All things CoronaVirus

[Typical Lax Dad]

Blindly trusting your Dr is NOT always the best option. YOU must be your own advocate.

Co worker’s wife was almost paralyzed if she listened to her doctor after birth. Second opinion said, thank Heaven for the nurse on staff that recommended a second opinion.

My mom, just this week, was told she needed shots to treat Osteoporosis, shots that have negative side effects that impact her. Dr still recommended them. Mom went home, studied Radiologist reading and low and behold, the Radiologist read her bone scan wrong. And the kicker…..he didn’t admit it and claimed the test results were not submitted to him accurately….her Dr. said he was full of crap and screwed up. Her Dr. apologized multiple times.

Yep, and not to pick on a fan too much but he's being binary again. He can't understand that you can actually listen to your personal doctor AND consider other information you hear and read at the same time. It's called being informed.

How about going to a second real doctor or specialist? So when I get some advice on High Voltage cable that I am not sure about, instead of a second expert, I do my own research?

[Typical Lax Dad]

[tech37]

Blindly trusting your Dr is NOT always the best option. YOU must be your own advocate.

Co worker’s wife was almost paralyzed if she listened to her doctor after birth. Second opinion said, thank Heaven for the nurse on staff that recommended a second opinion.

My mom, just this week, was told she needed shots to treat Osteoporosis, shots that have negative side effects that impact her. Dr still recommended them. Mom went home, studied Radiologist reading and low and behold, the Radiologist read her bone scan wrong. And the kicker…..he didn’t admit it and claimed the test results were not submitted to him accurately….her Dr. said he was full of crap and screwed up. Her Dr. apologized multiple times.

Yep, and not to pick on a fan too much but he's being binary again. He can't understand that you can actually listen to your personal doctor AND consider other information you hear and read at the same time. It's called being informed.

How about going to a second real doctor or specialist? So when I get some advice on High Voltage cable that I am not sure about, instead of a second expert, I do my own research?

How about you state the obvious some more. If a person wants a 4th opinion from doctors that's their personal decision and obviously nothing wrong with it.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Blindly trusting your Dr is NOT always the best option. YOU must be your own advocate.

Co worker’s wife was almost paralyzed if she listened to her doctor after birth. Second opinion said, thank Heaven for the nurse on staff that recommended a second opinion.

My mom, just this week, was told she needed shots to treat Osteoporosis, shots that have negative side effects that impact her. Dr still recommended them. Mom went home, studied Radiologist reading and low and behold, the Radiologist read her bone scan wrong. And the kicker…..he didn’t admit it and claimed the test results were not submitted to him accurately….her Dr. said he was full of crap and screwed up. Her Dr. apologized multiple times.

Yep, and not to pick on a fan too much but he's being binary again. He can't understand that you can actually listen to your personal doctor AND consider other information you hear and read at the same time. It's called being informed.

How about going to a second real doctor or specialist? So when I get some advice on High Voltage cable that I am not sure about, instead of a second expert, I do my own research?

How about you state the obvious some more. If a person wants a 4th opinion from doctors that's their personal decision and obviously nothing wrong with it.

Or like my sister, you can keep seeking a doctor until you get the one that tells you what you want to hear…..4 doctors later. She didn’t see a 5th after I asked her when she would get another opinion.

[youthathletics]

Blindly trusting your Dr is NOT always the best option. YOU must be your own advocate.

Co worker’s wife was almost paralyzed if she listened to her doctor after birth. Second opinion said, thank Heaven for the nurse on staff that recommended a second opinion.

My mom, just this week, was told she needed shots to treat Osteoporosis, shots that have negative side effects that impact her. Dr still recommended them. Mom went home, studied Radiologist reading and low and behold, the Radiologist read her bone scan wrong. And the kicker…..he didn’t admit it and claimed the test results were not submitted to him accurately….her Dr. said he was full of crap and screwed up. Her Dr. apologized multiple times.

Yep, and not to pick on a fan too much but he's being binary again. He can't understand that you can actually listen to your personal doctor AND consider other information you hear and read at the same time. It's called being informed.

How about going to a second real doctor or specialist? So when I get some advice on High Voltage cable that I am not sure about, instead of a second expert, I do my own research?

How about you state the obvious some more. If a person wants a 4th opinion from doctors that's their personal decision and obviously nothing wrong with it.

Or like my sister, you can keep seeking a doctor until you get the one that tells you what you want to hear…..4 doctors later. She didn’t see a 5th after I asked her when she would get another opinion.

The point is that you do not put blind trust in things or others that ultimately can effect your body. But you be you, and continue to make light of a serious conversation that impact all walks of life differently. Each person processes information differently. Rather than ridiculing your sister on an open forum, have some empathy for her, she may very well process trauma differently. But maybe gaslighting her will work, since its your MO around here.

[a fan]

Blindly trusting your Dr is NOT always the best option. YOU must be your own advocate.

Co worker’s wife was almost paralyzed if she listened to her doctor after birth. Second opinion said, thank Heaven for the nurse on staff that recommended a second opinion.

My mom, just this week, was told she needed shots to treat Osteoporosis, shots that have negative side effects that impact her. Dr still recommended them. Mom went home, studied Radiologist reading and low and behold, the Radiologist read her bone scan wrong. And the kicker…..he didn’t admit it and claimed the test results were not submitted to him accurately….her Dr. said he was full of crap and screwed up. Her Dr. apologized multiple times.

Yep, and not to pick on a fan too much but he's being binary again. He can't understand that you can actually listen to your personal doctor AND consider other information you hear and read at the same time. It's called being informed.

You're not picking on me....you're simply not paying attention to what I just wrote. Here it is again: enlarged, and bolded to make it even easier.

I've said the same thing from the word go. Long before this idiocy of pretending that you can "google your healthcare" became hip and edgy and cool.

Check with your personal doctor. You know: the guy/gal with the CV and training that reads these JAMA article, and actually understands what they mean. They guy/gal I know doggone well you pay thousands of dollars a year to get their medical advice.

Check with them. Ignore the internet. Ignore the FDA. Ignore the CDC. Work with your doctor, who knows you and your history. Ask questions until you're blue in the face. Questions are good.

That's it. And if you're actually doing that, Tech? You're doing the exact same thing I am, and you're just making pointless noise here about your meta-understanding of medical issues. And you're welcome to do that. Knock yourself out.

That clearer now? It's not binary-----use your doctor answer all your questions. Get a third opinion from a doctor. It's why I reacted to your mocking of the "medical establishment". You are implying that people shouldn't listen to their doctors, whether you know it or not.




Largely, we're talking past each other, and have lost where this conversation started.

Here's what I reacting to. Short list:

1. folks scapegoating Fauci, and acting like there was some perfect path he could have taken. When in reality, he had a variety of sh(tty choices to choose from. Fauci would have liked nothing more for 10 years to pass before making suggestions on what to do. It's childish and moronic to hold Fauci to an impossible standard that no one else is held to. NO ONE got it right during the pandemic...and reason for that was, there was no such thing as right. We did our best in an impossible no-win situation that killed over a million of our fellow Americans. TeamTinFoilHat doesn't want to hear this....so they hammer Fauci and others over and over and over because they weren't perfect.

2. This is the part we're discussing now: you don't seem to understand that millions----millions----of Americans are skipping their doctors entirely, and instead, are getting their medical advice from the internet. Millions of them. Some, because they can't afford a doctor. Some, by choice. I pity those who can't afford a doctor, and despise all the disinformation coming from people and sites that get paid by the click, and have no interest in telling anyone the whole story. Theses ***holes are killing people, Tech.

3. These "some guys on the internet" that I mock NEVER tell the whole story. They never start by saying that, for example, in 2020, there was no such thing as "the perfect move" or even a "good move". Do you think the FDA and Fauci and everyone else wouldn't have LOVED to test the Covid vaccines for a couple of decades before releasing them? Well, TeamTinFoil keeps thinking that. They ignore that we've had 1,000,000+ Americans drop dead from this freaking virus, and act like the Covid vaxx was made for fun, and on a whim.

When I see this attitude? I don't believe one word they say, because they're not here for an honest accounting, and honest evaluation, or giving people honest choices. They just want to throw stones, and/or get paid.

[a fan]

The point is that you do not put blind trust in things or others that ultimately can effect your body.

You also don't weigh all information you take in, and pretend it's all equal in value. It ain't.

And I as I just reminded Tech, you are forgetting that millions of Americans skipped getting advice from their Doctors entirely.

Some because they are poor, and some by choice. THAT is what we are mocking here: those who did that by choice.


I HATE that the poor in America are subjected to so much white noise and stupidity masquerading as helpful Covid medical advice.

[Farfromgeneva]

Blindly trusting your Dr is NOT always the best option. YOU must be your own advocate.

Co worker’s wife was almost paralyzed if she listened to her doctor after birth. Second opinion said, thank Heaven for the nurse on staff that recommended a second opinion.

My mom, just this week, was told she needed shots to treat Osteoporosis, shots that have negative side effects that impact her. Dr still recommended them. Mom went home, studied Radiologist reading and low and behold, the Radiologist read her bone scan wrong. And the kicker…..he didn’t admit it and claimed the test results were not submitted to him accurately….her Dr. said he was full of crap and screwed up. Her Dr. apologized multiple times.

Yep, and not to pick on a fan too much but he's being binary again. He can't understand that you can actually listen to your personal doctor AND consider other information you hear and read at the same time. It's called being informed.

You're not picking on me....you're simply not paying attention to what I just wrote. Here it is again: enlarged, and bolded to make it even easier.

I've said the same thing from the word go. Long before this idiocy of pretending that you can "google your healthcare" became hip and edgy and cool.

Check with your personal doctor. You know: the guy/gal with the CV and training that reads these JAMA article, and actually understands what they mean. They guy/gal I know doggone well you pay thousands of dollars a year to get their medical advice.

Check with them. Ignore the internet. Ignore the FDA. Ignore the CDC. Work with your doctor, who knows you and your history. Ask questions until you're blue in the face. Questions are good.

That's it. And if you're actually doing that, Tech? You're doing the exact same thing I am, and you're just making pointless noise here about your meta-understanding of medical issues. And you're welcome to do that. Knock yourself out.

That clearer now? It's not binary-----use your doctor answer all your questions. Get a third opinion from a doctor. It's why I reacted to your mocking of the "medical establishment". You are implying that people shouldn't listen to their doctors, whether you know it or not.




Largely, we're talking past each other, and have lost where this conversation started.

Here's what I reacting to. Short list:

1. folks scapegoating Fauci, and acting like there was some perfect path he could have taken. When in reality, he had a variety of sh(tty choices to choose from. Fauci would have liked nothing more for 10 years to pass before making suggestions on what to do. It's childish and moronic to hold Fauci to an impossible standard that no one else is held to. NO ONE got it right during the pandemic...and reason for that was, there was no such thing as right. We did our best in an impossible no-win situation that killed over a million of our fellow Americans. TeamTinFoilHat doesn't want to hear this....so they hammer Fauci and others over and over and over because they weren't perfect.

2. This is the part we're discussing now: you don't seem to understand that millions----millions----of Americans are skipping their doctors entirely, and instead, are getting their medical advice from the internet. Millions of them. Some, because they can't afford a doctor. Some, by choice. I pity those who can't afford a doctor, and despise all the disinformation coming from people and sites that get paid by the click, and have no interest in telling anyone the whole story. Theses ***holes are killing people, Tech.

3. These "some guys on the internet" that I mock NEVER tell the whole story. They never start by saying that, for example, in 2020, there was no such thing as "the perfect move" or even a "good move". Do you think the FDA and Fauci and everyone else wouldn't have LOVED to test the Covid vaccines for a couple of decades before releasing them? Well, TeamTinFoil keeps thinking that. They ignore that we've had 1,000,000+ Americans drop dead from this freaking virus, and act like the Covid vaxx was made for fun, and on a whim.

When I see this attitude? I don't believe one word they say, because they're not here for an honest accounting, and honest evaluation, or giving people honest choices. They just want to throw stones, and/or get paid.

Meta understanding. Excellent.

[youthathletics]

The point is that you do not put blind trust in things or others that ultimately can effect your body.

You also don't weigh all information you take in, and pretend it's all equal in value. It ain't.

And I as I just reminded Tech, you are forgetting that millions of Americans skipped getting advice from their Doctors entirely.

Some because they are poor, and some by choice. THAT is what we are mocking here: those who did that by choice.


I HATE that the poor in America are subjected to so much white noise and stupidity masquerading as helpful Covid medical advice.

And in that thin line between your thoughts and those we present, is the white noise that we also heard during the early times. People were weighing that intel equally, especially those that knew plenty of people that did have it, in their same demo, and walked away just fine in a week or so.

~ People with comorbidities
~ People with cardio and lung issues
~ People with Parkinsons and other diseases
~ The elderly and sedentary

Yes, I understand what you are saying, completely, but you can also not sit back and judge others who weighed their decision 'by choice' to not get a shot if they were not in a concerned demographic.

[a fan]

The point is that you do not put blind trust in things or others that ultimately can effect your body.

You also don't weigh all information you take in, and pretend it's all equal in value. It ain't.

And I as I just reminded Tech, you are forgetting that millions of Americans skipped getting advice from their Doctors entirely.

Some because they are poor, and some by choice. THAT is what we are mocking here: those who did that by choice.


I HATE that the poor in America are subjected to so much white noise and stupidity masquerading as helpful Covid medical advice.

And in that thin line between your thoughts and those we present, is the white noise that we also heard during the early times. People were weighing that intel equally, especially those that knew plenty of people that did have it, in their same demo, and walked away just fine in a week or so.

~ People with comorbidities
~ People with cardio and lung issues
~ People with Parkinsons and other diseases
~ The elderly and sedentary

Yes, I understand what you are saying, completely, but you can also not sit back and judge others who weighed their decision 'by choice' to not get a shot if they were not in a concerned demographic.

And I said, clearly, starting when the Vaxx was avaialable...that if your doctor told you not to get the thing, and you didn't? They are doing EXACTLY what I would advise, I'm 1000% behind those people, just as I"m behind folks who do get the shot on the advice of their doctor. It's why I keep saying to ignore Fauci...and listen to the doctor who knows you have valid reasons NOT to get the shot.

I'm also behind those who couldn't afford a doctor, and were stuck with the idiots on the internet. I HATE that they don't have access to doctors, which is yet another example of how F'ed our country is, with no end in sight.

What I'm vehemently against are the selfish ***holes who are telling people to not trust the Doctor, and to use google. And there are MILLIONS of these idiots. And they are KILLING their fellow Americans with this garbage.

We've been talking past each other.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Blindly trusting your Dr is NOT always the best option. YOU must be your own advocate.

Co worker’s wife was almost paralyzed if she listened to her doctor after birth. Second opinion said, thank Heaven for the nurse on staff that recommended a second opinion.

My mom, just this week, was told she needed shots to treat Osteoporosis, shots that have negative side effects that impact her. Dr still recommended them. Mom went home, studied Radiologist reading and low and behold, the Radiologist read her bone scan wrong. And the kicker…..he didn’t admit it and claimed the test results were not submitted to him accurately….her Dr. said he was full of crap and screwed up. Her Dr. apologized multiple times.

Yep, and not to pick on a fan too much but he's being binary again. He can't understand that you can actually listen to your personal doctor AND consider other information you hear and read at the same time. It's called being informed.

How about going to a second real doctor or specialist? So when I get some advice on High Voltage cable that I am not sure about, instead of a second expert, I do my own research?

How about you state the obvious some more. If a person wants a 4th opinion from doctors that's their personal decision and obviously nothing wrong with it.

Or like my sister, you can keep seeking a doctor until you get the one that tells you what you want to hear…..4 doctors later. She didn’t see a 5th after I asked her when she would get another opinion.

The point is that you do not put blind trust in things or others that ultimately can effect your body. But you be you, and continue to make light of a serious conversation that impact all walks of life differently. Each person processes information differently. Rather than ridiculing your sister on an open forum, have some empathy for her, she may very well process trauma differently. But maybe gaslighting her will work, since its your MO around here.

You think I don’t know my sister? You have a sister? My sister and I laugh about this all the time….. we talk a few times a week.

[youthathletics]

The point is that you do not put blind trust in things or others that ultimately can effect your body.

You also don't weigh all information you take in, and pretend it's all equal in value. It ain't.

And I as I just reminded Tech, you are forgetting that millions of Americans skipped getting advice from their Doctors entirely.

Some because they are poor, and some by choice. THAT is what we are mocking here: those who did that by choice.


I HATE that the poor in America are subjected to so much white noise and stupidity masquerading as helpful Covid medical advice.

And in that thin line between your thoughts and those we present, is the white noise that we also heard during the early times. People were weighing that intel equally, especially those that knew plenty of people that did have it, in their same demo, and walked away just fine in a week or so.

~ People with comorbidities
~ People with cardio and lung issues
~ People with Parkinsons and other diseases
~ The elderly and sedentary

Yes, I understand what you are saying, completely, but you can also not sit back and judge others who weighed their decision 'by choice' to not get a shot if they were not in a concerned demographic.

And I said, clearly, starting when the Vaxx was avaialable...that if your doctor told you not to get the thing, and you didn't? They are doing EXACTLY what I would advise, I'm 1000% behind those people, just as I"m behind folks who do get the shot on the advice of their doctor. It's why I keep saying to ignore Fauci...and listen to the doctor who knows you have valid reasons NOT to get the shot.

I'm also behind those who couldn't afford a doctor, and were stuck with the idiots on the internet. I HATE that they don't have access to doctors, which is yet another example of how F'ed our country is, with no end in sight.

What I'm vehemently against are the selfish ***holes who are telling people to not trust the Doctor, and to use google. And there are MILLIONS of these idiots. And they are KILLING their fellow Americans with this garbage.

We've been talking past each other.

All good, I know where you are coming from.

[runrussellrun]

This same stupid argument that doesn’t reasonably or appropriately frame things.

What is the bias towards being safer as an end game? Screw republicans? Put down the Revolution of the down and out POS who want to play tough guy victims and blame everyone else because they’ve either given up on life or are too afraid of change.

Acting blindly in the first few months of 2020 with simply a single retail doctor opinion wouldn’t make any more sense than any of the idiotic, pathetic reasons people pushed back so hard against it all.

A stupid framing/analogy that’s loaded and pathetic.

Amazing response.

It isn't really any wonder why many are facistnated with the criminally insane......lots of "entertainment" shows about it too.

I too find this , fascistnating....like a street. Facistnation Street.

insert cure video

[runrussellrun]

The point is that you do not put blind trust in things or others that ultimately can effect your body.

You also don't weigh all information you take in, and pretend it's all equal in value. It ain't.

And I as I just reminded Tech, you are forgetting that millions of Americans skipped getting advice from their Doctors entirely.

Some because they are poor, and some by choice. THAT is what we are mocking here: those who did that by choice.


I HATE that the poor in America are subjected to so much white noise and stupidity masquerading as helpful Covid medical advice.

And in that thin line between your thoughts and those we present, is the white noise that we also heard during the early times. People were weighing that intel equally, especially those that knew plenty of people that did have it, in their same demo, and walked away just fine in a week or so.

~ People with comorbidities
~ People with cardio and lung issues
~ People with Parkinsons and other diseases
~ The elderly and sedentary

Yes, I understand what you are saying, completely, but you can also not sit back and judge others who weighed their decision 'by choice' to not get a shot if they were not in a concerned demographic.

And I said, clearly, starting when the Vaxx was avaialable...that if your doctor told you not to get the thing, and you didn't? They are doing EXACTLY what I would advise, I'm 1000% behind those people, just as I"m behind folks who do get the shot on the advice of their doctor. It's why I keep saying to ignore Fauci...and listen to the doctor who knows you have valid reasons NOT to get the shot. NOT about YOU....it IS about the reality that employers could give a rats arse about what your doctor told you......you are taking the damn jab. afan doesn't wanna learn about medical exceptions being laughed at....you are talking the jab.

I'm also behind those who couldn't afford a doctor, and were stuck with the idiots on the internet. I HATE that they don't have access to doctors, which is yet another example of how F'ed our country is, with no end in sight.

What I'm vehemently against are the selfish ***holes who are telling people to not trust the Doctor, and to use google. And there are MILLIONS of these idiots. And they are KILLING their fellow Americans with this garbage. "killing", how so ?

We've been talking past each other.

get a load of this guy......

the end results are exactly the same. No fake vaccine taken.

Only, this guy says, the ones who made their own conclusions, based on their own intellect and research, due diligence, etc.....are "killers"

This guy also says: if your doctor says not to take it ....don't. but, not "killers". smart. trusting the experts.

same outcome. strange that you differentiate the individuals so drastically, considering they have the exact, same, conclusions.

bizarre world.

.

find it odd that the FDA and fizer colluded, and got, a 75 year "lockdown" on the fizer covid drug research/results, etc.

No.....not strange at all.

And, after the lawsuit, and now all released research.........the same folks that ignore...ignore.......ignore.

Shills for tRumps warp speed drug..........

[SCLaxAttack]

The point is that you do not put blind trust in things or others that ultimately can effect your body.

You also don't weigh all information you take in, and pretend it's all equal in value. It ain't.

And I as I just reminded Tech, you are forgetting that millions of Americans skipped getting advice from their Doctors entirely.

Some because they are poor, and some by choice. THAT is what we are mocking here: those who did that by choice.


I HATE that the poor in America are subjected to so much white noise and stupidity masquerading as helpful Covid medical advice.

And in that thin line between your thoughts and those we present, is the white noise that we also heard during the early times. People were weighing that intel equally, especially those that knew plenty of people that did have it, in their same demo, and walked away just fine in a week or so.

~ People with comorbidities
~ People with cardio and lung issues
~ People with Parkinsons and other diseases
~ The elderly and sedentary

Yes, I understand what you are saying, completely, but you can also not sit back and judge others who weighed their decision 'by choice' to not get a shot if they were not in a concerned demographic.

And I said, clearly, starting when the Vaxx was avaialable...that if your doctor told you not to get the thing, and you didn't? They are doing EXACTLY what I would advise, I'm 1000% behind those people, just as I"m behind folks who do get the shot on the advice of their doctor. It's why I keep saying to ignore Fauci...and listen to the doctor who knows you have valid reasons NOT to get the shot.

I'm also behind those who couldn't afford a doctor, and were stuck with the idiots on the internet. I HATE that they don't have access to doctors, which is yet another example of how F'ed our country is, with no end in sight.

What I'm vehemently against are the selfish ***holes who are telling people to not trust the Doctor, and to use google. And there are MILLIONS of these idiots. And they are KILLING their fellow Americans with this garbage.

We've been talking past each other.

This discussion is focused on personal health. Candidly the last few hundred pages of this thread are. What’s not being discussed is public health, and how protecting more people - even if their odds of personal severe illness is low - can reduce the risk to those with higher risk. Governments have that obligation.

And the answer isn’t for those with co-morbidities to either suck it up and prepare to die, or hibernate.

[a fan]

This discussion is focused on personal health. Candidly the last few hundred pages of this thread are. What’s not being discussed is public health, and how protecting more people - even if their odds of personal severe illness is low - can reduce the risk to those with higher risk. Governments have that obligation.

And the answer isn’t for those with co-morbidities to either suck it up and prepare to die, or hibernate.

Astute observation. A lack of understanding that personal and public health aren't the same thing has led folks to, among many other issues, not understand what the CDC is doing.

So on a personal level, pulling your masks down while eating dinner back in 2020-1 made zero sense.

But from a mass, public perspective, that makes plenty of sense. Americans had a hard time understanding that.

Most people are trying to save themselves and their family. Governors and the CDC were trying to keep millions safe. It's not the same task.

[tech37]

This discussion is focused on personal health. Candidly the last few hundred pages of this thread are. What’s not being discussed is public health, and how protecting more people - even if their odds of personal severe illness is low - can reduce the risk to those with higher risk. Governments have that obligation.

And the answer isn’t for those with co-morbidities to either suck it up and prepare to die, or hibernate.

Astute observation. A lack of understanding that personal and public health aren't the same thing has led folks to, among many other issues, not understand what the CDC is doing.

So on a personal level, pulling your masks down while eating dinner back in 2020-1 made zero sense.

But from a mass, public perspective, that makes plenty of sense. Americans had a hard time understanding that.

Most people are trying to save themselves and their family. Governors and the CDC were trying to keep millions safe. It's not the same task.

Astute? Of course govt response/oversight is important during a pandemic. In hindsight how'd we do?

Lockdowns... crippled the economy
Mandates... ruined careers/lives, stressing families and added to mental health issues
Closed schools... set kid's education back years, added to mental health issues in children
Emphasis on a vaccine not ready for prime time
No emphasis on personal health and exercise from leaders... closed parks, beaches, gyms, adding to mental/physical health issues
Masking fiasco

Despite all those drastic actions, approx 1,000,000 covid deaths in US (that number is debatable of course).

We'll never know here in US but different policies/responses could have resulted in better outcomes. E.G., Sweden and Dr. Jay Bhattacharya's Great Barrington Declaration (was deemed misinformation and cancelled by the health establishment leaders at time).

[Typical Lax Dad]

This discussion is focused on personal health. Candidly the last few hundred pages of this thread are. What’s not being discussed is public health, and how protecting more people - even if their odds of personal severe illness is low - can reduce the risk to those with higher risk. Governments have that obligation.

And the answer isn’t for those with co-morbidities to either suck it up and prepare to die, or hibernate.

Astute observation. A lack of understanding that personal and public health aren't the same thing has led folks to, among many other issues, not understand what the CDC is doing.

So on a personal level, pulling your masks down while eating dinner back in 2020-1 made zero sense.

But from a mass, public perspective, that makes plenty of sense. Americans had a hard time understanding that.

Most people are trying to save themselves and their family. Governors and the CDC were trying to keep millions safe. It's not the same task.

Astute? Of course govt response/oversight is important during a pandemic. In hindsight how'd we do?

Lockdowns... crippled the economy
Mandates... ruined careers/lives, stressing families and added to mental health issues
Closed schools... set kid's education back years, added to mental health issues in children
Emphasis on a vaccine not ready for prime time
No emphasis on personal health and exercise from leaders... closed parks, beaches, gyms, adding to mental/physical health issues
Masking fiasco

Despite all those drastic actions, approx 1,000,000 covid deaths in US (that number is debatable of course).

We'll never know here in US but different policies/responses could have resulted in better outcomes. E.G., Sweden and Dr. Jay Bhattacharya's Great Barrington Declaration (was deemed misinformation and cancelled by the health establishment leaders at time).

When the rest of the world shut down, they were stupid. Fauci shut them down to…..I remember telling my old colleague that Switzerland was shut down…..he said it would never happen here. I can’t believe how stupid Europeans are…..keeping people away from others doesn’t slowdown the spread of germs.

[youthathletics]

The point is that you do not put blind trust in things or others that ultimately can effect your body.

You also don't weigh all information you take in, and pretend it's all equal in value. It ain't.

And I as I just reminded Tech, you are forgetting that millions of Americans skipped getting advice from their Doctors entirely.

Some because they are poor, and some by choice. THAT is what we are mocking here: those who did that by choice.


I HATE that the poor in America are subjected to so much white noise and stupidity masquerading as helpful Covid medical advice.

And in that thin line between your thoughts and those we present, is the white noise that we also heard during the early times. People were weighing that intel equally, especially those that knew plenty of people that did have it, in their same demo, and walked away just fine in a week or so.

~ People with comorbidities
~ People with cardio and lung issues
~ People with Parkinsons and other diseases
~ The elderly and sedentary

Yes, I understand what you are saying, completely, but you can also not sit back and judge others who weighed their decision 'by choice' to not get a shot if they were not in a concerned demographic.

And I said, clearly, starting when the Vaxx was avaialable...that if your doctor told you not to get the thing, and you didn't? They are doing EXACTLY what I would advise, I'm 1000% behind those people, just as I"m behind folks who do get the shot on the advice of their doctor. It's why I keep saying to ignore Fauci...and listen to the doctor who knows you have valid reasons NOT to get the shot.

I'm also behind those who couldn't afford a doctor, and were stuck with the idiots on the internet. I HATE that they don't have access to doctors, which is yet another example of how F'ed our country is, with no end in sight.

What I'm vehemently against are the selfish ***holes who are telling people to not trust the Doctor, and to use google. And there are MILLIONS of these idiots. And they are KILLING their fellow Americans with this garbage.

We've been talking past each other.

This discussion is focused on personal health. Candidly the last few hundred pages of this thread are. What’s not being discussed is public health, and how protecting more people - even if their odds of personal severe illness is low - can reduce the risk to those with higher risk. Governments have that obligation.

And the answer isn’t for those with co-morbidities to either suck it up and prepare to die, or hibernate.

No argument there, SClax, In fact, the discussion IS out of respect for elders and higher risk individuals. Not a perfect analogy here, but view it like the military......but on an inverse scale; meaning that the majority of those willing and able wanted to go to battle to keep things open and support the country through this tough time. And yes, there are certainly going to be opposing opinions about it. Hear me out, this already took place on a much smaller scale for those tagged 'essential personnel'. Did not miss a day during the duration of lockdowns.

As one of those in that class, was it 'fair' that they considered and mandated us to be at work. Not to mention, of that class of people, during the duration there is not stat to validate this, but the in my network, not one person died...many were sick and returned a week or two later after all the testing.

So the argument was not, screw the old people and let them fend them for themselves, it was 'hey we got you', you sit tight and we'll keep this place running as best we can. If not mistaken, your son is in law enforcement, I would reason to guess he too was immersed in this daily. It'd be interesting to hear if he has the same mindset.

[tech37]

Blindly trusting your Dr is NOT always the best option. YOU must be your own advocate.

Co worker’s wife was almost paralyzed if she listened to her doctor after birth. Second opinion said, thank Heaven for the nurse on staff that recommended a second opinion.

My mom, just this week, was told she needed shots to treat Osteoporosis, shots that have negative side effects that impact her. Dr still recommended them. Mom went home, studied Radiologist reading and low and behold, the Radiologist read her bone scan wrong. And the kicker…..he didn’t admit it and claimed the test results were not submitted to him accurately….her Dr. said he was full of crap and screwed up. Her Dr. apologized multiple times.

Yep, and not to pick on a fan too much but he's being binary again. He can't understand that you can actually listen to your personal doctor AND consider other information you hear and read at the same time. It's called being informed.

You're not picking on me....you're simply not paying attention to what I just wrote. Here it is again: enlarged, and bolded to make it even easier.

I've said the same thing from the word go. Long before this idiocy of pretending that you can "google your healthcare" became hip and edgy and cool.

Check with your personal doctor. You know: the guy/gal with the CV and training that reads these JAMA article, and actually understands what they mean. They guy/gal I know doggone well you pay thousands of dollars a year to get their medical advice.

Check with them. Ignore the internet. Ignore the FDA. Ignore the CDC. Work with your doctor, who knows you and your history. Ask questions until you're blue in the face. Questions are good.

That's it. And if you're actually doing that, Tech? You're doing the exact same thing I am, and you're just making pointless noise here about your meta-understanding of medical issues. And you're welcome to do that. Knock yourself out.

That clearer now? It's not binary-----use your doctor answer all your questions. Get a third opinion from a doctor. It's why I reacted to your mocking of the "medical establishment". You are implying that people shouldn't listen to their doctors, whether you know it or not.
Ridiculous spin by you as usual. I never implied anything of the kind and you know damn well. What I mock is those who don't allow (or condemn) any info or ideas presented outside of the church of the medical establishment and/or Big Pharma.

And if you're honest about it and admit, I've always been for more info, not less. So of course listen to your doctor and of course get second opinions, and if you want, all the while consider other info/ideas that could add to your personal health education.

And, get into some sort of reasonable shape!

Largely, we're talking past each other, and have lost where this conversation started.
No we're not, you're talking past yourself.

When I see this attitude? I don't believe one word they say, because they're not here for an honest accounting, and honest evaluation, or giving people honest choices. They just want to throw stones, and/or get paid.
Who's "they"? Of course there are bad actors (always are) and those people will be exposed/marginalized. Discretion is always a good idea anytime one uses the internet, right? And I don't believe your claim that millions died because they got their medical advice from the internet. Some sure, millions?