Israel and West Bank Settlements

[tech37]

And now we have POS Greg Gutfeld smirkily weighing in on the Holocaust, "utility"...
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/25/media/wh ... aust/index

Typical Biden WH over-reaction for effect. Just as they are doing with the FL education guidelines.
No honest effort to examine what's being said & place it in context.
That's why honest debate or discussion is no longer possible.
That was hardly an endorsement of the Holocaust, & acknowledging that some freed slaves emerged with marketable skills is hardly an endorsement for slavery. No honest, fair minded person would make that interpretation then exploit it for divisive effect.

wow, joining the POS Gutfeld. And the numbskull racists in Florida who thought making teachers teach that slaves benefited from slavery...

Just so gross that you don't realize it.

That's an "honest and fair-minded" response.

You render rational discourse impossible. Zero perspective.
You're a princess with a pea beneath 20 matresses, needle in a hay stack.

Gutfeld was praising the human spirit, even under the most horrendous conditions.

“Gutfeld was praising the human spirit, even under the most horrendous conditions.”

Sweet jeebus!! Have you read “Man’s Search for Meaning”? Do you understand what Frankl was saying about the debasememt of self implicit in being of “utility” to the Nazis? I truly hope not, or you are a monster.

Did Gutfeld misquote Frankl, or just touch a hot button third rail issue which is too fraught with emotion to rationally discuss ?
There's no way that what he said can be rationally interpreted as minimizing the horrors of the Holocaust.
Gutfeld did not raise the Holocaust. He was responding to a panelist who made the analogy to the FL BoE guidelines.
He pointed out that Frankl wrote that their skills & utility helped some to survive the concentration camps. Nothing more.

Yup, I agree with the above in blue.
I'd bet you have no comprehension at all, never read it...but that Gutfeld goes there suggests that he actually has or some other POS told him that the point Frankl was making was that survivors survived because they had "utility"...and that this is "praising the human spirit" as opposed to condemning in the strongest terms the nazi death camp machine and what it did to people. As to human spirit he wrote from a psychological perspective of the importance of hope, of imagining a future beyond the immense suffering. He believed there were just two types of people, "decent" and "indecent". Nazi guards could be decent (a few) or indecent (most) as there could be decent or..indecent prisoners who preyed on other prisoners including providing "utility" as a kapo on behalf of the guards...

Yes, jeebus..."utility"...

Did you see the entire segment in which Gutfeld made that comment ? They weren't even discussing the Holocaust until another panel member made the analogy to the FL instruction.

Yes, I did. The Jewish woman commentator (the token liberal) said she couldn't speak with the same insight about what it would feel like to be a descendant of American slaves, but could analogize to a claim that the Holocaust benefited Jews in concentration camps...and Gutfeld quickly pulled Frankl out of his a-s with this claim of "utility", like the good little nazi wannabe that he is.

Seriously, you want to double down again?

No thanks. You are sick & paranoid. Name calling & misrepresenting what others say to fit your political biases.

Uh huh, yes, I'll call Gutfeld a nazi wannabe POS. Not paranoid at all to recognize it.
It's gross.

I don't think you are, but you refuse to dig harder and recognize the error.

You do understand that any Jews who survived did so only on a temporary basis, that all were slated for death?
ALL. No exceptions?

And that "utility" was the moral justification for the most inhumane possible medical experimentation on prisoners?
That "utility" was the moral justification for mass extermination?
That "utility" was the justification for slave labor/death camps?

It's a perversion of utilitarianism, which I don't hold to as is, but the Nazi's perversion of "utility" was throughout their efficiency in mass extermination.

This just laughable... Gutfeld is guilty of being a bad comic, I'll give that but he's no more "nazi" than you are mdlax.

Tossing that label around so recklessly depletes what a real nazi is and at same time dishonors actual victims of nazism.

Just being provocative or trolling OS... I hope.

[a fan]

You render rational discourse impossible. Zero perspective.
You're a princess with a pea beneath 20 matresses, needle in a hay stack.

Gutfeld was praising the human spirit, even under the most horrendous conditions.
I didn't want to have to post something this lengthy, but you asked for it.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/k ... urriculum/

Kamala Harris Is Brazenly Lying about Florida’s Slavery Curriculum

by CHARLES C. W. COOKE, July 21, 2023

In remarks Thursday, Harris blasted efforts in some states to ban books and “push forward revisionist history.”

“Just yesterday in the state of Florida, they decided middle school students will be taught that enslaved people benefited from slavery,” she said at a convention for the traditionally Black sorority Delta Sigma Theta Inc. “They insult us in an attempt to gaslight us, and we will not stand for it.”

This is a brazen lie. It’s an astonishing lie. It’s an evil lie. It is so untrue — so deliberately and cynically misleading — that, in a sensible political culture, Harris would be obligated to issue an apology. Instead, NBC confirms that she will repeat the lie today during a speech in Jacksonville.

Tell you what: explain why you feel the need to add that new section, OS? That it's 100% NEEDED to add that section, and that without it, these kids leave Florida schools uneducated.

Do that? And I'll agree with you. Make your case as to why it's so critical to add that part, that Florida needs to mandate BY LAW that teachers tells kids that that slavery taught slaves life skills.

And then when you make your case, explain why it wasn't popped into Holocaust instruction.

You have the floor.

[MDlaxfan76]

And now we have POS Greg Gutfeld smirkily weighing in on the Holocaust, "utility"...
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/25/media/wh ... aust/index

Typical Biden WH over-reaction for effect. Just as they are doing with the FL education guidelines.
No honest effort to examine what's being said & place it in context.
That's why honest debate or discussion is no longer possible.
That was hardly an endorsement of the Holocaust, & acknowledging that some freed slaves emerged with marketable skills is hardly an endorsement for slavery. No honest, fair minded person would make that interpretation then exploit it for divisive effect.

wow, joining the POS Gutfeld. And the numbskull racists in Florida who thought making teachers teach that slaves benefited from slavery...

Just so gross that you don't realize it.

That's an "honest and fair-minded" response.

You render rational discourse impossible. Zero perspective.
You're a princess with a pea beneath 20 matresses, needle in a hay stack.

Gutfeld was praising the human spirit, even under the most horrendous conditions.

“Gutfeld was praising the human spirit, even under the most horrendous conditions.”

Sweet jeebus!! Have you read “Man’s Search for Meaning”? Do you understand what Frankl was saying about the debasememt of self implicit in being of “utility” to the Nazis? I truly hope not, or you are a monster.

Did Gutfeld misquote Frankl, or just touch a hot button third rail issue which is too fraught with emotion to rationally discuss ?
There's no way that what he said can be rationally interpreted as minimizing the horrors of the Holocaust.
Gutfeld did not raise the Holocaust. He was responding to a panelist who made the analogy to the FL BoE guidelines.
He pointed out that Frankl wrote that their skills & utility helped some to survive the concentration camps. Nothing more.

Yup, I agree with the above in blue.
I'd bet you have no comprehension at all, never read it...but that Gutfeld goes there suggests that he actually has or some other POS told him that the point Frankl was making was that survivors survived because they had "utility"...and that this is "praising the human spirit" as opposed to condemning in the strongest terms the nazi death camp machine and what it did to people. As to human spirit he wrote from a psychological perspective of the importance of hope, of imagining a future beyond the immense suffering. He believed there were just two types of people, "decent" and "indecent". Nazi guards could be decent (a few) or indecent (most) as there could be decent or..indecent prisoners who preyed on other prisoners including providing "utility" as a kapo on behalf of the guards...

Yes, jeebus..."utility"...

Did you see the entire segment in which Gutfeld made that comment ? They weren't even discussing the Holocaust until another panel member made the analogy to the FL instruction.

Yes, I did. The Jewish woman commentator (the token liberal) said she couldn't speak with the same insight about what it would feel like to be a descendant of American slaves, but could analogize to a claim that the Holocaust benefited Jews in concentration camps...and Gutfeld quickly pulled Frankl out of his a-s with this claim of "utility", like the good little nazi wannabe that he is.

Seriously, you want to double down again?

No thanks. You are sick & paranoid. Name calling & misrepresenting what others say to fit your political biases.

Uh huh, yes, I'll call Gutfeld a nazi wannabe POS. Not paranoid at all to recognize it.
It's gross.

I don't think you are, but you refuse to dig harder and recognize the error.

You do understand that any Jews who survived did so only on a temporary basis, that all were slated for death?
ALL. No exceptions?

And that "utility" was the moral justification for the most inhumane possible medical experimentation on prisoners?
That "utility" was the moral justification for mass extermination?
That "utility" was the justification for slave labor/death camps?

It's a perversion of utilitarianism, which I don't hold to as is, but the Nazi's perversion of "utility" was throughout their efficiency in mass extermination.

This just laughable... Gutfeld is guilty of being a bad comic, I'll give that but he's no more "nazi" than you are mdlax.

Tossing that label around so recklessly depletes what a real nazi is and at same time dishonors actual victims of nazism.

Just being provocative or trolling OS... I hope.

Yes, he is definitely a bad comic.

And sure, the NAZIS did abominable atrocities that no one should in any way excuse.

But yeah, Gutfeld is a nazi wannabe, akin to Carlson, a-holes who traffic in the ideology of white christian nationalism knowing full well what their words and ideas mean to those groups. They're not simply stupid.

Gutfeld rushed to contradict the Jewish woman, pretending an "intellectual" grasp of a Jewish survivor's writing under the false guise that it refuted her point of empathy. The emphasis on "utility" and "usefulness" was no accident.

This is all part and parcel of the supremacist ideology and apologia for slavery, the Holocaust, etc. Gutfeld either knows it or darn well should have known it before going there.

Given what else I've seen of Gutfeld, I don't write him off as just having mean-spirited sense of "humor". I think he knows full well what signals he sends out, providing cover for the worst crap among us. He wants their eyeballs and ears, plays to them.

He has a very long history of such; this is far from an isolated incident.
And when someone tells you who they are, believe them.

But that's my opinion...you're free to give him a pass.

[tech37]

And now we have POS Greg Gutfeld smirkily weighing in on the Holocaust, "utility"...
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/25/media/wh ... aust/index

Typical Biden WH over-reaction for effect. Just as they are doing with the FL education guidelines.
No honest effort to examine what's being said & place it in context.
That's why honest debate or discussion is no longer possible.
That was hardly an endorsement of the Holocaust, & acknowledging that some freed slaves emerged with marketable skills is hardly an endorsement for slavery. No honest, fair minded person would make that interpretation then exploit it for divisive effect.

wow, joining the POS Gutfeld. And the numbskull racists in Florida who thought making teachers teach that slaves benefited from slavery...

Just so gross that you don't realize it.

That's an "honest and fair-minded" response.

You render rational discourse impossible. Zero perspective.
You're a princess with a pea beneath 20 matresses, needle in a hay stack.

Gutfeld was praising the human spirit, even under the most horrendous conditions.

“Gutfeld was praising the human spirit, even under the most horrendous conditions.”

Sweet jeebus!! Have you read “Man’s Search for Meaning”? Do you understand what Frankl was saying about the debasememt of self implicit in being of “utility” to the Nazis? I truly hope not, or you are a monster.

Did Gutfeld misquote Frankl, or just touch a hot button third rail issue which is too fraught with emotion to rationally discuss ?
There's no way that what he said can be rationally interpreted as minimizing the horrors of the Holocaust.
Gutfeld did not raise the Holocaust. He was responding to a panelist who made the analogy to the FL BoE guidelines.
He pointed out that Frankl wrote that their skills & utility helped some to survive the concentration camps. Nothing more.

Yup, I agree with the above in blue.
I'd bet you have no comprehension at all, never read it...but that Gutfeld goes there suggests that he actually has or some other POS told him that the point Frankl was making was that survivors survived because they had "utility"...and that this is "praising the human spirit" as opposed to condemning in the strongest terms the nazi death camp machine and what it did to people. As to human spirit he wrote from a psychological perspective of the importance of hope, of imagining a future beyond the immense suffering. He believed there were just two types of people, "decent" and "indecent". Nazi guards could be decent (a few) or indecent (most) as there could be decent or..indecent prisoners who preyed on other prisoners including providing "utility" as a kapo on behalf of the guards...

Yes, jeebus..."utility"...

Did you see the entire segment in which Gutfeld made that comment ? They weren't even discussing the Holocaust until another panel member made the analogy to the FL instruction.

Yes, I did. The Jewish woman commentator (the token liberal) said she couldn't speak with the same insight about what it would feel like to be a descendant of American slaves, but could analogize to a claim that the Holocaust benefited Jews in concentration camps...and Gutfeld quickly pulled Frankl out of his a-s with this claim of "utility", like the good little nazi wannabe that he is.

Seriously, you want to double down again?

No thanks. You are sick & paranoid. Name calling & misrepresenting what others say to fit your political biases.

Uh huh, yes, I'll call Gutfeld a nazi wannabe POS. Not paranoid at all to recognize it.
It's gross.

I don't think you are, but you refuse to dig harder and recognize the error.

You do understand that any Jews who survived did so only on a temporary basis, that all were slated for death?
ALL. No exceptions?

And that "utility" was the moral justification for the most inhumane possible medical experimentation on prisoners?
That "utility" was the moral justification for mass extermination?
That "utility" was the justification for slave labor/death camps?

It's a perversion of utilitarianism, which I don't hold to as is, but the Nazi's perversion of "utility" was throughout their efficiency in mass extermination.

This just laughable... Gutfeld is guilty of being a bad comic, I'll give that but he's no more "nazi" than you are mdlax.

Tossing that label around so recklessly depletes what a real nazi is and at same time dishonors actual victims of nazism.

Just being provocative or trolling OS... I hope.

Yes, he is definitely a bad comic.

And sure, the NAZIS did abominable atrocities that no one should in any way excuse.

But yeah, Gutfeld is a nazi wannabe, akin to Carlson, a-holes who traffic in the ideology of white christian nationalism knowing full well what their words and ideas mean to those groups. They're not simply stupid.

Gutfeld rushed to contradict the Jewish woman, pretending an "intellectual" grasp of a Jewish survivor's writing under the false guise that it refuted her point of empathy. The emphasis on "utility" and "usefulness" was no accident.

This is all part and parcel of the supremacist ideology and apologia for slavery, the Holocaust, etc. Gutfeld either knows it or darn well should have known it before going there.

Given what else I've seen of Gutfeld, I don't write him off as just having mean-spirited sense of "humor". I think he knows full well what signals he sends out, providing cover for the worst crap among us. We wants their eyeballs and ears, plays to them.

He has a very long history of such; this is far from an isolated incident.
And when someone tells you who they are, believe them.

But that's my opinion...you're free to give him a pass.

Yikes! Get a grip man. That beer summit you suggested on other thread looking dubious.

[MDlaxfan76]

And now we have POS Greg Gutfeld smirkily weighing in on the Holocaust, "utility"...
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/25/media/wh ... aust/index

Typical Biden WH over-reaction for effect. Just as they are doing with the FL education guidelines.
No honest effort to examine what's being said & place it in context.
That's why honest debate or discussion is no longer possible.
That was hardly an endorsement of the Holocaust, & acknowledging that some freed slaves emerged with marketable skills is hardly an endorsement for slavery. No honest, fair minded person would make that interpretation then exploit it for divisive effect.

wow, joining the POS Gutfeld. And the numbskull racists in Florida who thought making teachers teach that slaves benefited from slavery...

Just so gross that you don't realize it.

That's an "honest and fair-minded" response.

You render rational discourse impossible. Zero perspective.
You're a princess with a pea beneath 20 matresses, needle in a hay stack.

Gutfeld was praising the human spirit, even under the most horrendous conditions.

“Gutfeld was praising the human spirit, even under the most horrendous conditions.”

Sweet jeebus!! Have you read “Man’s Search for Meaning”? Do you understand what Frankl was saying about the debasememt of self implicit in being of “utility” to the Nazis? I truly hope not, or you are a monster.

Did Gutfeld misquote Frankl, or just touch a hot button third rail issue which is too fraught with emotion to rationally discuss ?
There's no way that what he said can be rationally interpreted as minimizing the horrors of the Holocaust.
Gutfeld did not raise the Holocaust. He was responding to a panelist who made the analogy to the FL BoE guidelines.
He pointed out that Frankl wrote that their skills & utility helped some to survive the concentration camps. Nothing more.

Yup, I agree with the above in blue.
I'd bet you have no comprehension at all, never read it...but that Gutfeld goes there suggests that he actually has or some other POS told him that the point Frankl was making was that survivors survived because they had "utility"...and that this is "praising the human spirit" as opposed to condemning in the strongest terms the nazi death camp machine and what it did to people. As to human spirit he wrote from a psychological perspective of the importance of hope, of imagining a future beyond the immense suffering. He believed there were just two types of people, "decent" and "indecent". Nazi guards could be decent (a few) or indecent (most) as there could be decent or..indecent prisoners who preyed on other prisoners including providing "utility" as a kapo on behalf of the guards...

Yes, jeebus..."utility"...

Did you see the entire segment in which Gutfeld made that comment ? They weren't even discussing the Holocaust until another panel member made the analogy to the FL instruction.

Yes, I did. The Jewish woman commentator (the token liberal) said she couldn't speak with the same insight about what it would feel like to be a descendant of American slaves, but could analogize to a claim that the Holocaust benefited Jews in concentration camps...and Gutfeld quickly pulled Frankl out of his a-s with this claim of "utility", like the good little nazi wannabe that he is.

Seriously, you want to double down again?

No thanks. You are sick & paranoid. Name calling & misrepresenting what others say to fit your political biases.

Uh huh, yes, I'll call Gutfeld a nazi wannabe POS. Not paranoid at all to recognize it.
It's gross.

I don't think you are, but you refuse to dig harder and recognize the error.

You do understand that any Jews who survived did so only on a temporary basis, that all were slated for death?
ALL. No exceptions?

And that "utility" was the moral justification for the most inhumane possible medical experimentation on prisoners?
That "utility" was the moral justification for mass extermination?
That "utility" was the justification for slave labor/death camps?

It's a perversion of utilitarianism, which I don't hold to as is, but the Nazi's perversion of "utility" was throughout their efficiency in mass extermination.

This just laughable... Gutfeld is guilty of being a bad comic, I'll give that but he's no more "nazi" than you are mdlax.

Tossing that label around so recklessly depletes what a real nazi is and at same time dishonors actual victims of nazism.

Just being provocative or trolling OS... I hope.

Yes, he is definitely a bad comic.

And sure, the NAZIS did abominable atrocities that no one should in any way excuse.

But yeah, Gutfeld is a nazi wannabe, akin to Carlson, a-holes who traffic in the ideology of white christian nationalism knowing full well what their words and ideas mean to those groups. They're not simply stupid.

Gutfeld rushed to contradict the Jewish woman, pretending an "intellectual" grasp of a Jewish survivor's writing under the false guise that it refuted her point of empathy. The emphasis on "utility" and "usefulness" was no accident.

This is all part and parcel of the supremacist ideology and apologia for slavery, the Holocaust, etc. Gutfeld either knows it or darn well should have known it before going there.

Given what else I've seen of Gutfeld, I don't write him off as just having mean-spirited sense of "humor". I think he knows full well what signals he sends out, providing cover for the worst crap among us. We wants their eyeballs and ears, plays to them.

He has a very long history of such; this is far from an isolated incident.
And when someone tells you who they are, believe them.

But that's my opinion...you're free to give him a pass.

Yikes! Get a grip man. That beer summit you suggested on other thread looking dubious.

nah, you're not Gutfeld nor have I ever considered you as anything remotely akin to my low opinion of him.

My point is simply that if you do a little homework on Gutfeld, I think you'll find that he's considerably worse than just a bad comic.

[old salt]

You render rational discourse impossible. Zero perspective.
You're a princess with a pea beneath 20 matresses, needle in a hay stack.

Gutfeld was praising the human spirit, even under the most horrendous conditions.
I didn't want to have to post something this lengthy, but you asked for it.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/k ... urriculum/

Kamala Harris Is Brazenly Lying about Florida’s Slavery Curriculum

by CHARLES C. W. COOKE, July 21, 2023

In remarks Thursday, Harris blasted efforts in some states to ban books and “push forward revisionist history.”

“Just yesterday in the state of Florida, they decided middle school students will be taught that enslaved people benefited from slavery,” she said at a convention for the traditionally Black sorority Delta Sigma Theta Inc. “They insult us in an attempt to gaslight us, and we will not stand for it.”

This is a brazen lie. It’s an astonishing lie. It’s an evil lie. It is so untrue — so deliberately and cynically misleading — that, in a sensible political culture, Harris would be obligated to issue an apology. Instead, NBC confirms that she will repeat the lie today during a speech in Jacksonville.

Tell you what: explain why you feel the need to add that new section, OS? That it's 100% NEEDED to add that section, and that without it, these kids leave Florida schools uneducated.

Do that? And I'll agree with you. Make your case as to why it's so critical to add that part, that Florida needs to mandate BY LAW that teachers tells kids that that slavery taught slaves life skills.

And then when you make your case, explain why it wasn't popped into Holocaust instruction.

You have the floor.

Be specific. What "new section" are you referring to ?
The Holocaust was not addressed in the FL guidelines under discussion.
It's a diversion & deflection.

[old salt]

The National Review doth protest too much. Exactly what was the benefit that was greater than the harm done to the slave, that outweighed the forced relocation from his/her home, family, friends, culture, etc. The forced labor, the humiliation, the beatings, the amputation of limbs and various other "punishments". The removal of the slave from his/her African family only to be settled into a new family and having that taken away, broken up at the whim of the owner/master.

I really want to understand this great benefit.

Wait until they write the nice piece about the vacation spot with those plucky employees called Sun City.

I saw the black conservative on CNN that it was indeed fact that slaves learned skills that they could utilize after slavery that would enable them to he productive. He‘s an “intellectual”. I wondered why did he think that White people could learn these skills without slavery but black people could not? I then wondered if he understood the scope of accomplishments by black people around the planet throughout history without the “benefit”’of slavery? A blind spot. A lot of people have them. Right wing loves these guys.

Who's the black conservative you saw ? That's not what the scholar who drafted the guidelines says. He's trying to eliminate the blind spot to which you refer -- the perception that black people were helpless & not capable of anything but manual labor, which was espoused to help rationalize slavery.

[a fan]

You render rational discourse impossible. Zero perspective.
You're a princess with a pea beneath 20 matresses, needle in a hay stack.

Gutfeld was praising the human spirit, even under the most horrendous conditions.
I didn't want to have to post something this lengthy, but you asked for it.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/k ... urriculum/

Kamala Harris Is Brazenly Lying about Florida’s Slavery Curriculum

by CHARLES C. W. COOKE, July 21, 2023

In remarks Thursday, Harris blasted efforts in some states to ban books and “push forward revisionist history.”

“Just yesterday in the state of Florida, they decided middle school students will be taught that enslaved people benefited from slavery,” she said at a convention for the traditionally Black sorority Delta Sigma Theta Inc. “They insult us in an attempt to gaslight us, and we will not stand for it.”

This is a brazen lie. It’s an astonishing lie. It’s an evil lie. It is so untrue — so deliberately and cynically misleading — that, in a sensible political culture, Harris would be obligated to issue an apology. Instead, NBC confirms that she will repeat the lie today during a speech in Jacksonville.

Tell you what: explain why you feel the need to add that new section, OS? That it's 100% NEEDED to add that section, and that without it, these kids leave Florida schools uneducated.

Do that? And I'll agree with you. Make your case as to why it's so critical to add that part, that Florida needs to mandate BY LAW that teachers tells kids that that slavery taught slaves life skills.

And then when you make your case, explain why it wasn't popped into Holocaust instruction.

You have the floor.

Be specific. What "new section" are you referring to ?
The Holocaust was not addressed in the FL guidelines under discussion.
It's a diversion & deflection.

SS.68.AA.2 Analyze events that involved or affected Africans from the founding of the nation through Reconstruction.

With the new Benchmark clarification:

Clarification 1: instruction includes how slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit.



Here's the link for the minutes:

www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/20653/urlt/6-4.pdf

Tell me why it's important to add this new MANDATED instruction in all FLA public schools? Make your case.

And when you're done, tell us that if this is so important to tell students: why this isn't glass half full view mandated in other areas of FLA instruction on things like the Holocaust or Sex Ed?

[old salt]

You render rational discourse impossible. Zero perspective.
You're a princess with a pea beneath 20 matresses, needle in a hay stack.

Gutfeld was praising the human spirit, even under the most horrendous conditions.
I didn't want to have to post something this lengthy, but you asked for it.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/k ... urriculum/

Kamala Harris Is Brazenly Lying about Florida’s Slavery Curriculum

by CHARLES C. W. COOKE, July 21, 2023

In remarks Thursday, Harris blasted efforts in some states to ban books and “push forward revisionist history.”

“Just yesterday in the state of Florida, they decided middle school students will be taught that enslaved people benefited from slavery,” she said at a convention for the traditionally Black sorority Delta Sigma Theta Inc. “They insult us in an attempt to gaslight us, and we will not stand for it.”

This is a brazen lie. It’s an astonishing lie. It’s an evil lie. It is so untrue — so deliberately and cynically misleading — that, in a sensible political culture, Harris would be obligated to issue an apology. Instead, NBC confirms that she will repeat the lie today during a speech in Jacksonville.

Tell you what: explain why you feel the need to add that new section, OS? That it's 100% NEEDED to add that section, and that without it, these kids leave Florida schools uneducated.

Do that? And I'll agree with you. Make your case as to why it's so critical to add that part, that Florida needs to mandate BY LAW that teachers tells kids that that slavery taught slaves life skills.

And then when you make your case, explain why it wasn't popped into Holocaust instruction.

You have the floor.

Be specific. What "new section" are you referring to ?
The Holocaust was not addressed in the FL guidelines under discussion.
It's a diversion & deflection.

SS.68.AA.2 Analyze events that involved or affected Africans from the founding of the nation through Reconstruction.

With the new Benchmark clarification:

Clarification 1: instruction includes how slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit.



Here's the link for the minutes:

www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/20653/urlt/6-4.pdf

Tell me why it's important to add this new MANDATED instruction in all FLA public schools? Make your case.

And when you're done, tell us that if this is so important to tell students: why this isn't glass half full view mandated in other areas of FLA instruction on things like the Holocaust or Sex Ed?

As I just posted above in response to TLD -- what the scholar who drafted the guidelines says. He's trying to eliminate the blind spot to which you refer -- the perception that black people were helpless & not capable of anything but manual labor, which was espoused to help rationalize slavery.

[a fan]

You render rational discourse impossible. Zero perspective.
You're a princess with a pea beneath 20 matresses, needle in a hay stack.

Gutfeld was praising the human spirit, even under the most horrendous conditions.
I didn't want to have to post something this lengthy, but you asked for it.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/k ... urriculum/

Kamala Harris Is Brazenly Lying about Florida’s Slavery Curriculum

by CHARLES C. W. COOKE, July 21, 2023

In remarks Thursday, Harris blasted efforts in some states to ban books and “push forward revisionist history.”

“Just yesterday in the state of Florida, they decided middle school students will be taught that enslaved people benefited from slavery,” she said at a convention for the traditionally Black sorority Delta Sigma Theta Inc. “They insult us in an attempt to gaslight us, and we will not stand for it.”

This is a brazen lie. It’s an astonishing lie. It’s an evil lie. It is so untrue — so deliberately and cynically misleading — that, in a sensible political culture, Harris would be obligated to issue an apology. Instead, NBC confirms that she will repeat the lie today during a speech in Jacksonville.

Tell you what: explain why you feel the need to add that new section, OS? That it's 100% NEEDED to add that section, and that without it, these kids leave Florida schools uneducated.

Do that? And I'll agree with you. Make your case as to why it's so critical to add that part, that Florida needs to mandate BY LAW that teachers tells kids that that slavery taught slaves life skills.

And then when you make your case, explain why it wasn't popped into Holocaust instruction.

You have the floor.

Be specific. What "new section" are you referring to ?
The Holocaust was not addressed in the FL guidelines under discussion.
It's a diversion & deflection.

SS.68.AA.2 Analyze events that involved or affected Africans from the founding of the nation through Reconstruction.

With the new Benchmark clarification:

Clarification 1: instruction includes how slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit.



Here's the link for the minutes:

www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/20653/urlt/6-4.pdf

Tell me why it's important to add this new MANDATED instruction in all FLA public schools? Make your case.

And when you're done, tell us that if this is so important to tell students: why this isn't glass half full view mandated in other areas of FLA instruction on things like the Holocaust or Sex Ed?

As I just posted above in response to TLD -- what the scholar who drafted the guidelines says. He's trying to eliminate the blind spot to which you refer -- the perception that black people were helpless & not capable of anything but manual labor, which was espoused to help rationalize slavery.

Riiiiight. So...why didn't he write THAT?

Here. Let me do it: Teach students that blacks of the era had many talents that were suppressed by slave owners, and instead, they were forced to perform the cruelest and most menial of manual labor.

Where is the exact quote from this supposed author? Because I cannot believe that he is THAT bad at what he does.

And where is he and DeSantis being grown ups and saying "yeah, we did an AWFUL job of conveying what we actually meant"? Gotta quote with that mea culpa?

[old salt]

You render rational discourse impossible. Zero perspective.
You're a princess with a pea beneath 20 matresses, needle in a hay stack.

Gutfeld was praising the human spirit, even under the most horrendous conditions.
I didn't want to have to post something this lengthy, but you asked for it.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/k ... urriculum/

Kamala Harris Is Brazenly Lying about Florida’s Slavery Curriculum

by CHARLES C. W. COOKE, July 21, 2023

In remarks Thursday, Harris blasted efforts in some states to ban books and “push forward revisionist history.”

“Just yesterday in the state of Florida, they decided middle school students will be taught that enslaved people benefited from slavery,” she said at a convention for the traditionally Black sorority Delta Sigma Theta Inc. “They insult us in an attempt to gaslight us, and we will not stand for it.”

This is a brazen lie. It’s an astonishing lie. It’s an evil lie. It is so untrue — so deliberately and cynically misleading — that, in a sensible political culture, Harris would be obligated to issue an apology. Instead, NBC confirms that she will repeat the lie today during a speech in Jacksonville.

Tell you what: explain why you feel the need to add that new section, OS? That it's 100% NEEDED to add that section, and that without it, these kids leave Florida schools uneducated.

Do that? And I'll agree with you. Make your case as to why it's so critical to add that part, that Florida needs to mandate BY LAW that teachers tells kids that that slavery taught slaves life skills.

And then when you make your case, explain why it wasn't popped into Holocaust instruction.

You have the floor.

Be specific. What "new section" are you referring to ?
The Holocaust was not addressed in the FL guidelines under discussion.
It's a diversion & deflection.

SS.68.AA.2 Analyze events that involved or affected Africans from the founding of the nation through Reconstruction.

With the new Benchmark clarification:

Clarification 1: instruction includes how slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit.



Here's the link for the minutes:

www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/20653/urlt/6-4.pdf

Tell me why it's important to add this new MANDATED instruction in all FLA public schools? Make your case.

And when you're done, tell us that if this is so important to tell students: why this isn't glass half full view mandated in other areas of FLA instruction on things like the Holocaust or Sex Ed?

As I just posted above in response to TLD -- what the scholar who drafted the guidelines says. He's trying to eliminate the blind spot to which you refer -- the perception that black people were helpless & not capable of anything but manual labor, which was espoused to help rationalize slavery.

Riiiiight. So...why didn't he write THAT?

Here. Let me do it: Teach students that blacks of the era had many talents that were suppressed by slave owners, and instead, they were forced to perform the cruelest and most menial of manual labor.

Where is the exact quote from this supposed author? Because I cannot believe that he is THAT bad at what he does.

And where is he and DeSantis being grown ups and saying "yeah, we did an AWFUL job of conveying what we actually meant"? Gotta quote with that mea culpa?

https://twitter.com/AlexLanfran/status/ ... 7101507594

[a fan]

You render rational discourse impossible. Zero perspective.
You're a princess with a pea beneath 20 matresses, needle in a hay stack.

Gutfeld was praising the human spirit, even under the most horrendous conditions.
I didn't want to have to post something this lengthy, but you asked for it.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/k ... urriculum/

Kamala Harris Is Brazenly Lying about Florida’s Slavery Curriculum

by CHARLES C. W. COOKE, July 21, 2023

In remarks Thursday, Harris blasted efforts in some states to ban books and “push forward revisionist history.”

“Just yesterday in the state of Florida, they decided middle school students will be taught that enslaved people benefited from slavery,” she said at a convention for the traditionally Black sorority Delta Sigma Theta Inc. “They insult us in an attempt to gaslight us, and we will not stand for it.”

This is a brazen lie. It’s an astonishing lie. It’s an evil lie. It is so untrue — so deliberately and cynically misleading — that, in a sensible political culture, Harris would be obligated to issue an apology. Instead, NBC confirms that she will repeat the lie today during a speech in Jacksonville.

Tell you what: explain why you feel the need to add that new section, OS? That it's 100% NEEDED to add that section, and that without it, these kids leave Florida schools uneducated.

Do that? And I'll agree with you. Make your case as to why it's so critical to add that part, that Florida needs to mandate BY LAW that teachers tells kids that that slavery taught slaves life skills.

And then when you make your case, explain why it wasn't popped into Holocaust instruction.

You have the floor.

Be specific. What "new section" are you referring to ?
The Holocaust was not addressed in the FL guidelines under discussion.
It's a diversion & deflection.

SS.68.AA.2 Analyze events that involved or affected Africans from the founding of the nation through Reconstruction.

With the new Benchmark clarification:

Clarification 1: instruction includes how slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit.



Here's the link for the minutes:

www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/20653/urlt/6-4.pdf

Tell me why it's important to add this new MANDATED instruction in all FLA public schools? Make your case.

And when you're done, tell us that if this is so important to tell students: why this isn't glass half full view mandated in other areas of FLA instruction on things like the Holocaust or Sex Ed?

As I just posted above in response to TLD -- what the scholar who drafted the guidelines says. He's trying to eliminate the blind spot to which you refer -- the perception that black people were helpless & not capable of anything but manual labor, which was espoused to help rationalize slavery.

Riiiiight. So...why didn't he write THAT?

Here. Let me do it: Teach students that blacks of the era had many talents that were suppressed by slave owners, and instead, they were forced to perform the cruelest and most menial of manual labor.

Where is the exact quote from this supposed author? Because I cannot believe that he is THAT bad at what he does.

And where is he and DeSantis being grown ups and saying "yeah, we did an AWFUL job of conveying what we actually meant"? Gotta quote with that mea culpa?

https://twitter.com/AlexLanfran/status/ ... 7101507594

What are these "scholars"----five years old? Put me in front of them for five minutes. They will realize what complete ass*s they are being.


In what world does the sentence " instruction includes how slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit." Convey ANY of the ideas in that long paragraph they cited?

I cited the DIRECT STATUTE, OS, from the DOE itself. There is NO MENTION of the clarifications in this statement ANYWHERE in that document.

Take a look at the document that you yourself cited, OS. How many names and places were cited in other sections? A ton.

How about this new section, then? Any mention of the names of blacksmiths, shoemakers, tailors and teachers that these geniuses are NOW citing in a statement? Nope. So FFS, OF COURSE folks are upset. Geez.


Nice to see what they world has come to. They can't just admit how poorly worded that was, and how much freaking context they left out.....and apologize for creating a mess over nothing?

Protip: Take the Statement and put THAT into law, and next time, don't do such a sorry attempt of putting your ideas on paper. Yet another fake problem solved. Geez.

[old salt]

You render rational discourse impossible. Zero perspective.
You're a princess with a pea beneath 20 matresses, needle in a hay stack.

Gutfeld was praising the human spirit, even under the most horrendous conditions.
I didn't want to have to post something this lengthy, but you asked for it.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/k ... urriculum/

Kamala Harris Is Brazenly Lying about Florida’s Slavery Curriculum

by CHARLES C. W. COOKE, July 21, 2023

In remarks Thursday, Harris blasted efforts in some states to ban books and “push forward revisionist history.”

“Just yesterday in the state of Florida, they decided middle school students will be taught that enslaved people benefited from slavery,” she said at a convention for the traditionally Black sorority Delta Sigma Theta Inc. “They insult us in an attempt to gaslight us, and we will not stand for it.”

This is a brazen lie. It’s an astonishing lie. It’s an evil lie. It is so untrue — so deliberately and cynically misleading — that, in a sensible political culture, Harris would be obligated to issue an apology. Instead, NBC confirms that she will repeat the lie today during a speech in Jacksonville.

Tell you what: explain why you feel the need to add that new section, OS? That it's 100% NEEDED to add that section, and that without it, these kids leave Florida schools uneducated.

Do that? And I'll agree with you. Make your case as to why it's so critical to add that part, that Florida needs to mandate BY LAW that teachers tells kids that that slavery taught slaves life skills.

And then when you make your case, explain why it wasn't popped into Holocaust instruction.

You have the floor.

Be specific. What "new section" are you referring to ?
The Holocaust was not addressed in the FL guidelines under discussion.
It's a diversion & deflection.

SS.68.AA.2 Analyze events that involved or affected Africans from the founding of the nation through Reconstruction.

With the new Benchmark clarification:

Clarification 1: instruction includes how slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit.



Here's the link for the minutes:

www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/20653/urlt/6-4.pdf

Tell me why it's important to add this new MANDATED instruction in all FLA public schools? Make your case.

And when you're done, tell us that if this is so important to tell students: why this isn't glass half full view mandated in other areas of FLA instruction on things like the Holocaust or Sex Ed?

As I just posted above in response to TLD -- what the scholar who drafted the guidelines says. He's trying to eliminate the blind spot to which you refer -- the perception that black people were helpless & not capable of anything but manual labor, which was espoused to help rationalize slavery.

Riiiiight. So...why didn't he write THAT?

Here. Let me do it: Teach students that blacks of the era had many talents that were suppressed by slave owners, and instead, they were forced to perform the cruelest and most menial of manual labor.

Where is the exact quote from this supposed author? Because I cannot believe that he is THAT bad at what he does.

And where is he and DeSantis being grown ups and saying "yeah, we did an AWFUL job of conveying what we actually meant"? Gotta quote with that mea culpa?

https://twitter.com/AlexLanfran/status/ ... 7101507594

What are these "scholars"----five years old? Put me in front of them for five minutes. They will realize what complete ass*s they are being.

In what world does the sentence " instruction includes how slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit." Convey ANY of the ideas in that long paragraph they cited?

I cited the DIRECT STATUTE, OS, from the DOE itself. There is NO MENTION of the clarifications in this statement ANYWHERE in that document.

Take a look at the document that you yourself cited, OS. How many names and places were cited in other sections? A ton.

How about this new section, then? Any mention of the names of blacksmiths, shoemakers, tailors and teachers that these geniuses are NOW citing in a statement? Nope. So FFS, OF COURSE folks are upset. Geez.

Nice to see what they world has come to. They can't just admit how poorly worded that was, and how much freaking context they left out.....and apologize for creating a mess over nothing?

Protip: Take the Statement and put THAT into law, and next time, don't do such a sorry attempt of putting your ideas on paper. Yet another fake problem solved. Geez.

They were the 2 scholars who headed the group of academics who drafted the guidelines.

The names they cited are of former slaves already widely included in the black history courses.

Nothing they could write would have escaped fly-specking of something by partisan demagogues.

Be honest -- if you were reading for the first time that entire lengthy list of instructions which I posted, would that one instruction have triggered you ?

[a fan]

They were the 2 scholars who headed the group of academics who drafted the guidelines.

The names they cited are of former slaves already widely included in the black history courses.

Nothing they could write would have escaped fly-specking of something by partisan demagogues.

Buffalo bagels. Just a flat out lie. Protip: learn to write clearly, ESPECIALLY when you're writing law. Or dont whine like a five year old when the people who have to follow these laws interpret your new law "incorrectly".

The already told you how they could have escaped fly specking: Put the Statement that they released after the fact INTO THE LAW.

Boom. Done. This isn't the right or left wing's fault or mistake. This was 100% on some slow-witted scholars who don't know how to write laws clearly.

Don't want spin? Do your freaking jobs, and put your intent and thoughts clearly and concisely on to the document.

Geez, OS. I could follow that law to the letter by saying to my students "well, for some slaves, slavery was like a jobs training program, so it was all good.". And that would meet the standard that they put into law. Gee, ya think they need to rewrite that section, and put what they ACTUALLY want taught in clear English? Naaaaah. We're all set here. Don't change a word.

Be honest -- if you were reading for the first time that entire lengthy list of instructions which I posted, would that one instruction have triggered you ?

Here ya go. I did EXACTLY what someone who doesn't believe partisan media when he sees it. You should be tipping your hat for how I handled this.

I didn't believe it when it was making the media rounds. Thought "oh, this must be more partisan nonsense spin". So naturally, I looked up what was ACTUALLY being proposed, expecting Pete Brown nonsense from the libs.

There you go. Skeptical. DIdn't believe what the Dems were claiming. Read the statute for myself, instead of a summary from "some guy on the internet". Just like you're supposed to do.

So...how about "nice job, a fan"?

[Typical Lax Dad]

The National Review doth protest too much. Exactly what was the benefit that was greater than the harm done to the slave, that outweighed the forced relocation from his/her home, family, friends, culture, etc. The forced labor, the humiliation, the beatings, the amputation of limbs and various other "punishments". The removal of the slave from his/her African family only to be settled into a new family and having that taken away, broken up at the whim of the owner/master.

I really want to understand this great benefit.

Wait until they write the nice piece about the vacation spot with those plucky employees called Sun City.

I saw the black conservative on CNN that it was indeed fact that slaves learned skills that they could utilize after slavery that would enable them to he productive. He‘s an “intellectual”. I wondered why did he think that White people could learn these skills without slavery but black people could not? I then wondered if he understood the scope of accomplishments by black people around the planet throughout history without the “benefit”’of slavery? A blind spot. A lot of people have them. Right wing loves these guys.

Who's the black conservative you saw ? That's not what the scholar who drafted the guidelines says. He's trying to eliminate the blind spot to which you refer -- the perception that black people were helpless & not capable of anything but manual labor, which was espoused to help rationalize slavery.

Thanks for the heads up.

[old salt]

I didn't believe it when it was making the media rounds. Thought "oh, this must be more partisan nonsense spin". So naturally, I looked up what was ACTUALLY being proposed, expecting Pete Brown nonsense from the libs.

There you go. Skeptical. DIdn't believe what the Dems were claiming. Read the statute for myself, instead of a summary from "some guy on the internet". Just like you're supposed to do.

So...how about "nice job, a fan"?

I don't recall you objecting to that one specific instruction that included "personal benefit" that triggered all your fellow demagogues

[a fan]

I didn't believe it when it was making the media rounds. Thought "oh, this must be more partisan nonsense spin". So naturally, I looked up what was ACTUALLY being proposed, expecting Pete Brown nonsense from the libs.

There you go. Skeptical. DIdn't believe what the Dems were claiming. Read the statute for myself, instead of a summary from "some guy on the internet". Just like you're supposed to do.

So...how about "nice job, a fan"?

I don't recall you objecting to that one specific instruction that included "personal benefit" that triggered all your fellow demagogues

Fellow demagogues?

You SERIOUSLY can't just admit the the sentence that made it into law is NOTHING like the Statement they released? You HONESTLY can't just say: "geez, that was a sh*t job of conveying that complex idea into law, they should really rewrite that law to fit the idea they want teachers to teach"?

I IGNORED what anyone said, and read the statute for myself, OS. And drew my own simple, logical conclusion. No media. No spin.

Just me and the text. Umberto Eco would have been proud. You should be, too.

[old salt]

I didn't believe it when it was making the media rounds. Thought "oh, this must be more partisan nonsense spin". So naturally, I looked up what was ACTUALLY being proposed, expecting Pete Brown nonsense from the libs.

There you go. Skeptical. DIdn't believe what the Dems were claiming. Read the statute for myself, instead of a summary from "some guy on the internet". Just like you're supposed to do.

So...how about "nice job, a fan"?

I don't recall you objecting to that one specific instruction that included "personal benefit" that triggered all your fellow demagogues

Fellow demagogues?

You SERIOUSLY can't just admit the the sentence that made it into law is NOTHING like the Statement they released? You HONESTLY can't just say: "geez, that was a sh*t job of conveying that complex idea into law, they should really rewrite that law to fit the idea they want teachers to teach"?

I IGNORED what anyone said, and read the statute for myself, OS. And drew my own simple, logical conclusion. No media. No spin.

Just me and the text. Umberto Eco would have been proud. You should be, too.

Did you notice that one specific instruction which included "personal benefit"
& were you outraged by just that one instruction, before it became a matter of public debate ?

[a fan]

I didn't believe it when it was making the media rounds. Thought "oh, this must be more partisan nonsense spin". So naturally, I looked up what was ACTUALLY being proposed, expecting Pete Brown nonsense from the libs.

There you go. Skeptical. DIdn't believe what the Dems were claiming. Read the statute for myself, instead of a summary from "some guy on the internet". Just like you're supposed to do.

So...how about "nice job, a fan"?

I don't recall you objecting to that one specific instruction that included "personal benefit" that triggered all your fellow demagogues

Fellow demagogues?

You SERIOUSLY can't just admit the the sentence that made it into law is NOTHING like the Statement they released? You HONESTLY can't just say: "geez, that was a sh*t job of conveying that complex idea into law, they should really rewrite that law to fit the idea they want teachers to teach"?

I IGNORED what anyone said, and read the statute for myself, OS. And drew my own simple, logical conclusion. No media. No spin.

Just me and the text. Umberto Eco would have been proud. You should be, too.

Did you notice that one specific instruction which included "personal benefit"
& were you outraged by just that one instruction, before it became a matter of public debate ?

I noticed every word! Read each one!

And as I just told you: I IGNORED the public debate, and formed my own opinion based on what was ACTUALLY in the law.

And the law reads NOTHING like the statement they issued later. These scholars should be embarrassed that there is ZERO resemblance between their Statement, and the actual freaking law.

Because teachers can ignore their statement. But they can NOT ignore the law. Shame on these authors for not pulling up a seat at the big boy table, setting their Ivory Tower nonsense aside, and FIXING THE D*MN LAW to match how their Statement read.........

[old salt]

I didn't believe it when it was making the media rounds. Thought "oh, this must be more partisan nonsense spin". So naturally, I looked up what was ACTUALLY being proposed, expecting Pete Brown nonsense from the libs.

There you go. Skeptical. DIdn't believe what the Dems were claiming. Read the statute for myself, instead of a summary from "some guy on the internet". Just like you're supposed to do.

So...how about "nice job, a fan"?

I don't recall you objecting to that one specific instruction that included "personal benefit" that triggered all your fellow demagogues

Fellow demagogues?

You SERIOUSLY can't just admit the the sentence that made it into law is NOTHING like the Statement they released? You HONESTLY can't just say: "geez, that was a sh*t job of conveying that complex idea into law, they should really rewrite that law to fit the idea they want teachers to teach"?

I IGNORED what anyone said, and read the statute for myself, OS. And drew my own simple, logical conclusion. No media. No spin.

Just me and the text. Umberto Eco would have been proud. You should be, too.

Did you notice that one specific instruction which included "personal benefit"
& were you outraged by just that one instruction, before it became a matter of public debate ?

I noticed every word! Read each one!

And as I just told you: I IGNORED the public debate, and formed my own opinion based on what was ACTUALLY in the law.

And the law reads NOTHING like the statement they issued later. These scholars should be embarrassed that there is ZERO resemblance between their Statement, and the actual freaking law.

Because teachers can ignore their statement. But they can NOT ignore the law. Shame on these authors for not pulling up a seat at the big boy table, setting their Ivory Tower nonsense aside, and FIXING THE D*MN LAW to match how their Statement read.........

Yes. You read every word. When you read the Instruction which contained "personal benefit" did it stand out to you as particularly egregious compared to the rest of the guidelines, before you heard any other critique highlighting that specific Instruction ? Did it immediately trigger your analogy to the Holocaust before you read or heard it elsewhere ?

Were you alerted to that Instruction & looking for it in your first reading of the entire document ?