Israel and West Bank Settlements

[old salt]

Don't forget rapists...that's always been a theme...they're coming for your women...

Nothing will develop “work ethic” like a whip. Some have it naturally, others need to be whipped into shape, according to Old Salt.

well...I think you're trolling him there, as I'd like to think that Salty simply hasn't recognized the implications of what these folks are communicating, and he's defending, but I get it that piercing the apologia bubble is important sometimes.

Let me just say that the invitation is open to anyone on here to realize that it's quite simple to say 'oops, I didn't understand that, didn't see that perspective, sorry, let's change the wording to better reflect our best intentions".

But now that it's more clear (hopefully), the refusal by some to take that simple path speaks volumes about actual intentions.

And that's the issue for public figures like DeSantis and Gutfeld. They double and triple down.

You're both trolling me. The more offensive analogies that you both make, the more you demonstrate it.
The more baseless negative stereotypes you pull out of your asses, the more you soil the discussion.

You are both willfully misconstruing a flyspeck in a lengthy well meaning document.
You offer no opinion on the rest of the lengthy document.

That's not accurate, though I won't call it a lie as you may have simply missed the acknowledgment that the curriculum contains lots of material that I'd consider to be appropriate. Indeed, the great majority...almost all. Others have similarly acknowledged.

However, I also noted what the curriculum removed from earlier efforts, intentionally removing invitations to read and discuss views of systemic, structural continuations of racism, both legal and government endorsed and de facto...systemic racism. that were at the root of justifications of slavery and persist today.

And, what is at issue with this particular language is not solely that it's offensive, it's that it's defended as if nothing at all to be offended about...first there should have been someone involved in the creation of this curriculum with sufficient awareness that this language wouldn't have appeared, instead would have been modified (as we've made clear would be easy, if the intent was positive), second that no one on the committee understood that this claim of "skills" benefiting former slaves is part of Lost Cause ideology...and third, that once this was brought to the fore, that the reaction is to double down rather than simply say, "oops, that's not what was meant, let's change it"...

That's the problem, the "where woke goes to die" narrative and the selection of people to devise a curriculum that "doesn't make white children feel guilty" results in Lost Cause apologist ideology getting into the curriculum and then defended blindly.

Salty, I continue to keep the door open to you...but it's hard...

The Lost Cause ideology was that slaves were not capable of such things, which that instruction refutes.
It is only offensive to those looking for a reason to be offended. The rest of your response is incomprehensible.
You refuse to acknowledge the credentials & good intentions of the academics who produced the curriculum.

come on, Salty, the scholars chosen were specifically chosen for their right wing views on race. They know better, but have chosen academic career paths based on being an alternative view to those who believe systemic racism and the legacy effects of racism continue today.

No, the Lost Cause ideology wasn't that no slaves had possible "skills", the ideology was that some did, whereas others needed to be whipped; submission was the point... "house slaves" for instance were "loved and cared for" by their owners, not degraded, exploited. Submission, no "uppity" Negroes allowed. The ideology minimizes the degradation, the abuse, the horror of slavery and sanitizes it in a gauzy white wash of "hey' they learned to be blacksmiths' and "benefited from" their time in slavery. Gone with the Wind...Birth of a Nation was more explicitly negative about slaves...they deserved their suppression, they deserved to be lynched like the animals they are...

That you don't know this, or deny this, is because you have bought into the white wash version of that ideology whether unconsciously or not (it was undoubtedly prevalent in your own educational curriculum)...but please do know that it was very concerted effort during Jim Crow to white wash the actions of slave owners and to minimize the horrors committed. Celebrate the "heroes" of the Confederacy with monuments that said to the black residents, "we are in power, shut up and go back to the field or the kitchen".

For an interesting, fact-based perspective on the reality of slavery in the South, go visit any of several former rice plantations in the Low Country of coastal SC and imagine working in those conditions—for free…

This both-siderism currently employed is a fcuking joke and those who traffic in it are probably due our pity for the horrible wrong done to them in their upbringing that renders them unable to recognize or correct the errors in their conception of reality.

Thank God for this thread. The scales have fallen from my eyes. I've never heard, or been exposed, to any of this information before.
Prof MDLF76 will be assigning virtue signal grades to each of your posts.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Thank God Robert Smalls was a slave….he never would have been able to learn these things. A fine example of how slavery allowed people to develop skills….even maritime. We wasting a lot of money at USNA….obviously a cheaper way to develop sailors.

The Navy's done a lot better on affirmative action than your industry has.

Good for the government.

[cradleandshoot]

Don't forget rapists...that's always been a theme...they're coming for your women...

Nothing will develop “work ethic” like a whip. Some have it naturally, others need to be whipped into shape, according to Old Salt.

well...I think you're trolling him there, as I'd like to think that Salty simply hasn't recognized the implications of what these folks are communicating, and he's defending, but I get it that piercing the apologia bubble is important sometimes.

Let me just say that the invitation is open to anyone on here to realize that it's quite simple to say 'oops, I didn't understand that, didn't see that perspective, sorry, let's change the wording to better reflect our best intentions".

But now that it's more clear (hopefully), the refusal by some to take that simple path speaks volumes about actual intentions.

And that's the issue for public figures like DeSantis and Gutfeld. They double and triple down.

You're both trolling me. The more offensive analogies that you both make, the more you demonstrate it.
The more baseless negative stereotypes you pull out of your asses, the more you soil the discussion.

You are both willfully misconstruing a flyspeck in a lengthy well meaning document.
You offer no opinion on the rest of the lengthy document.

That's not accurate, though I won't call it a lie as you may have simply missed the acknowledgment that the curriculum contains lots of material that I'd consider to be appropriate. Indeed, the great majority...almost all. Others have similarly acknowledged.

However, I also noted what the curriculum removed from earlier efforts, intentionally removing invitations to read and discuss views of systemic, structural continuations of racism, both legal and government endorsed and de facto...systemic racism. that were at the root of justifications of slavery and persist today.

And, what is at issue with this particular language is not solely that it's offensive, it's that it's defended as if nothing at all to be offended about...first there should have been someone involved in the creation of this curriculum with sufficient awareness that this language wouldn't have appeared, instead would have been modified (as we've made clear would be easy, if the intent was positive), second that no one on the committee understood that this claim of "skills" benefiting former slaves is part of Lost Cause ideology...and third, that once this was brought to the fore, that the reaction is to double down rather than simply say, "oops, that's not what was meant, let's change it"...

That's the problem, the "where woke goes to die" narrative and the selection of people to devise a curriculum that "doesn't make white children feel guilty" results in Lost Cause apologist ideology getting into the curriculum and then defended blindly.

Salty, I continue to keep the door open to you...but it's hard...

The Lost Cause ideology was that slaves were not capable of such things, which that instruction refutes.
It is only offensive to those looking for a reason to be offended. The rest of your response is incomprehensible.
You refuse to acknowledge the credentials & good intentions of the academics who produced the curriculum.

come on, Salty, the scholars chosen were specifically chosen for their right wing views on race. They know better, but have chosen academic career paths based on being an alternative view to those who believe systemic racism and the legacy effects of racism continue today.

No, the Lost Cause ideology wasn't that no slaves had possible "skills", the ideology was that some did, whereas others needed to be whipped; submission was the point... "house slaves" for instance were "loved and cared for" by their owners, not degraded, exploited. Submission, no "uppity" Negroes allowed. The ideology minimizes the degradation, the abuse, the horror of slavery and sanitizes it in a gauzy white wash of "hey' they learned to be blacksmiths' and "benefited from" their time in slavery. Gone with the Wind...Birth of a Nation was more explicitly negative about slaves...they deserved their suppression, they deserved to be lynched like the animals they are...

That you don't know this, or deny this, is because you have bought into the white wash version of that ideology whether unconsciously or not (it was undoubtedly prevalent in your own educational curriculum)...but please do know that it was very concerted effort during Jim Crow to white wash the actions of slave owners and to minimize the horrors committed. Celebrate the "heroes" of the Confederacy with monuments that said to the black residents, "we are in power, shut up and go back to the field or the kitchen".

For an interesting, fact-based perspective on the reality of slavery in the South, go visit any of several former rice plantations in the Low Country of coastal SC and imagine working in those conditions—for free…

This both-siderism currently employed is a fcuking joke and those who traffic in it are probably due our pity for the horrible wrong done to them in their upbringing that renders them unable to recognize or correct the errors in their conception of reality.

Thank God for this thread. The scales have fallen from my eyes. I've never heard, or been exposed, to any of this information before.
Prof MDLF76 will be assigning virtue signal grades to each of your posts.

He will never have time to do so. All of his free time nowadays involves chasing those WNC from hiding in his back yard. He has yet to figure out that the vast majority of WNC are probably undercover FBI agents.

[MDlaxfan76]

Don't forget rapists...that's always been a theme...they're coming for your women...

Nothing will develop “work ethic” like a whip. Some have it naturally, others need to be whipped into shape, according to Old Salt.

well...I think you're trolling him there, as I'd like to think that Salty simply hasn't recognized the implications of what these folks are communicating, and he's defending, but I get it that piercing the apologia bubble is important sometimes.

Let me just say that the invitation is open to anyone on here to realize that it's quite simple to say 'oops, I didn't understand that, didn't see that perspective, sorry, let's change the wording to better reflect our best intentions".

But now that it's more clear (hopefully), the refusal by some to take that simple path speaks volumes about actual intentions.

And that's the issue for public figures like DeSantis and Gutfeld. They double and triple down.

You're both trolling me. The more offensive analogies that you both make, the more you demonstrate it.
The more baseless negative stereotypes you pull out of your asses, the more you soil the discussion.

You are both willfully misconstruing a flyspeck in a lengthy well meaning document.
You offer no opinion on the rest of the lengthy document.

That's not accurate, though I won't call it a lie as you may have simply missed the acknowledgment that the curriculum contains lots of material that I'd consider to be appropriate. Indeed, the great majority...almost all. Others have similarly acknowledged.

However, I also noted what the curriculum removed from earlier efforts, intentionally removing invitations to read and discuss views of systemic, structural continuations of racism, both legal and government endorsed and de facto...systemic racism. that were at the root of justifications of slavery and persist today.

And, what is at issue with this particular language is not solely that it's offensive, it's that it's defended as if nothing at all to be offended about...first there should have been someone involved in the creation of this curriculum with sufficient awareness that this language wouldn't have appeared, instead would have been modified (as we've made clear would be easy, if the intent was positive), second that no one on the committee understood that this claim of "skills" benefiting former slaves is part of Lost Cause ideology...and third, that once this was brought to the fore, that the reaction is to double down rather than simply say, "oops, that's not what was meant, let's change it"...

That's the problem, the "where woke goes to die" narrative and the selection of people to devise a curriculum that "doesn't make white children feel guilty" results in Lost Cause apologist ideology getting into the curriculum and then defended blindly.

Salty, I continue to keep the door open to you...but it's hard...

The Lost Cause ideology was that slaves were not capable of such things, which that instruction refutes.
It is only offensive to those looking for a reason to be offended. The rest of your response is incomprehensible.
You refuse to acknowledge the credentials & good intentions of the academics who produced the curriculum.

come on, Salty, the scholars chosen were specifically chosen for their right wing views on race. They know better, but have chosen academic career paths based on being an alternative view to those who believe systemic racism and the legacy effects of racism continue today.

No, the Lost Cause ideology wasn't that no slaves had possible "skills", the ideology was that some did, whereas others needed to be whipped; submission was the point... "house slaves" for instance were "loved and cared for" by their owners, not degraded, exploited. Submission, no "uppity" Negroes allowed. The ideology minimizes the degradation, the abuse, the horror of slavery and sanitizes it in a gauzy white wash of "hey' they learned to be blacksmiths' and "benefited from" their time in slavery. Gone with the Wind...Birth of a Nation was more explicitly negative about slaves...they deserved their suppression, they deserved to be lynched like the animals they are...

That you don't know this, or deny this, is because you have bought into the white wash version of that ideology whether unconsciously or not (it was undoubtedly prevalent in your own educational curriculum)...but please do know that it was very concerted effort during Jim Crow to white wash the actions of slave owners and to minimize the horrors committed. Celebrate the "heroes" of the Confederacy with monuments that said to the black residents, "we are in power, shut up and go back to the field or the kitchen".

For an interesting, fact-based perspective on the reality of slavery in the South, go visit any of several former rice plantations in the Low Country of coastal SC and imagine working in those conditions—for free…

This both-siderism currently employed is a fcuking joke and those who traffic in it are probably due our pity for the horrible wrong done to them in their upbringing that renders them unable to recognize or correct the errors in their conception of reality.

Thank God for this thread. The scales have fallen from my eyes. I've never heard, or been exposed, to any of this information before.
Prof MDLF76 will be assigning virtue signal grades to each of your posts.

He will never have time to do so. All of his free time nowadays involves chasing those WNC from hiding in his back yard. He has yet to figure out that the vast majority of WNC are probably undercover FBI agents.

I see...another good reason to defund the FBI...

[PizzaSnake]

Don't forget rapists...that's always been a theme...they're coming for your women...

Nothing will develop “work ethic” like a whip. Some have it naturally, others need to be whipped into shape, according to Old Salt.

well...I think you're trolling him there, as I'd like to think that Salty simply hasn't recognized the implications of what these folks are communicating, and he's defending, but I get it that piercing the apologia bubble is important sometimes.

Let me just say that the invitation is open to anyone on here to realize that it's quite simple to say 'oops, I didn't understand that, didn't see that perspective, sorry, let's change the wording to better reflect our best intentions".

But now that it's more clear (hopefully), the refusal by some to take that simple path speaks volumes about actual intentions.

And that's the issue for public figures like DeSantis and Gutfeld. They double and triple down.

You're both trolling me. The more offensive analogies that you both make, the more you demonstrate it.
The more baseless negative stereotypes you pull out of your asses, the more you soil the discussion.

You are both willfully misconstruing a flyspeck in a lengthy well meaning document.
You offer no opinion on the rest of the lengthy document.

That's not accurate, though I won't call it a lie as you may have simply missed the acknowledgment that the curriculum contains lots of material that I'd consider to be appropriate. Indeed, the great majority...almost all. Others have similarly acknowledged.

However, I also noted what the curriculum removed from earlier efforts, intentionally removing invitations to read and discuss views of systemic, structural continuations of racism, both legal and government endorsed and de facto...systemic racism. that were at the root of justifications of slavery and persist today.

And, what is at issue with this particular language is not solely that it's offensive, it's that it's defended as if nothing at all to be offended about...first there should have been someone involved in the creation of this curriculum with sufficient awareness that this language wouldn't have appeared, instead would have been modified (as we've made clear would be easy, if the intent was positive), second that no one on the committee understood that this claim of "skills" benefiting former slaves is part of Lost Cause ideology...and third, that once this was brought to the fore, that the reaction is to double down rather than simply say, "oops, that's not what was meant, let's change it"...

That's the problem, the "where woke goes to die" narrative and the selection of people to devise a curriculum that "doesn't make white children feel guilty" results in Lost Cause apologist ideology getting into the curriculum and then defended blindly.

Salty, I continue to keep the door open to you...but it's hard...

The Lost Cause ideology was that slaves were not capable of such things, which that instruction refutes.
It is only offensive to those looking for a reason to be offended. The rest of your response is incomprehensible.
You refuse to acknowledge the credentials & good intentions of the academics who produced the curriculum.

come on, Salty, the scholars chosen were specifically chosen for their right wing views on race. They know better, but have chosen academic career paths based on being an alternative view to those who believe systemic racism and the legacy effects of racism continue today.

No, the Lost Cause ideology wasn't that no slaves had possible "skills", the ideology was that some did, whereas others needed to be whipped; submission was the point... "house slaves" for instance were "loved and cared for" by their owners, not degraded, exploited. Submission, no "uppity" Negroes allowed. The ideology minimizes the degradation, the abuse, the horror of slavery and sanitizes it in a gauzy white wash of "hey' they learned to be blacksmiths' and "benefited from" their time in slavery. Gone with the Wind...Birth of a Nation was more explicitly negative about slaves...they deserved their suppression, they deserved to be lynched like the animals they are...

That you don't know this, or deny this, is because you have bought into the white wash version of that ideology whether unconsciously or not (it was undoubtedly prevalent in your own educational curriculum)...but please do know that it was very concerted effort during Jim Crow to white wash the actions of slave owners and to minimize the horrors committed. Celebrate the "heroes" of the Confederacy with monuments that said to the black residents, "we are in power, shut up and go back to the field or the kitchen".

For an interesting, fact-based perspective on the reality of slavery in the South, go visit any of several former rice plantations in the Low Country of coastal SC and imagine working in those conditions—for free…

This both-siderism currently employed is a fcuking joke and those who traffic in it are probably due our pity for the horrible wrong done to them in their upbringing that renders them unable to recognize or correct the errors in their conception of reality.

Thank God for this thread. The scales have fallen from my eyes. I've never heard, or been exposed, to any of this information before.

I assume you're attempting some facetious irony here. If we take it as that, then the question remains, "why still so obtuse?" Hmm, what other reasons might there be for this obduracy when in possession of this data?

Prof MDLF76 will be assigning virtue signal grades to each of your posts.

Yeah, you've got me pegged. Looking for a bone here on this site.

[old salt]

Thank God for this thread. The scales have fallen from my eyes. I've never heard, or been exposed, to any of this information before.

I assume you're attempting some facetious irony here. If we take it as that, then the question remains, "why still so obtuse?" Hmm, what other reasons might there be for this obduracy when in possession of this data?

Very perceptive of you. What data ? It's a difference in interpretation & a difference of opinion regarding the motives of the authors.

[MDlaxfan76]

Thank God for this thread. The scales have fallen from my eyes. I've never heard, or been exposed, to any of this information before.

I assume you're attempting some facetious irony here. If we take it as that, then the question remains, "why still so obtuse?" Hmm, what other reasons might there be for this obduracy when in possession of this data?

Very perceptive of you. What data ? It's a difference in interpretation & a difference of opinion regarding the motives of the authors.

[cradleandshoot]

Don't forget rapists...that's always been a theme...they're coming for your women...

Nothing will develop “work ethic” like a whip. Some have it naturally, others need to be whipped into shape, according to Old Salt.

well...I think you're trolling him there, as I'd like to think that Salty simply hasn't recognized the implications of what these folks are communicating, and he's defending, but I get it that piercing the apologia bubble is important sometimes.

Let me just say that the invitation is open to anyone on here to realize that it's quite simple to say 'oops, I didn't understand that, didn't see that perspective, sorry, let's change the wording to better reflect our best intentions".

But now that it's more clear (hopefully), the refusal by some to take that simple path speaks volumes about actual intentions.

And that's the issue for public figures like DeSantis and Gutfeld. They double and triple down.

You're both trolling me. The more offensive analogies that you both make, the more you demonstrate it.
The more baseless negative stereotypes you pull out of your asses, the more you soil the discussion.

You are both willfully misconstruing a flyspeck in a lengthy well meaning document.
You offer no opinion on the rest of the lengthy document.

That's not accurate, though I won't call it a lie as you may have simply missed the acknowledgment that the curriculum contains lots of material that I'd consider to be appropriate. Indeed, the great majority...almost all. Others have similarly acknowledged.

However, I also noted what the curriculum removed from earlier efforts, intentionally removing invitations to read and discuss views of systemic, structural continuations of racism, both legal and government endorsed and de facto...systemic racism. that were at the root of justifications of slavery and persist today.

And, what is at issue with this particular language is not solely that it's offensive, it's that it's defended as if nothing at all to be offended about...first there should have been someone involved in the creation of this curriculum with sufficient awareness that this language wouldn't have appeared, instead would have been modified (as we've made clear would be easy, if the intent was positive), second that no one on the committee understood that this claim of "skills" benefiting former slaves is part of Lost Cause ideology...and third, that once this was brought to the fore, that the reaction is to double down rather than simply say, "oops, that's not what was meant, let's change it"...

That's the problem, the "where woke goes to die" narrative and the selection of people to devise a curriculum that "doesn't make white children feel guilty" results in Lost Cause apologist ideology getting into the curriculum and then defended blindly.

Salty, I continue to keep the door open to you...but it's hard...

The Lost Cause ideology was that slaves were not capable of such things, which that instruction refutes.
It is only offensive to those looking for a reason to be offended. The rest of your response is incomprehensible.
You refuse to acknowledge the credentials & good intentions of the academics who produced the curriculum.

come on, Salty, the scholars chosen were specifically chosen for their right wing views on race. They know better, but have chosen academic career paths based on being an alternative view to those who believe systemic racism and the legacy effects of racism continue today.

No, the Lost Cause ideology wasn't that no slaves had possible "skills", the ideology was that some did, whereas others needed to be whipped; submission was the point... "house slaves" for instance were "loved and cared for" by their owners, not degraded, exploited. Submission, no "uppity" Negroes allowed. The ideology minimizes the degradation, the abuse, the horror of slavery and sanitizes it in a gauzy white wash of "hey' they learned to be blacksmiths' and "benefited from" their time in slavery. Gone with the Wind...Birth of a Nation was more explicitly negative about slaves...they deserved their suppression, they deserved to be lynched like the animals they are...

That you don't know this, or deny this, is because you have bought into the white wash version of that ideology whether unconsciously or not (it was undoubtedly prevalent in your own educational curriculum)...but please do know that it was very concerted effort during Jim Crow to white wash the actions of slave owners and to minimize the horrors committed. Celebrate the "heroes" of the Confederacy with monuments that said to the black residents, "we are in power, shut up and go back to the field or the kitchen".

For an interesting, fact-based perspective on the reality of slavery in the South, go visit any of several former rice plantations in the Low Country of coastal SC and imagine working in those conditions—for free…

This both-siderism currently employed is a fcuking joke and those who traffic in it are probably due our pity for the horrible wrong done to them in their upbringing that renders them unable to recognize or correct the errors in their conception of reality.

Thank God for this thread. The scales have fallen from my eyes. I've never heard, or been exposed, to any of this information before.
Prof MDLF76 will be assigning virtue signal grades to each of your posts.

He will never have time to do so. All of his free time nowadays involves chasing those WNC from hiding in his back yard. He has yet to figure out that the vast majority of WNC are probably undercover FBI agents.

I see...another good reason to defund the FBI...

Nope, you just have to weed out the corrupt ones at the top. Maybe the focus should be narrowed down to defund and fire corrupt FBI leadership? That work better for you keeper?

[PizzaSnake]

Don't forget rapists...that's always been a theme...they're coming for your women...

Nothing will develop “work ethic” like a whip. Some have it naturally, others need to be whipped into shape, according to Old Salt.

well...I think you're trolling him there, as I'd like to think that Salty simply hasn't recognized the implications of what these folks are communicating, and he's defending, but I get it that piercing the apologia bubble is important sometimes.

Let me just say that the invitation is open to anyone on here to realize that it's quite simple to say 'oops, I didn't understand that, didn't see that perspective, sorry, let's change the wording to better reflect our best intentions".

But now that it's more clear (hopefully), the refusal by some to take that simple path speaks volumes about actual intentions.

And that's the issue for public figures like DeSantis and Gutfeld. They double and triple down.

You're both trolling me. The more offensive analogies that you both make, the more you demonstrate it.
The more baseless negative stereotypes you pull out of your asses, the more you soil the discussion.

You are both willfully misconstruing a flyspeck in a lengthy well meaning document.
You offer no opinion on the rest of the lengthy document.

That's not accurate, though I won't call it a lie as you may have simply missed the acknowledgment that the curriculum contains lots of material that I'd consider to be appropriate. Indeed, the great majority...almost all. Others have similarly acknowledged.

However, I also noted what the curriculum removed from earlier efforts, intentionally removing invitations to read and discuss views of systemic, structural continuations of racism, both legal and government endorsed and de facto...systemic racism. that were at the root of justifications of slavery and persist today.

And, what is at issue with this particular language is not solely that it's offensive, it's that it's defended as if nothing at all to be offended about...first there should have been someone involved in the creation of this curriculum with sufficient awareness that this language wouldn't have appeared, instead would have been modified (as we've made clear would be easy, if the intent was positive), second that no one on the committee understood that this claim of "skills" benefiting former slaves is part of Lost Cause ideology...and third, that once this was brought to the fore, that the reaction is to double down rather than simply say, "oops, that's not what was meant, let's change it"...

That's the problem, the "where woke goes to die" narrative and the selection of people to devise a curriculum that "doesn't make white children feel guilty" results in Lost Cause apologist ideology getting into the curriculum and then defended blindly.

Salty, I continue to keep the door open to you...but it's hard...

The Lost Cause ideology was that slaves were not capable of such things, which that instruction refutes.
It is only offensive to those looking for a reason to be offended. The rest of your response is incomprehensible.
You refuse to acknowledge the credentials & good intentions of the academics who produced the curriculum.

come on, Salty, the scholars chosen were specifically chosen for their right wing views on race. They know better, but have chosen academic career paths based on being an alternative view to those who believe systemic racism and the legacy effects of racism continue today.

No, the Lost Cause ideology wasn't that no slaves had possible "skills", the ideology was that some did, whereas others needed to be whipped; submission was the point... "house slaves" for instance were "loved and cared for" by their owners, not degraded, exploited. Submission, no "uppity" Negroes allowed. The ideology minimizes the degradation, the abuse, the horror of slavery and sanitizes it in a gauzy white wash of "hey' they learned to be blacksmiths' and "benefited from" their time in slavery. Gone with the Wind...Birth of a Nation was more explicitly negative about slaves...they deserved their suppression, they deserved to be lynched like the animals they are...

That you don't know this, or deny this, is because you have bought into the white wash version of that ideology whether unconsciously or not (it was undoubtedly prevalent in your own educational curriculum)...but please do know that it was very concerted effort during Jim Crow to white wash the actions of slave owners and to minimize the horrors committed. Celebrate the "heroes" of the Confederacy with monuments that said to the black residents, "we are in power, shut up and go back to the field or the kitchen".

For an interesting, fact-based perspective on the reality of slavery in the South, go visit any of several former rice plantations in the Low Country of coastal SC and imagine working in those conditions—for free…

This both-siderism currently employed is a fcuking joke and those who traffic in it are probably due our pity for the horrible wrong done to them in their upbringing that renders them unable to recognize or correct the errors in their conception of reality.

Thank God for this thread. The scales have fallen from my eyes. I've never heard, or been exposed, to any of this information before.
Prof MDLF76 will be assigning virtue signal grades to each of your posts.

He will never have time to do so. All of his free time nowadays involves chasing those WNC from hiding in his back yard. He has yet to figure out that the vast majority of WNC are probably undercover FBI agents.

I see...another good reason to defund the FBI...

Nope, you just have to weed out the corrupt ones at the top. Maybe the focus should be narrowed down to defund and fire corrupt FBI leadership? That work better for you keeper?

You think the FBI isn't riven with Lost Cause fifth columnists, top to bottom?

[cradleandshoot]

Don't forget rapists...that's always been a theme...they're coming for your women...

Nothing will develop “work ethic” like a whip. Some have it naturally, others need to be whipped into shape, according to Old Salt.

well...I think you're trolling him there, as I'd like to think that Salty simply hasn't recognized the implications of what these folks are communicating, and he's defending, but I get it that piercing the apologia bubble is important sometimes.

Let me just say that the invitation is open to anyone on here to realize that it's quite simple to say 'oops, I didn't understand that, didn't see that perspective, sorry, let's change the wording to better reflect our best intentions".

But now that it's more clear (hopefully), the refusal by some to take that simple path speaks volumes about actual intentions.

And that's the issue for public figures like DeSantis and Gutfeld. They double and triple down.

You're both trolling me. The more offensive analogies that you both make, the more you demonstrate it.
The more baseless negative stereotypes you pull out of your asses, the more you soil the discussion.

You are both willfully misconstruing a flyspeck in a lengthy well meaning document.
You offer no opinion on the rest of the lengthy document.

That's not accurate, though I won't call it a lie as you may have simply missed the acknowledgment that the curriculum contains lots of material that I'd consider to be appropriate. Indeed, the great majority...almost all. Others have similarly acknowledged.

However, I also noted what the curriculum removed from earlier efforts, intentionally removing invitations to read and discuss views of systemic, structural continuations of racism, both legal and government endorsed and de facto...systemic racism. that were at the root of justifications of slavery and persist today.

And, what is at issue with this particular language is not solely that it's offensive, it's that it's defended as if nothing at all to be offended about...first there should have been someone involved in the creation of this curriculum with sufficient awareness that this language wouldn't have appeared, instead would have been modified (as we've made clear would be easy, if the intent was positive), second that no one on the committee understood that this claim of "skills" benefiting former slaves is part of Lost Cause ideology...and third, that once this was brought to the fore, that the reaction is to double down rather than simply say, "oops, that's not what was meant, let's change it"...

That's the problem, the "where woke goes to die" narrative and the selection of people to devise a curriculum that "doesn't make white children feel guilty" results in Lost Cause apologist ideology getting into the curriculum and then defended blindly.

Salty, I continue to keep the door open to you...but it's hard...

The Lost Cause ideology was that slaves were not capable of such things, which that instruction refutes.
It is only offensive to those looking for a reason to be offended. The rest of your response is incomprehensible.
You refuse to acknowledge the credentials & good intentions of the academics who produced the curriculum.

come on, Salty, the scholars chosen were specifically chosen for their right wing views on race. They know better, but have chosen academic career paths based on being an alternative view to those who believe systemic racism and the legacy effects of racism continue today.

No, the Lost Cause ideology wasn't that no slaves had possible "skills", the ideology was that some did, whereas others needed to be whipped; submission was the point... "house slaves" for instance were "loved and cared for" by their owners, not degraded, exploited. Submission, no "uppity" Negroes allowed. The ideology minimizes the degradation, the abuse, the horror of slavery and sanitizes it in a gauzy white wash of "hey' they learned to be blacksmiths' and "benefited from" their time in slavery. Gone with the Wind...Birth of a Nation was more explicitly negative about slaves...they deserved their suppression, they deserved to be lynched like the animals they are...

That you don't know this, or deny this, is because you have bought into the white wash version of that ideology whether unconsciously or not (it was undoubtedly prevalent in your own educational curriculum)...but please do know that it was very concerted effort during Jim Crow to white wash the actions of slave owners and to minimize the horrors committed. Celebrate the "heroes" of the Confederacy with monuments that said to the black residents, "we are in power, shut up and go back to the field or the kitchen".

For an interesting, fact-based perspective on the reality of slavery in the South, go visit any of several former rice plantations in the Low Country of coastal SC and imagine working in those conditions—for free…

This both-siderism currently employed is a fcuking joke and those who traffic in it are probably due our pity for the horrible wrong done to them in their upbringing that renders them unable to recognize or correct the errors in their conception of reality.

Thank God for this thread. The scales have fallen from my eyes. I've never heard, or been exposed, to any of this information before.
Prof MDLF76 will be assigning virtue signal grades to each of your posts.

He will never have time to do so. All of his free time nowadays involves chasing those WNC from hiding in his back yard. He has yet to figure out that the vast majority of WNC are probably undercover FBI agents.

I see...another good reason to defund the FBI...

Nope, you just have to weed out the corrupt ones at the top. Maybe the focus should be narrowed down to defund and fire corrupt FBI leadership? That work better for you keeper?

You think the FBI isn't riven with Lost Cause fifth columnists, top to bottom?

You think the WNC types are not riddled with undercover FBI agents in their midst? Keep going, I can play this game all day long. Please don't tell MD lax that would burst his little bubble of paranoia...

[MDlaxfan76]

Don't forget rapists...that's always been a theme...they're coming for your women...

Nothing will develop “work ethic” like a whip. Some have it naturally, others need to be whipped into shape, according to Old Salt.

well...I think you're trolling him there, as I'd like to think that Salty simply hasn't recognized the implications of what these folks are communicating, and he's defending, but I get it that piercing the apologia bubble is important sometimes.

Let me just say that the invitation is open to anyone on here to realize that it's quite simple to say 'oops, I didn't understand that, didn't see that perspective, sorry, let's change the wording to better reflect our best intentions".

But now that it's more clear (hopefully), the refusal by some to take that simple path speaks volumes about actual intentions.

And that's the issue for public figures like DeSantis and Gutfeld. They double and triple down.

You're both trolling me. The more offensive analogies that you both make, the more you demonstrate it.
The more baseless negative stereotypes you pull out of your asses, the more you soil the discussion.

You are both willfully misconstruing a flyspeck in a lengthy well meaning document.
You offer no opinion on the rest of the lengthy document.

That's not accurate, though I won't call it a lie as you may have simply missed the acknowledgment that the curriculum contains lots of material that I'd consider to be appropriate. Indeed, the great majority...almost all. Others have similarly acknowledged.

However, I also noted what the curriculum removed from earlier efforts, intentionally removing invitations to read and discuss views of systemic, structural continuations of racism, both legal and government endorsed and de facto...systemic racism. that were at the root of justifications of slavery and persist today.

And, what is at issue with this particular language is not solely that it's offensive, it's that it's defended as if nothing at all to be offended about...first there should have been someone involved in the creation of this curriculum with sufficient awareness that this language wouldn't have appeared, instead would have been modified (as we've made clear would be easy, if the intent was positive), second that no one on the committee understood that this claim of "skills" benefiting former slaves is part of Lost Cause ideology...and third, that once this was brought to the fore, that the reaction is to double down rather than simply say, "oops, that's not what was meant, let's change it"...

That's the problem, the "where woke goes to die" narrative and the selection of people to devise a curriculum that "doesn't make white children feel guilty" results in Lost Cause apologist ideology getting into the curriculum and then defended blindly.

Salty, I continue to keep the door open to you...but it's hard...

The Lost Cause ideology was that slaves were not capable of such things, which that instruction refutes.
It is only offensive to those looking for a reason to be offended. The rest of your response is incomprehensible.
You refuse to acknowledge the credentials & good intentions of the academics who produced the curriculum.

come on, Salty, the scholars chosen were specifically chosen for their right wing views on race. They know better, but have chosen academic career paths based on being an alternative view to those who believe systemic racism and the legacy effects of racism continue today.

No, the Lost Cause ideology wasn't that no slaves had possible "skills", the ideology was that some did, whereas others needed to be whipped; submission was the point... "house slaves" for instance were "loved and cared for" by their owners, not degraded, exploited. Submission, no "uppity" Negroes allowed. The ideology minimizes the degradation, the abuse, the horror of slavery and sanitizes it in a gauzy white wash of "hey' they learned to be blacksmiths' and "benefited from" their time in slavery. Gone with the Wind...Birth of a Nation was more explicitly negative about slaves...they deserved their suppression, they deserved to be lynched like the animals they are...

That you don't know this, or deny this, is because you have bought into the white wash version of that ideology whether unconsciously or not (it was undoubtedly prevalent in your own educational curriculum)...but please do know that it was very concerted effort during Jim Crow to white wash the actions of slave owners and to minimize the horrors committed. Celebrate the "heroes" of the Confederacy with monuments that said to the black residents, "we are in power, shut up and go back to the field or the kitchen".

For an interesting, fact-based perspective on the reality of slavery in the South, go visit any of several former rice plantations in the Low Country of coastal SC and imagine working in those conditions—for free…

This both-siderism currently employed is a fcuking joke and those who traffic in it are probably due our pity for the horrible wrong done to them in their upbringing that renders them unable to recognize or correct the errors in their conception of reality.

Thank God for this thread. The scales have fallen from my eyes. I've never heard, or been exposed, to any of this information before.
Prof MDLF76 will be assigning virtue signal grades to each of your posts.

He will never have time to do so. All of his free time nowadays involves chasing those WNC from hiding in his back yard. He has yet to figure out that the vast majority of WNC are probably undercover FBI agents.

I see...another good reason to defund the FBI...

Nope, you just have to weed out the corrupt ones at the top. Maybe the focus should be narrowed down to defund and fire corrupt FBI leadership? That work better for you keeper?

You think the FBI isn't riven with Lost Cause fifth columnists, top to bottom?

You think the WNC types are not riddled with undercover FBI agents in their midst? Keep going, I can play this game all day long. Please don't tell MD lax that would burst his little bubble of paranoia...

I sure as heck hope the FBI are trying to penetrate terrorist and criminal organizations!

They get taken down for gun violations, drug smuggling, human trafficking, and terrorist activities. Takes a lot of effort to do so, so you betcha I hope they're doing so.

But you're talking about law enforcement being biased ideologically. I want/expect any "bias" to be equal treatment under the law, without regard or favor based on race, gender, power or other such factors...white nationalists don't agree.

Do you?
Or does having that "bias" I describe make them "corrupt"?

[PizzaSnake]

Hmm. Obverse of the Iranian theocracy?

“As part of an agreement with ultra-Orthodox allies that underpinned the formation of the coalition, Mr. Netanyahu made several concessions that have unsettled secular Israelis. Among them are proposals to segregate audiences by sex at some public events, to create new religious residential communities, to allow businesses to refuse to provide services based on religious beliefs, and to expand the powers of all-male rabbinical courts.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/12/worl ... ights.html

[Kismet]

Hamas militants orchestrate a surprise attack from Gaza into Israel

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/10/07 ... aza-attack

[MDlaxfan76]

Hamas militants orchestrate a surprise attack from Gaza into Israel

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/10/07 ... aza-attack

There's going to be a brutal response.
Any Israeli government would respond very forcefully, this one is likely to take advantage of the situation. Words like "eradicate" are being used.

I feel for the families who have no involvement, but not for the terrorists of Hamas. Gonna be awful.

The reality is that this right wing government has been actively fomenting this conflict, escalating at every turn, and accelerating settlements building. It should not have been a surprise; interesting that it apparently was, despite being a major coordinated assault.

And F the Irainians, have to have been involved...ugh.

[PizzaSnake]

Hamas militants orchestrate a surprise attack from Gaza into Israel

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/10/07 ... aza-attack

There's going to be a brutal response.
Any Israeli government would respond very forcefully, this one is likely to take advantage of the situation. Words like "eradicate" are being used.

I feel for the families who have no involvement, but not for the terrorists of Hamas. Gonna be awful.

The reality is that this right wing government has been actively fomenting this conflict, escalating at every turn, and accelerating settlements building. It should not have been a surprise; interesting that it apparently was, despite being a major coordinated assault.

And F the Irainians, have to have been involved...ugh.

Looks like a gambit to derail the Israeli-Saudi rapprochement.

But yeah, going to be humanity at its finest.

[youthathletics]

Coincidence it comes shortly after a 6 billion infusion into Tehran from the US?

[MDlaxfan76]

Coincidence it comes shortly after a 6 billion infusion into Tehran from the US?

Undoubtedly no relationship, but sure, it's another reminder that the Iranian government is truly awful.

It's possible that a twist could be that while it may delay momentarily the Saudi-Israel alignment, ultimately that's coming, further isolating Iran.

On the other hand, quite a few countries are blaming this crisis on Israel...and they have a sound point...so, this could spiral the other way if Israel behaves really badly, as they are prone to do under this government and with this provocation.

I had a fascinating discussion on Wednesday with a woman who has been very, very highly placed in international financial circles...discussed Emirates (Russian oligarchs are the top of the society behind emirates) and then Saudi Arabia. Until recently, she had sworn she'd never set foot in country; beheadings of women in the town squares as spectator sport, etc...she says MBS is a raving mad egotist, more than Putin, Xi, Trump, outlandish, grandiose aspirations and totally brutal...BUT, his grandiose plans require international capital...and he decided that the only way to make that possible was to transform Saudi society...which has huge numbers of uneducated young people. So, he's killed the preachers as well as all of his political opponents, shut down all preaching of fundamentalist Islam, and greatly liberalized society...women and girls walking around in mini skirts and cut off jeans...etc.

But still, of course, total crackdown on dissent...very interesting...

[Brooklyn]

Coincidence it comes shortly after a 6 billion infusion into Tehran from the US?

Iran would do this knowing that it would stop the return of capital stolen by the USA? Yeah, that would be a brilliant move, wouldn't it? Kinda reminds me of all those villains in the TV Batman series who all sent clues to the cops and to the Caped Crusader with the intent of having themselves captured. Very thoughtful of them to do so. Wasn't very bright of them to reveal their plans but it sure made the plot work out well.

[Kismet]

Coincidence it comes shortly after a 6 billion infusion into Tehran from the US?

$6 billion was South Korean funds not US.
Hamas is SUNNI and are not aligned with Tehran, in fact, they hate Shiites on an equal if not greater level than Jews. Their weapons originate through the Qataris and Egyptians.

Looks like its designed to upend the Saudi-Israel deal more than anything.

Thanks for injecting the standard political angles as usual.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Coincidence it comes shortly after a 6 billion infusion into Tehran from the US?

$6 billion was South Korean funds not US.
Hamas is SUNNI and are not aligned with Tehran, in fact, they hate Shiites on an equal if not greater level than Jews. Their weapons originate through the Qataris and Egyptians.

Looks like its designed to upend the Saudi-Israel deal more than anything.

Thanks for injecting the standard political angles as usual.

He was just putting it out there.