Johns Hopkins 2024

[OCanada]

And is one of them someone who is near and not always dear to lax fans for his commentary?

That would be the first

[Sagittarius A*]

And is one of them someone who is near and not always dear to lax fans for his commentary?

That would be the first

My understanding is that he was given a full ride, but he had very special and unfortunate circumstances.

[jhu06]

And is one of them someone who is near and not always dear to lax fans for his commentary?

That would be the first

now do the ones who weren't given scholarships but became stars.

[nyjay]

The math just not support it. The are ~50 players on a roster. There are 12.6 scholarships available. Call that a quarter scholarship for every player. That isn’t happening, because of the portal. You have to give your stars more. Coaches only have 2-3 scholarships for a recruiting class. Top 10 kid may get a full ride or close to it, but that is about it

My guess is that the math works something like this (assuming a 50 man roster and a fully funded program):

1. The bottom 15-20 guys on the roster get nothing in terms of scholarship money. I'd guess some of those guys were less heavily recruited and are happy enough with the leg-up in admissions. And at places like Hop, I'm guessing some guys who get zero may actually be pretty highly recruited, but whose parent's financial situation allows them to be pretty much fully funded with need based aid (allowing for the conservation of scholarship money for guys highly recruited guys who don't qualify for need based aid).
2. The top 3-5 guys are probably on 100%. So around one guy per class. Which would be your top 10 kind of guys at the big programs. This does leave me wondering how the Dukes/UVas with multiple top 10 guys each year do it. Might be much more of a haves and have nots situation where scholarships moneys don't make it much past the 20th guy on the roster.
3. That leaves 25-30 guys to split between 7.6 and 9.6 scholarships, or an average of something like 25%-35% per guy. Among those guys, there are like a few north of 50% and some around 10%.

[OCanada]

Hopkins has only had two recipients of full ride athletic schollies since D-1.

[coda]

The math just not support it. The are ~50 players on a roster. There are 12.6 scholarships available. Call that a quarter scholarship for every player. That isn’t happening, because of the portal. You have to give your stars more. Coaches only have 2-3 scholarships for a recruiting class. Top 10 kid may get a full ride or close to it, but that is about it

My guess is that the math works something like this (assuming a 50 man roster and a fully funded program):

1. The bottom 15-20 guys on the roster get nothing in terms of scholarship money. I'd guess some of those guys were less heavily recruited and are happy enough with the leg-up in admissions. And at places like Hop, I'm guessing some guys who get zero may actually be pretty highly recruited, but whose parent's financial situation allows them to be pretty much fully funded with need based aid (allowing for the conservation of scholarship money for guys highly recruited guys who don't qualify for need based aid).
2. The top 3-5 guys are probably on 100%. So around one guy per class. Which would be your top 10 kind of guys at the big programs. This does leave me wondering how the Dukes/UVas with multiple top 10 guys each year do it. Might be much more of a haves and have nots situation where scholarships moneys don't make it much past the 20th guy on the roster.
3. That leaves 25-30 guys to split between 7.6 and 9.6 scholarships, or an average of something like 25%-35% per guy. Among those guys, there are like a few north of 50% and some around 10%.

The only issue with #2 is that your top 3-5 guys are likely upper classmen and don’t forget the portal. Top portal kids will have a lot of suitors, that is going to mean larger scholarship offers. It also means you have reward players that perform for you. That said there are lot of ways to make the numbers work, but not a lot of kids will get a full ride as a freshmen

[nyjay]

The only issue with #2 is that your top 3-5 guys are likely upper classmen and don’t forget the portal. Top portal kids will have a lot of suitors, that is going to mean larger scholarship offers. It also means you have reward players that perform for you. That said there are lot of ways to make the numbers work, but not a lot of kids will get a full ride as a freshmen

don't forget that you have to actually get kids in the door. top recruits have a lot of leverage and can play multiple programs off one another. and so incoming freshman are probably disproportionately represented among those with good scholarship packages.

[OCanada]

My thought is too much attention is being placed on dollars and not enough on the institution, coach, geography, career and inertia.

[coda]

My thought is too much attention is being placed on dollars and not enough on the institution, coach, geography, career and inertia.

Just my belief, but I don’t think that is the case. I think a lot of kids want tradition (ACC/Maryland to these kids). They take less to go there. Talking recruits

[MDlaxfan76]

Hopkins has only had two recipients of full ride athletic schollies since D-1.

If that's accurate, then some of these other comments are way off as they speculate 3-5 full rides in any given year.

I don't know what's accurate and what is not in the distribution at any given school, now or in the past, but it seems to me that it's unlikely that Hopkins is currently at any disadvantage in the recruiting process re $, relative to peer Big 10, ACC, Ivy, whatever.

Each has their unique selling points, but on the $ question, Hopkins is really unparalleled at present. Non-athletic financial aid comparable with Ivies and athletic aid equal to anyone. That these can now be layered is a bit crazy to me, but that's apparently the reality as well...so, perhaps it's possible that the "top 3-5" are indeed receiving effectively 100%, just not all out of the athletic 12.6 ?

[nyjay]

Hopkins has only had two recipients of full ride athletic schollies since D-1.

What does that even mean? The men's program has been D-1 forever. You have data going back to the '70s? Did a lot of people get 90%? 80%? 70%? The idea that everyone is getting roughly the same amount strikes me as total nonsense. Some guys get a lot. Some guys get something. A lot of guys get nothing. At all of the top programs.

Again, from the horse's mouth, Lars Tiffany on the IL podcast "you're not getting the top guy in the class for 30%".

[MDlaxfan76]

Hopkins has only had two recipients of full ride athletic schollies since D-1.

What does that even mean? The men's program has been D-1 forever. You have data going back to the '70s? Did a lot of people get 90%? 80%? 70%? The idea that everyone is getting roughly the same amount strikes me as total nonsense. Some guys get a lot. Some guys get something. A lot of guys get nothing. At all of the top programs.

Again, from the horse's mouth, Lars Tiffany on the IL podcast "you're not getting the top guy in the class for 30%".

I think D1 was created in 1973?

So, while not "forever", your point that it goes back at least that far stands.

I was trying to do a google search on when rules were instituted providing a cap on how many scholarships could be granted by a (D1) team in lacrosse, but I haven't found it...anyone know and have a reference? Presumably there were no restrictions in the USILA era ?

It's times like these (and many others) that I miss having my Pop to ask a quick question!
Burgers and dogs and baked beans tonight would have been a good time to do so.

[51percentcorn]

Hopkins has only had two recipients of full ride athletic schollies since D-1.

What does that even mean? The men's program has been D-1 forever. You have data going back to the '70s? Did a lot of people get 90%? 80%? 70%? The idea that everyone is getting roughly the same amount strikes me as total nonsense. Some guys get a lot. Some guys get something. A lot of guys get nothing. At all of the top programs.

Again, from the horse's mouth, Lars Tiffany on the IL podcast "you're not getting the top guy in the class for 30%".

Well, you only have to go back a page or two and see that O'C and I do not always agree on things but on this one I will at least say this has been part of Hopkins lore - only a couple of players have ever received 100% of allowable annual charges (tutition/room and board etc.) through athletic scholarship. Whether it's really really true or not - I do not know - never worked in the financial aid department at Hopkins so I can't prove a thing but there are many that believe it. The lore includes the aforementioned announcer - not sure why we can't say Quint - we do not have to discuss any circumstances but he and Rabil (maybe? Don't swear me in on that one) are the two names I have heard. Of course different players receive different amounts and I would think it changes as the player perhaps becomes more valuable to the team. It would be interesting to know how the current administration applies the 12.6 and now the need formulas etc but that's probably not coming out on the Peter Milliman "How Hopkins Approaches Recruiting" podcast - If such a thing were to ever exist.

[OCanada]

I think it is permissable go swear on it. Generally 1/4 was the standard at Hopkins but that is a few years old now. 30% is not much of a difference. I don’t know if the MB gift and need based financial aid it provides has made a difference.

I remember years ago the sons of a former Hopkins player went to NC. Their dad said he could not justify paying more than 200k more for them to go to Hopkins.

In the 90s the grandson of a legendary player went to ND for a similar reason

[coda]

I think it is permissable go swear on it. Generally 1/4 was the standard at Hopkins but that is a few years old now. 30% is not much of a difference. I don’t know if the MB gift and need based financial aid it provides has made a difference.

I remember years ago the sons of a former Hopkins player went to NC. Their dad said he could not justify paying more than 200k more for them to go to Hopkins.

In the 90s the grandson of a legendary player went to ND for a similar reason

I think 20-30% is more the standard for recruits. There will be exceptions, but not a lot of full rides. That number can/should rise, as your contribution rises. I do think we are in a different world now with the portal. You have an All-Big 10 player getting a 1/4 scholarship, that is going to invite the vultures. Not only do you have to recruit HS kids, but you also have to recruit your own kids. Not to mention leave an allocation for the portal kids that show up. Based on the latest rumors the number maybe 3. Lot of talk your new goalie got a full ride

[nyjay]

Look, if everyone at Hop is getting 25%, it really shouldn't be surprising that we're not getting "top ten" recruits because other schools are offering those guys more than 25%. And if we're giving 25% to the 12th guy in a recruiting class, the staff is just dumb (which they're not). I get the "lore", but there's got to be some heavy duty semantics going on there to make that statement "true". Epstein (our last #1 recruit), for example, didn't need a 100% "athletic scholarship", as, if I recall correctly, one of his parents was employed by the university. Some of our other recent top recruits probably qualified for substantial need based aid and thus didn't need a ton of "athletic" scholarship money either, but I'm also pretty sure they're not paying a ton out of pocket.

[OCanada]

I do not think i, or anyone, said everyone was getting 25% at Hopkins just to be clear. I was reacting go the 30% comment about VA by their coach.

Regardless team’s need a core fo build on. Not everyone needs or requires a scholie. Some qualify for aid from a restricted fund. One player i remember qualified for the Presidential Scholarship and rightfully so. Syracuse has a special approach to Indians. Some public universities have had out of state students qualify as instate students.

[Sagittarius A*]

I do not think i, or anyone, said everyone was getting 25% at Hopkins just to be clear. I was reacting go the 30% comment about VA by their coach.

Regardless team’s need a core fo build on. Not everyone needs or requires a scholie. Some qualify for aid from a restricted fund. One player i remember qualified for the Presidential Scholarship and rightfully so. Syracuse has a special approach to Indians. Some public universities have had out of state students qualify as instate students.

And used other below the board tactics. (My Bold)

[jhu06]

I do not think i, or anyone, said everyone was getting 25% at Hopkins just to be clear. I was reacting go the 30% comment about VA by their coach.

Regardless team’s need a core fo build on. Not everyone needs or requires a scholie. Some qualify for aid from a restricted fund. One player i remember qualified for the Presidential Scholarship and rightfully so. Syracuse has a special approach to Indians. Some public universities have had out of state students qualify as instate students.

And used other below the board tactics. (My Bold)

Or you recruit well enough so that you bring in kids who outperform whatever $ they're getting. There have to have been some good values over the years. Durkin was originally I think a Lehigh guy not one of the IL cover boys and went on to have a stellar career.

[Sagittarius A*]

Or you recruit well enough so that you bring in kids who outperform whatever $ they're getting. There have to have been some good values over the years. Durkin was originally I think a Lehigh guy not one of the IL cover boys and went on to have a stellar career.

You can add Ryan Brown and John Crawley to that list together with Mr. Degnon.
Then consider all the #1 recruits we had that never panned out and it isn't hard to get to PM's "no consideration at all" perspective on IL rankings.
Maybe they need to change their algorithms or something.