Future of Pac-10 lacrosse

[hmmm]

The interesting corollary to this story is what happens to Hopkins.

Apparently JHU’s affiliate agreement with big ten expires when big ten gets more than 8 lax teams.

These changes will get the big ten over that amount. If they end up removing Hopkins will be interesting where they land.

I think Hopkins should be ok. Both USC & Oregon don't have men's D1 lacrosse.
If not, They can always revise the agreement.

My guess is Hopkins ends up in Colonial or AAC for lacrosse. Can't see Big Ten carrying Hopkins and 8 other schools for women's lax since it would make it hard to have round robin conference play.

As mentioned previously, none of the 4 new schools have men’s lacrosse. Meaning the B1G would lose their AQ if they remove Hopkins on the men’s side. And the school wouldn’t just shrug their shoulders and let the conference kick the women out while the men stayed.

Teams play 14-17 regular season games. There’s no reason they can’t have 7-8 conference games be apart of that.

For matter of history, Hopkins Men's was added to B1G separately (and before) Hopkins Women's was added so shrugging their shoulders has happened before...and not a matter of choice for Hopkins. B1G Lacrosse Chair and coaches will vote if needed to act on new agreement.

Hopkins didn’t shrug their shoulders. The timeline of the men and women entering the Big Ten was dictated by Hopkins, not the league.

[Bystanders]

Although not so great for the “student” part of student-athlete, with long travel weekends back East every weekend as opposed to just the March tours Stanford has done recently.

[Art3mis]

I think the demise of the pac 12/10 gives Stanford cover to cut some sports. Women's Lacrosse could be on that chopping block. They do not have a strong alumni network that would self fund the program

[LaxDadMax]

I think the demise of the pac 12/10 gives Stanford cover to cut some sports. Women's Lacrosse could be on that chopping block. They do not have a strong alumni network that would self fund the program

From what i'm hearing in my network Stan/Cal to Big 12 is most likely scenario. Probably best possible scenario since it would allow them to have a robust lax conference with ASU, Colorado, UCF, and Cincy

[PacificCoastLaxFan]

I think the demise of the pac 12/10 gives Stanford cover to cut some sports. Women's Lacrosse could be on that chopping block. They do not have a strong alumni network that would self fund the program

From what i'm hearing in my network Stan/Cal to Big 12 is most likely scenario. Probably best possible scenario since it would allow them to have a robust lax conference with ASU, Colorado, UCF, and Cincy

Sounds like Stanford and Cal may trying to jump to the ACC. That could really bump up both schools frequent flyer miles haha. USC and Oregon in the Big 10 are obviously safe, Stanford and Cal in the ACC would be safe. ASU and Colorado in the Big 12 are on shaky ground IMO. Would it be out of the realm of possibility if 1 or both of those 2 teams go back to club status?

[West Coaster]

Would it be out of the realm of possibility if 1 or both of those 2 teams go back to club status?

Nothing's out of the realm of possiblity. Unfortunately.

Don't know if I read it or heard on a broadcast, but yesterday someone suggested that Stanford and Cal were seeking ACC membership for football only. If that's the case, then Stanford, Cal, ASU, Colorado, Davis, and SDSU can preserve AQ status by reforming in the MPSF. Fingers crossed.

[LaxDadMax]

I think the demise of the pac 12/10 gives Stanford cover to cut some sports. Women's Lacrosse could be on that chopping block. They do not have a strong alumni network that would self fund the program

From what i'm hearing in my network Stan/Cal to Big 12 is most likely scenario. Probably best possible scenario since it would allow them to have a robust lax conference with ASU, Colorado, UCF, and Cincy

Sounds like Stanford and Cal may trying to jump to the ACC. That could really bump up both schools frequent flyer miles haha. USC and Oregon in the Big 10 are obviously safe, Stanford and Cal in the ACC would be safe. ASU and Colorado in the Big 12 are on shaky ground IMO. Would it be out of the realm of possibility if 1 or both of those 2 teams go back to club status?

From what I've heard, once some current ACC teams leave (Clemson, F$U and maybe Miami or GT), it will start a whole new wave of dominos.

[PacificCoastLaxFan]

Would it be out of the realm of possibility if 1 or both of those 2 teams go back to club status?

Nothing's out of the realm of possiblity. Unfortunately.

Don't know if I read it or heard on a broadcast, but yesterday someone suggested that Stanford and Cal were seeking ACC membership for football only. If that's the case, then Stanford, Cal, ASU, Colorado, Davis, and SDSU can preserve AQ status by reforming in the MPSF. Fingers crossed.

That's good stuff thanks. And hats off to those 2 schools for considering ALL of their student athletes unlike USC and Oregon along with non lax team schools Wash and UCLA. Can't imagine the travel nightmare about to befall their non-football players.

Would love to see Utah add a women's D1 program alongside their men's team. Lacrosse is extremely popular in Utah. It's a beautiful school in the mountains similar to CU.

[watcherinthewoods]

Not sure where to put this, but Bryant to the CAA.

And then there is this: https://abc7chicago.com/northwestern-un ... /13630226/

[Kleizaster]

Not sure where to put this, but Bryant to the CAA.

And then there is this: https://abc7chicago.com/northwestern-un ... /13630226/

oh man..what on earth is going on at this school? I hope this young lady is okay and is getting help. If i was the parent of a child considering NW i would be asking alot of questions to KAH and the administration

[NULax2]

Not sure where to put this, but Bryant to the CAA.

And then there is this: https://abc7chicago.com/northwestern-un ... /13630226/

oh man..what on earth is going on at this school? I hope this young lady is okay and is getting help. If i was the parent of a child considering NW i would be asking alot of questions to KAH and the administration

Sad to hear, but I'm not sure what this has to do with KAH. Now, the administration is another matter.

[ultravisitor]

Not sure where to put this, but Bryant to the CAA.

And then there is this: https://abc7chicago.com/northwestern-un ... /13630226/

oh man..what on earth is going on at this school? I hope this young lady is okay and is getting help. If i was the parent of a child considering NW i would be asking alot of questions to KAH and the administration

If they went to the administration, and it sounds as though they did, then they went above KAH's head...so why are you trying to drag her into it?

[Carolinagrad]

Not sure where to put this, but Bryant to the CAA.

And then there is this: https://abc7chicago.com/northwestern-un ... /13630226/

Bryant is moving to CAA for only football. They will be in the American East for all other sports.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Not sure where to put this, but Bryant to the CAA.

And then there is this: https://abc7chicago.com/northwestern-un ... /13630226/

oh man..what on earth is going on at this school? I hope this young lady is okay and is getting help. If i was the parent of a child considering NW i would be asking alot of questions to KAH and the administration

If they went to the administration, and it sounds as though they did, then they went above KAH's head...so why are you trying to drag her into it?

Correct. Neither the coach nor the team are named or mentioned in the lawsuit; so far as this article states, anyway... viewtopic.php?p=486478#p486478

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

By Bob Ryan | Boston Globe Correspondent | August 11, 2023


"I’ll still watch the games. At least I think so. It’s what enablers do.

And that’s what we remaining fans of big-time college sports are. For anyone over the age of, let’s say, 20, the world of college sports is not the one we once knew and loved.

What are USC and UCLA doing in the Big Ten? What are Texas and Oklahoma doing in the SEC? Is the ACC seriously talking about bringing in Cal and Stanford?

For that matter, what is Boston College doing in the ACC? It turns out our beloved Eagles were the canary in the mine shaft when they abandoned the Big East — a basketball conference of which they were a founding member — in favor of the ACC, itself a basketball conference then in the process of being hijacked by football.

Conferences once made sense. Consider an entity created more than a century ago as the Pacific Coast Conference. As the Pac 8, what could have been more logical? Two teams in the state of Washington. Two teams in Oregon. Two teams in the Bay Area. Two teams in Los Angeles. Scheduling and travel couldn’t be simpler. Expand by incorporating two teams from Arizona. Why not?

It was truly the perfect conference.

As you may or may not know, the once-proud Pac 8/10 found out this week it would be down to just four: Washington State, Oregon State, Cal, and Stanford, which means it would cease to exist. Cal and Stanford going wherever won’t matter.

For those of you keeping score, if everything happens to plan by the year 2024, the SEC will have 16 teams, the Big 12 will have 16, and the Big Ten will have 18. Explain that to your kids.

Oh, and before I forget: Can anyone tell me how a future Big Ten conference stretching from Los Angeles to New Brunswick, N.J. (Rutgers) can schedule its non-revenue sports? Or does anyone care?

Again I feel compelled to remind you that the concept of big-time college sports is unique to America. We are the only nation in which our institutions of higher learning routinely provide entertainment for the masses. Canada? College sports in our friendly neighbor to the north are not a major item on most people’s sports menus. Accomplished adolescent basketball players have no choice but to come down here to play.

Now we all realize that the current madness that has engulfed college sports is easily explained. It has to do with the frantic pursuit of a five-letter word that begins with “M” and ends with “Y.”

The assumption is that people want to see the games and TV wants programming. It also happens that the big money sport is football. The Pac 10′s demise is due to its inability to negotiate a sufficiently lucrative TV contract that would allow it to compete with Power 5 conference rivals Big 12, SEC, Big Ten, and ACC. Henceforth, the Power 5 will be a Power 4.

Concurrent with all this are two items that have upset whatever semblance of order once existed in big-time college sports:  the Name-Image-Likeness (NIL) policy and the transfer portal.

For most of the 20th century and into the early 21st, the colleges playing football and basketball on a high level sold the public on the premise that the young men (until recently, women were not a factor) were legitimate students playing these sports while attending school on scholarship and they should be grateful for that privilege. But from the beginning, people pushed various envelopes.

In the 1890s, people spoke of the so-called “tramp athletes” who sometimes played for one school this week and another the next. Winning always was paramount. The NCAA itself basically came about because no one trusted anyone and rules needed to be established.

The mythology was encoded when legendary NCAA chief Walter Byers came up with the phrase “student-athlete” to ensure that the players could not be termed “employees” and thus be subject to possible legal involvement.

Well, we lurched into the 21st century perpetuating the “student-athlete” concept. Then a funny thing happened. Coaching salaries, for decades in the five figures (John Wooden retired in 1975 while making $32,500 a year), moved past the six-figure range into the sevens. Players such as UCLA’s Ed O’Bannon discovered their images and likenesses being used in video games without them being compensated and rightfully said, “Where’s mine?”

Making direct payments to players was always logistically unfeasible — does the starting quarterback get more than the backup tight end? — but we have now arrived at a juncture where players can indeed cash in on their image and likeness with endorsements, appearance fees, etc. Thus the rich can get richer by enticing players with help from boosters and local business folk. The ramifications of the NIL thing are just beginning to be felt. But they will be profound.

As for the transfer policy, “insanity” doesn’t begin to describe the climate. Suffice it to say that the unofficial operative phrase college coaches and administrators use to describe it is “The Wild, Wild West.”

Many schools now employ someone whose sole responsibility is to monitor the landscape in search of possible transfer targets. We’ve already had a Final Four participant play for four schools in four years, and he won’t be the last. I wonder how many classrooms he accidentally wandered into?

Full disclosure: I’ve been following college sports since my father, then the assistant athletic director at Villanova, first took me to the Pennsylvania Palestra in 1952. I feel very proprietary about college sports. Or, at least, I did.

Now? It just feels wrong, somehow. Yes, and please stop insulting our intelligence with this “student-athlete” nonsense. Those days, if they ever existed, are gone.

Deion Sanders U vs. TCU on Sept. 2. I’ll probably watch. It’s what an enabler would do."

[TNLAX]

By Bob Ryan | Boston Globe Correspondent | August 11, 2023


"I’ll still watch the games. At least I think so. It’s what enablers do.

And that’s what we remaining fans of big-time college sports are. For anyone over the age of, let’s say, 20, the world of college sports is not the one we once knew and loved.

What are USC and UCLA doing in the Big Ten? What are Texas and Oklahoma doing in the SEC? Is the ACC seriously talking about bringing in Cal and Stanford?

For that matter, what is Boston College doing in the ACC? It turns out our beloved Eagles were the canary in the mine shaft when they abandoned the Big East — a basketball conference of which they were a founding member — in favor of the ACC, itself a basketball conference then in the process of being hijacked by football.

Conferences once made sense. Consider an entity created more than a century ago as the Pacific Coast Conference. As the Pac 8, what could have been more logical? Two teams in the state of Washington. Two teams in Oregon. Two teams in the Bay Area. Two teams in Los Angeles. Scheduling and travel couldn’t be simpler. Expand by incorporating two teams from Arizona. Why not?

It was truly the perfect conference.

As you may or may not know, the once-proud Pac 8/10 found out this week it would be down to just four: Washington State, Oregon State, Cal, and Stanford, which means it would cease to exist. Cal and Stanford going wherever won’t matter.

For those of you keeping score, if everything happens to plan by the year 2024, the SEC will have 16 teams, the Big 12 will have 16, and the Big Ten will have 18. Explain that to your kids.

Oh, and before I forget: Can anyone tell me how a future Big Ten conference stretching from Los Angeles to New Brunswick, N.J. (Rutgers) can schedule its non-revenue sports? Or does anyone care?

Again I feel compelled to remind you that the concept of big-time college sports is unique to America. We are the only nation in which our institutions of higher learning routinely provide entertainment for the masses. Canada? College sports in our friendly neighbor to the north are not a major item on most people’s sports menus. Accomplished adolescent basketball players have no choice but to come down here to play.

Now we all realize that the current madness that has engulfed college sports is easily explained. It has to do with the frantic pursuit of a five-letter word that begins with “M” and ends with “Y.”

The assumption is that people want to see the games and TV wants programming. It also happens that the big money sport is football. The Pac 10′s demise is due to its inability to negotiate a sufficiently lucrative TV contract that would allow it to compete with Power 5 conference rivals Big 12, SEC, Big Ten, and ACC. Henceforth, the Power 5 will be a Power 4.

Concurrent with all this are two items that have upset whatever semblance of order once existed in big-time college sports:  the Name-Image-Likeness (NIL) policy and the transfer portal.

For most of the 20th century and into the early 21st, the colleges playing football and basketball on a high level sold the public on the premise that the young men (until recently, women were not a factor) were legitimate students playing these sports while attending school on scholarship and they should be grateful for that privilege. But from the beginning, people pushed various envelopes.

In the 1890s, people spoke of the so-called “tramp athletes” who sometimes played for one school this week and another the next. Winning always was paramount. The NCAA itself basically came about because no one trusted anyone and rules needed to be established.

The mythology was encoded when legendary NCAA chief Walter Byers came up with the phrase “student-athlete” to ensure that the players could not be termed “employees” and thus be subject to possible legal involvement.

Well, we lurched into the 21st century perpetuating the “student-athlete” concept. Then a funny thing happened. Coaching salaries, for decades in the five figures (John Wooden retired in 1975 while making $32,500 a year), moved past the six-figure range into the sevens. Players such as UCLA’s Ed O’Bannon discovered their images and likenesses being used in video games without them being compensated and rightfully said, “Where’s mine?”

Making direct payments to players was always logistically unfeasible — does the starting quarterback get more than the backup tight end? — but we have now arrived at a juncture where players can indeed cash in on their image and likeness with endorsements, appearance fees, etc. Thus the rich can get richer by enticing players with help from boosters and local business folk. The ramifications of the NIL thing are just beginning to be felt. But they will be profound.

As for the transfer policy, “insanity” doesn’t begin to describe the climate. Suffice it to say that the unofficial operative phrase college coaches and administrators use to describe it is “The Wild, Wild West.”

Many schools now employ someone whose sole responsibility is to monitor the landscape in search of possible transfer targets. We’ve already had a Final Four participant play for four schools in four years, and he won’t be the last. I wonder how many classrooms he accidentally wandered into?

Full disclosure: I’ve been following college sports since my father, then the assistant athletic director at Villanova, first took me to the Pennsylvania Palestra in 1952. I feel very proprietary about college sports. Or, at least, I did.

Now? It just feels wrong, somehow. Yes, and please stop insulting our intelligence with this “student-athlete” nonsense. Those days, if they ever existed, are gone.

Deion Sanders U vs. TCU on Sept. 2. I’ll probably watch. It’s what an enabler would do."

Thanks for sharing. Have been a Bob Ryan fan for many years. Not a fan of the NCAA at all, their time and purpose has faded. But I still believe the vast majority of students who play collage sports are in fact still "student-athletes".

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Thanks for sharing. Have been a Bob Ryan fan for many years. Not a fan of the NCAA at all, their time and purpose has faded. But I still believe the vast majority of students who play collage sports are in fact still "student-athletes".

You're welcome, TN. Yeah--I've always been a big fan of Ryan. Glad to find another fan.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Thanks for sharing. Have been a Bob Ryan fan for many years. Not a fan of the NCAA at all, their time and purpose has faded. But I still believe the vast majority of students who play collage sports are in fact still "student-athletes".

You're welcome, TN. Yeah--I've always been a big fan of Ryan. Glad to find another fan.

Agreed; thanks for posting. I'm no longer a Globe subscriber, so it was good to read a little Bob Ryan again.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Thanks--glad to know it.

[PacificCoastLaxFan]

By Bob Ryan | Boston Globe Correspondent | August 11, 2023
"...Oh, and before I forget: Can anyone tell me how a future Big Ten conference stretching from Los Angeles to New Brunswick, N.J. (Rutgers) can schedule its non-revenue sports? Or does anyone care?..."

I think we all know the answer...the AD's absolutely do not care. They only care about one thing and we all know what that is.