January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

[cradleandshoot]

So, repeating this "gaming the system" is no more than conspiracy BS promotion.

ZERO evidence of this statement anywhere or at anytime, Salty. You never provide anything because there isn't anything.

You cannot just say that Biden won without some kind of qualification - which makes you just another sore loser.

"gaming the system" means that the courts made decisions that GOP legislatures didn't like...to give easier access to voters voting...

and yeah, they did.
But in MAGA speak this is unfair, "gaming"...because they can't control it...but if they can control something, that ain't "gaming"...

Biden won under the rules that had been changed due to the covid emergency -- True or False ?

https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/ ... ection.pdf

False. Biden v Trump wasn't alone on one single ballot, OS. Every ballot, which TeamTinFoil "forgets" in America, has DOZENS of elections, ballot initiatives, and the like. Dozens.

Did anyone who won, in any of the over 3,000 counties in America, refuse to take their seats, Old Salt? Or who won their ballot initiatives, protest?

No, right? That's how you know that TeamTinFoil is full of sh(t, and that no one-----and I mean NO ONE-----honestly believes that the HUNDREDS of 2020 elections and ballot initiatives were unfair. That means that both parties, and the voters themselves, believe that these were fair elections.

It's not our fault that TeamTinFoil is too stupid to understand how dumb their claims are. If McConnell, for example, said "I won unfairly, and won't take this seat"??? NOW you have my attention when it comes to voter fraud. Yet what happened? He took his seat without even a millisecond of hesitation. That tells you all you want to know, OS.

Whining is for losers. Ask Hillary about that. Do you (snicker) believe Hillary when she said she lost unfairly? Weird that you don't. Must be a reason for that.....

Suddenly I feel this huge compulsion to throw a lamp against the wall and cuss everybody out.

[a fan]

So, repeating this "gaming the system" is no more than conspiracy BS promotion.

ZERO evidence of this statement anywhere or at anytime, Salty. You never provide anything because there isn't anything.

You cannot just say that Biden won without some kind of qualification - which makes you just another sore loser.

"gaming the system" means that the courts made decisions that GOP legislatures didn't like...to give easier access to voters voting...

and yeah, they did.
But in MAGA speak this is unfair, "gaming"...because they can't control it...but if they can control something, that ain't "gaming"...

Biden won under the rules that had been changed due to the covid emergency -- True or False ?

https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/ ... ection.pdf

False. Biden v Trump wasn't alone on one single ballot, OS. Every ballot, which TeamTinFoil "forgets" in America, has DOZENS of elections, ballot initiatives, and the like. Dozens.

Did anyone who won, in any of the over 3,000 counties in America, refuse to take their seats, Old Salt? Or who won their ballot initiatives, protest?

No, right? That's how you know that TeamTinFoil is full of sh(t, and that no one-----and I mean NO ONE-----honestly believes that the HUNDREDS of 2020 elections and ballot initiatives were unfair. That means that both parties, and the voters themselves, believe that these were fair elections.

It's not our fault that TeamTinFoil is too stupid to understand how dumb their claims are. If McConnell, for example, said "I won unfairly, and won't take this seat"??? NOW you have my attention when it comes to voter fraud. Yet what happened? He took his seat without even a millisecond of hesitation. That tells you all you want to know, OS.

Whining is for losers. Ask Hillary about that. Do you (snicker) believe Hillary when she said she lost unfairly? Weird that you don't. Must be a reason for that.....

Suddenly I feel this huge compulsion to throw a lamp against the wall and cuss everybody out.

Folks cant' have it both ways: if the Republicans HONESTLY believed that our election ballots were compromised or somehow unfair? Not a single Republican would take their seat, and they'd demand another election.

Did that happen? Nope. So what does that tell you? That tells you that they condone the election, full stop.

Look, Dems think that Gerrmandering is unfair to them, do they not? So what? Does that mean that elections are never valid? Nope. It means: quit your whining, and run better candidates and campaigns. Same thing applies here.

[Typical Lax Dad]

So, repeating this "gaming the system" is no more than conspiracy BS promotion.

ZERO evidence of this statement anywhere or at anytime, Salty. You never provide anything because there isn't anything.

You cannot just say that Biden won without some kind of qualification - which makes you just another sore loser.

"gaming the system" means that the courts made decisions that GOP legislatures didn't like...to give easier access to voters voting...

and yeah, they did.
But in MAGA speak this is unfair, "gaming"...because they can't control it...but if they can control something, that ain't "gaming"...

Biden won under the rules that had been changed due to the covid emergency -- True or False ?

https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/ ... ection.pdf

False. Biden v Trump wasn't alone on one single ballot, OS. Every ballot, which TeamTinFoil "forgets" in America, has DOZENS of elections, ballot initiatives, and the like. Dozens.

Did anyone who won, in any of the over 3,000 counties in America, refuse to take their seats, Old Salt? Or who won their ballot initiatives, protest?

No, right? That's how you know that TeamTinFoil is full of sh(t, and that no one-----and I mean NO ONE-----honestly believes that the HUNDREDS of 2020 elections and ballot initiatives were unfair. That means that both parties, and the voters themselves, believe that these were fair elections.

It's not our fault that TeamTinFoil is too stupid to understand how dumb their claims are. If McConnell, for example, said "I won unfairly, and won't take this seat"??? NOW you have my attention when it comes to voter fraud. Yet what happened? He took his seat without even a millisecond of hesitation. That tells you all you want to know, OS.

Whining is for losers. Ask Hillary about that. Do you (snicker) believe Hillary when she said she lost unfairly? Weird that you don't. Must be a reason for that.....

I didn't say they were not fair. The Dems succeeded in changing the rules in the final months before the election & then won.

Sore loser…… I heard less complaining about the kid from Duke that stepped in the crease… sad.

[Typical Lax Dad]

And I think Trump's desire to mobilize the National Guard was not about protecting Congress at all, but rather to be ready for a declaration of martial law.

And Pelosi and Bowser were seeing that intent, smelling that intent. So, resisted militarization.

BINGO !!! ...& if Trump had ordered the NG to be activated in advance (even just standing by at the Armory & Andrews), then you & Pelosi & Bowser would have accused him of staging a coup.

Why did they complain about the NG deployment during the BLM riot ? There was no coup then. Bowser even had the NG troops evicted from their hotel rooms. They could have used some of that helo rotor downwash on the Capitol steps on Jan 6th.

I don't know about anyone accusing Trump of staging a coup, I think he actually was doing so. He wanted the violent confrontation between armed supporters and the counterprotestors, giving an excuse to declare martial law...with of course his remaining in power.

But Pelosi and Bowser smelled that intent...heck, I was yelling about it as we heard a-holes like Flynn floating such...

And then the counter protestors kept their distance.

And yeah, Bowser didn't want militarization of a response to BLM.
BLM in DC was NOT a riot until federal parties got involved.

We can debate that period to the cows come home, but you are quite correct that there was never any intent to control government through a coup by those protestors.

But there was such intent in the lead-up to Jan 6.

I think Trump and crew were initially hoping to accomplish it without the violence, but had a plan for violence being a big part of the pressure campaign on Pence to execute on the phony elector scheme if it needed a push. And that plan was floated well in advance. Even came into public view...

YGTBSM -- Trump & family had to be evacuated to the WH bunker (while you snickered), the statues in Laf Park were being pulled down, St John's Church was on fire. Bowser established the BLM Plaza adjacent to the WH grounds that became the rally point for the riot.
Fed police & NG were needed to protect the WH.

The Jan 6th investigations & prosecutions have failed to support your conspiracy theory. Get some more tin foil.

What that when you claimed the race riot was starting or was that a different riot? I lost track…..

[cradleandshoot]

So, repeating this "gaming the system" is no more than conspiracy BS promotion.

ZERO evidence of this statement anywhere or at anytime, Salty. You never provide anything because there isn't anything.

You cannot just say that Biden won without some kind of qualification - which makes you just another sore loser.

"gaming the system" means that the courts made decisions that GOP legislatures didn't like...to give easier access to voters voting...

and yeah, they did.
But in MAGA speak this is unfair, "gaming"...because they can't control it...but if they can control something, that ain't "gaming"...

Biden won under the rules that had been changed due to the covid emergency -- True or False ?

https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/ ... ection.pdf

False. Biden v Trump wasn't alone on one single ballot, OS. Every ballot, which TeamTinFoil "forgets" in America, has DOZENS of elections, ballot initiatives, and the like. Dozens.

Did anyone who won, in any of the over 3,000 counties in America, refuse to take their seats, Old Salt? Or who won their ballot initiatives, protest?

No, right? That's how you know that TeamTinFoil is full of sh(t, and that no one-----and I mean NO ONE-----honestly believes that the HUNDREDS of 2020 elections and ballot initiatives were unfair. That means that both parties, and the voters themselves, believe that these were fair elections.

It's not our fault that TeamTinFoil is too stupid to understand how dumb their claims are. If McConnell, for example, said "I won unfairly, and won't take this seat"??? NOW you have my attention when it comes to voter fraud. Yet what happened? He took his seat without even a millisecond of hesitation. That tells you all you want to know, OS.

Whining is for losers. Ask Hillary about that. Do you (snicker) believe Hillary when she said she lost unfairly? Weird that you don't. Must be a reason for that.....

Suddenly I feel this huge compulsion to throw a lamp against the wall and cuss everybody out.

Folks cant' have it both ways: if the Republicans HONESTLY believed that our election ballots were compromised or somehow unfair? Not a single Republican would take their seat, and they'd demand another election.

Did that happen? Nope. So what does that tell you? That tells you that they condone the election, full stop.

Look, Dems think that Gerrmandering is unfair to them, do they not? So what? Does that mean that elections are never valid? Nope. It means: quit your whining, and run better candidates and campaigns. Same thing applies here.

Hard for Republicans in New York State to find good candidates much less run them. They would rather quit the state and move away. My favorite republican in my state is David Bellavia. Even with his conservative credentials and CMoH Republicans don't like him. I'm sure if Ssgt. Bellavia runs in another state he will win hands down. If FLP have a strategy then NYS should be their test lab.

[a fan]

So, repeating this "gaming the system" is no more than conspiracy BS promotion.

ZERO evidence of this statement anywhere or at anytime, Salty. You never provide anything because there isn't anything.

You cannot just say that Biden won without some kind of qualification - which makes you just another sore loser.

"gaming the system" means that the courts made decisions that GOP legislatures didn't like...to give easier access to voters voting...

and yeah, they did.
But in MAGA speak this is unfair, "gaming"...because they can't control it...but if they can control something, that ain't "gaming"...

Biden won under the rules that had been changed due to the covid emergency -- True or False ?

https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/ ... ection.pdf

False. Biden v Trump wasn't alone on one single ballot, OS. Every ballot, which TeamTinFoil "forgets" in America, has DOZENS of elections, ballot initiatives, and the like. Dozens.

Did anyone who won, in any of the over 3,000 counties in America, refuse to take their seats, Old Salt? Or who won their ballot initiatives, protest?

No, right? That's how you know that TeamTinFoil is full of sh(t, and that no one-----and I mean NO ONE-----honestly believes that the HUNDREDS of 2020 elections and ballot initiatives were unfair. That means that both parties, and the voters themselves, believe that these were fair elections.

It's not our fault that TeamTinFoil is too stupid to understand how dumb their claims are. If McConnell, for example, said "I won unfairly, and won't take this seat"??? NOW you have my attention when it comes to voter fraud. Yet what happened? He took his seat without even a millisecond of hesitation. That tells you all you want to know, OS.

Whining is for losers. Ask Hillary about that. Do you (snicker) believe Hillary when she said she lost unfairly? Weird that you don't. Must be a reason for that.....

Suddenly I feel this huge compulsion to throw a lamp against the wall and cuss everybody out.

Folks cant' have it both ways: if the Republicans HONESTLY believed that our election ballots were compromised or somehow unfair? Not a single Republican would take their seat, and they'd demand another election.

Did that happen? Nope. So what does that tell you? That tells you that they condone the election, full stop.

Look, Dems think that Gerrmandering is unfair to them, do they not? So what? Does that mean that elections are never valid? Nope. It means: quit your whining, and run better candidates and campaigns. Same thing applies here.

Hard for Republicans in New York State to find good candidates much less run them. They would rather quit the state and move away. My favorite republican in my state is David Bellavia. Even with his conservative credentials and CMoH Republicans don't like him. I'm sure if Ssgt. Bellavia runs in another state he will win hands down. If FLP have a strategy then NYS should be their test lab.

And you'll find this is the case for Dems in most States, my man. Welcome to America!

We're pretty lucky out this way....we get good people running as both R's and D's, with a few notable exceptions. They're not perfect, but the nutjobs are pretty sparse out this way on the State level.

[cradleandshoot]

So, repeating this "gaming the system" is no more than conspiracy BS promotion.

ZERO evidence of this statement anywhere or at anytime, Salty. You never provide anything because there isn't anything.

You cannot just say that Biden won without some kind of qualification - which makes you just another sore loser.

"gaming the system" means that the courts made decisions that GOP legislatures didn't like...to give easier access to voters voting...

and yeah, they did.
But in MAGA speak this is unfair, "gaming"...because they can't control it...but if they can control something, that ain't "gaming"...

Biden won under the rules that had been changed due to the covid emergency -- True or False ?

https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/ ... ection.pdf

False. Biden v Trump wasn't alone on one single ballot, OS. Every ballot, which TeamTinFoil "forgets" in America, has DOZENS of elections, ballot initiatives, and the like. Dozens.

Did anyone who won, in any of the over 3,000 counties in America, refuse to take their seats, Old Salt? Or who won their ballot initiatives, protest?

No, right? That's how you know that TeamTinFoil is full of sh(t, and that no one-----and I mean NO ONE-----honestly believes that the HUNDREDS of 2020 elections and ballot initiatives were unfair. That means that both parties, and the voters themselves, believe that these were fair elections.

It's not our fault that TeamTinFoil is too stupid to understand how dumb their claims are. If McConnell, for example, said "I won unfairly, and won't take this seat"??? NOW you have my attention when it comes to voter fraud. Yet what happened? He took his seat without even a millisecond of hesitation. That tells you all you want to know, OS.

Whining is for losers. Ask Hillary about that. Do you (snicker) believe Hillary when she said she lost unfairly? Weird that you don't. Must be a reason for that.....

Suddenly I feel this huge compulsion to throw a lamp against the wall and cuss everybody out.

Folks cant' have it both ways: if the Republicans HONESTLY believed that our election ballots were compromised or somehow unfair? Not a single Republican would take their seat, and they'd demand another election.

Did that happen? Nope. So what does that tell you? That tells you that they condone the election, full stop.

Look, Dems think that Gerrmandering is unfair to them, do they not? So what? Does that mean that elections are never valid? Nope. It means: quit your whining, and run better candidates and campaigns. Same thing applies here.

Hard for Republicans in New York State to find good candidates much less run them. They would rather quit the state and move away. My favorite republican in my state is David Bellavia. Even with his conservative credentials and CMoH Republicans don't like him. I'm sure if Ssgt. Bellavia runs in another state he will win hands down. If FLP have a strategy then NYS should be their test lab.

And you'll find this is the case for Dems in most States, my man. Welcome to America!

We're pretty lucky out this way....we get good people running as both R's and D's, with a few notable exceptions. They're not perfect, but the nutjobs are pretty sparse out this way on the State level.

There use to be some decent Republicans in this state. The next generation is just a disorganized bunch of butt kissers. NYS will travel in whatever direction the Democrat party wants to take it. In the city of Rochester there is an often used term about certain communities being " underserved" The Democrats have been running the city since forever. Would that not make them the guilty party as to why these communities are " underserved" in the first place? They are the party calling the shots, have been for a very long time.

[MDlaxfan76]

And I think Trump's desire to mobilize the National Guard was not about protecting Congress at all, but rather to be ready for a declaration of martial law.

And Pelosi and Bowser were seeing that intent, smelling that intent. So, resisted militarization.

BINGO !!! ...& if Trump had ordered the NG to be activated in advance (even just standing by at the Armory & Andrews), then you & Pelosi & Bowser would have accused him of staging a coup.

Why did they complain about the NG deployment during the BLM riot ? There was no coup then. Bowser even had the NG troops evicted from their hotel rooms. They could have used some of that helo rotor downwash on the Capitol steps on Jan 6th.

I don't know about anyone accusing Trump of staging a coup, I think he actually was doing so. He wanted the violent confrontation between armed supporters and the counterprotestors, giving an excuse to declare martial law...with of course his remaining in power.

But Pelosi and Bowser smelled that intent...heck, I was yelling about it as we heard a-holes like Flynn floating such...

And then the counter protestors kept their distance.

And yeah, Bowser didn't want militarization of a response to BLM.
BLM in DC was NOT a riot until federal parties got involved.

We can debate that period to the cows come home, but you are quite correct that there was never any intent to control government through a coup by those protestors.

But there was such intent in the lead-up to Jan 6.

I think Trump and crew were initially hoping to accomplish it without the violence, but had a plan for violence being a big part of the pressure campaign on Pence to execute on the phony elector scheme if it needed a push. And that plan was floated well in advance. Even came into public view...

YGTBSM -- Trump & family had to be evacuated to the WH bunker (while you snickered), the statues in Laf Park were being pulled down, St John's Church was on fire. Bowser established the BLM Plaza adjacent to the WH grounds that became the rally point for the riot.
Fed police & NG were needed to protect the WH.

The Jan 6th investigations & prosecutions have failed to support your conspiracy theory. Get some more tin foil.

yes, and they had already militarized the response before that. That's what triggered that crowd.

I'm not saying that there didn't need to be concern or even that they shouldn't have pulled in assets, but there was so much bluster that it invited the riot. That aspect wasn't needed.

[old salt]

And I think Trump's desire to mobilize the National Guard was not about protecting Congress at all, but rather to be ready for a declaration of martial law.

And Pelosi and Bowser were seeing that intent, smelling that intent. So, resisted militarization.

BINGO !!! ...& if Trump had ordered the NG to be activated in advance (even just standing by at the Armory & Andrews), then you & Pelosi & Bowser would have accused him of staging a coup.

Why did they complain about the NG deployment during the BLM riot ? There was no coup then. Bowser even had the NG troops evicted from their hotel rooms. They could have used some of that helo rotor downwash on the Capitol steps on Jan 6th.

I don't know about anyone accusing Trump of staging a coup, I think he actually was doing so. He wanted the violent confrontation between armed supporters and the counterprotestors, giving an excuse to declare martial law...with of course his remaining in power.

But Pelosi and Bowser smelled that intent...heck, I was yelling about it as we heard a-holes like Flynn floating such...

And then the counter protestors kept their distance.

And yeah, Bowser didn't want militarization of a response to BLM.
BLM in DC was NOT a riot until federal parties got involved.

We can debate that period to the cows come home, but you are quite correct that there was never any intent to control government through a coup by those protestors.

But there was such intent in the lead-up to Jan 6.

I think Trump and crew were initially hoping to accomplish it without the violence, but had a plan for violence being a big part of the pressure campaign on Pence to execute on the phony elector scheme if it needed a push. And that plan was floated well in advance. Even came into public view...

YGTBSM -- Trump & family had to be evacuated to the WH bunker (while you snickered), the statues in Laf Park were being pulled down, St John's Church was on fire. Bowser established the BLM Plaza adjacent to the WH grounds that became the rally point for the riot.
Fed police & NG were needed to protect the WH.

The Jan 6th investigations & prosecutions have failed to support your conspiracy theory. Get some more tin foil.

yes, and they had already militarized the response before that. That's what triggered that crowd.
...come on. They were already in Laf Park, trying to pull down statues & defacing the structures. So Bowser closed off a street, declared it BLM Plaza & made it the rallying point for the riot. She even painted the street.

I'm not saying that there didn't need to be concern or even that they shouldn't have pulled in assets, but there was so much bluster that it invited the riot. That aspect wasn't needed. The riot was already underway. BLM Plaza drew the growing mob there.

[MDlaxfan76]

And I think Trump's desire to mobilize the National Guard was not about protecting Congress at all, but rather to be ready for a declaration of martial law.

And Pelosi and Bowser were seeing that intent, smelling that intent. So, resisted militarization.

BINGO !!! ...& if Trump had ordered the NG to be activated in advance (even just standing by at the Armory & Andrews), then you & Pelosi & Bowser would have accused him of staging a coup.

Why did they complain about the NG deployment during the BLM riot ? There was no coup then. Bowser even had the NG troops evicted from their hotel rooms. They could have used some of that helo rotor downwash on the Capitol steps on Jan 6th.

I don't know about anyone accusing Trump of staging a coup, I think he actually was doing so. He wanted the violent confrontation between armed supporters and the counterprotestors, giving an excuse to declare martial law...with of course his remaining in power.

But Pelosi and Bowser smelled that intent...heck, I was yelling about it as we heard a-holes like Flynn floating such...

And then the counter protestors kept their distance.

And yeah, Bowser didn't want militarization of a response to BLM.
BLM in DC was NOT a riot until federal parties got involved.

We can debate that period to the cows come home, but you are quite correct that there was never any intent to control government through a coup by those protestors.

But there was such intent in the lead-up to Jan 6.

I think Trump and crew were initially hoping to accomplish it without the violence, but had a plan for violence being a big part of the pressure campaign on Pence to execute on the phony elector scheme if it needed a push. And that plan was floated well in advance. Even came into public view...

YGTBSM -- Trump & family had to be evacuated to the WH bunker (while you snickered), the statues in Laf Park were being pulled down, St John's Church was on fire. Bowser established the BLM Plaza adjacent to the WH grounds that became the rally point for the riot.
Fed police & NG were needed to protect the WH.

The Jan 6th investigations & prosecutions have failed to support your conspiracy theory. Get some more tin foil.

yes, and they had already militarized the response before that. That's what triggered that crowd.
...come on. They were already in Laf Park, trying to pull down statues & defacing the structures. So Bowser closed off a street, declared it BLM Plaza & made it the rallying point for the riot. She even painted the street.

I'm not saying that there didn't need to be concern or even that they shouldn't have pulled in assets, but there was so much bluster that it invited the riot. That aspect wasn't needed. The riot was already underway. BLM Plaza drew the growing mob there.

nope, there was a federalized, riot gear, Secret Service and then more response prior to any of the serious violence that came remotely close to the White House.

https://www.wusa9.com/article/features/ ... 16a516d6f1

That's not a critique of what was an understandable concern, just the facts of what happened.

[old salt]

And I think Trump's desire to mobilize the National Guard was not about protecting Congress at all, but rather to be ready for a declaration of martial law.

And Pelosi and Bowser were seeing that intent, smelling that intent. So, resisted militarization.

BINGO !!! ...& if Trump had ordered the NG to be activated in advance (even just standing by at the Armory & Andrews), then you & Pelosi & Bowser would have accused him of staging a coup.

Why did they complain about the NG deployment during the BLM riot ? There was no coup then. Bowser even had the NG troops evicted from their hotel rooms. They could have used some of that helo rotor downwash on the Capitol steps on Jan 6th.

I don't know about anyone accusing Trump of staging a coup, I think he actually was doing so. He wanted the violent confrontation between armed supporters and the counterprotestors, giving an excuse to declare martial law...with of course his remaining in power.

But Pelosi and Bowser smelled that intent...heck, I was yelling about it as we heard a-holes like Flynn floating such...

And then the counter protestors kept their distance.

And yeah, Bowser didn't want militarization of a response to BLM.
BLM in DC was NOT a riot until federal parties got involved.

We can debate that period to the cows come home, but you are quite correct that there was never any intent to control government through a coup by those protestors.

But there was such intent in the lead-up to Jan 6.

I think Trump and crew were initially hoping to accomplish it without the violence, but had a plan for violence being a big part of the pressure campaign on Pence to execute on the phony elector scheme if it needed a push. And that plan was floated well in advance. Even came into public view...

YGTBSM -- Trump & family had to be evacuated to the WH bunker (while you snickered), the statues in Laf Park were being pulled down, St John's Church was on fire. Bowser established the BLM Plaza adjacent to the WH grounds that became the rally point for the riot.
Fed police & NG were needed to protect the WH.

The Jan 6th investigations & prosecutions have failed to support your conspiracy theory. Get some more tin foil.

yes, and they had already militarized the response before that. That's what triggered that crowd.
...come on. They were already in Laf Park, trying to pull down statues & defacing the structures. So Bowser closed off a street, declared it BLM Plaza & made it the rallying point for the riot. She even painted the street.

I'm not saying that there didn't need to be concern or even that they shouldn't have pulled in assets, but there was so much bluster that it invited the riot. That aspect wasn't needed. The riot was already underway. BLM Plaza drew the growing mob there.

nope, there was a federalized, riot gear, Secret Service and then more response prior to any of the serious violence that came remotely close to the White House.

https://www.wusa9.com/article/features/ ... 16a516d6f1

That's not a critique of what was an understandable concern, just the facts of what happened.

You're link is about the 2 days (May 29/30) prior to the large confrontation on Jun 1 -- the Battle of Laf Park
The WH had to be locked down on May 29. The SS had to evac Trump to the WH bunker on Fri night May 29.
The military presence & activity, in the form of the DC NG, was not until Jun 1, the 4th day of the growing DC protests
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lafayette ... %20with%20

On June 1, 2020, amid mass protests in Washington, DC and nationally, ...Lafayette Square and surrounding city streets were forcefully evicted of protesters, reporters, and clergy by police in riot gear using tear gas and clubbing them with batons. A day after the incident, a DOJ official said that U.S. Attorney General William Barr had personally ordered the park and surrounding areas to be cleared which resulted in a display of police aggression against a largely peaceful crowd. The act, carried out by U.S. Park Police, Arlington County police, Federal Bureau of Prisons officers, and Secret Service officers, was condemned by critics as a violation of the First Amendment right to freedom of assembly. Bureau of Prison officials fired pepper spray munitions, contrary to the instructions of Park Police leadership. Although the D.C. Metropolitan Police was not involved in the initial advance of police against the crowd, MPD officers fired tear gas at demonstrators as they moved away from the park toward 17th Street.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lafayette- ... l-testify/

Lafayette Square, located north of the White House, was one of the locations nationwide where protests erupted after the death of George Floyd... Barr said that the demonstrations there escalated in intensity over three nights beginning on Friday, May 29, and peaked on Sunday, May 31, when demonstrators set several fires, damaged buildings and launched projectiles.
On June 1, Mr. Trump gave a press conference in front of the White House about the protests and said he would deploy the military at demonstrations if they were not peaceful.

[old salt]

Hey MDLF76 -- you worried about political violence ? Look where the threat of violence is coming from.

Estimated number of Americans who agree
the use of force is justified to...

RESTORE TRUMP TO PRESIDENCY ---------------- 6.9 % 18 Million

PREVENT TRUMP FROM BEING PRESIDENT----- 11.6 % 30 Million

[tech37]

Hey MDLF76 -- you worried about political violence ? Look where the threat of violence is coming from.

Estimated number of Americans who agree
the use of force is justified to...

RESTORE TRUMP TO PRESIDENCY ---------------- 6.9 % 18 Million

PREVENT TRUMP FROM BEING PRESIDENT----- 11.6 % 30 Million

Ha... mdlax won't like those facts. Dampens his Aryan/White Nationalist rhetoric/narrative.

Of course, it's all bad/unfortunate from both sides.

[MDlaxfan76]

Hey MDLF76 -- you worried about political violence ? Look where the threat of violence is coming from.

Estimated number of Americans who agree
the use of force is justified to...

RESTORE TRUMP TO PRESIDENCY ---------------- 6.9 % 18 Million

PREVENT TRUMP FROM BEING PRESIDENT----- 11.6 % 30 Million

Yes, I'd seen that interview.

The #'s had skewed heavily in "GOP" approving of political violence (and still do), but when the question is asked specifically this way, the permission structure for violence has IMO caused a big part of the country to think that they're going to need to prepare for violence from the MAGA right and that it will be justified to fight them.

Huge problem. Not ok, regardless of political persuasion.
But there's now a very large portion of the population that expects such violence to happen...permission structure...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... nce-survey

[MDlaxfan76]

Hey MDLF76 -- you worried about political violence ? Look where the threat of violence is coming from.

Estimated number of Americans who agree
the use of force is justified to...

RESTORE TRUMP TO PRESIDENCY ---------------- 6.9 % 18 Million

PREVENT TRUMP FROM BEING PRESIDENT----- 11.6 % 30 Million

Ha... mdlax won't like those facts. Dampens his Aryan/White Nationalist rhetoric/narrative.

Of course, it's all bad/unfortunate from both sides.

not at all. I quite agree that it's not ok, from any direction.
It's a big reaction to the expectation of violence from the right.
These folks are expecting to have to fight fascism.

But the numbers still skew at the extremes very much heavily to "great replacement theory", etc nutcases and those who think it's more important to have a "strong leader" than democracy...this is where the greatest threat to American pluralist democracy is coming from.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... nce-survey

[MDlaxfan76]

And I think Trump's desire to mobilize the National Guard was not about protecting Congress at all, but rather to be ready for a declaration of martial law.

And Pelosi and Bowser were seeing that intent, smelling that intent. So, resisted militarization.

BINGO !!! ...& if Trump had ordered the NG to be activated in advance (even just standing by at the Armory & Andrews), then you & Pelosi & Bowser would have accused him of staging a coup.

Why did they complain about the NG deployment during the BLM riot ? There was no coup then. Bowser even had the NG troops evicted from their hotel rooms. They could have used some of that helo rotor downwash on the Capitol steps on Jan 6th.

I don't know about anyone accusing Trump of staging a coup, I think he actually was doing so. He wanted the violent confrontation between armed supporters and the counterprotestors, giving an excuse to declare martial law...with of course his remaining in power.

But Pelosi and Bowser smelled that intent...heck, I was yelling about it as we heard a-holes like Flynn floating such...

And then the counter protestors kept their distance.

And yeah, Bowser didn't want militarization of a response to BLM.
BLM in DC was NOT a riot until federal parties got involved.

We can debate that period to the cows come home, but you are quite correct that there was never any intent to control government through a coup by those protestors.

But there was such intent in the lead-up to Jan 6.

I think Trump and crew were initially hoping to accomplish it without the violence, but had a plan for violence being a big part of the pressure campaign on Pence to execute on the phony elector scheme if it needed a push. And that plan was floated well in advance. Even came into public view...

YGTBSM -- Trump & family had to be evacuated to the WH bunker (while you snickered), the statues in Laf Park were being pulled down, St John's Church was on fire. Bowser established the BLM Plaza adjacent to the WH grounds that became the rally point for the riot.
Fed police & NG were needed to protect the WH.

The Jan 6th investigations & prosecutions have failed to support your conspiracy theory. Get some more tin foil.

yes, and they had already militarized the response before that. That's what triggered that crowd.
...come on. They were already in Laf Park, trying to pull down statues & defacing the structures. So Bowser closed off a street, declared it BLM Plaza & made it the rallying point for the riot. She even painted the street.

I'm not saying that there didn't need to be concern or even that they shouldn't have pulled in assets, but there was so much bluster that it invited the riot. That aspect wasn't needed. The riot was already underway. BLM Plaza drew the growing mob there.

nope, there was a federalized, riot gear, Secret Service and then more response prior to any of the serious violence that came remotely close to the White House.

https://www.wusa9.com/article/features/ ... 16a516d6f1

That's not a critique of what was an understandable concern, just the facts of what happened.

You're link is about the 2 days (May 29/30) prior to the large confrontation on Jun 1 -- the Battle of Laf Park
The WH had to be locked down on May 29. The SS had to evac Trump to the WH bunker on Fri night May 29.
The military presence & activity, in the form of the DC NG, was not until Jun 1, the 4th day of the growing DC protests
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lafayette ... %20with%20

On June 1, 2020, amid mass protests in Washington, DC and nationally, ...Lafayette Square and surrounding city streets were forcefully evicted of protesters, reporters, and clergy by police in riot gear using tear gas and clubbing them with batons. A day after the incident, a DOJ official said that U.S. Attorney General William Barr had personally ordered the park and surrounding areas to be cleared which resulted in a display of police aggression against a largely peaceful crowd. The act, carried out by U.S. Park Police, Arlington County police, Federal Bureau of Prisons officers, and Secret Service officers, was condemned by critics as a violation of the First Amendment right to freedom of assembly. Bureau of Prison officials fired pepper spray munitions, contrary to the instructions of Park Police leadership. Although the D.C. Metropolitan Police was not involved in the initial advance of police against the crowd, MPD officers fired tear gas at demonstrators as they moved away from the park toward 17th Street.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lafayette- ... l-testify/

Lafayette Square, located north of the White House, was one of the locations nationwide where protests erupted after the death of George Floyd... Barr said that the demonstrations there escalated in intensity over three nights beginning on Friday, May 29, and peaked on Sunday, May 31, when demonstrators set several fires, damaged buildings and launched projectiles.
On June 1, Mr. Trump gave a press conference in front of the White House about the protests and said he would deploy the military at demonstrations if they were not peaceful.

Yes, and the two days prior the federalized, riot gear response had already been initiated. This was NOT the DC police, rather, at least on Trump's and Barr's part, it was a swaggering, federal escalation using the protests as an excuse to 'look strong'...but in reality Trump was cowering in a bunker... way, way before the later violence actually erupted as pepper spray was used, etc.

Again, I'm not critiquing the concern of the Secret Service, they have a job to do and I'm not faulting them, nor am I faulting the concerns various people had about what might happen...after all, people indeed blamed Trump for his racist rhetoric and the White House could well have been a target for violent extremism. It wasn't, but the concern was rational.

It was a fraught time and there are differing opinions about how to manage crowds, what can trigger them, why in some places riots occur whereas in others violence doesn't occur despite large protests. Not an easy call.

I haven't had that responsibility, so I'm not going to criticize either direction...I do think that lots of bluster and shows of force tend to rebound negatively, so I get why an alternative approach would be tried instead...though it risks not having sufficient resources. Tough call.

[MDlaxfan76]

Have you guys read the Georgia indictment?

It's a long, exhaustive read, but well worth the effort to see the minute detail involved.

The takeaway is that we were correct that this was a sprawling, concerted conspiracy to steal the election from the lawful outcome. It's clear that the prosecution has a massive amount of evidence and testimony, including from members of the conspiracy who have turned.

I found interesting that Meadows is indicted, which may mean that he didn't or wasn't allowed to cut a deal.

[Kismet]

Perhaps they don't need Meadows to "flip" given the actual hard evidence and/or witness testimony they already have to ultimately prove their case to a jury.

[MDlaxfan76]

Perhaps they don't need Meadows to "flip" given the actual hard evidence and/or witness testimony they already have to ultimately prove their case to a jury.

That was my thought as well...the question has been whether Meadows flipped in the federal case as he isn't on the indicted list...that case relies more on intent and what the President understood or didn't understand and Meadows was in the room for a very close and personal view of Trump's state of mind.

This case doesn't seem to rely so much on intent, but rather the sheer volume of acts of conspiracy, the facts of fraudulent statements and actions, the complicity in illegal acts, the solicitation of illegal acts, the acts of perjury, the various indications that members of the conspiracy were aware that the acts were unlawful, false, etc...but with RICO don't need to show that all conspirators knew everything, simply that they all conspired together in various ways, and thus are responsible for the actions of others.

Of course, further flipping is still possible, it's just that the plea agreements will be tougher on those who didn't flip upfront.

But I'm thinking that Willis felt Meadows didn't deserve to get off easily, too directly involved at the heart of it.

[old salt]

Hey MDLF76 -- you worried about political violence ? Look where the threat of violence is coming from.

Estimated number of Americans who agree
the use of force is justified to...

RESTORE TRUMP TO PRESIDENCY ---------------- 6.9 % 18 Million

PREVENT TRUMP FROM BEING PRESIDENT----- 11.6 % 30 Million

Ha... mdlax won't like those facts. Dampens his Aryan/White Nationalist rhetoric/narrative.

Of course, it's all bad/unfortunate from both sides.

not at all. I quite agree that it's not ok, from any direction.
It's a big reaction to the expectation of violence from the right.
These folks are expecting to have to fight fascism.

But the numbers still skew at the extremes very much heavily to "great replacement theory", etc nutcases and those who think it's more important to have a "strong leader" than democracy...this is where the greatest threat to American pluralist democracy is coming from.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... nce-survey

You're saying this with your tongue in your cheek, right ?