Johns Hopkins 2024

[Sagittarius A*]

Yep, good point about going from top ssdm to a reserve type. Though I guess I’d say being the best ssdm for SU last year isn’t saying much. Surprised they didn’t go after that position harder in the portal but that’s a conversation for a different thread.

There was talk that Petro didn’t like his SSDMs to push transition. Not sure the validity of that but it’s not too hard to believe. Lots of SU fans wanted him to get more offensive reps or push more in transition. Perhaps he can be a sort of designated transition player who can get up and down the field for Hopkins. Best of luck to him.

The Jays seriously push transition these days. It's their MO now. Aviles could potentially thrive in this defense.

[MDlaxfan76]

It’s not just Hopkins kids that Shay goes after

Correct, though probably feels that way to some Hop fans.

I think part of this is that Dave Pietramala used to complain that Hopkins was losing recruits to Ivies as part of his justification for early recruiting...and in response to ER, Ivies like Yale openly decided to "poach" ER commits made prior to when Ivies could present an academic record to their Admissions dept; they felt they had the moral high ground in doing so...and ER just kept going earlier and earlier...

This led to a pattern of de-committing and recommitting to lose the former social stigma against such. Remember those discussions? So, we now see this be rampant and expected, part of all schools' equation on what they need to do. And then transfers became no longer socially stigmatized...so we see rampant movement of players applauded at their new schools...and this process is now formalized as just dandy...

Personally, I thought Dave made a huge mistake in making those complaints and in his response. Instead, I thought he was in a position to leverage Hopkins' excellent academics and tremendous lax legacy to win way more than his share of top recruits without ER...and he could have been a major voice in getting the NCAA to change the rules rather than years later having the women coaches get it done. Same for Starsia IMO.

Lots of folks disagreed with that view and probably many still do.

[OCanada]

Partially agree. Of course look what has happened to sports now

I was at a HS game being scouted by several top coaches. I asked Desko about player X and where he thought he would go thinking Hopkins had a shot. He replied everyone has known since he was a soph where he was going. That was triggering. I then asked Dave where he thought X would go. Got essentially the same answer. Then there was the angle Bill was working at Princeton.

[MDlaxfan76]

Partially agree. Of course look what has happened to sports now

I was at a HS game being scouted by several top coaches. I asked Desko about player X and where he thought he would go thinking Hopkins had a shot. He replied everyone has known since he was a soph where he was going. That was triggering. I then asked Dave where he thought X would go. Got essentially the same answer. Then there was the angle Bill was working at Princeton.

That's a bit cryptic. Why was it "triggering"?

Where was the kid going? To his dad's alma mater?
Simply assumed?

Or do you mean that this was in the days of ER and coaches were already getting commitments from sophomores, whether announced or not?
The first announced sophomore commitment I think was winter of 2010 for a 2012 StP kid to UNC, ended up transferring to Towson.
UNC, UVA, and Hop took turns getting the earlier, ever earlier, commits over a bunch of years, all the way into 8th grade. Earliest and most early commits each year...

What was the "angle" that Tierney was "working"?
PU is an attractive school choice? and we can get you in if your scores aren't too bad?
They were certainly aggressive during his tenure with support from Admissions and AD.

Or was there some other "angle"?

[Sagittarius A*]

What was the "angle" that Tierney was "working"?
PU is an attractive school choice? and we can get you in if your scores aren't too bad?
They were certainly aggressive during his tenure with support from Admissions and AD.

Or was there some other "angle"?

That's a good question. Tierney seemed to have a monopoly on recruits in the 90's. I've always wondered what game they were playing. Either someone complained or the playing field got leveled because after that era he couldn't dominate anymore. I think part of the reason he moved to Denver was that he realized he couldn't win championships at PU anymore.

[OCanada]

Someone left the administration so the playing field changed

Denver had a lot to offer opportunity, admission standards, opportunities for family etc

[The Orfling]

Not trying to hijack the (legendary) Hop thread with Ivy-recruiting talk, but I wanted to respond to the more recent post about the Yale HC and decommitments.

In the early recruiting era, during which the Ivies could not participate in the early commitments, and the early recruiting "process" was non-binding commitments, I think it was not only fair but a matter of competitive necessity for the Ivies to stay in contact with early recruits and flip recruits who, later in their careers, had the interest/grades/talent to go Ivy.

In the current "free agency" era of lacrosse with the transfer portal, there are some parallels to the early recruiting era in the sense that the league as a whole is less able to take advantage of transfers (no grad transfers at any Ivy, and some schools -- Princeton, Harvard, Dartmouth come to mind -- which also don't bring on board undergrad transfers). In this high mobility era of lacrosse, with the post-matriculation transfer game not something the Ivy League can dive into in the same way, I don't know that there's any great opprobrium to attach to Ivies being more aggressive with respect to flipping commits.

With that said, Yale in particular (the team I follow most), does not seem to have a particularly high number of commits in the non-early-recruiting era who are flipped, nor do the other Ivies. Seems about the same as for other competitive Division I programs.

Apologies for the interruption to normal programming. I think Chayse Ierlan is a huge pickup for JHU and I also think Logan Callaghan will be a strong presence at FOGO. With those two specialist positions in good hands and the other talent up and down the roster, it should be a great 2024 season for the Jays.

[The Orfling]

Someone left the administration so the playing field changed

Denver had a lot to offer opportunity, admission standards, opportunities for family etc

Princeton had an admissions director from the late 1980s to the early 2000s named Fred Hargadon. He LOVED sports and loved lacrosse in particular. Most of his career coincided with President Harold Shapiro, with whom he had a great relationship (and who deferred to Hargadon). President Shapiro retired in 2001 and Hargadon in 2003. When the new president came in, the Princeton faculty pushed for more slots to be used on super high achieving academic prospects and fewer for athletics. Tierney stopped being able to get the full range of guys in that he had been able to bring in during the 1990s and it showed on the field.

[MDlaxfan76]

Someone left the administration so the playing field changed

Denver had a lot to offer opportunity, admission standards, opportunities for family etc

Princeton had an admissions director from the late 1980s to the early 2000s named Fred Hargadon. He LOVED sports and loved lacrosse in particular. Most of his career coincided with President Harold Shapiro, with whom he had a great relationship (and who deferred to Hargadon). President Shapiro retired in 2001 and Hargadon in 2003. When the new president came in, the Princeton faculty pushed for more slots to be used on super high achieving academic prospects and fewer for athletics. Tierney stopped being able to get the full range of guys in that he had been able to bring in during the 1990s and it showed on the field.

That's my understanding as well, though I wouldn't suggest that gave him a "monopoly" on recruits at all, nor any super special 'angle'...just that he had more admissions support than is typical for lacrosse at an Ivy other than arguably Cornell. And that's not as much admissions latitude as at a heck of a lot of other top 10 perennial lax powers. And a whole lot of those recruits who excelled on the field also did very, very well in the classroom too and would have been great picks for any Ivy...it's just that PU got more of them in that era. A couple a year difference adds up in Ivy wins and then NCAA chances. And when the tide turned and the admissions support became more typical of other Ivies, the incremental advantage lost may well have been frustrating given the string of prior success.

But let's not forget that 8-12 recruits a year gives no one a lock...still gotta pick the right ones that come together as a whole, and gotta coach the heck out of them.

I think the same can be said about Yale...the admissions support is stronger than most, but you still gotta pick the right kids and still gotta coach the heck out of them.

[MDlaxfan76]

Not trying to hijack the (legendary) Hop thread with Ivy-recruiting talk, but I wanted to respond to the more recent post about the Yale HC and decommitments.

In the early recruiting era, during which the Ivies could not participate in the early commitments, and the early recruiting "process" was non-binding commitments, I think it was not only fair but a matter of competitive necessity for the Ivies to stay in contact with early recruits and flip recruits who, later in their careers, had the interest/grades/talent to go Ivy.

In the current "free agency" era of lacrosse with the transfer portal, there are some parallels to the early recruiting era in the sense that the league as a whole is less able to take advantage of transfers (no grad transfers at any Ivy, and some schools -- Princeton, Harvard, Dartmouth come to mind -- which also don't bring on board undergrad transfers). In this high mobility era of lacrosse, with the post-matriculation transfer game not something the Ivy League can dive into in the same way, I don't know that there's any great opprobrium to attach to Ivies being more aggressive with respect to flipping commits.

With that said, Yale in particular (the team I follow most), does not seem to have a particularly high number of commits in the non-early-recruiting era who are flipped, nor do the other Ivies. Seems about the same as for other competitive Division I programs.

Apologies for the interruption to normal programming. I think Chayse Ierlan is a huge pickup for JHU and I also think Logan Callaghan will be a strong presence at FOGO. With those two specialist positions in good hands and the other talent up and down the roster, it should be a great 2024 season for the Jays.

+1

[jhu06]

https://www.instagram.com/jhumenslax/

quite the dinner for the fellas tonight. crab depot at homewood.
https://crabdepot.com/pages/crab-catering

[OCanada]

Someone left the administration so the playing field changed

Denver had a lot to offer opportunity, admission standards, opportunities for family etc

Princeton had an admissions director from the late 1980s to the early 2000s named Fred Hargadon. He LOVED sports and loved lacrosse in particular. Most of his career coincided with President Harold Shapiro, with whom he had a great relationship (and who deferred to Hargadon). President Shapiro retired in 2001 and Hargadon in 2003. When the new president came in, the Princeton faculty pushed for more slots to be used on super high achieving academic prospects and fewer for athletics. Tierney stopped being able to get the full range of guys in that he had been able to bring in during the 1990s and it showed on the field.

That's my understanding as well, though I wouldn't suggest that gave him a "monopoly" on recruits at all, nor any super special 'angle'...just that he had more admissions support than is typical for lacrosse at an Ivy other than arguably Cornell. And that's not as much admissions latitude as at a heck of a lot of other top 10 perennial lax powers. And a whole lot of those recruits who excelled on the field also did very, very well in the classroom too and would have been great picks for any Ivy...it's just that PU got more of them in that era. A couple a year difference adds up in Ivy wins and then NCAA chances. And when the tide turned and the admissions support became more typical of other Ivies, the incremental advantage lost may well have been frustrating given the string of prior success.

But let's not forget that 8-12 recruits a year gives no one a lock...still gotta pick the right ones that come together as a whole, and gotta coach the heck out of them.

I think the same can be said about Yale...the admissions support is stronger than most, but you still gotta pick the right kids and still gotta coach the heck out of them.

Early admissions played a role as well. I could not remember Hargadon’s name. In a competitive environment competition adapts. Hopkins lost three future first teamers who were down to the wire and when asked provided a rationale involving a different reason

[Sagittarius A*]

Early admissions played a role as well. I could not remember Hargadon’s name. In a competitive environment competition adapts. Hopkins lost three future first teamers who were down to the wire and when asked provided a rationale involving a different reason

ER or not, Petro seemed to recruit a lot of top-ranked players like Greeley, Epstein, Shack and Tinney (#2), plus a bevy of top -5 guys. But he had horrible horrible luck with injuries. Even their elite face-off man got injured in the 2015 Semis. I don't ever remember such bad luck with injuries in the past. Maybe the new Astroturf? who knows...
Of that group, only Tinney seemed to reach his potential.

[51percentcorn]

ER or not, Petro seemed to recruit a lot of top-ranked players like Greeley, Epstein, Shack and Tinney (#2), plus a bevy of top -5 guys. But he had horrible horrible luck with injuries. Even their elite face-off man got injured in the 2015 Semis. I don't ever remember such bad luck with injuries in the past. Maybe the new Astroturf? who knows...
Of that group, only Tinney seemed to reach his potential.

Well, first you have the chicken or egg thing - was the Top 5 ranking completely objective (even though still an opinion) or did the fact that Hopkins and David were recruiting them play into the ranking? Second none of Greeley's injuries occurred at Homewood - first was up at the Lake Placid summer deal where I believe the story was Desko had to call Petro and inform him one of his prized mid-fielders was headed for surgery. The second tear was at Navy Marine Corps where the once #1 ranked team came somewhat close to getting shut out. Shack had 209 points - tied for 7th All time and he is 5th all Time career assists. In the Hopkins record book only Jack Thomas, Richie Hirsch and Shack have the combo of at least 90 goals and 100 assists (Thomas and Hirsch are the only two members of the 100/100 club). I call that reaching some level of potential - I don't know what you call it. Still a crime that Shack and Wells are not on the All Time Hopkins team - their accomplishments pretty much demand it.

I believe some of the other injuries occurred elsewhere as well. Moreland's was in Philly - Supinski's was at Rutgers I believe (as a freshmen). A bit of a stretch to argue that long term exposure to the Homewood field caused all this. Greeley was a rising soph/Moreland a Freshmen/Supinski a Freshmen/Concannon was an underclassmen I believe - the Duke transfer had only 1 year at Hop. Plus the Hopkins field was the same field everybody was putting in at the time - and whatever you think of those fields and the little tire pieces - it had to be miles better on knees than that green colored concrete they played on for so many years. I also don't know if you take a deep dive in other programs whether Hopkins was all that unusual - 2016 had to be an abnormality but other than that - knee injuries are going to happen in a sport where there is so much cutting and changes of direction.

[MDlaxfan76]

Someone left the administration so the playing field changed

Denver had a lot to offer opportunity, admission standards, opportunities for family etc

Princeton had an admissions director from the late 1980s to the early 2000s named Fred Hargadon. He LOVED sports and loved lacrosse in particular. Most of his career coincided with President Harold Shapiro, with whom he had a great relationship (and who deferred to Hargadon). President Shapiro retired in 2001 and Hargadon in 2003. When the new president came in, the Princeton faculty pushed for more slots to be used on super high achieving academic prospects and fewer for athletics. Tierney stopped being able to get the full range of guys in that he had been able to bring in during the 1990s and it showed on the field.

That's my understanding as well, though I wouldn't suggest that gave him a "monopoly" on recruits at all, nor any super special 'angle'...just that he had more admissions support than is typical for lacrosse at an Ivy other than arguably Cornell. And that's not as much admissions latitude as at a heck of a lot of other top 10 perennial lax powers. And a whole lot of those recruits who excelled on the field also did very, very well in the classroom too and would have been great picks for any Ivy...it's just that PU got more of them in that era. A couple a year difference adds up in Ivy wins and then NCAA chances. And when the tide turned and the admissions support became more typical of other Ivies, the incremental advantage lost may well have been frustrating given the string of prior success.

But let's not forget that 8-12 recruits a year gives no one a lock...still gotta pick the right ones that come together as a whole, and gotta coach the heck out of them.

I think the same can be said about Yale...the admissions support is stronger than most, but you still gotta pick the right kids and still gotta coach the heck out of them.

Early admissions played a role as well. I could not remember Hargadon’s name. In a competitive environment competition adapts. Hopkins lost three future first teamers who were down to the wire and when asked provided a rationale involving a different reason

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that ER helped Tierney's recruiting during his tenure at Princeton? Or are you saying that in 2009 he read the tea leaves as to what was starting to happen with ER (at that point juniors committing) and he decided to move to Denver where he could at least be able to have flexibility (he was a trailer in ER at Denver, rarely super early)

And when you say that Hopkins "lost" 3 future first teamers, are you saying something specific about PU's recruiting pitch versus Hopkins? And what was that "reason"? Was it really any different than what it had been for decades?

No need to shade what you think was happening in that era, and if there are specific players you recall, who were they?

I guess I'd say more generally that Hopkins 'loses' recruits all the time to one or another competitor based upon a whole mix of factors, and always has, and vice versa Hopkins 'wins' its share of recruits for a whole mix of factors...some become first team AA's...most don't. There have obviously been eras in which Hopkins 'won' a heck of alot of those recruiting battles, others when Hopkins seemed to not win as many.

[HopFan16]

Coach Kelly posted some videos from the crab dinner last night and one from early this morning of the Jays trotting out on Homewood for the first day of conditioning. Very nice to see Vern Cooke out there and I believe the walk-on goalie from Lynchburg was there as well. No sign of the Minto guys, guess they didn't make it in time (or they're getting some time off).

Was struck by how much talent walked out of those Cordish doors. Don't think the "cupboard" has been this full in close to a decade. Health permitting I think this'll be a fun year.

[MDlaxfan76]

ER or not, Petro seemed to recruit a lot of top-ranked players like Greeley, Epstein, Shack and Tinney (#2), plus a bevy of top -5 guys. But he had horrible horrible luck with injuries. Even their elite face-off man got injured in the 2015 Semis. I don't ever remember such bad luck with injuries in the past. Maybe the new Astroturf? who knows...
Of that group, only Tinney seemed to reach his potential.

Well, first you have the chicken or egg thing - was the Top 5 ranking completely objective (even though still an opinion) or did the fact that Hopkins and David were recruiting them play into the ranking? Second none of Greeley's injuries occurred at Homewood - first was up at the Lake Placid summer deal where I believe the story was Desko had to call Petro and inform him one of his prized mid-fielders was headed for surgery. The second tear was at Navy Marine Corps where the once #1 ranked team came somewhat close to getting shut out. Shack had 209 points - tied for 7th All time and he is 5th all Time career assists. In the Hopkins record book only Jack Thomas, Richie Hirsch and Shack have the combo of at least 90 goals and 100 assists (Thomas and Hirsch are the only two members of the 100/100 club). I call that reaching some level of potential - I don't know what you call it. Still a crime that Shack and Wells are not on the All Time Hopkins team - their accomplishments pretty much demand it.

I believe some of the other injuries occurred elsewhere as well. Moreland's was in Philly - Supinski's was at Rutgers I believe (as a freshmen). A bit of a stretch to argue that long term exposure to the Homewood field caused all this. Greeley was a rising soph/Moreland a Freshmen/Supinski a Freshmen/Concannon was an underclassmen I believe - the Duke transfer had only 1 year at Hop. Plus the Hopkins field was the same field everybody was putting in at the time - and whatever you think of those fields and the little tire pieces - it had to be miles better on knees than that green colored concrete they played on for so many years. I also don't know if you take a deep dive in other programs whether Hopkins was all that unusual - 2016 had to be an abnormality but other than that - knee injuries are going to happen in a sport where there is so much cutting and changes of direction.

Agreed re Shack and Wells. That certainly sounds like injuries were not specific to Hop turf...it does seem that throughout the sport injuries have been significantly more frequent than my recollection of other eras.

I had a nice conversation with Shack at my niece's wedding a couple of weeks ago, first time I'd met him in person; impressive, charismatic young man. Self deprecating, humble, clear-eyed, easy smile. My son and I shared some good laughs about some of the games he and my son were in as opponents; he recalled specific plays with great humor. That's a young man any team would want badly on their side.

PS, we've discussed the problems with ER particularly in selecting goalies and defensemen. A whole lot of ER misses, especially with goalies, contributed to the team not being as strong as the best Hop teams.

[51percentcorn]

In terms of the decommit - could be many reasons:
- Hard to argue with going to Yale
- Closer to home it would seem
- High School teammates are going to be Elis
- Maybe there was an assessment as to what path to the field would be quicker but it looks to be on the surface a wash
- Girlfriend - family who knows
- Maybe Shay trotted out all of Sag A's and O'C's posts about Milliman/Baker/Daniels

I look at the 2024 class now - 10 names - might be 9 realistically with Ace Lumpis still getting football offers - if any of the big time schools he has visited (Penn State/USC/Illinois etc.) come up with a full scholarship under the couch cushions - I would think he is gone. JHU's hope is he values the Hopkins education and playing the Hopkins type of schedule vs. playing football at some of the schools that have actually offered him. But back to the class:
- Goalie - one whose helmet will extend over the cross bar - what a revelation
- Face-off - according to IL he must be the small/quicker FO type - I know he will get stronger but 160 lb FO men aren't common these days
- LSM - highly regarded Tyler Eye
- D - 1 - Kaestner
- 2 SSDMs - the aforementioned Ace and the kid from Long Island - Pace - whose highlight video is almost all SSDM
- 4 Offensive middies

So the class number is spot on - as the class leaving at the end of 25 is very small - even if you include some 2024 grads who would have an extra year - I wouldn't be surprised to see an attackman added maybe - especially if the class goes down to 9

[OCanada]

In terms of the decommit - could be many reasons:
- Hard to argue with going to Yale
- Closer to home it would seem
- High School teammates are going to be Elis
- Maybe there was an assessment as to what path to the field would be quicker but it looks to be on the surface a wash
- Girlfriend - family who knows
- Maybe Shay trotted out all of Sag A's and O'C's posts about Milliman/Baker/Daniels

I look at the 2024 class now - 10 names - might be 9 realistically with Ace Lumpis still getting football offers - if any of the big time schools he has visited (Penn State/USC/Illinois etc.) come up with a full scholarship under the couch cushions - I would think he is gone. JHU's hope is he values the Hopkins education and playing the Hopkins type of schedule vs. playing football at some of the schools that have actually offered him. But back to the class:
- Goalie - one whose helmet will extend over the cross bar - what a revelation
- Face-off - according to IL he must be the small/quicker FO type - I know he will get stronger but 160 lb FO men aren't common these days
- LSM - highly regarded Tyler Eye
- D - 1 - Kaestner
- 2 SSDMs - the aforementioned Ace and the kid from Long Island - Pace - whose highlight video is almost all SSDM
- 4 Offensive middies

So the class number is spot on - as the class leaving at the end of 25 is very small - even if you include some 2024 grads who would have an extra year - I wouldn't be surprised to see an attackman added maybe - especially if the class goes down to 9

Tired of repeating this. I like Jen amd have sat down with her to discuss lax. I am from Rochester NY and know people who know PM. I don’t have a problem with him either in any major sense. Quibbles. I don’t care for Daniels orcthe previous AD. I have company

Ironic to be having a meeting w Hop this week I guess.

[Sagittarius A*]

Tired of repeating this. I like Jen amd have sat down with her to discuss lax. I am from Rochester NY and know people who know PM. I don’t have a problem with him either in any major sense. Quibbles. I don’t care for Daniels orcthe previous AD. I have company

Ironic to be having a meeting w Hop this week I guess.

I actually saw Daniels at some of the games this last season. Maybe his interest level/engagement has increased??