Hunter Biden Tinfoil issues

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old salt
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Re: Hunter Biden Tinfoil issues

Post by old salt »

:mrgreen:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/09/ ... f-victory/

How Hunter Biden’s Lawyers Snatched Defeat from the Jaws of Victory
By ANDREW C. MCCARTHY. September 23, 2023

Paradoxically, as the Biden Justice Department has labored to get the defendant, the president’s son, out of jeopardy, the defense team has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, convincing prosecutors that they had no alternative but to indict him, which they have on gun charges and are very likely to on tax charges.

The Biden defense’s Midas touch was on display again this week as Hunter and his lawyers gratuitously put his father’s Justice Department and a federal magistrate judge in the awkward position of having to, respectively, object to and deny his request to be arraigned remotely (by video conference). From the perspective of the court, the arrogance of this application had to be deeply offensive.

Every federal defendant is required to show up in person for arraignment. It is not just that defendants have a right to be present for all important stages of a criminal case; judges prudentially require them to be present. Allowing defendants to absent themselves causes problems: Even if he has waived the right to be present at this or that court session, a defendant who is eventually convicted (as the vast majority are) invariably claims on appeal that his rights were violated by proceedings held in his absence. An arraignment is a critical stage in the case, even if a pro forma one, because the defendant must enter a plea. The law calls for that to happen in court, in person.

Yes, video conferencing was permitted for pleas during the Covid pandemic. The public-health emergency closed the courts for all but the most unavoidable business, so many extraordinary precautions were put in place (even the Supreme Court conducted oral arguments remotely). But the pandemic has been over for some time now, and courts have long been back to regular operations.

How regular? Well, as Team Hunter well knows, the Biden Justice Department and the courts recently required a former president of the United States to fly hundreds of miles, not once but twice, to be present in court for arraignments, despite all the security headaches those exercises entailed for court security personnel, law-enforcement agencies, and the Secret Service. Former president Trump also had to appear in person for arraignment in state court in Manhattan; and although he was allowed under Georgia law to be arraigned remotely, that was only after he was required to present himself at a corrections facility to be processed (where he took that now-infamous mug-shot photo).

The security issues attendant to court attendance by a sitting president’s son are real, but clearly not as serious as those attendant to Trump’s — and Trump was required to show up nevertheless. Furthermore, Hunter has spent much of the past few years living in the Biden family’s Delaware homes and the White House. It was comparatively convenient for him to come to the Delaware courthouse. More significantly, while he is presumed innocent (despite his failed diversion agreement), Hunter is charged with firearms offenses and has a history of serious drug abuse — including brandishing a firearm while apparently under the influence. He is therefore a defendant who will be subject to careful monitoring by the court’s pretrial-services agency, and the court has a heightened interest in ensuring that he shows up for court proceedings and demonstrates that he is of sound mind.

Hunter is a Yale-educated attorney. His lawyers are highly experienced criminal-defense attorneys. It is impossible that they would not know what I’ve laid out above. This stuff is basic. For his own sake, as someone who (a) is very likely to have a criminal sentence imposed on him at some point in the not-too-distant future and (b) would be asking not to be imprisoned, Hunter Biden should take every opportunity to show up, be engaged, and exhibit humility. Fight the case, of course, but do it the right way.

This is not the right way.

That this case is not over and done with, under an arrangement reasonably close to the sweetheart deal the Biden Justice Department tried to give him, is the fault of Hunter and his defense team — then led by the obnoxiously aggressive Christopher Clark. (It appears that Abbe Lowell took over when the plea bargain imploded, with Clark stepping aside on the rationale that he may be a witness against the government).

Weiss offered Hunter (a) misdemeanor pleas for failing to pay his taxes in 2018 and 2019 (for tax years 2017 and 2018, respectively), and (b) a diversion agreement on a gun-possession felony that did not require a judge’s approval (though, as written, it did have to be endorsed by the court’s Probation Office). The deal fell apart because Weiss lacked the integrity to admit, when pressed, that the Biden Justice Department fully intended by this scam to give Hunter immunity from any future prosecution arising out of the Biden family influence-peddling business and other potential gun charges. (As I’ve noted, there were two guns, not one, and the diversion agreement did not include the felony charges arising from Hunter’s lying about his drug abuse during the purchase of a revolver — those are now Counts One and Two in the indictment against him, with the possession charge as Count Three.)

In their understandable huff over Weiss’s duplicity, Hunter and (especially) his lawyers lost their composure. They were too entranced by the idea of the cost-free disposition that they’d been promised — indeed, that Weiss had been willing to give them, without filing any charges, until IRS whistleblower agents exposed the prosecutorial malfeasance. When emotions are raw, lawyers are supposed to maintain an even keel and explain how much the client has to lose if, in his rage or disappointment, he fails to accept an unbelievably good deal because it is no longer the perfect deal he was hoping for. Instead, as things went south in Judge Maryellen Noreika’s courtroom, Clark stomped about and growled that prosecutors could “rip it up” (i.e., the plea and diversion agreements).

Mind-boggling.

By the time of the failed guilty plea in late July, Weiss had already caused most of the Hunter case to vanish. In the Biden Justice Department’s determination to shield President Biden, Weiss willfully let the statute of limitations run on all tax years prior to 2017 — i.e., on the years when Joe was vice president. Mind you, the lucrative influence-peddling scheme was wound down after 2018 as the presidential campaign ramped up. Essentially then, only tax years 2017 and 2018 were still prosecutable. On those, in lieu of felonies, Weiss was agreeing to let Hunter off with mere misdemeanors in addition to promising to recommend a no-prison sentence.

The defense was clearly pained by Judge Noreika’s admonition that she would not be bound by that recommendation. That, however, is standard in this type of plea agreement: The judge is not required to follow a government sentencing proposal. In effect, Weiss gave Hunter all the protection it was possible for a prosecutor to give: Even if the judge believed Hunter should have been charged with felonies, Weiss had capped his sentencing exposure by charging only misdemeanors; he was thus looking at a maximum two-year (instead of ten-year) sentence. Moreover, Noreika was simply assuring herself, as federal law requires, that the defendant understood the sentence was up to her, not Weiss; that doesn’t necessarily mean she was going to send Hunter to prison. To the contrary, the Justice Department’s no-prison recommendation, though not binding, would undoubtedly have weighed on her, as would Hunter’s sparse criminal history and the letters seeking leniency that would have poured in — including, no doubt, from the White House.

The sweetheart deal blew up because these due-diligence questions from Noreika exposed that Weiss had not spelled out the immunity term and was unwilling to own up publicly to its intended sweep. But the deal didn’t blow up in one fell swoop. When the first fissures emerged, Noreika gave Team Biden and the Biden Justice Department time to patch things up. At that point, Weiss indicated his willingness to state clearly that Hunter would be immune from future tax, firearm, and drug-related charges (i.e., the charges as to which the White House could claim the president had no involvement).

Team Biden could have grabbed that and been done with it. Instead, Hunter’s lawyers insisted on a clear grant of immunity for potential charges arising out of the millions raked in by selling foreign operatives access to Joe Biden’s political power — in particular, violations of the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA), although money-laundering, bribery, and other serious crimes would also theoretically be in play.

Notice, I said theoretically. Biden’s lawyers are supposed to be Beltway Brahmins, matching legal smarts with political savvy. But this sure seems like amateur hour. It could not be more obvious that Weiss has no intention of prosecuting the influence-peddling scheme. The potential crimes arising out of it implicate President Biden, and Weiss has done everything he could to erase any investigatory trail to the president — to the point that (a) to repeat, he allowed the statute of limitations to lapse on tax crimes traceable to Hunter’s cashing in on Joe’s years as vice president (2014-16); and (b) his subordinate instructed agents not to ask witnesses questions bearing on Joe’s involvement.

Because of the way Weiss has steered the “investigation,” the statute of limitations (six years on tax crimes, five on everything else) has already run on most of the 2014–18 influence-peddling. More to the point, even if Biden turns out to be only a one-term president (which I doubt), prosecution of crimes arising out of the influence-peddling scheme would be time-barred by January 20, 2025, when, hypothetically, a new Republican Justice Department could take over.

If we look at this practically, rather than theoretically, the chance that Hunter is actually going to be charged by Weiss for any of the crimes over which he and his lawyers blew up the sweetheart deal is non-existent.

That is particularly true of FARA. As I detailed in Ball of Collusion, in the half-century before special counsel Robert Mueller’s hyper-politicized Russiagate probe, the Justice Department brought FARA charges a grand total of seven times, winning just three convictions. (By the way, in just one of those did the government prove a FARA crime at trial. The other two convictions were guilty pleas. The four other cases resulted in two non-FARA convictions and two outright dismissals.) And even Mueller’s team, despite its fondness for FARA, steered clear of bringing standalone FARA charges; instead, allegations of failure to register were tucked into broad conspiracy-to-defraud-the-government charges, to which prosecutors got Paul Manafort and Rick Gates to plead guilty.

Meantime, the Justice Department’s halting effort to invigorate FARA has failed. Earlier this month, prosecutors finally hung out the white flag on the Mueller probe-related effort to obtain FARA convictions against Bijan Rafiekian (a Trump 2016 transition-team member and former business partner of Trump’s first national-security adviser, Michael Flynn, who was also implicated in, but not prosecuted for, FARA violations). Rulings by the trial court vacating Rafiekian’s conviction and by the appellate court upholding a new trial that the Justice Department did not believe it could win doomed the FARA prosecution (see here and here). In addition, in 2019, a jury swiftly acquitted Greg Craig, the former Obama White House counsel, in another Mueller probe-related FARA case. The Justice Department has, to be fair, managed to squeeze some recent FARA guilty pleas out of two defendants — Imaad Sha Zuberi (in 2021) and former RNC chairman Elliott Broidy (in 2020). For the most part, though, the FARA statute has vexed prosecutors due to both its long history of non-enforcement and its exceptions, which make it tough to apply to defendants who, like Hunter Biden, are lawyers or claim to have been conducting legitimate financial transactions.

And then, as ever, there is “special” counsel David Weiss. The speculation that Hunter Biden may be charged under FARA is understandable given how it weirdly factored into the collapse of the plea deal. But there has been surprisingly little attention paid to one of Weiss’s most critical but furtive decisions in the case.

Last year, Weiss dropped the FARA investigation of Blue Star Strategies. That would be the Clinton-allied Democratic lobbying firm that Hunter recruited to lobby for Burisma and its chief, Mykola Zlochevsky. That would be the same Zlochevsky who lavishly paid Hunter to sit on the energy company’s board, who told an FBI informant he had paid Hunter and Joe Biden a combined $10 million in bribes, and whom Hunter put on the phone with his dad, then-vice president Joe Biden, in late 2015 — while Zlochevsky was a fugitive living in exile in Dubai and was pressuring Hunter to use his political connections to pressure the Ukrainian government to drop its Burisma investigation. That was just days before Vice President Biden started pressuring the Ukrainian government to fire the prosecutor who was investigating Burisma.

Weiss quietly aborted the Blue Star Strategies probe in exchange for the lobbying firm’s being quietly permitted to file a post hoc FARA registration detailing its Burisma exertions — an implicit admission that the law called for registering with the Justice Department at the time of those exertions.

Obviously, if Weiss had any intention of proceeding with FARA charges against Hunter Biden, he would not have opted against charging the lobbyist that Hunter had brought in to do Burisma’s bidding. And at this point, of course, the statute of limitations on 2015–16 FARA violations has expired in any event.

There is no way David Weiss is going to charge Hunter Biden with criminal offenses that implicate Joe Biden. Remember, Weiss wouldn’t even mention any such potential charges in the immunity provision that he tried to hide from Judge Noreika by inserting it into the diversion agreement (which did not require judicial approval) rather than the plea agreement where it belonged. And, given the determination of Weiss and Attorney General Merrick Garland to protect President Biden with the 2024 campaign already underway, there is no way that the Biden Justice Department is going to charge that the president’s son has been an agent of corrupt Ukrainians, Chinese apparatchiks, a Russian oligarch, or who knows who else.

Does it give Hunter and his lawyers some agita that Weiss refused to spell this reality out in court documents? Sure . . . but that doesn’t make it any less patent a reality. And to repeat: By the time Biden’s first term as president is over, even if it turns out to be his only term, the statute of limitations will have eviscerated even the theoretical possibility of charging Hunter Biden — or anyone else — with crimes arising out of the Biden influence-peddling scheme.

Despite all that, Hunter and his legal team blew up the plea deal. Had he simply agreed to the modified terms Weiss offered in Judge Noreika’s courtroom, Hunter could have pled guilty to two minor tax infractions and would have been facing a minimal term of incarceration at worst. If the tax plea had been entered, the Probation Office — with enough nudging from Weiss — would almost certainly have approved the diversion agreement on the gun charge (and even if it hadn’t, Weiss could have renegotiated the diversion agreement to cut the Probation Office out of the loop . . . or just dropped the gun charge). Would that outcome have been as ironclad as Hunter wanted? No, but it would have been a better outcome than he had any reasonable hope to achieve, and far better than would have been available to any American not named Biden.

Instead, Hunter Biden has now been indicted on three felony gun charges (adding up to 25 years of potential imprisonment), and there is enormous pressure on Weiss — especially after House Republicans raked Garland over the coals at this week’s oversight hearing — to indict Hunter on evasion felonies for the 2017 and 2018 tax years (which would add up to at least ten years’ potential imprisonment).

Is Hunter going to be sent to prison for 35 years? Of course not. But unlike defendants charged with misdemeanors who plead out with a government recommendation of no incarceration, defendants who get convicted of felonies typically get prison terms that are not insubstantial. If he is convicted on gun and tax charges, Hunter’s sentencing guidelines are probably going to be in the low multi-year range. Although the guidelines are not binding on the sentencing judge, the judges in Hunter’s cases would grasp that they were being watched closely and would be in for vehement criticism if the president’s son were given blatantly favorable treatment.

It won’t come to that. President Biden is not going to let his son be convicted and imprisoned, any more than any of us would if we were possessed of the Constitution’s pardon power and could spare one of our children that fate. But why is this even an issue? Well, because, with the Biden Justice Department willing to give away the store, Hunter Biden and his lawyers couldn’t bring themselves to take it.
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old salt
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Re: Hunter Biden Tinfoil issues

Post by old salt »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2023 9:09 pmWhat government/political job does Hunter have?
Influence peddler. WH State Dinner greeter. AF1 flight attendant. WH Easter Egg roller.

Hunter at WH State Dinner,


Hunter's Camp David quarters.


Hunter reacting to plea deal collapse.
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Re: Hunter Biden Tinfoil issues

Post by cradleandshoot »

old salt wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 3:50 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2023 9:09 pmWhat government/political job does Hunter have?
Influence peddler. WH State Dinner greeter. AF1 flight attendant. WH Easter Egg roller.

Hunter at WH State Dinner,


Hunter's Camp David quarters.


Hunter reacting to plea deal collapse.
And Hunter is not qualified for any of those tasks. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Hunter Biden Tinfoil issues

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 3:50 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2023 9:09 pmWhat government/political job does Hunter have?
Influence peddler. WH State Dinner greeter. AF1 flight attendant. WH Easter Egg roller.

Hunter at WH State Dinner,


Hunter's Camp David quarters.


Hunter reacting to plea deal collapse.
Just Old and Sad.
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Re: Hunter Biden Tinfoil issues

Post by njbill »

Gee, Andy sure has lost his fastball. No mention of the fact that the statutes on which the gun charges are based are likely unconstitutional thanks to Clarence Thomas.

It appears Andy isn’t paying very close attention to events anymore. His characterization of why the plea deal blew up is simply wrong. It did not blow up over the immunity issues. Yes, when they went into court, Hunter’s lawyers were taking the position that Hunter was going to get immunity from all future prosecutions. But when the court raised a question about that, the government disagreed with that position. Hunter’s lawyers then backed off and agreed with the government’s position on immunity. McCarthy is 100% wrong here.

The deal blew up over the diversion agreement. The deal included a provision that the court, not the probation department, would make the determination as to whether Hunter had violated probation during the two-year probationary period. The court thought that provision may be unconstitutional and declined to agree to it.

At the time, I wrote that Hunter’s lawyers had really screwed up in not making sure, damn sure, that they had an agreement when they left that court room. While it is certainly understandable that Hunter would be concerned that a vindictive Trump would do anything possible to put him in jail if he returned to office, Hunter’s lawyers misplayed the situation. First of all, Hunter would’ve only had to sweat out perhaps four or five months under a Trump administration. The two year deal would’ve incepted in July 2023 and concluded in July 2025. Trump’s new Attorney General, even assuming he could get one confirmed, wouldn’t take office until February or March 2025 in all likelihood. So Hunter would only have to be a good boy for a few more months. But most importantly, even if the probation department violated him, it would be the judge who would set the sentence, the very same judge who Hunter wanted to make the determination under the diversionary agreement in the first place.

So, yes, Hunter’s lawyers certainly screwed up. But Andy is way off base in his characterization of what happened.

The final chapter has not yet been written on the Hunter Biden prosecutions. Whether he is being treated more harshly or more leniently than the average citizen remains to be seen. But we do know so far that he’s being treated more harshly on the gun charges. If his name was Hunter Smith, he would not have been charged. There is no other reasonable conclusion.

On the other hand, we need a lot more information about the tax charges. Weiss determined not to prosecute the earlier years. (He didn’t “let” the statute of limitations expire.) He will write a report in due time and at that point we can assess whether he appropriately failed to charge those years or not.
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Re: Hunter Biden Tinfoil issues

Post by cradleandshoot »

njbill wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 9:19 am Gee, Andy sure has lost his fastball. No mention of the fact that the statutes on which the gun charges are based are likely unconstitutional thanks to Clarence Thomas.

It appears Andy isn’t paying very close attention to events anymore. His characterization of why the plea deal blew up is simply wrong. It did not blow up over the immunity issues. Yes, when they went into court, Hunter’s lawyers were taking the position that Hunter was going to get immunity from all future prosecutions. But when the court raised a question about that, the government disagreed with that position. Hunter’s lawyers then backed off and agreed with the government’s position on immunity. McCarthy is 100% wrong here.

The deal blew up over the diversion agreement. The deal included a provision that the court, not the probation department, would make the determination as to whether Hunter had violated probation during the two-year probationary period. The court thought that provision may be unconstitutional and declined to agree to it.

At the time, I wrote that Hunter’s lawyers had really screwed up in not making sure, damn sure, that they had an agreement when they left that court room. While it is certainly understandable that Hunter would be concerned that a vindictive Trump would do anything possible to put him in jail if he returned to office, Hunter’s lawyers misplayed the situation. First of all, Hunter would’ve only had to sweat out perhaps four or five months under a Trump administration. The two year deal would’ve incepted in July 2023 and concluded in July 2025. Trump’s new Attorney General, even assuming he could get one confirmed, wouldn’t take office until February or March 2025 in all likelihood. So Hunter would only have to be a good boy for a few more months. But most importantly, even if the probation department violated him, it would be the judge who would set the sentence, the very same judge who Hunter wanted to make the determination under the diversionary agreement in the first place.

So, yes, Hunter’s lawyers certainly screwed up. But Andy is way off base in his characterization of what happened.

The final chapter has not yet been written on the Hunter Biden prosecutions. Whether he is being treated more harshly or more leniently than the average citizen remains to be seen. But we do know so far that he’s being treated more harshly on the gun charges. If his name was Hunter Smith, he would not have been charged. There is no other reasonable conclusion.

On the other hand, we need a lot more information about the tax charges. Weiss determined not to prosecute the earlier years. (He didn’t “let” the statute of limitations expire.) He will write a report in due time and at that point we can assess whether he appropriately failed to charge those years or not.
So Hunter is being treated more harshly for his gun charges than anybody else would? I don't know how you prove that? We have a thread on this forum all about common sense gun regulations. The vast majority of posters on that thread are virulent anti gun folks. When you throw in Hunters lying on his application so he could illegally possess a firearm and that is as a poster on this forum says is " mice nuts" So where do you folks stand? Do you want to keep weapons out of the hands of people who should not have them?? I sure as hell do.
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Re: Hunter Biden Tinfoil issues

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

"So Hunter is being treated more harshly for his gun charges than anybody else would? I don't know how you prove that?"

You'd have to rise above your strange, almost longing hatred for this guy and read.

https://thehill.com/opinion/4211311-pre ... ter-biden/

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2 ... rry-litman

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 ... fense.html

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/wh ... -situation

https://www.rawstory.com/hunter-biden-gun-charges/

https://themessenger.com/news/hunter-bi ... s-analysis

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/9 ... a-travesty

"There is absolutely no doubt that Hunter Biden was using cocaine when he filled out an ATF firearms transaction record. There’s no doubt that he lied about this both when he filled out the form and when he affirmed to the dealer that the form was accurate. There’s no doubt that while owning the gun over a period of just 11 days, Hunter Biden was in violation of regulations against owning a firearm while addicted to illegal drugs. Biden admits to his 2018 addition in his memoir. The law extends back to any time in the last year. So … case closed.

Except that part of what makes a justice system a justice system is equal application of the laws to everyone. And what’s happening in this case is the opposite. Hunter Biden isn’t really being prosecuted for lying when he filled out a form five years ago. He’s being prosecuted for being Joe Biden’s son.

Just one year before Hunter Biden scribbled his name on that Form 4473, the General Accounting Office carried out a review of how the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives was dealing with those who lied when applying for a firearm.

In that year, 112,090 were denied a gun during the application process for submitting “falsified information.” Of those, 12,710 were referred to the ATF for further investigation. And of those, the total number actually prosecuted was … 12.

That’s just 0.01% of those whose forms were rejected for providing false information. What’s more, the cases were referred for prosecution “when aggravating circumstances exist, such as violent felonies or multiple serious offenses over a short period of time.” None of those circumstances apply to Hunter Biden.

But it’s worse than those numbers might indicate. Hunter Biden was not caught lying on his form during his application. He wasn’t really caught at all. The only reason that prosecutors know about his addiction to cocaine during this period is that Hunter Biden wrote about his struggles with addiction in a 2021 memoir. So he’s being retroactively prosecuted for being honest about the difficulties he experienced and being forthright about his failures.

Biden wasn’t one of 112,090 who were singled out as lying on his form. He was one of 27 million who filled out that form and went on. Now the Department of Justice is backing up five years to charge Hunter Biden with something—for the purposes of charging Hunter Biden with something.

The recommendation of that GAO review in 2017 was that the ATF was spending too much time investigating falsified forms since follow-up prosecutions were so rare. Instead, the GAO recommended that the agency concentrate on keeping track of false information and making information about rejected forms available to local law enforcement. The DOJ concurred with GAO's recommendation.

Following the recommendations of the GAO, the number of cases referred for investigation in the year Hunter Biden made his purchase was greatly reduced, from 12,710 to just 478 referrals. That’s 0.002% of those who applied for a gun that year. But wait. It gets worse.

When The Washington Post took a look at this issue last year, they did so because the ATF and DOJ were being bombarded with tweets insisting that Hunter Biden be charged.

The controversy prompted us to request statistics from the Justice Department to determine whether someone falsely filling out the form faced much of a risk of prosecution. It took months to obtain the data. The answer, it turns out, is no.

According to the Post, most of the cases prosecuted for lying on the form “concerned obvious instances of ‘straw buyers’” where someone was sent into a store to buy a gun for someone else who couldn’t legally purchase a gun, because they had already been convicted of a violent crime. Which seems like exactly the sort of thing the law was designed to catch in the first place.

But of all the statistics that show just how selective “justice” is being in the case of Hunter Biden, the results of a Freedom of Information request sent to Delaware for the year in which the purchase was made may be the most damning.

The provided information shows that in fiscal year 2019, only three Form 4473 cases were referred for prosecution in Delaware. The U.S. attorney for Delaware—that would be David Weiss, the same U.S. attorney in charge of the investigation into Hunter Biden—opted to prosecute none of these cases. None.

Confronted with three other cases involving the exact same charge in the same state, in the same year, Weiss decided to file no charges. But Hunter Biden is getting three charges and the possibility of 25 years.

That really is some very special justice."
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Re: Hunter Biden Tinfoil issues

Post by a fan »

old salt wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:13 am You confuse standards with results. I warned you this would happen when the Russia hoax investigation flopped & Pelosi trivialized impeachment. This is the new normal. Welcome to the criminalization of politics & the weaponization of our justice systems. How many indictments of Trump, all delayed to coincide with the campaign
There it is. Well, at least you finally admit it. You want our politicians to not follow laws, and would have let Nixon serve his second term if you had your way.

Next time, we'll do as you are advising here, and do nothing. Sit back and let our government fall apart because guys like you can't tell the difference between right and wrong anymore.

Let a man who is on Putin's payroll work for a sitting POTUS. Hell, let's make Manafort Chief of Staff, and give him full security clearance, right Old Salt? Who cares if Putin has a seat in the White House?

And we'll also not prosecute Hunter, because Old Salt says "hands off criminals that are related to politicians".

That's what you want? :lol: Gee, OS why is everyone arguing with you about this world you're advocating for here?

Hey fellas.....Old Salt thinks we should leave Bob Menendez alone! He's a politician, and Old Salt says hands off, we're "weaponizing our justice system'.
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Re: Hunter Biden Tinfoil issues

Post by Kismet »

a fan wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:09 am
old salt wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:13 am You confuse standards with results. I warned you this would happen when the Russia hoax investigation flopped & Pelosi trivialized impeachment. This is the new normal. Welcome to the criminalization of politics & the weaponization of our justice systems. How many indictments of Trump, all delayed to coincide with the campaign
There it is. Well, at least you finally admit it. You want our politicians to not follow laws, and would have let Nixon serve his second term if you had your way.

Next time, we'll do as you are advising here, and do nothing. Sit back and let our government fall apart because guys like you can't tell the difference between right and wrong anymore.

Let a man who is on Putin's payroll work for a sitting POTUS. Hell, let's make Manafort Chief of Staff, and give him full security clearance, right Old Salt? Who cares if Putin has a seat in the White House?

And we'll also not prosecute Hunter, because Old Salt says "hands off criminals that are related to politicians".

That's what you want? :lol: Gee, OS why is everyone arguing with you about this world you're advocating for here?

Hey fellas.....Old Salt thinks we should leave Bob Menendez alone! He's a politician, and Old Salt says hands off, we're "weaponizing our justice system'.
Actually, Saltine will be all over Menendez just like Hunter Biden because he's of the other side and that's what he does here - every day all day applying totally different standards to people that appear to be on HIS side and demonizing those who aren't part of his crowd. The usual partisan BS while trying to tell us he's not partisan. :lol: :oops:

May explain why this thread is a total waste of bandwidth. :D
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Re: Hunter Biden Tinfoil issues

Post by a fan »

Kismet wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:53 am
a fan wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:09 am
old salt wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:13 am You confuse standards with results. I warned you this would happen when the Russia hoax investigation flopped & Pelosi trivialized impeachment. This is the new normal. Welcome to the criminalization of politics & the weaponization of our justice systems. How many indictments of Trump, all delayed to coincide with the campaign
There it is. Well, at least you finally admit it. You want our politicians to not follow laws, and would have let Nixon serve his second term if you had your way.

Next time, we'll do as you are advising here, and do nothing. Sit back and let our government fall apart because guys like you can't tell the difference between right and wrong anymore.

Let a man who is on Putin's payroll work for a sitting POTUS. Hell, let's make Manafort Chief of Staff, and give him full security clearance, right Old Salt? Who cares if Putin has a seat in the White House?

And we'll also not prosecute Hunter, because Old Salt says "hands off criminals that are related to politicians".

That's what you want? :lol: Gee, OS why is everyone arguing with you about this world you're advocating for here?

Hey fellas.....Old Salt thinks we should leave Bob Menendez alone! He's a politician, and Old Salt says hands off, we're "weaponizing our justice system'.
Actually, Saltine will be all over Menendez just like Hunter Biden because he's of the other side and that's what he does here - every day all day applying totally different standards to people that appear to be on HIS side and demonizing those who aren't part of his crowd.
Oh he knows. Old Salt has been caught having two standards so many times, we've all lost count.

He knows he does this. He also knows it's wrong to think like this. But he can't help himself, like millions of other partisans. And, like millions of partisans, he's NEVER admit that he does this.

And the reason he knows (and guys like Petey and others here who have tried to get away with their hypocrisy), is that he's been posting on the Water Cooler, where folks don't put up with this silliness.

With Hunter? The Dems and moderates, yet again, have the moral high ground. No one is claiming that they weaponized the Justice system. No one is whining about unfair treatment, even though the entire operation is run by Republicans (something OS and others would never tolerate). We certainly recognize that he's not being treated by Federal investigators the same as a regular person (duh), but we all understand WHY Hunter is being treated differently. Protip: pay your taxes like everyone else, and don't lie on Federal forms.

And no one would be surprised------or care----if Hunter was thrown in jail. No claims of Deep State. No claims of FBI corruption. No demands for Durham to go after the FBI, DoJ and IRS agents and turn their lives upside down. No claims that Weiss is trying to ruin Joe Biden.

Pity the Forum's Deep Staters didn't behave like this when the tables were turned. But it shows how much damage RightWingMedia coupled with Trump has done to a once proud and effective party. The Republican party of my youth is bye-bye.
njbill
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Re: Hunter Biden Tinfoil issues

Post by njbill »

cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 9:58 am So Hunter is being treated more harshly for his gun charges than anybody else would? I don't know how you prove that? We have a thread on this forum all about common sense gun regulations. The vast majority of posters on that thread are virulent anti gun folks. When you throw in Hunters lying on his application so he could illegally possess a firearm and that is as a poster on this forum says is " mice nuts" So where do you folks stand? Do you want to keep weapons out of the hands of people who should not have them?? I sure as hell do.
Oh, I am virulently anti-gun. I think the laws Hunter was charged under should be constitutional, but I’m not on the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court appears to be saying they are unconstitutional. If that’s the case, then Hunter shouldn’t be charged.

If the laws were constitutional, I would be all for prosecuting all violations, but that isn’t what happens in the real world. Essentially nobody in Hunter’s position is prosecuted. He is being prosecuted solely because he is Joe Biden’s son which is 100% wrong. Everybody on the planet knows that though the MAGAs won’t admit it.

My guess is Hunter is going to end up pleading to something really minor with respect to the gun charges. He won’t (and shouldn’t) see any jail time. The MAGAs’ heads will explode again.
Farfromgeneva
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Re: Hunter Biden Tinfoil issues

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Seacoaster(1) wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 10:48 am "So Hunter is being treated more harshly for his gun charges than anybody else would? I don't know how you prove that?"

You'd have to rise above your strange, almost longing hatred for this guy and read.

https://thehill.com/opinion/4211311-pre ... ter-biden/

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2 ... rry-litman

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 ... fense.html

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/wh ... -situation

https://www.rawstory.com/hunter-biden-gun-charges/

https://themessenger.com/news/hunter-bi ... s-analysis

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/9 ... a-travesty

"There is absolutely no doubt that Hunter Biden was using cocaine when he filled out an ATF firearms transaction record. There’s no doubt that he lied about this both when he filled out the form and when he affirmed to the dealer that the form was accurate. There’s no doubt that while owning the gun over a period of just 11 days, Hunter Biden was in violation of regulations against owning a firearm while addicted to illegal drugs. Biden admits to his 2018 addition in his memoir. The law extends back to any time in the last year. So … case closed.

Except that part of what makes a justice system a justice system is equal application of the laws to everyone. And what’s happening in this case is the opposite. Hunter Biden isn’t really being prosecuted for lying when he filled out a form five years ago. He’s being prosecuted for being Joe Biden’s son.

Just one year before Hunter Biden scribbled his name on that Form 4473, the General Accounting Office carried out a review of how the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives was dealing with those who lied when applying for a firearm.

In that year, 112,090 were denied a gun during the application process for submitting “falsified information.” Of those, 12,710 were referred to the ATF for further investigation. And of those, the total number actually prosecuted was … 12.

That’s just 0.01% of those whose forms were rejected for providing false information. What’s more, the cases were referred for prosecution “when aggravating circumstances exist, such as violent felonies or multiple serious offenses over a short period of time.” None of those circumstances apply to Hunter Biden.

But it’s worse than those numbers might indicate. Hunter Biden was not caught lying on his form during his application. He wasn’t really caught at all. The only reason that prosecutors know about his addiction to cocaine during this period is that Hunter Biden wrote about his struggles with addiction in a 2021 memoir. So he’s being retroactively prosecuted for being honest about the difficulties he experienced and being forthright about his failures.

Biden wasn’t one of 112,090 who were singled out as lying on his form. He was one of 27 million who filled out that form and went on. Now the Department of Justice is backing up five years to charge Hunter Biden with something—for the purposes of charging Hunter Biden with something.

The recommendation of that GAO review in 2017 was that the ATF was spending too much time investigating falsified forms since follow-up prosecutions were so rare. Instead, the GAO recommended that the agency concentrate on keeping track of false information and making information about rejected forms available to local law enforcement. The DOJ concurred with GAO's recommendation.

Following the recommendations of the GAO, the number of cases referred for investigation in the year Hunter Biden made his purchase was greatly reduced, from 12,710 to just 478 referrals. That’s 0.002% of those who applied for a gun that year. But wait. It gets worse.

When The Washington Post took a look at this issue last year, they did so because the ATF and DOJ were being bombarded with tweets insisting that Hunter Biden be charged.

The controversy prompted us to request statistics from the Justice Department to determine whether someone falsely filling out the form faced much of a risk of prosecution. It took months to obtain the data. The answer, it turns out, is no.

According to the Post, most of the cases prosecuted for lying on the form “concerned obvious instances of ‘straw buyers’” where someone was sent into a store to buy a gun for someone else who couldn’t legally purchase a gun, because they had already been convicted of a violent crime. Which seems like exactly the sort of thing the law was designed to catch in the first place.

But of all the statistics that show just how selective “justice” is being in the case of Hunter Biden, the results of a Freedom of Information request sent to Delaware for the year in which the purchase was made may be the most damning.

The provided information shows that in fiscal year 2019, only three Form 4473 cases were referred for prosecution in Delaware. The U.S. attorney for Delaware—that would be David Weiss, the same U.S. attorney in charge of the investigation into Hunter Biden—opted to prosecute none of these cases. None.

Confronted with three other cases involving the exact same charge in the same state, in the same year, Weiss decided to file no charges. But Hunter Biden is getting three charges and the possibility of 25 years.

That really is some very special justice."
This is what we do in this country and it’s a dumb joke. Cradle is at the front of the line. There’s no such thing as rehabilitation in the minds of people here. It may be tossed around as a distraction but it’s not an ethos believed in.
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I am going to get a 4.0 in damage.

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Farfromgeneva
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Re: Hunter Biden Tinfoil issues

Post by Farfromgeneva »

cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 9:58 am
njbill wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 9:19 am Gee, Andy sure has lost his fastball. No mention of the fact that the statutes on which the gun charges are based are likely unconstitutional thanks to Clarence Thomas.

It appears Andy isn’t paying very close attention to events anymore. His characterization of why the plea deal blew up is simply wrong. It did not blow up over the immunity issues. Yes, when they went into court, Hunter’s lawyers were taking the position that Hunter was going to get immunity from all future prosecutions. But when the court raised a question about that, the government disagreed with that position. Hunter’s lawyers then backed off and agreed with the government’s position on immunity. McCarthy is 100% wrong here.

The deal blew up over the diversion agreement. The deal included a provision that the court, not the probation department, would make the determination as to whether Hunter had violated probation during the two-year probationary period. The court thought that provision may be unconstitutional and declined to agree to it.

At the time, I wrote that Hunter’s lawyers had really screwed up in not making sure, damn sure, that they had an agreement when they left that court room. While it is certainly understandable that Hunter would be concerned that a vindictive Trump would do anything possible to put him in jail if he returned to office, Hunter’s lawyers misplayed the situation. First of all, Hunter would’ve only had to sweat out perhaps four or five months under a Trump administration. The two year deal would’ve incepted in July 2023 and concluded in July 2025. Trump’s new Attorney General, even assuming he could get one confirmed, wouldn’t take office until February or March 2025 in all likelihood. So Hunter would only have to be a good boy for a few more months. But most importantly, even if the probation department violated him, it would be the judge who would set the sentence, the very same judge who Hunter wanted to make the determination under the diversionary agreement in the first place.

So, yes, Hunter’s lawyers certainly screwed up. But Andy is way off base in his characterization of what happened.

The final chapter has not yet been written on the Hunter Biden prosecutions. Whether he is being treated more harshly or more leniently than the average citizen remains to be seen. But we do know so far that he’s being treated more harshly on the gun charges. If his name was Hunter Smith, he would not have been charged. There is no other reasonable conclusion.

On the other hand, we need a lot more information about the tax charges. Weiss determined not to prosecute the earlier years. (He didn’t “let” the statute of limitations expire.) He will write a report in due time and at that point we can assess whether he appropriately failed to charge those years or not.
So Hunter is being treated more harshly for his gun charges than anybody else would? I don't know how you prove that? We have a thread on this forum all about common sense gun regulations. The vast majority of posters on that thread are virulent anti gun folks. When you throw in Hunters lying on his application so he could illegally possess a firearm and that is as a poster on this forum says is " mice nuts" So where do you folks stand? Do you want to keep weapons out of the hands of people who should not have them?? I sure as hell do.
You have no problem with all sorts of leaps to conclusion and conjecture but when someone with domain knowledge and working experience close to this articulates a rigorous review or analysis your response is “I don’t know how you’d prove that”?

So dumb. There’s nothing you’ve ever written that is provable but you are convinced of what you believe in. Even when presented facts demonstrate otherwise.
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Farfromgeneva
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Re: Hunter Biden Tinfoil issues

Post by Farfromgeneva »

a fan wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 12:37 pm
Kismet wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:53 am
a fan wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:09 am
old salt wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:13 am You confuse standards with results. I warned you this would happen when the Russia hoax investigation flopped & Pelosi trivialized impeachment. This is the new normal. Welcome to the criminalization of politics & the weaponization of our justice systems. How many indictments of Trump, all delayed to coincide with the campaign
There it is. Well, at least you finally admit it. You want our politicians to not follow laws, and would have let Nixon serve his second term if you had your way.

Next time, we'll do as you are advising here, and do nothing. Sit back and let our government fall apart because guys like you can't tell the difference between right and wrong anymore.

Let a man who is on Putin's payroll work for a sitting POTUS. Hell, let's make Manafort Chief of Staff, and give him full security clearance, right Old Salt? Who cares if Putin has a seat in the White House?

And we'll also not prosecute Hunter, because Old Salt says "hands off criminals that are related to politicians".

That's what you want? :lol: Gee, OS why is everyone arguing with you about this world you're advocating for here?

Hey fellas.....Old Salt thinks we should leave Bob Menendez alone! He's a politician, and Old Salt says hands off, we're "weaponizing our justice system'.
Actually, Saltine will be all over Menendez just like Hunter Biden because he's of the other side and that's what he does here - every day all day applying totally different standards to people that appear to be on HIS side and demonizing those who aren't part of his crowd.
Oh he knows. Old Salt has been caught having two standards so many times, we've all lost count.

He knows he does this. He also knows it's wrong to think like this. But he can't help himself, like millions of other partisans. And, like millions of partisans, he's NEVER admit that he does this.

And the reason he knows (and guys like Petey and others here who have tried to get away with their hypocrisy), is that he's been posting on the Water Cooler, where folks don't put up with this silliness.

With Hunter? The Dems and moderates, yet again, have the moral high ground. No one is claiming that they weaponized the Justice system. No one is whining about unfair treatment, even though the entire operation is run by Republicans (something OS and others would never tolerate). We certainly recognize that he's not being treated by Federal investigators the same as a regular person (duh), but we all understand WHY Hunter is being treated differently. Protip: pay your taxes like everyone else, and don't lie on Federal forms.

And no one would be surprised------or care----if Hunter was thrown in jail. No claims of Deep State. No claims of FBI corruption. No demands for Durham to go after the FBI, DoJ and IRS agents and turn their lives upside down. No claims that Weiss is trying to ruin Joe Biden.

Pity the Forum's Deep Staters didn't behave like this when the tables were turned. But it shows how much damage RightWingMedia coupled with Trump has done to a once proud and effective party. The Republican party of my youth is bye-bye.
EGO
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old salt
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Re: Hunter Biden Tinfoil issues

Post by old salt »

a fan wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 12:37 pm And no one would be surprised------or care----if Hunter was thrown in jail.
Are you kidding ? They're already complaining about how unfair it is that he's being charged on the gun violations.
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Re: Hunter Biden Tinfoil issues

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 6:56 pm
a fan wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 12:37 pm And no one would be surprised------or care----if Hunter was thrown in jail.
Are you kidding ? They're already complaining about how unfair it is that he's being charged on the gun violations.
Who are “they”… and is an observation a complaint?
“I wish you would!”
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old salt
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Re: Hunter Biden Tinfoil issues

Post by old salt »

Hunter's harmless 11 days of gun ownership. :lol:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... ZiEALw_wcB

He even managed to use it as a prop in a photo op with a hooker.

https://nypost.com/2022/06/06/naked-hun ... un-photos/
a fan
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Re: Hunter Biden Tinfoil issues

Post by a fan »

old salt wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 7:17 pm Hunter's harmless 11 days of gun ownership. :lol:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... ZiEALw_wcB
Suddenly "process crimes" are important for Old Salt after years of yelling and screaming about how they don't count, and mean F-all.

And I thought that when you get caught lying on Federal forms, it's because you were tricked by the FBI? Where'd that excuse of yours go?

And while we're at it....when do we get to sick Congress, Durham, and FBI's internal affairs on the agents who investigated Hunter, OS? You're gonna want that, right? And if we find out that the agents didn't like Hunter....we get to fire them, like Strozk and Page, right?

Just making sure all your Deep State rules are followed here.
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old salt
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Re: Hunter Biden Tinfoil issues

Post by old salt »

old salt wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 7:17 pm Hunter's harmless 11 days of gun ownership. :lol:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... ZiEALw_wcB

He even managed to use it as a prop in a photo op with a hooker.

https://nypost.com/2022/06/06/naked-hun ... un-photos/
...& Hunter was a victim of his own candor for revealing he was an addict in his book. :lol:

Nobody noticed his 6 rehab visits & General Discharge from the Navy for a failed pee test.

...or the crack pipe in the abandoned rental car

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... ar-in-2016
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old salt
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Re: Hunter Biden Tinfoil issues

Post by old salt »

a fan wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 7:24 pm
old salt wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 7:17 pm Hunter's harmless 11 days of gun ownership. :lol:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... ZiEALw_wcB
Suddenly "process crimes" are important for Old Salt after years of yelling and screaming about how they don't count, and mean F-all.

And I thought that when you get caught lying on Federal forms, it's because you were tricked by the FBI? Where'd that excuse of yours go?

And while we're at it....when do we get to sick Congress, Durham, and FBI's internal affairs on the agents who investigated Hunter, OS? You're gonna want that, right? And if we find out that the agents didn't like Hunter....we get to fire them, like Strozk and Page, right?

Just making sure all your Deep State rules are followed here.
Since when was illegal ownership of a gun a process crime.

Nobody set Hunter up to lie on a govt from or to illegally purchase a gun. He did that all on his own.

He wasn't ambushed by FBI agents at the airport or in his office.
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