met with Hamas leaders in Lebanon. Today Iran praised Hamas for the attack. Iran has opposed the recent talks between Saudi Arabia and Israel about normalizing relations. Since the decline of Iraq as an independent power, Iran has viewed the combination of Israel, its main enemy, with Saudi Arabia, its main rival for power, as the greatest threat to its security in the region.

Iran and Russia are allies whose relationship has strengthened considerably as the Russian war against Ukraine has pushed the two increasingly isolated countries together to resist Western sanctions. Former Russian president and deputy chair of Russia’s Security Council Dmitry Medvedev said the attack was “expected,” and used it to accuse the U.S.

The Middle East, rather than Ukraine, was “what Washington and its allies should be busy with,” he said. “But instead of actively working at Palestinian-Israeli settlement,” he went on, “these morons have interfered with us, and are providing the neo-Nazis with full-scale aid, pitting the two closely related peoples against each other. What can stop America’s manic obsession to incite conflicts all over the planet?”

Today’s assessment of the Russian offensive in Ukraine by the Institute for the Study of War said: “The Kremlin is already [exploiting] and will likely continue to exploit the Hamas attacks in Israel to advance several information operations intended to reduce US and Western support and attention to Ukraine.”


Both Saudi Arabia and Qatar have contextualized the attack by calling out Israel’s treatment of the Palestinian people but also are calling for restraint and for the violence to stop.

India, too, has expressed solidarity with Israel.

In the U.S., the administration suggested that it sees a larger hand behind this attack and is working with partners and allies to contain the violence. In a statement, President Biden said the United States “unequivocally condemns this appalling assault against Israel by Hamas terrorists from Gaza, and I made clear to Prime Minister Netanyahu that we stand ready to offer all appropriate means of support to the Government and people of Israel.” It went on with a warning—“The United States warns against any other party hostile to Israel seeking advantage in this situation”—and a threat: “My Administration’s support for Israel’s security is rock solid and unwavering.”

Biden told reporters that he has been in contact with the King of Jordan, has spoken with members of Congress, and is in close touch with Netanyahu. He says he has directed the national security team to engage with their Israeli counterparts—“military to military, intelligence to intelligence,...diplomat to diplomat—to make sure Israel has what it needs.” He has also directed his team “to remain in constant contact with leaders throughout the region, including Egypt, Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Oman, the UAE, as well as with our European partners and the Palestinian Authority.”

Secretary of State Antony Blinken spoke today with the presidents of Israel and the Palestinian Authority, which controls the West Bank, urging Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas to condemn the attack and to work to restore calm. He also spoke with the foreign ministers of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar, Germany, Italy, the United Kingdom, and Türkiye, as well as the European Union’s High Representative for foreign affairs. Blinken urged the EU, Türkiye, and the so-called Quint countries—France, Germany, Italy, the U.K., and the U.S.—to continue to engage on the issue, and he promised to stay in close contact with all the parties he talked to today.

In the United States, Republicans used the moment to attack President Biden. In an echo of a similar lie from Trump, who falsely claimed the Obama administration had paid $150 billion to Iran for a nuclear agreement, they took to social media in a flood to say that the U.S. had funded the attack on Israel because it had recently “paid” $6 billion to Iran.

The statement was wrong across the board: the U.S did not pay Iran anything. It helped to ease restrictions on Iranian money that had been frozen in South Korea, enabling Qatar to take control of the money and use it for humanitarian aid. In any case, the money has not yet been transferred. Still, it was a surprising decision to attack the U.S. government at a time when the country would normally be united behind Israel.

Nonetheless, the attack has made the national implications of Republicans’ own troubles even more clear. In times of crisis, the executive branch briefs the so-called Gang of Eight on classified intelligence matters. The Gang of Eight is made up of the leaders of each party in the House and the Senate, and the leaders of each party in each chamber’s intelligence committee. But without a House Speaker, this leading intelligence group is missing a key member. It is not clear if the acting speaker, Representative Patrick McHenry (R-NC), who was tapped by former speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) and not elected, can participate.

The lack of a speaker is a problem. Although House committees can still meet, the House can’t do much. McHenry is responsible mostly for overseeing the election of a new speaker; he does not have the authority to bring bills or even resolutions to the floor.




Notes:

https://apnews.com/article/israel-pales ... 9284fc37d2

https://www.state.gov/reports/2016-repo ... rritories/

https://www.state.gov/reports/2021-coun ... ng%20areas.

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/ ... aza-strip/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... now-so-far

https://thehill.com/policy/internationa ... velopment/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... since-1973

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... in-israel/

https://ecfr.eu/publication/alone-toget ... ationship/

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... in-israel/

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/18/politics ... index.html

https://apnews.com/article/iran-north-a ... ck-727282b

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/worl ... ussia.html

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/201 ... 6f95830000

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... nterparts/

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... r-fidan-7/

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... t-abbas-5/

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... -farhan-4/

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/0 ... t-00120491

https://www.politico.eu/article/iran-ha ... jerusalem/

https://twitter.com/UnderSecTFI/status/ ... 9980464482

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2023 ... ay/391039/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/world-rea ... on-israel/

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgr ... ber-7-2023
So, maybe this more like Binyamin’s Pearl Harbor than 9-11?

“The hundreds of thousands of Israelis who have been protesting Netanyahu’s strengthening hold on the government have said they would come together in this dangerous moment. ”
If you knew your history you would understand how well Pearl Harbor worked out for the Japanese. :roll: A sneak attack is I believe it was Yamamoto who proclaimed I fear what he have done is awaken a sleeping giant. Now Hamas had better have a plan B. I'm betting Israel has one plan A right now and that involves killing as many members of Hamas as soon as possible.
I think folks understand that, having done this, Hamas has its hands full and will have to absorb the full might of an Israeli counterattack and retribution. But it may be -- repeat: may be -- that the purpose of this strike is to start a regional conflict in the Middle East to deter aid to Ukraine, move American assets and attention toward Israel, and help Russia. It is hard not to consider Russia the real culprit here, a war criminal state allying itself with a terrorist organization. At this point, predictable bedfellows. I'd like to know if Tehran has a part in this.

The stories coming out of Israel of citizens being murdered are awful. One report is that a elderly woman was killed in her home, while the Hamas gunman filmed it on her phone and posted it to her Facebook page. Hard to imagine that Israel's response will not be terrifying:

https://www.facebook.com/Thomas18012/vi ... 674104485/
PizzaSnake
Posts: 5365
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:36 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by PizzaSnake »

cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 3:16 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:49 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:12 am HCR October 7, 2023; good column (with sources):

"Early this morning, Eastern Daylight Time, Hamas militants broke out of the Gaza Strip, where approximately 2 million Palestinians live, largely unable to leave because of the extensive restrictions Israel has imposed. They pushed as far as 15 miles (about 24 kilometers) into Israel, taking over at least 22 towns and firing at least 2,500 rockets. They have killed at least 250 Israelis, wounded more than 1,500 others, and taken hostages. The attack was a surprise, having an effect on Israelis that observers are comparing to the effect of 9-11 on people in the U.S.

Hamas is a group of Palestinian militants that make up one of the two major political parties in the Palestinian Territories, which consist of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Hamas was established in 1987 and gained control of the Gaza Strip in 2007. Since then, Hamas and the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) have periodically exchanged fire. In May 2021 that tension turned into an 11-day conflict that has simmered along the security fence between Israel and Gaza ever since.

In a video address to Israelis, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said: “We are at war and we will win it.” Israelis have killed at least 232 people and wounded more than 1,700 in retaliation for the attack. He promised the Israeli military will “take revenge for this black day” but that it “will take time.” He warned that Israel would turn “into ruins” the places where Hamas operates, and told residents of Gaza to “get out of there now,” although they have no way to leave.

There are serious questions about how the Netanyahu government did not see this attack coming. It was either a spectacular intelligence failure or a security failure or both, and it strikes at the heart of the Netanyahu government’s promise to keep the country safe. At the same time, the attack is making Israelis rally together. The hundreds of thousands of Israelis who have been protesting Netanyahu’s strengthening hold on the government have said they would come together in this dangerous moment.

A number of countries, including the U.S., have designated Hamas a terrorist organization. It is backed by Iran, which provides money and weapons, and last month high-level Iranian officials apparently met with Hamas leaders in Lebanon. Today Iran praised Hamas for the attack. Iran has opposed the recent talks between Saudi Arabia and Israel about normalizing relations. Since the decline of Iraq as an independent power, Iran has viewed the combination of Israel, its main enemy, with Saudi Arabia, its main rival for power, as the greatest threat to its security in the region.

Iran and Russia are allies whose relationship has strengthened considerably as the Russian war against Ukraine has pushed the two increasingly isolated countries together to resist Western sanctions. Former Russian president and deputy chair of Russia’s Security Council Dmitry Medvedev said the attack was “expected,” and used it to accuse the U.S.

The Middle East, rather than Ukraine, was “what Washington and its allies should be busy with,” he said. “But instead of actively working at Palestinian-Israeli settlement,” he went on, “these morons have interfered with us, and are providing the neo-Nazis with full-scale aid, pitting the two closely related peoples against each other. What can stop America’s manic obsession to incite conflicts all over the planet?”

Today’s assessment of the Russian offensive in Ukraine by the Institute for the Study of War said: “The Kremlin is already [exploiting] and will likely continue to exploit the Hamas attacks in Israel to advance several information operations intended to reduce US and Western support and attention to Ukraine.”


Both Saudi Arabia and Qatar have contextualized the attack by calling out Israel’s treatment of the Palestinian people but also are calling for restraint and for the violence to stop.

India, too, has expressed solidarity with Israel.

In the U.S., the administration suggested that it sees a larger hand behind this attack and is working with partners and allies to contain the violence. In a statement, President Biden said the United States “unequivocally condemns this appalling assault against Israel by Hamas terrorists from Gaza, and I made clear to Prime Minister Netanyahu that we stand ready to offer all appropriate means of support to the Government and people of Israel.” It went on with a warning—“The United States warns against any other party hostile to Israel seeking advantage in this situation”—and a threat: “My Administration’s support for Israel’s security is rock solid and unwavering.”

Biden told reporters that he has been in contact with the King of Jordan, has spoken with members of Congress, and is in close touch with Netanyahu. He says he has directed the national security team to engage with their Israeli counterparts—“military to military, intelligence to intelligence,...diplomat to diplomat—to make sure Israel has what it needs.” He has also directed his team “to remain in constant contact with leaders throughout the region, including Egypt, Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Oman, the UAE, as well as with our European partners and the Palestinian Authority.”

Secretary of State Antony Blinken spoke today with the presidents of Israel and the Palestinian Authority, which controls the West Bank, urging Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas to condemn the attack and to work to restore calm. He also spoke with the foreign ministers of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar, Germany, Italy, the United Kingdom, and Türkiye, as well as the European Union’s High Representative for foreign affairs. Blinken urged the EU, Türkiye, and the so-called Quint countries—France, Germany, Italy, the U.K., and the U.S.—to continue to engage on the issue, and he promised to stay in close contact with all the parties he talked to today.

In the United States, Republicans used the moment to attack President Biden. In an echo of a similar lie from Trump, who falsely claimed the Obama administration had paid $150 billion to Iran for a nuclear agreement, they took to social media in a flood to say that the U.S. had funded the attack on Israel because it had recently “paid” $6 billion to Iran.

The statement was wrong across the board: the U.S did not pay Iran anything. It helped to ease restrictions on Iranian money that had been frozen in South Korea, enabling Qatar to take control of the money and use it for humanitarian aid. In any case, the money has not yet been transferred. Still, it was a surprising decision to attack the U.S. government at a time when the country would normally be united behind Israel.

Nonetheless, the attack has made the national implications of Republicans’ own troubles even more clear. In times of crisis, the executive branch briefs the so-called Gang of Eight on classified intelligence matters. The Gang of Eight is made up of the leaders of each party in the House and the Senate, and the leaders of each party in each chamber’s intelligence committee. But without a House Speaker, this leading intelligence group is missing a key member. It is not clear if the acting speaker, Representative Patrick McHenry (R-NC), who was tapped by former speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) and not elected, can participate.

The lack of a speaker is a problem. Although House committees can still meet, the House can’t do much. McHenry is responsible mostly for overseeing the election of a new speaker; he does not have the authority to bring bills or even resolutions to the floor.




Notes:

https://apnews.com/article/israel-pales ... 9284fc37d2

https://www.state.gov/reports/2016-repo ... rritories/

https://www.state.gov/reports/2021-coun ... ng%20areas.

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/ ... aza-strip/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... now-so-far

https://thehill.com/policy/internationa ... velopment/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... since-1973

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... in-israel/

https://ecfr.eu/publication/alone-toget ... ationship/

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... in-israel/

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/18/politics ... index.html

https://apnews.com/article/iran-north-a ... ck-727282b

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/worl ... ussia.html

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/201 ... 6f95830000

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... nterparts/

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... r-fidan-7/

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... t-abbas-5/

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... -farhan-4/

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/0 ... t-00120491

https://www.politico.eu/article/iran-ha ... jerusalem/

https://twitter.com/UnderSecTFI/status/ ... 9980464482

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2023 ... ay/391039/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/world-rea ... on-israel/

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgr ... ber-7-2023
So, maybe this more like Binyamin’s Pearl Harbor than 9-11?

“The hundreds of thousands of Israelis who have been protesting Netanyahu’s strengthening hold on the government have said they would come together in this dangerous moment. ”
If you knew your history you would understand how well Pearl Harbor worked out for the Japanese. :roll: A sneak attack is I believe it was Yamamoto who proclaimed I fear what he have done is awaken a sleeping giant. Now Hamas had better have a plan B. I'm betting Israel has one plan A right now and that involves killing as many members of Hamas as soon as possible.
You excel at misconstruing the point I'm making. I'm fairly well versed in history. Given I mentioned two "unprovoked" attacks and a leader's "ownership" of same, maybe try again. Let me help: was FDR and the military well aware of the Japanese threat? Yes. Question is, why didn't they do anything? As for 9-11, was the US government aware, via intel, of a threat from disaffected militants (Osama and Al-Qaeda) they created to counter Soviet presence in Afghanistan? Yes, they were, but, lack of preparation and over-confidence made the success of 9-11 more likely and more devastating. Oh, and before you go on a FLP, anti-Dem (CLinton admin) rant, know that blame lies with both parties for this "sleepwalking"...
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
User avatar
cradleandshoot
Posts: 15574
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by cradleandshoot »

PizzaSnake wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 3:38 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 3:16 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:49 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:12 am HCR October 7, 2023; good column (with sources):

"Early this morning, Eastern Daylight Time, Hamas militants broke out of the Gaza Strip, where approximately 2 million Palestinians live, largely unable to leave because of the extensive restrictions Israel has imposed. They pushed as far as 15 miles (about 24 kilometers) into Israel, taking over at least 22 towns and firing at least 2,500 rockets. They have killed at least 250 Israelis, wounded more than 1,500 others, and taken hostages. The attack was a surprise, having an effect on Israelis that observers are comparing to the effect of 9-11 on people in the U.S.

Hamas is a group of Palestinian militants that make up one of the two major political parties in the Palestinian Territories, which consist of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Hamas was established in 1987 and gained control of the Gaza Strip in 2007. Since then, Hamas and the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) have periodically exchanged fire. In May 2021 that tension turned into an 11-day conflict that has simmered along the security fence between Israel and Gaza ever since.

In a video address to Israelis, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said: “We are at war and we will win it.” Israelis have killed at least 232 people and wounded more than 1,700 in retaliation for the attack. He promised the Israeli military will “take revenge for this black day” but that it “will take time.” He warned that Israel would turn “into ruins” the places where Hamas operates, and told residents of Gaza to “get out of there now,” although they have no way to leave.

There are serious questions about how the Netanyahu government did not see this attack coming. It was either a spectacular intelligence failure or a security failure or both, and it strikes at the heart of the Netanyahu government’s promise to keep the country safe. At the same time, the attack is making Israelis rally together. The hundreds of thousands of Israelis who have been protesting Netanyahu’s strengthening hold on the government have said they would come together in this dangerous moment.

A number of countries, including the U.S., have designated Hamas a terrorist organization. It is backed by Iran, which provides money and weapons, and last month high-level Iranian officials apparently met with Hamas leaders in Lebanon. Today Iran praised Hamas for the attack. Iran has opposed the recent talks between Saudi Arabia and Israel about normalizing relations. Since the decline of Iraq as an independent power, Iran has viewed the combination of Israel, its main enemy, with Saudi Arabia, its main rival for power, as the greatest threat to its security in the region.

Iran and Russia are allies whose relationship has strengthened considerably as the Russian war against Ukraine has pushed the two increasingly isolated countries together to resist Western sanctions. Former Russian president and deputy chair of Russia’s Security Council Dmitry Medvedev said the attack was “expected,” and used it to accuse the U.S.

The Middle East, rather than Ukraine, was “what Washington and its allies should be busy with,” he said. “But instead of actively working at Palestinian-Israeli settlement,” he went on, “these morons have interfered with us, and are providing the neo-Nazis with full-scale aid, pitting the two closely related peoples against each other. What can stop America’s manic obsession to incite conflicts all over the planet?”

Today’s assessment of the Russian offensive in Ukraine by the Institute for the Study of War said: “The Kremlin is already [exploiting] and will likely continue to exploit the Hamas attacks in Israel to advance several information operations intended to reduce US and Western support and attention to Ukraine.”


Both Saudi Arabia and Qatar have contextualized the attack by calling out Israel’s treatment of the Palestinian people but also are calling for restraint and for the violence to stop.

India, too, has expressed solidarity with Israel.

In the U.S., the administration suggested that it sees a larger hand behind this attack and is working with partners and allies to contain the violence. In a statement, President Biden said the United States “unequivocally condemns this appalling assault against Israel by Hamas terrorists from Gaza, and I made clear to Prime Minister Netanyahu that we stand ready to offer all appropriate means of support to the Government and people of Israel.” It went on with a warning—“The United States warns against any other party hostile to Israel seeking advantage in this situation”—and a threat: “My Administration’s support for Israel’s security is rock solid and unwavering.”

Biden told reporters that he has been in contact with the King of Jordan, has spoken with members of Congress, and is in close touch with Netanyahu. He says he has directed the national security team to engage with their Israeli counterparts—“military to military, intelligence to intelligence,...diplomat to diplomat—to make sure Israel has what it needs.” He has also directed his team “to remain in constant contact with leaders throughout the region, including Egypt, Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Oman, the UAE, as well as with our European partners and the Palestinian Authority.”

Secretary of State Antony Blinken spoke today with the presidents of Israel and the Palestinian Authority, which controls the West Bank, urging Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas to condemn the attack and to work to restore calm. He also spoke with the foreign ministers of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar, Germany, Italy, the United Kingdom, and Türkiye, as well as the European Union’s High Representative for foreign affairs. Blinken urged the EU, Türkiye, and the so-called Quint countries—France, Germany, Italy, the U.K., and the U.S.—to continue to engage on the issue, and he promised to stay in close contact with all the parties he talked to today.

In the United States, Republicans used the moment to attack President Biden. In an echo of a similar lie from Trump, who falsely claimed the Obama administration had paid $150 billion to Iran for a nuclear agreement, they took to social media in a flood to say that the U.S. had funded the attack on Israel because it had recently “paid” $6 billion to Iran.

The statement was wrong across the board: the U.S did not pay Iran anything. It helped to ease restrictions on Iranian money that had been frozen in South Korea, enabling Qatar to take control of the money and use it for humanitarian aid. In any case, the money has not yet been transferred. Still, it was a surprising decision to attack the U.S. government at a time when the country would normally be united behind Israel.

Nonetheless, the attack has made the national implications of Republicans’ own troubles even more clear. In times of crisis, the executive branch briefs the so-called Gang of Eight on classified intelligence matters. The Gang of Eight is made up of the leaders of each party in the House and the Senate, and the leaders of each party in each chamber’s intelligence committee. But without a House Speaker, this leading intelligence group is missing a key member. It is not clear if the acting speaker, Representative Patrick McHenry (R-NC), who was tapped by former speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) and not elected, can participate.

The lack of a speaker is a problem. Although House committees can still meet, the House can’t do much. McHenry is responsible mostly for overseeing the election of a new speaker; he does not have the authority to bring bills or even resolutions to the floor.




Notes:

https://apnews.com/article/israel-pales ... 9284fc37d2

https://www.state.gov/reports/2016-repo ... rritories/

https://www.state.gov/reports/2021-coun ... ng%20areas.

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/ ... aza-strip/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... now-so-far

https://thehill.com/policy/internationa ... velopment/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... since-1973

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... in-israel/

https://ecfr.eu/publication/alone-toget ... ationship/

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... in-israel/

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/18/politics ... index.html

https://apnews.com/article/iran-north-a ... ck-727282b

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/worl ... ussia.html

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/201 ... 6f95830000

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... nterparts/

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... r-fidan-7/

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... t-abbas-5/

https://www.state.gov/secretary-blinken ... -farhan-4/

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/0 ... t-00120491

https://www.politico.eu/article/iran-ha ... jerusalem/

https://twitter.com/UnderSecTFI/status/ ... 9980464482

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2023 ... ay/391039/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/world-rea ... on-israel/

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgr ... ber-7-2023
So, maybe this more like Binyamin’s Pearl Harbor than 9-11?

“The hundreds of thousands of Israelis who have been protesting Netanyahu’s strengthening hold on the government have said they would come together in this dangerous moment. ”
If you knew your history you would understand how well Pearl Harbor worked out for the Japanese. :roll: A sneak attack is I believe it was Yamamoto who proclaimed I fear what he have done is awaken a sleeping giant. Now Hamas had better have a plan B. I'm betting Israel has one plan A right now and that involves killing as many members of Hamas as soon as possible.
You excel at misconstruing the point I'm making. I'm fairly well versed in history. Given I mentioned two "unprovoked" attacks and a leader's "ownership" of same, maybe try again. Let me help: was FDR and the military well aware of the Japanese threat? Yes. Question is, why didn't they do anything? As for 9-11, was the US government aware, via intel, of a threat from disaffected militants (Osama and Al-Qaeda) they created to counter Soviet presence in Afghanistan? Yes, they were, but, lack of preparation and over-confidence made the success of 9-11 more likely and more devastating. Oh, and before you go on a FLP, anti-Dem (CLinton admin) rant, know that blame lies with both parties for this "sleepwalking"...
If your well versed in history you may want to use a better analogy than referring these attacks as Bebes Pearl Harbor. If your well versed in history then try and show it. If you make a dumbass analogy simply admit it, it ain't that painful. It's okay to making a mistake. Did FDR know about the attack on Pearl Harbor you should REALLY do your homework. For a person so well versed in military history you would already know that decades of investigation and research have NEVER proven FDR had direct knowledge of the attack. I believe he probably did, it just has never been and never will be proved. The point being the attack on Pearl Harbor was a victory and a huge mistake at the same time. They galvanized Americas will to fight. This cowardly attack by Hamas is industrial strength stupid. Unless they wanted to galvanized Israeli resistance then they succeeded hugely.
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
Seacoaster(1)
Posts: 5361
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:49 am

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

"You're." It's just not that hard.
User avatar
Brooklyn
Posts: 10321
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:16 am
Location: St Paul, Minnesota

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Brooklyn »

I just saw a news report on tv which shows Biden has ordered American naval vessels into the region. Don't know why the 🅵***** he's doing that since none of that 🆂***** is any of our g*ժժ@mn business.
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

Charles Francis "Socker" Coe, Esq
User avatar
youthathletics
Posts: 15967
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:36 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by youthathletics »

Brooklyn wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 4:24 pm I just saw a news report on tv which shows Biden has ordered American naval vessels into the region. Don't know why the 🅵***** he's doing that since none of that 🆂***** is any of our g*ժժ@mn business.
News I read says to support relocation of Americans in Israel.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
Seacoaster(1)
Posts: 5361
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:49 am

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

youthathletics wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 5:00 pm
Brooklyn wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 4:24 pm I just saw a news report on tv which shows Biden has ordered American naval vessels into the region. Don't know why the 🅵***** he's doing that since none of that 🆂***** is any of our g*ժժ@mn business.
News I read says to support relocation of Americans in Israel.
Right. Relatively routine and prudent action by our government. And the notion that we should do ostrich act is just stupid.
User avatar
Kismet
Posts: 5140
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:42 pm

Re: Israel and Zionism

Post by Kismet »

youthathletics wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 5:00 pm
Brooklyn wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 4:24 pm I just saw a news report on tv which shows Biden has ordered American naval vessels into the region. Don't know why the 🅵***** he's doing that since none of that 🆂***** is any of our g*ժժ@mn business.
News I read says to support relocation of Americans in Israel.
One of many objectives I'm sure. Also relocated multiple kinds of USAF aircraft to Italy (F15s, F16s, A10s and F35s) is very likely not about relocating Americans from Israel.

Evacuation is also important especially with the terrorists targeting Ben Gurion airport and the suspension of most commercial service into and out of the country.

Perhaps also some messaging to Hezbollah and Assad to not try anything in the north.
Last edited by Kismet on Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply

Return to “POLITICS”