NCAA reorg imminent

[DocBarrister]

TALLAHASSEE — Florida State University's Board of Trustees is considering a departure from the Atlantic Coast Conference, as President Richard McCullough said Wednesday the school is facing an “existential crisis” over the way the conference distributes revenue.

Athletic conferences’ revenue distribution among schools relies heavily on media deals between the conferences and the networks that broadcast games.

McCullough, who has been at the helm of FSU since 2021, said that the Seminoles’ football program along with Clemson University’s “help to carry the value” of media rights among the 14 schools whose football programs are in the ACC.

“We have an average viewership of 3.2 million viewers” for football games, McCullough told the board. “We are one of the best media-value teams in the United States.”

… FSU trustees on Wednesday expressed strong support for the departure from the conference.

“Do we want to play games moving forward, or do we want to compete?” Drew Weatherford, an FSU trustee and former football player at the school, said.

Weatherford pointed to the rising cost of things such as building football facilities and paying coaches’ salaries as a reason that the school would seek more revenue through football — and a rationale to ditch its current conference.

“The simple fact is that the cost of playing at the highest level is outpacing the ACC’s ability to compete on a regular basis. And if you go back and look at how many wins ACC schools have had in the College Football Playoff, who other than Clemson has had meaningful wins?” Weatherford said.

https://news.wgcu.org/section/sports/20 ... ?_amp=true

I think the message is pretty simple … show us (FSU and Clemson) the money ($30 million extra each year for each school) or we’ll walk out the door and see you in court. Under the current deal, that would mean each of the other 12 schools voluntarily giving up $5 million each annually to keep FSU and Clemson in the ACC. I doubt that will happen.

DocBarrister

[Essexfenwick]

They can totally leave the ACC. They just need 150 million plus all the tv revenue from their home games for 14 years. They signed the contract. The Big Ten would probably average 75 million a year for home games between now and 2036 .. so 150 million plus 75 million times 14 years is 1.2 billion pay to the ACC.

They aren’t doing squat. There’s no such thing as “we didn’t make out on the contract we signed so we cancel it.”
FSU can pay 1.2 billion and put on their big boy pants.

[JoeMauer89]

They can totally leave the ACC. They just need 150 million plus all the tv revenue from their home games for 14 years. They signed the contract. The Big Ten would probably average 75 million a year for home games between now and 2036 .. so 150 million plus 75 million times 14 years is 1.2 billion pay to the ACC.

They aren’t doing squat. There’s no such thing as “we didn’t make out on the contract we signed so we cancel it.”
FSU can pay 1.2 billion and put on their big boy pants.

+1

Joe

[DocBarrister]

They can totally leave the ACC. They just need 150 million plus all the tv revenue from their home games for 14 years. They signed the contract. The Big Ten would probably average 75 million a year for home games between now and 2036 .. so 150 million plus 75 million times 14 years is 1.2 billion pay to the ACC.

They aren’t doing squat. There’s no such thing as “we didn’t make out on the contract we signed so we cancel it.”
FSU can pay 1.2 billion and put on their big boy pants.

Circumstances change. Business relationships change.

FSU (and probably other ACC schools) will challenge the enforceability of the GOR. There is no such thing as a “bulletproof” contract provision. Your view on contracts is pretty naive.

As just an example, FSU could argue that enforcing the GOR is counter to public policy considerations. It’s important to note that FSU is a Florida state (public) institution. It may be argued that potentially losing out on $400 million in additional media payments and penalizing FSU hundreds of millions of dollars in penalties is unconscionable and would inflict irreparable harm to FSU, its students, and the people of Florida. Would a Florida state court and jury really allow FSU to be harmed to the tune of nearly a billion dollars? I’m skeptical … and apparently, so are FSU’s lawyers.

In all likelihood, FSU and other schools leaving the ACC will eventually reach some mutually acceptable settlement with the conference and they will go their separate ways.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

What's Florida State's plan here? Collins didn't come out and say Florida State is going to challenge the grant of rights... but Florida State is going to challenge the grant of rights.

"We have a very good handle on what our risks are under that document. What our opportunities are under that document. That's the least of my worries. We have gotten a lot of counsel on that document, and that will not be the document that keeps us from taking action," he said. "I'll leave it at that."

[Bold added by me, DocBarrister.]

https://footballscoop.com/news/florida- ... -leave-acc

FSU’s lawyers apparently think they can castrate the GOR in court.

DocBarrister

[Farfromgeneva]

They can totally leave the ACC. They just need 150 million plus all the tv revenue from their home games for 14 years. They signed the contract. The Big Ten would probably average 75 million a year for home games between now and 2036 .. so 150 million plus 75 million times 14 years is 1.2 billion pay to the ACC.

They aren’t doing squat. There’s no such thing as “we didn’t make out on the contract we signed so we cancel it.”
FSU can pay 1.2 billion and put on their big boy pants.

Circumstances change. Business relationships change.

FSU (and probably other ACC schools) will challenge the enforceability of the GOR. There is no such thing as a “bulletproof” contract provision. Your view on contracts is pretty naive.

As just an example, FSU could argue that enforcing the GOR is counter to public policy considerations. It’s important to note that FSU is a Florida state (public) institution. It may be argued that potentially losing out on $400 million in additional media payments and penalizing FSU hundreds of millions of dollars in penalties is unconscionable and would inflict irreparable harm to FSU, its students, and the people of Florida. Would a Florida state court and jury really allow FSU to be harmed to the tune of nearly a billion dollars? I’m skeptical … and apparently, so are FSU’s lawyers.

In all likelihood, FSU and other schools leaving the ACC will eventually reach some mutually acceptable settlement with the conference and they will go their separate ways.

DocBarrister

Why do you assume jurisdiction would remain in FL? This turns into a civil war in the south when you consider how Baylor got into in the Big 8. What if UF & USC stop them. It’s all conjecture and I find comments from a trustee who was a former weak QB for FSU uncompellimg. Only presenting one side over and over again ignoring them actions or behavior and approach of the other side.

And it’s all just cheerleading this has never been agnostic.

[wgdsr]

so i guess coincidentally, fsu just broke from a board meeting where the prez, ad and a number of trustees whined and cried about the 20 year deal. that they signed. meanwhile, they've been doing this for over a decade even when the diff was a couple million.
https://www.tomahawknation.com/florida- ... eaving-acc

it's unacceptable! this is big boy football!!! another article had a trustee crying they can't fill their stadium after going .500 the last 5 years.

so the question remains... do they have the stones to take this to the attorneys and accept that outcome? buckle up, buttercups!

FSU is on the way out of the ACC. They are going to negotiate their way out or sue their way out, but they are on their way out.

ESPN, which is already cutting costs immensely, is probably going to balk at paying even their current meager payout without FSU football as part of the package. That might mean the end of the ESPN/ACC agreement, which will mean the end of the GOR, and the end of the ACC as we know it.

Florida State officials contemplate break from ACC: 'Not a matter of if ... but how and when,' trustee says

During a board of trustees meeting Wednesday, Florida State president Richard McCullough lamented on the gap in revenue projections between ACC schools and the country's top two conferences.

"We are seeing large media deals that have been made like the Big Ten and the SEC, which in many ways -- and perhaps it's an exaggeration -- have created an existential crisis in many ways for Florida State University," McCullough said during Wednesday's meeting. "We will be $30 million per school, per year behind in our gap in conference distribution with contracts that are said to go through 2036. This current situation presents a very difficult situation for us. ... Without increasing revenue, we will face major challenges in being able to compete in football, as the landscape is changing dramatically, with our ability to compete in NIL, coaching salaries and attractive facilities to continue to build our brand and be competitive."

McCullough went on to say the Seminoles "will at some point consider leaving the ACC" barring "radical change in revenue distribution." Other trustees were even more candid on a potential exit from the conference. FSU trustee Drew Weatherford stated, "it's not a matter of if we leave [the ACC], but how and when we leave." FSU trustee Justin Roth additionally called for an exit to come within the next year.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... -says/amp/

DocBarrister

you come to some bizarre conclusions, but that's fine it's a free country.

i truly hope fsu looks to exit. these people seem like spoiled 3 year olds that didn't get their ice cream, and the level of public complaining is unseemly. you have me agreeing-ish with essexfenwick, f.f.s. does it get better from them? probably not. it is funny how i've yet to see fsu take any responsibility here, but maybe that's on brand.

anyway, a good number of acc schools have one way to earn even more money, and that's for someone to try to leave. and if i were an attorney or client here, i'd much prefer being the one holding the grant of rights by contract, not the one trying to break that contract. but maybe you just love the underdog!

personally, i doubt they have the balls, but maybe they're both ignorant and entitled.

[steel_hop]

They can totally leave the ACC. They just need 150 million plus all the tv revenue from their home games for 14 years. They signed the contract. The Big Ten would probably average 75 million a year for home games between now and 2036 .. so 150 million plus 75 million times 14 years is 1.2 billion pay to the ACC.

They aren’t doing squat. There’s no such thing as “we didn’t make out on the contract we signed so we cancel it.”
FSU can pay 1.2 billion and put on their big boy pants.

Circumstances change. Business relationships change.

FSU (and probably other ACC schools) will challenge the enforceability of the GOR. There is no such thing as a “bulletproof” contract provision. Your view on contracts is pretty naive.

As just an example, FSU could argue that enforcing the GOR is counter to public policy considerations. It’s important to note that FSU is a Florida state (public) institution. It may be argued that potentially losing out on $400 million in additional media payments and penalizing FSU hundreds of millions of dollars in penalties is unconscionable and would inflict irreparable harm to FSU, its students, and the people of Florida. Would a Florida state court and jury really allow FSU to be harmed to the tune of nearly a billion dollars? I’m skeptical … and apparently, so are FSU’s lawyers.

In all likelihood, FSU and other schools leaving the ACC will eventually reach some mutually acceptable settlement with the conference and they will go their separate ways.

DocBarrister

Why do you assume jurisdiction would remain in FL? This turns into a civil war in the south when you consider how Baylor got into in the Big 8. What if UF & USC stop them. It’s all conjecture and I find comments from a trustee who was a former weak QB for FSU uncompellimg. Only presenting one side over and over again ignoring them actions or behavior and approach of the other side.

And it’s all just cheerleading this has never been agnostic.

I can almost guarantee this would never see the inside of a local Florida courthouse if they even tried this. I'd wager a great deal that any litigation will be in federal court or in local NC court (under NC laws - or where ever the ACC is situated). This is all smoke anyway. FSU's problem is much like UMd and UCLA's issues - they started these huge sports infrastructure projects and their football team has stunk and they've not been able to recoop the costs associated with said projects. So now they are blaming everyone but themselves and looking for a bailout from someone else. But, in this case, there is a really strong GOR contract limiting their ability.

And all of your arguments for why FSU should in fall into those kitchen sink positions that court finds for someone like this. But, when a court rules in favor they cite to valid arguments and issues then throws in things like policy considerations. It is weak sauce.

[DocBarrister]

They can totally leave the ACC. They just need 150 million plus all the tv revenue from their home games for 14 years. They signed the contract. The Big Ten would probably average 75 million a year for home games between now and 2036 .. so 150 million plus 75 million times 14 years is 1.2 billion pay to the ACC.

They aren’t doing squat. There’s no such thing as “we didn’t make out on the contract we signed so we cancel it.”
FSU can pay 1.2 billion and put on their big boy pants.

Circumstances change. Business relationships change.

FSU (and probably other ACC schools) will challenge the enforceability of the GOR. There is no such thing as a “bulletproof” contract provision. Your view on contracts is pretty naive.

As just an example, FSU could argue that enforcing the GOR is counter to public policy considerations. It’s important to note that FSU is a Florida state (public) institution. It may be argued that potentially losing out on $400 million in additional media payments and penalizing FSU hundreds of millions of dollars in penalties is unconscionable and would inflict irreparable harm to FSU, its students, and the people of Florida. Would a Florida state court and jury really allow FSU to be harmed to the tune of nearly a billion dollars? I’m skeptical … and apparently, so are FSU’s lawyers.

In all likelihood, FSU and other schools leaving the ACC will eventually reach some mutually acceptable settlement with the conference and they will go their separate ways.

DocBarrister

Why do you assume jurisdiction would remain in FL? This turns into a civil war in the south when you consider how Baylor got into in the Big 8. What if UF & USC stop them. It’s all conjecture and I find comments from a trustee who was a former weak QB for FSU uncompellimg. Only presenting one side over and over again ignoring them actions or behavior and approach of the other side.

And it’s all just cheerleading this has never been agnostic.

Florida would have a compelling interest in adjudicating a major case involving FSU, a major state institution. Depends on the specific details of a lawsuit, but I would think the FSU lawyers would tailor the case so that is can be kept in a Florida state court.

One thing is very clear from the reporting to date … FSU and other schools (the self-proclaimed “Magnificent Seven”) have looked at the GOR over a long period of time and at least FSU has concluded that the GOR would be vulnerable in court. Based on what I have read, such a GOR has never been challenged in a court. That’s a double edged sword … on one hand, no school has ever beaten a GOR in court. On the other hand, no conference has successfully defended a GOR against a lawsuit. With nearly a billion dollars at stake, I can imagine why some schools and their lawyers might be willing to take their chances in court, especially in a favorable venue.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

They can totally leave the ACC. They just need 150 million plus all the tv revenue from their home games for 14 years. They signed the contract. The Big Ten would probably average 75 million a year for home games between now and 2036 .. so 150 million plus 75 million times 14 years is 1.2 billion pay to the ACC.

They aren’t doing squat. There’s no such thing as “we didn’t make out on the contract we signed so we cancel it.”
FSU can pay 1.2 billion and put on their big boy pants.

Circumstances change. Business relationships change.

FSU (and probably other ACC schools) will challenge the enforceability of the GOR. There is no such thing as a “bulletproof” contract provision. Your view on contracts is pretty naive.

As just an example, FSU could argue that enforcing the GOR is counter to public policy considerations. It’s important to note that FSU is a Florida state (public) institution. It may be argued that potentially losing out on $400 million in additional media payments and penalizing FSU hundreds of millions of dollars in penalties is unconscionable and would inflict irreparable harm to FSU, its students, and the people of Florida. Would a Florida state court and jury really allow FSU to be harmed to the tune of nearly a billion dollars? I’m skeptical … and apparently, so are FSU’s lawyers.

In all likelihood, FSU and other schools leaving the ACC will eventually reach some mutually acceptable settlement with the conference and they will go their separate ways.

DocBarrister

Why do you assume jurisdiction would remain in FL? This turns into a civil war in the south when you consider how Baylor got into in the Big 8. What if UF & USC stop them. It’s all conjecture and I find comments from a trustee who was a former weak QB for FSU uncompellimg. Only presenting one side over and over again ignoring them actions or behavior and approach of the other side.

And it’s all just cheerleading this has never been agnostic.

I can almost guarantee this would never see the inside of a local Florida courthouse if they even tried this. I'd wager a great deal that any litigation will be in federal court or in local NC court (under NC laws - or where ever the ACC is situated). This is all smoke anyway. FSU's problem is much like UMd and UCLA's issues - they started these huge sports infrastructure projects and their football team has stunk and they've not been able to recoop the costs associated with said projects. So now they are blaming everyone but themselves and looking for a bailout from someone else. But, in this case, there is a really strong GOR contract limiting their ability.

And all of your arguments for why FSU should in fall into those kitchen sink positions that court finds for someone like this. But, when a court rules in favor they cite to valid arguments and issues then throws in things like policy considerations. It is weak sauce.

I’m pretty sure FSU would file a suit in Florida state court. Whether they could keep it there is another story, but they have a good shot at keeping it in Florida, whether in a state court or in a federal court, if they file first.

As I mentioned above, based on what I have read, a GOR like this has never been tested in a court of law. There would be a lot of uncertainty for both the ACC and FSU (and any other schools that proceed to challenge the GOR in court). That’s why I think a settlement is likely and FSU (and probably other ACC schools) will leave the conference under a negotiated agreement. Otherwise, the ACC could face the better part of a decade in litigation.

How on Earth is an athletic conference worth saving if half its members want to leave?

DocBarrister

[wgdsr]

here doc, this may get you up to speed:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... urbulence/

it would seem to me that no other conference (sec and b1g) would want to touch this with a 10 foot pole until a gor was settled. it would also seem to me that a wake forest lawyer would do his institution good (half a billion in acc payout + any media rights they get from schools leaving vs 100-200 million if the acc gets blown up and they become a mid-major @ best) to not settle even for $500 million but to go to fed court with scotus precedent.

but even if it's a mid-9 figure #.... fsu can kiss any advantage goodbye, and may be sealing their fate that they'll be underwater on it. much like okla and texas, but for 13 years instead of 1. as said from the beginning, they better have better lawyers, because that's a very large bite to have to chew.

[DocBarrister]

here doc, this may get you up to speed:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... urbulence/

it would seem to me that no other conference (sec and b1g) would want to touch this with a 10 foot pole until a gor was settled. it would also seem to me that a wake forest lawyer would do his institution good (half a billion in acc payout + any media rights they get from schools leaving vs 100-200 million if the acc gets blown up and they become a mid-major @ best) to not settle even for $500 million but to go to fed court with scotus precedent.

but even if it's a mid-9 figure #.... fsu can kiss any advantage goodbye, and may be sealing their fate that they'll be underwater on it. much like okla and texas, but for 13 years instead of 1. as said from the beginning, they better have better lawyers, because that's a very large bite to have to chew.

These GORs have not been tested in court. Their enforceability remains untested.

Besides, you are arguing with the wrong person. FSU’s lawyers have reportedly taken a good, long look at the GOR and are apparently not intimidated by it.

The real bias here is among ACC fans like you who want to see the conference stay together.

Why?

The ACC is not serving its members well with the current media contract. That’s not my opinion … it is reportedly the opinion of half its member schools.

So, why should the ACC continue to exist if not for the benefit of its member schools?

DocBarrister

[wgdsr]

here doc, this may get you up to speed:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... urbulence/

it would seem to me that no other conference (sec and b1g) would want to touch this with a 10 foot pole until a gor was settled. it would also seem to me that a wake forest lawyer would do his institution good (half a billion in acc payout + any media rights they get from schools leaving vs 100-200 million if the acc gets blown up and they become a mid-major @ best) to not settle even for $500 million but to go to fed court with scotus precedent.

but even if it's a mid-9 figure #.... fsu can kiss any advantage goodbye, and may be sealing their fate that they'll be underwater on it. much like okla and texas, but for 13 years instead of 1. as said from the beginning, they better have better lawyers, because that's a very large bite to have to chew.

These GORs have not been tested in court. Their enforceability remains untested.

Besides, you are arguing with the wrong person. FSU’s lawyers have reportedly taken a good, long look at the GOR and are apparently not intimidated by it.

The real bias here is among ACC fans like you who want to see the conference stay together.

Why?

The ACC is not serving its members well with the current media contract. That’s not my opinion … it is reportedly the opinion of half its member schools.

So, why should the ACC continue to exist if not for the benefit of its member schools?

DocBarrister

lol. they're not intimidated because they're crying at a board meeting? we'll see! guess we'll know by august 15th at least for this year. this episode was a not very veiled threat to give them more money. they don't even know what the new cfp payout deal will look like for their superior football team.

i don't "want" anything. sure, i'd prefer the acc stays together in kumbaya, but no one in charlotte cares what i think. what i have consistently posted on is my read of the situation. and garbage takes at times from others.

as far as serving schools... 14-15 schools have signed a contract. i didn't sign it, they did. your view that "half" don't like it so it's bad kinda ignores the other half, dontcha think?

i would be more than happy to see the seminoles put up or shut up. they were just given an "unequal revenue share" opportunity, and now they're saying that's trash. if i were wake, i'd say lfg.

[DocBarrister]

here doc, this may get you up to speed:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... urbulence/

it would seem to me that no other conference (sec and b1g) would want to touch this with a 10 foot pole until a gor was settled. it would also seem to me that a wake forest lawyer would do his institution good (half a billion in acc payout + any media rights they get from schools leaving vs 100-200 million if the acc gets blown up and they become a mid-major @ best) to not settle even for $500 million but to go to fed court with scotus precedent.

but even if it's a mid-9 figure #.... fsu can kiss any advantage goodbye, and may be sealing their fate that they'll be underwater on it. much like okla and texas, but for 13 years instead of 1. as said from the beginning, they better have better lawyers, because that's a very large bite to have to chew.

These GORs have not been tested in court. Their enforceability remains untested.

Besides, you are arguing with the wrong person. FSU’s lawyers have reportedly taken a good, long look at the GOR and are apparently not intimidated by it.

The real bias here is among ACC fans like you who want to see the conference stay together.

Why?

The ACC is not serving its members well with the current media contract. That’s not my opinion … it is reportedly the opinion of half its member schools.

So, why should the ACC continue to exist if not for the benefit of its member schools?

DocBarrister

lol. they're not intimidated because they're crying at a board meeting? we'll see! guess we'll know by august 15th at least for this year. this episode was a not very veiled threat to give them more money. they don't even know what the new cfp payout deal will look like for their superior football team.

i don't "want" anything. sure, i'd prefer the acc stays together in kumbaya, but no one in charlotte cares what i think. what i have consistently posted on is my read of the situation. and garbage takes at times from others.

as far as serving schools... 14-15 schools have signed a contract. i didn't sign it, they did. your view that "half" don't like it so it's bad kinda ignores the other half, dontcha think?

i would be more than happy to see the seminoles put up or shut up. they were just given an "unequal revenue share" opportunity, and now they're saying that's trash. if i were wake, i'd say lfg.

Your views are so old fashioned and out of date.

Kind of reminds me of old and outdated views of marriage. Yeah, your marriage isn’t working anymore, but you chose to get married and you’re obligated to stick with it.

That is, of course, absurd. If a marriage isn’t working anymore, half the partnership wants out, and attempts at reconciliation have failed to address the issues to everyone’s satisfaction … time for a divorce.

Business contracts are the same kind of thing. So the entire ACC signed a media deal and GOR 8 years ago that seemed like a good idea at the time. Circumstances have changed. The 20-year deal now looks like a terrible mistake. Half the conference wants to leave. Some schools like FSU and Clemson stand to lose a tremendous amount of money that could benefit their students and institutions. Why keep things together when the contract no longer serves to benefit much of the conference?

Unless the ACC can come to some sort of resolution (namely, finding an extra $30 million a year for FSU and Clemson), why should the ACC stay together?

Right now, it’s like a bad marriage. It’s time to let go of something that is no longer working.

Remember … contracts, like marriage (which is arguably a type of contract), are supposed to exist for the benefit of all parties. When a contract or marriage no longer benefits all parties, a divorce may be the best outcome.

DocBarrister

[wgdsr]

here doc, this may get you up to speed:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... urbulence/

it would seem to me that no other conference (sec and b1g) would want to touch this with a 10 foot pole until a gor was settled. it would also seem to me that a wake forest lawyer would do his institution good (half a billion in acc payout + any media rights they get from schools leaving vs 100-200 million if the acc gets blown up and they become a mid-major @ best) to not settle even for $500 million but to go to fed court with scotus precedent.

but even if it's a mid-9 figure #.... fsu can kiss any advantage goodbye, and may be sealing their fate that they'll be underwater on it. much like okla and texas, but for 13 years instead of 1. as said from the beginning, they better have better lawyers, because that's a very large bite to have to chew.

These GORs have not been tested in court. Their enforceability remains untested.

Besides, you are arguing with the wrong person. FSU’s lawyers have reportedly taken a good, long look at the GOR and are apparently not intimidated by it.

The real bias here is among ACC fans like you who want to see the conference stay together.

Why?

The ACC is not serving its members well with the current media contract. That’s not my opinion … it is reportedly the opinion of half its member schools.

So, why should the ACC continue to exist if not for the benefit of its member schools?

DocBarrister

lol. they're not intimidated because they're crying at a board meeting? we'll see! guess we'll know by august 15th at least for this year. this episode was a not very veiled threat to give them more money. they don't even know what the new cfp payout deal will look like for their superior football team.

i don't "want" anything. sure, i'd prefer the acc stays together in kumbaya, but no one in charlotte cares what i think. what i have consistently posted on is my read of the situation. and garbage takes at times from others.

as far as serving schools... 14-15 schools have signed a contract. i didn't sign it, they did. your view that "half" don't like it so it's bad kinda ignores the other half, dontcha think?

i would be more than happy to see the seminoles put up or shut up. they were just given an "unequal revenue share" opportunity, and now they're saying that's trash. if i were wake, i'd say lfg.

Your views are so old fashioned and out of date.

Kind of reminds me of old and outdated views of marriage. Yeah, your marriage isn’t working anymore, but you chose to get married and you’re obligated to stick with it.

That is, of course, absurd. If a marriage isn’t working anymore, half the partnership wants out, and attempts at reconciliation have failed to address the issues to everyone’s satisfaction … time for a divorce.

Business contracts are the same kind of thing. So the entire ACC signed a media deal and GOR 8 years ago that seemed like a good idea at the time. Circumstances have changed. The 20-year deal now looks like a terrible mistake. Half the conference wants to leave. Some schools like FSU and Clemson stand to lose a tremendous amount of money that could benefit their students and institutions. Why keep things together when the contract no longer serves to benefit much of the conference?

Unless the ACC can come to some sort of resolution (namely, finding an extra $30 million a year for FSU and Clemson), why should the ACC stay together?

Right now, it’s like a bad marriage. It’s time to let go of something that is no longer working.

Remember … contracts, like marriage (which is arguably a type of contract), are supposed to exist for the benefit of all parties. When a contract or marriage no longer benefits all parties, a divorce may be the best outcome.

DocBarrister

ok, whatever doc. sure, every time someone has the better end of a contract, they blow it up in the issue of fairness. i know that's what i do. i expect espn to walk away from this any day now.

i don't care that fsu is unhappy. i don't care that uva is unhappy. i am reading the room. so far... zero acc defections. if (and when) there is one or several, we'll see how it goes.

you look at zero challenges to the gor's as a great unknown, and then you listen to trustee curtis and weatherford for a second and say they're real tough guys. okey dokey.

the real news, this week anyway, is maybe coming out of the state of arizona and az + asu. depending on that outcome, oregon and washington are probably in play for the b1g.

[DocBarrister]

here doc, this may get you up to speed:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... urbulence/

it would seem to me that no other conference (sec and b1g) would want to touch this with a 10 foot pole until a gor was settled. it would also seem to me that a wake forest lawyer would do his institution good (half a billion in acc payout + any media rights they get from schools leaving vs 100-200 million if the acc gets blown up and they become a mid-major @ best) to not settle even for $500 million but to go to fed court with scotus precedent.

but even if it's a mid-9 figure #.... fsu can kiss any advantage goodbye, and may be sealing their fate that they'll be underwater on it. much like okla and texas, but for 13 years instead of 1. as said from the beginning, they better have better lawyers, because that's a very large bite to have to chew.

These GORs have not been tested in court. Their enforceability remains untested.

Besides, you are arguing with the wrong person. FSU’s lawyers have reportedly taken a good, long look at the GOR and are apparently not intimidated by it.

The real bias here is among ACC fans like you who want to see the conference stay together.

Why?

The ACC is not serving its members well with the current media contract. That’s not my opinion … it is reportedly the opinion of half its member schools.

So, why should the ACC continue to exist if not for the benefit of its member schools?

DocBarrister

lol. they're not intimidated because they're crying at a board meeting? we'll see! guess we'll know by august 15th at least for this year. this episode was a not very veiled threat to give them more money. they don't even know what the new cfp payout deal will look like for their superior football team.

i don't "want" anything. sure, i'd prefer the acc stays together in kumbaya, but no one in charlotte cares what i think. what i have consistently posted on is my read of the situation. and garbage takes at times from others.

as far as serving schools... 14-15 schools have signed a contract. i didn't sign it, they did. your view that "half" don't like it so it's bad kinda ignores the other half, dontcha think?

i would be more than happy to see the seminoles put up or shut up. they were just given an "unequal revenue share" opportunity, and now they're saying that's trash. if i were wake, i'd say lfg.

Your views are so old fashioned and out of date.

Kind of reminds me of old and outdated views of marriage. Yeah, your marriage isn’t working anymore, but you chose to get married and you’re obligated to stick with it.

That is, of course, absurd. If a marriage isn’t working anymore, half the partnership wants out, and attempts at reconciliation have failed to address the issues to everyone’s satisfaction … time for a divorce.

Business contracts are the same kind of thing. So the entire ACC signed a media deal and GOR 8 years ago that seemed like a good idea at the time. Circumstances have changed. The 20-year deal now looks like a terrible mistake. Half the conference wants to leave. Some schools like FSU and Clemson stand to lose a tremendous amount of money that could benefit their students and institutions. Why keep things together when the contract no longer serves to benefit much of the conference?

Unless the ACC can come to some sort of resolution (namely, finding an extra $30 million a year for FSU and Clemson), why should the ACC stay together?

Right now, it’s like a bad marriage. It’s time to let go of something that is no longer working.

Remember … contracts, like marriage (which is arguably a type of contract), are supposed to exist for the benefit of all parties. When a contract or marriage no longer benefits all parties, a divorce may be the best outcome.

DocBarrister

ok, whatever doc. sure, every time someone has the better end of a contract, they blow it up in the issue of fairness. i know that's what i do. i expect espn to walk away from this any day now.

i don't care that fsu is unhappy. i don't care that uva is unhappy. i am reading the room. so far... zero acc defections. if (and when) there is one or several, we'll see how it goes.

you look at zero challenges to the gor's as a great unknown, and then you listen to trustee curtis and weatherford for a second and say they're real tough guys. okey dokey.

the real news, this week anyway, is maybe coming out of the state of arizona and az + asu. depending on that outcome, oregon and washington are probably in play for the b1g.

Does your read of the room include the “Magnificent Seven” who looked at breaking the GOR to escape not only the ESPN deal but also the ACC?

The PAC-12 is a good example of a conference that was in denial for far too long. The PAC-12 is finished because they tried to keep a bad marriage together and their commissioner was borderline delusional about the current landscape (see his delusional comments on a “gentleman’s agreement” https://www.al.com/sec/2021/08/this-is- ... utType=amp).

If you don’t care that FSU and UVA and half the conference is unhappy, then you don’t really care about the ACC.

If you think the ACC should stay together with half the conference wanting to quit, well … that’s borderline delusional.

Commissioner Phillips has a narrow window to come up with a radical change that can make all ACC members happy.

Barring some miracle … not going to happen.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

Some of us discussed a merger between the PAC-12 and ACC as a potential solution.

Jim Williams (@JWMediaDC), an Emmy award winning media producer, is now reporting that the ACC is discussing with ESPN the possible addition of 8 PAC-12 schools and how much ESPN would pay for a new 22-team conference.

This would have been a great development … a year or two ago.

It’s a desperate move … a Hail Mary, if you will … but it’s precisely what needs to be done.

DocBarrister

[steel_hop]

here doc, this may get you up to speed:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... urbulence/

it would seem to me that no other conference (sec and b1g) would want to touch this with a 10 foot pole until a gor was settled. it would also seem to me that a wake forest lawyer would do his institution good (half a billion in acc payout + any media rights they get from schools leaving vs 100-200 million if the acc gets blown up and they become a mid-major @ best) to not settle even for $500 million but to go to fed court with scotus precedent.

but even if it's a mid-9 figure #.... fsu can kiss any advantage goodbye, and may be sealing their fate that they'll be underwater on it. much like okla and texas, but for 13 years instead of 1. as said from the beginning, they better have better lawyers, because that's a very large bite to have to chew.

These GORs have not been tested in court. Their enforceability remains untested.

Besides, you are arguing with the wrong person. FSU’s lawyers have reportedly taken a good, long look at the GOR and are apparently not intimidated by it.

The real bias here is among ACC fans like you who want to see the conference stay together.

Why?

The ACC is not serving its members well with the current media contract. That’s not my opinion … it is reportedly the opinion of half its member schools.

So, why should the ACC continue to exist if not for the benefit of its member schools?

DocBarrister

The GOR is a contract/ Last time I checked contracts are tested in court all the time. The GOR is something that FSU willing signed (and I'm assuming they had vetted by lawyers at that time). Nothing is ironclad so who knows but the fact FSU and other schools have talked about leaving for the last 2-3 years and done nothing tells me it is pretty darn close. And if it is a contract, the ACC isn't stopping them from breaking it but like all good contracts there is a damages clause in it for FSU's failure to perform. FSU is just whining it doesn't like the damages clause.

I've yet to meet an attorney that represents a client that doesn't say out loud their client has a strong case. Zealous representation and all.

Lastly, you divorce point is exactly on point. If someone wants to get divorced because it isn't working than usually there is some type of payment. In this case, it the billion dollars. FSU comes up with that money, I'm sure the other ACC schools will likely them go their way. The problem is FSU just wants to leave like a typical deadbeat.

[DocBarrister]

here doc, this may get you up to speed:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... urbulence/

it would seem to me that no other conference (sec and b1g) would want to touch this with a 10 foot pole until a gor was settled. it would also seem to me that a wake forest lawyer would do his institution good (half a billion in acc payout + any media rights they get from schools leaving vs 100-200 million if the acc gets blown up and they become a mid-major @ best) to not settle even for $500 million but to go to fed court with scotus precedent.

but even if it's a mid-9 figure #.... fsu can kiss any advantage goodbye, and may be sealing their fate that they'll be underwater on it. much like okla and texas, but for 13 years instead of 1. as said from the beginning, they better have better lawyers, because that's a very large bite to have to chew.

These GORs have not been tested in court. Their enforceability remains untested.

Besides, you are arguing with the wrong person. FSU’s lawyers have reportedly taken a good, long look at the GOR and are apparently not intimidated by it.

The real bias here is among ACC fans like you who want to see the conference stay together.

Why?

The ACC is not serving its members well with the current media contract. That’s not my opinion … it is reportedly the opinion of half its member schools.

So, why should the ACC continue to exist if not for the benefit of its member schools?

DocBarrister

The GOR is a contract/ Last time I checked contracts are tested in court all the time. The GOR is something that FSU willing signed (and I'm assuming they had vetted by lawyers at that time). Nothing is ironclad so who knows but the fact FSU and other schools have talked about leaving for the last 2-3 years and done nothing tells me it is pretty darn close. And if it is a contract, the ACC isn't stopping them from breaking it but like all good contracts there is a damages clause in it for FSU's failure to perform. FSU is just whining it doesn't like the damages clause.

I've yet to meet an attorney that represents a client that doesn't say out loud their client has a strong case. Zealous representation and all.

Lastly, you divorce point is exactly on point. If someone wants to get divorced because it isn't working than usually there is some type of payment. In this case, it the billion dollars. FSU comes up with that money, I'm sure the other ACC schools will likely them go their way. The problem is FSU just wants to leave like a typical deadbeat.

I doubt FSU’s lawyers are acting like cheerleaders. I am certain they have presented all the risks and potential benefits of challenging the GOR, and the odds of winning such a challenge. A GOR like this has never been challenged in court, so I am certain the lawyers have outlined the uncertainty of it all.

The GOR is like a prenuptial agreement. As I’m sure you know, prenuptial agreements are challenged (and renegotiated) all the time.

Barring some miraculous development that satisfies all the ACC schools, I suspect the ACC (like the PAC-12) is headed towards dissolution with a negotiated settlement that will allow schools like Clemson and FSU to leave at a much lower cost than what the current agreement requires.

DocBarrister

[wgdsr]

Does your read of the room include the “Magnificent Seven” who looked at breaking the GOR to escape not only the ESPN deal but also the ACC?

The PAC-12 is a good example of a conference that was in denial for far
If you don’t care that FSU and UVA and half the conference is unhappy, then you don’t really care about the ACC.

If you think the ACC should stay together with half the conference wanting to quit, well … that’s borderline delusional.

Commissioner Phillips has a narrow window to come up with a radical change that can make all ACC members happy.

Barring some miracle … not going to happen.

DocBarrister

we all get it that your over-the-top conjecture certitude is meant to draw clicks and dislikes, what's weird that you lean into it.

your marriage analogy is missing the pre-nup in this case. which can be negotiated or not. what they're largely not done is discounted 80% if they're "ironclad".

you... don't... know... what's.... going... to... happen... for sure... at all... see your last post about the pac.

this isn't even devil's advocate. if i am a non "magnificent seven" (just another ruse by doc b that the moniker is self-named) member, what incentive do i have to disengage on what may be the most significant windfall of my future? unless i can be assured i'll go along happily at my present standing? i'm listening and i don't accept that there's other schools that want to date someone hotter as a good reason.

i have never said the conference should stay together. i'm saying there's a very high likelihood that the non-hot girls may not be so easy to dump. and the evidence thus far... is that they haven't been.