York 2024

[Asgot]

He’s just kicking the hornet’s nest as usual. But it sounds an awful lot like preemptive excuses for 2024 loses to CNU, York, Lynchburg and any other team he forgot to plug sporting 5th years that the Generals may face. Not a good look.

I would put all three of those teams in the same pool. No excuses, beat the teams in front of you. Just like W&L did last year, new year, new teams.

W&L was 50% at “beating the teams in front of them” vs the referenced programs last year, is that good? Such an odd flex, again jabbing about W&L winning last year, after retreating to “I’m talking about this year” if someone else references history for context in any capacity.

“York’s pretty avg, fringe top ten, propped up by 5ths, won’t be a pre season top 20” etc. Yet here you are gloating as though beating York was your NC. Looks like 7 straight losses over 15 years gave you a complex…

2-1 = 50%? Not sure that checks out.
…

4 games played vs the opponents being discussed in 2023. Their record was 2-2= 50%.

….
I feel like I have to mention this everytime, I don’t have an axe to grind with York. IT IS THE MOST ACTIVE TOPIC ON THE FORUM. The minute anyone has a contradictory opinion that York isn’t a top ten team or hasn’t recruited at the level all of the dads on here think they get real defensive…

I’d say these teams are very equal. In fact how anybody could say anything other than games between these three teams would be a coin toss would be a mystery to me.

If you have to mention that you don’t have an axe to grind “every time” then perhaps every time you come across as having an axe to grind. *shrugs*

Regarding defensive responses, I recall a time recently where someone posted, contrary to all the positivity on the W&L thread, about their losses due to graduation. You responded quickly in disagreement. Is it not being defensive, if you are the one doing it? Perhaps it is YOU who people not allowed to disagree with? Just food for thought.

Didn’t know we were discussing CNU. CNU is better than all of the teams mentioned.

I believe I corrected that poster and mentioned that some of players he said were losses, were sophomores. I also mentioned that graduating 30% of your points is a generally low amount to graduate. And returning 9/14 starters is generally thought of as being good. I also corrected the poster who mentioned that Pokorny was the top attackman and was covered by the top pole, that was incorrect, Hillis Burns was the top attackman and always drew the opponents top defender in 2023. Against Gettysburg Burns was injured and Pokorny still drew the second defender, Joey Allen drew Puckhaber.

I also in the same post mentioned that the biggest concerns for W&L were goalie and FO which were not mentioned. I mentioned that W&L was extremely poor in goal until late in the year. After they switched to Seeds they found more success and ended the year at 13-2, avenging 2 of their losses. Given that information I’m sure W&L is far more worried about finding a competent goalie then replacing 1 offensive starter, considering they return 5/6 offensive starters from an offense that AVG 17.5gpg, was second in the nation in assists (Pokorny led the team), and was top ten in every single offensive category. I also mentioned that FOs were a concern and that although they return the 1st team all-ODAC FO man and HM all-American at FO, that he struggled against anybody who was considered good and was a huge weak link against Salisbury. So I feel like pointing out far greater concerns isn’t being defensive.

When is the last time that CNU beat York? They may have more talent but when they meet on the field they do not fair as well. Maybe it is simply the difference in coaching.

[DeepPocket]

Didn’t know we were discussing CNU. CNU is better than all of the teams mentioned.

I believe I corrected that poster and mentioned that some of players he said were losses, were sophomores. I also mentioned that graduating 30% of your points is a generally low amount to graduate. And returning 9/14 starters is generally thought of as being good. I also corrected the poster who mentioned that Pokorny was the top attackman and was covered by the top pole, that was incorrect, Hillis Burns was the top attackman and always drew the opponents top defender in 2023. Against Gettysburg Burns was injured and Pokorny still drew the second defender, Joey Allen drew Puckhaber.

I also in the same post mentioned that the biggest concerns for W&L were goalie and FO which were not mentioned. I mentioned that W&L was extremely poor in goal until late in the year. After they switched to Seeds they found more success and ended the year at 13-2, avenging 2 of their losses. Given that information I’m sure W&L is far more worried about finding a competent goalie then replacing 1 offensive starter, considering they return 5/6 offensive starters from an offense that AVG 17.5gpg, was second in the nation in assists (Pokorny led the team), and was top ten in every single offensive category. I also mentioned that FOs were a concern and that although they return the 1st team all-ODAC FO man and HM all-American at FO, that he struggled against anybody who was considered good and was a huge weak link against Salisbury. So I feel like pointing out far greater concerns isn’t being defensive.

Whoa. If you weren’t being defensive before, you sure sound it now. Lol. See how it works.

And not to get side tracked, but fact that CNU was spelled out right in the posts was your first clue, and the only person who said they would group them together was you (see the above quotes).

Let’s not be silly, your ability to disagree with anyone or anything doesn’t exempt you from anyone’s retorts.

You don’t regularly take opportunity to try to point out what you view as issues with any other team. But you do it here because this is an active forum thread, yet can’t handle the predictable response? Odd.

It is what it is. Disagree away, but realize the partial opinions of York “dads,” aren’t any less than or different from the partial opinions of W&L “former assistant coaches” like you.

[InsiderRoll]

He’s just kicking the hornet’s nest as usual. But it sounds an awful lot like preemptive excuses for 2024 loses to CNU, York, Lynchburg and any other team he forgot to plug sporting 5th years that the Generals may face. Not a good look.

I would put all three of those teams in the same pool. No excuses, beat the teams in front of you. Just like W&L did last year, new year, new teams.

W&L was 50% at “beating the teams in front of them” vs the referenced programs last year, is that good? Such an odd flex, again jabbing about W&L winning last year, after retreating to “I’m talking about this year” if someone else references history for context in any capacity.

“York’s pretty avg, fringe top ten, propped up by 5ths, won’t be a pre season top 20” etc. Yet here you are gloating as though beating York was your NC. Looks like 7 straight losses over 15 years gave you a complex…

2-1 = 50%? Not sure that checks out.
…

4 games played vs the opponents being discussed in 2023. Their record was 2-2= 50%.

….
I feel like I have to mention this everytime, I don’t have an axe to grind with York. IT IS THE MOST ACTIVE TOPIC ON THE FORUM. The minute anyone has a contradictory opinion that York isn’t a top ten team or hasn’t recruited at the level all of the dads on here think they get real defensive…

I’d say these teams are very equal. In fact how anybody could say anything other than games between these three teams would be a coin toss would be a mystery to me.

If you have to mention that you don’t have an axe to grind “every time” then perhaps every time you come across as having an axe to grind. *shrugs*

Regarding defensive responses, I recall a time recently where someone posted, contrary to all the positivity on the W&L thread, about their losses due to graduation. You responded quickly in disagreement. Is it not being defensive, if you are the one doing it? Perhaps it is YOU who people not allowed to disagree with? Just food for thought.

Didn’t know we were discussing CNU. CNU is better than all of the teams mentioned.

I believe I corrected that poster and mentioned that some of players he said were losses, were sophomores. I also mentioned that graduating 30% of your points is a generally low amount to graduate. And returning 9/14 starters is generally thought of as being good. I also corrected the poster who mentioned that Pokorny was the top attackman and was covered by the top pole, that was incorrect, Hillis Burns was the top attackman and always drew the opponents top defender in 2023. Against Gettysburg Burns was injured and Pokorny still drew the second defender, Joey Allen drew Puckhaber.

I also in the same post mentioned that the biggest concerns for W&L were goalie and FO which were not mentioned. I mentioned that W&L was extremely poor in goal until late in the year. After they switched to Seeds they found more success and ended the year at 13-2, avenging 2 of their losses. Given that information I’m sure W&L is far more worried about finding a competent goalie then replacing 1 offensive starter, considering they return 5/6 offensive starters from an offense that AVG 17.5gpg, was second in the nation in assists (Pokorny led the team), and was top ten in every single offensive category. I also mentioned that FOs were a concern and that although they return the 1st team all-ODAC FO man and HM all-American at FO, that he struggled against anybody who was considered good and was a huge weak link against Salisbury. So I feel like pointing out far greater concerns isn’t being defensive.

When is the last time that CNU beat York? They may have more talent but when they meet on the field they do not fair as well. Maybe it is simply the difference in coaching.

York has only played them once since COVID, that York team was excellent and had a number of outstanding graduate players. I’d say CNU really hasn’t been what they are until the last 4 years. And it’s been largely the same group for the last 4 years and they keep coming back for 5th and 6th years. In fact that the CNU team that York beat in 2022 still has quite a few of its feature pieces.

Perhaps York is better coached, I’ve only ever been complimentary of the York staff and I’ve on a number of occasions mentioned the respect I have for Childs for building this program from complete irrelevance to a national mainstay.

I think this all makes what my original point is… that those best situated to take advantage of the NCAA frivolous eligibility expansion are the ones having the most success. In 2022 York was able to keep Kennedy, Michael, and Wolf around and they had a banner year for the program.

Lastly, you’re right York has a far better 10 year history against CNU and W&L, but I don’t care about any of that. What matters is the current outlook. The players that are currently rostered and playing. The factually correct statistics.

And by the numbers York would not look like much with out their 5th years… which is all I said. Here’s the evidence vs a program like W&L…which as many of you have pointed out York is vastly better than over the last 10 years.

W&L (No 5th year players)
Returning AAs: 4
Returning Starters: 9/14
Returning Points: 66.3%

York (with 5th Years)
Returning AAs: 3
Returning Starters: 8/14
Returning Points: 58.8%

York (without 5th years)
Returning AAs: 0
Returning Starters: 3/14
Returning Points: 31%

York is not the only team like this… however I’m not about to create a Lynchburg thread just to say this. But this is what I meant by “proped up by their grad players”.

[Asgot]

There is no question that CNU is loaded this year but they were loaded in 2022 and 2023. Saw them in person on several occasions and thought they were the best team in the country. What is going to be the excuse when they don’t win this year?

[InsiderRoll]

There is no question that CNU is loaded this year but they were loaded in 2022 and 2023. Saw them in person on several occasions and thought they were the best team in the country. What is going to be the excuse when they don’t win this year?

This is certainly their year. They will lose A TON in 2025. I’d say they are so talented that a monkey could coach them to at least the quarterfinals. I’d say a championship weekend appearance would still be a noteworthy accomplishment even if they ultimately fell.

[DeepPocket]

So, if I follow correctly, it is a fact that York was a top 10 team before COVID added eligibility, and it is your position, based on statistics affected by the added eligibility, that hypothetically they wouldn’t be a top 10 team now if you were able to remove COVID added eligibility. But also we all agree that they will be fine long term.

Ok, I think I’m all caught up.

The eligibility is here. They have those players. I guess I actually don’t understand the point of the conversation you started, unless the whole point was to argue about a hypothetical… hypothetically if they didn’t have 5th-6ths for the last 2 years, other players would have accolades from their hypothetical performances, just like the fantastic undergrads that carried them class after class before COVID, no? Absolutely silly conversation…

[InsiderRoll]

So, if I follow correctly, it is a fact that York was a top 10 team before COVID added eligibility, and it is your position, based on statistics affected by the added eligibility, that hypothetically they wouldn’t be a top 10 team now if you were able to remove COVID added eligibility. But also we all agree that they will be fine long term.

Ok, I think I’m all caught up.

The eligibility is here. They have those players. I guess I actually don’t understand the point of the conversation you started, unless the whole point was to argue about a hypothetical… hypothetically if they didn’t have 5th-6ths for the last 2 years, other players would have accolades from their hypothetical performances, just like the fantastic undergrads that carried them class after class before COVID, no? Absolutely silly conversation…

Didn’t a handful of those “fantastic undergrads” transfer? Mayer, Burdick, Kazella? Aren’t these the guys that everyone on here was raving about for the last 2 years? Yes if those guys returned then I’d say they looked like sure fire top 10 team.

So if they had no undergrad transfers out + the grad players…

Starters: 10/14
Points returning: 88%!!!! (absurd amount of production to return)
All Americans returning: 4

Easily a preseason top 10 team. I know the COVID rules exist. I know that this is a hypothetical, but the extra eligibility is masking the exodus of talented undergrad transfers this year And what could of been a very very good York team in 2024, is now on paper looking more like a solid 10-20 level team. I believe I also said they may feel more of an impact in 2025 from those undergrad transfers.

[DeepPocket]

So, if I follow correctly, it is a fact that York was a top 10 team before COVID added eligibility, and it is your position, based on statistics affected by the added eligibility, that hypothetically they wouldn’t be a top 10 team now if you were able to remove COVID added eligibility. But also we all agree that they will be fine long term.

Ok, I think I’m all caught up.

The eligibility is here. They have those players. I guess I actually don’t understand the point of the conversation you started, unless the whole point was to argue about a hypothetical… hypothetically if they didn’t have 5th-6ths for the last 2 years, other players would have accolades from their hypothetical performances, just like the fantastic undergrads that carried them class after class before COVID, no? Absolutely silly conversation…

Didn’t a handful of those “fantastic undergrads” transfer? Mayer, Burdick, Kazella? Aren’t these the guys that everyone on here was raving about for the last 2 years? Yes if those guys returned then I’d say they looked like sure fire top 10 team.

So if they had no undergrad transfers out + the grad players…

Starters: 10/14
Points returning: 88%!!!! (absurd amount of production to return)
All Americans returning: 4

Easily a preseason top 10 team. I know the COVID rules exist. I know that this is a hypothetical, but the extra eligibility is masking the exodus of talented undergrad transfers this year And what could of been a very very good York team in 2024, is now on paper looking more like a solid 10-20 level team. I believe I also said they may feel more of an impact in 2025 from those undergrad transfers.

I think it’s logical to understand that I was talking about other rostered players, who would be playing in the place of those grads that you keep subtracting for nonsensical side by side comparisons, not athletes who actually played (like Burbank and Kazella, who earned none of the national accolades you’re using for talent reference)

I respectfully disagree about all but Mayer. Losing him is a hit, and they will have to restructure their offense. And for the record, I see that as a positive. “Mayer ball” was not effective vs the top shutdown men. As far as the other players, there are players like them on the bench, and in the 2023 and 2024 classes. You clearly don’t know that, but I’m thinking you’re going to find out.

On “raving about them for 2 years,” would it not be like people raving about Pokorny’s talent and his pedigree, but now down-playing his loss? Some people play UP the positive and down the negative, and then some people actually know more about the incoming and depth players than you think.

Now as you go to do the extensive stats work up to show me something about Burbank and Kazella, complete with hypothetical scenarios, realize before you press submit that not one person is going to say “WOW, I didn’t see it your way, but now that you put it that way, I think you’re right!” You’re wasting your breath, unless the goal was to stir the pot

[InsiderRoll]

I guess we’ll see this spring.

[Asgot]

So, if I follow correctly, it is a fact that York was a top 10 team before COVID added eligibility, and it is your position, based on statistics affected by the added eligibility, that hypothetically they wouldn’t be a top 10 team now if you were able to remove COVID added eligibility. But also we all agree that they will be fine long term.

Ok, I think I’m all caught up.

The eligibility is here. They have those players. I guess I actually don’t understand the point of the conversation you started, unless the whole point was to argue about a hypothetical… hypothetically if they didn’t have 5th-6ths for the last 2 years, other players would have accolades from their hypothetical performances, just like the fantastic undergrads that carried them class after class before COVID, no? Absolutely silly conversation…

Didn’t a handful of those “fantastic undergrads” transfer? Mayer, Burdick, Kazella? Aren’t these the guys that everyone on here was raving about for the last 2 years? Yes if those guys returned then I’d say they looked like sure fire top 10 team.

So if they had no undergrad transfers out + the grad players…

Starters: 10/14
Points returning: 88%!!!! (absurd amount of production to return)
All Americans returning: 4

Easily a preseason top 10 team. I know the COVID rules exist. I know that this is a hypothetical, but the extra eligibility is masking the exodus of talented undergrad transfers this year And what could of been a very very good York team in 2024, is now on paper looking more like a solid 10-20 level team. I believe I also said they may feel more of an impact in 2025 from those undergrad transfers.

Actually no Burbank and Kazella were both first year players last year, they were undersized and struggle to beat a pole match up. This is why I do not believe that their points will be difficult to replace. They have a very solid grad transfer to replace some of those points. I would have to imagine that you watch the York vs W&L game. How did Kazella and Burbank do?

[Asgot]

Fall ball starts next week I would assume we will begin to get some real answers then. Lots of good options on both ends of the field

[Polegoal]

Is the first day of fall ball tomorrow? Any good story lines about this years team?

They have to find some offensive replacements and maybe a pole or two.

Fogo seems solid, is the goalie position locked down or is that a battle as well?

[TopCheddar]

Goalie position is locked. Definitely going to be #0.

[Laxattackjack]

Goalie position is locked. Definitely going to be #0.

Bold prediction. What do you have for the other spots?

[Polegoal]

Goalie position is locked. Definitely going to be #0.

I hope so as it seemed like a pretty shaky spot last year. Do you think that the coaching staff has a shorter leash this year after maybe playing the senior a little too long last year

[RE6ULATOR]

I guess we’ll see this spring.

Love seeing a “new poster.”

[Asgot]

After the first few days of practice, I am hearing good things about Wilhelm and the offense. Sounds like Keough is fitting in well at the midfield and that we have freshman offensive players who have position flexibility which did not have as much last year.

[DeepPocket]

After the first few days of practice, I am hearing good things about Wilhelm and the offense. Sounds like Keough is fitting in well at the midfield and that we have freshman offensive players who have position flexibility which did not have as much last year.

I’m hearing good things on some of the freshmen players too. Can’t wait to see them in action at the alumni game.

2024 class is filing in as well. Strong looking group.

[TopCheddar]

Goalie position is locked. Definitely going to be #0.

Bold prediction. What do you have for the other spots?

I don't think it's that bold honestly. Keller started to heat up as the season went on after filling in for Callinan. I saw some amazing games out of #0 last season: Stevenson (Both games), Cabrini, Tufts. Senior year is going to light a bigger fire under him. If not, #8 Apel is the next guy up.

Locked in for other spots, I think obviously some of the main guys from last year.
#23 is the best Fogo in the country, #43 Blackmon is a true threat to other teams. #35 Biava gets better and wiser every game, he will be THE GUY his senior year for lock down. His checks and 1v1 game has unreal All-American potential. #20 Mentzer, #19 Shields, and #21 Sock is a great lineup of D middies. Shields and Sock thankfully are only juniors. Harnick #28 is a lock at right attack. I honestly think the first middie line will be #7, Keough (Transfer), and then that final lefty spot will be a competition. #22 McCarver and #44 Fisher are the top for that spot.

Attack is where it gets interesting. Going to be a wayyyyyyy younger offense. Harnick and two guys who want to play and will earn their spot during fallball. We will see who gets the start at the Alumni game, that being said: this means nothing till spring. You have to play consistent to get those minutes in the spring.

I am also truly curious what the wing play will look like. The LSM spot is open. Big shoes to fill. Any thoughts?

[Laxguy703]

Goalie position is locked. Definitely going to be #0.

Bold prediction. What do you have for the other spots?

I don't think it's that bold honestly. Keller started to heat up as the season went on after filling in for Callinan. I saw some amazing games out of #0 last season: Stevenson (Both games), Cabrini, Tufts. Senior year is going to light a bigger fire under him. If not, #8 Apel is the next guy up.

No disrespect to #0 but he went 33% against Tufts and had 11 saves against Stevenson.. sure he’s a good goalie but in what world does that classify as “amazing”