Johns Hopkins 2024

[Sagittarius A*]

So I count 9 posted Thank yous to Grad student/Senior players from the team's offical Instagram/Twitter account - Marcille/Mazzone/Narewski/Krampf/Versfeld/Caracciolo/Handsor/Ruddy/Glassmeyer

I think it is pretty well thought that Angelus and Szuluk are returning

That leaves 3 - I thought there was an official thanks to Hawley but I do not see it. They posted a clip after the season of him getting a tough ground ball but there was zero commentary
The other two are Degnon - gotta give PM extra points for trying - I'd love to hear the argument that was crafted - has to be a long shot

And the final one is Jaronski - Even with Aviles - I would love to see him back

I think the roster math is thus:
49 -9 (confirmed departures) - 1 (Wong transfer) - 2 assumed deparures (Hawley/Degnon) + 4 Transfers in +17 (incoming class) = 58 - maybe 57 depending on Jaronski
Nominally 58 is not great - but 2 factors make it slightly more palatable - close to 20 Jays will fly away after next season and the lost class created by the coaching transfer

I'm not going to google this. But in the 70s/80s rosters were 30s ish?, jumped to the 40s in the aughts and went to the 50s/60s in the 10s/20s. Why? And admissions is cool with an extra 2-3 kids a year coming in through the lax vip entrance?

I seem to remember rosters of about ~35 or so. They would also play a lot of players. They would play 4-5 attackmen and 3 midfields regularly. Plus there were no limits on poles, so a lot of defensemen would see the field. They also had a lot of serious talent back then too, so not a lot of dropoff between midfields or attackmen.

[HopFan16]

There are three big reasons IMO:

1. The number of games. Hopkins played like 10-12 regular season games in the 70s and 80s. The Jays played 15 in 2023. More games necessitates a deeper roster.

2. Incidence of ACL tears and other major lower-body injuries has increased since then. More season-ending injuries, more players needed.

3. The talent pool is much larger. How many kids are playing lacrosse today compared to 1980? If you don't make room on your roster for all the talent that's out there, someone else will.

TLDR: More games, more injuries, more good players available. And most schools/athletic departments have more money (inflation-adjusted) to accommodate them.

[a fan]

2. Incidence of ACL tears and other major lower-body injuries has increased since then. More season-ending injuries, more players needed.

Blows me away that this is true.

[Typical Lax Dad]

2. Incidence of ACL tears and other major lower-body injuries has increased since then. More season-ending injuries, more players needed.

Blows me away that this is true.

https://www.uclahealth.org/news/acl-tea ... 0increases.

[MDlaxfan76]

2. Incidence of ACL tears and other major lower-body injuries has increased since then. More season-ending injuries, more players needed.

Blows me away that this is true.

https://www.uclahealth.org/news/acl-tea ... 0increases.

over worked.

[The Orfling]

2. Incidence of ACL tears and other major lower-body injuries has increased since then. More season-ending injuries, more players needed.

Blows me away that this is true.

https://www.uclahealth.org/news/acl-tea ... 0increases.

over worked.

I would think an even bigger issue is the ubiquity of turf fields.

[MDlaxfan76]

2. Incidence of ACL tears and other major lower-body injuries has increased since then. More season-ending injuries, more players needed.

Blows me away that this is true.

https://www.uclahealth.org/news/acl-tea ... 0increases.

over worked.

I would think an even bigger issue is the ubiquity of turf fields.

Maybe, but year round sports, with many, many more reps, mostly without actual training balance is far more likely the primary reason why the incidence is so much higher. We never had this number of reps...and each rep contributes to the opportunity to make a cut that strains that knee just one more time the wrong way, one more stress...

But could be turf too.

[51percentcorn]

While everything '16 says is true - there's really only one reason for the swelling of rosters.
115,000 to probably over 120,000 male high school kids are playing lax - there are what? 72-73 DI programs? That's what - about 3500 spots if about 50 per program? SO there are way more kids that want the experience even if it possibly means they don't play as much. And no matter where you fall on the thread "Is lacrosse an aristocratic sport" there is undoubtedly wealth connected to lacrosse and some parents are very fortunate to be able to pay the way without scholarship money or probably need money. Google "Tuition The Salisbury School" The first number that pops up is $70,500. Upper school boarding at the Hun School is $73,000 - Upper Day is $50.000. SO you simply have more players that want to try to play and some of them provide almost a free option. With specialization - the magic number of players appearing in a competitive game has undoubtedly increased - you didn't NEED 4 SSDMs back in the day but it was still probably 20 or so.

[coda]

2. Incidence of ACL tears and other major lower-body injuries has increased since then. More season-ending injuries, more players needed.

Blows me away that this is true.

https://www.uclahealth.org/news/acl-tea ... 0increases.

over worked.

Might be the other way. I could see less free play time being an issue and/or specialization. This is teen and preteen. Does not explain College lacrosse rosters exploding. Interesting soccer is emphasized and girls are twice as likely likely to injure an ACL.

[MDlaxfan76]

While everything '16 says is true - there's really only one reason for the swelling of rosters.
115,000 to probably over 120,000 male high school kids are playing lax - there are what? 72-73 DI programs? That's what - about 3500 spots if about 50 per program? SO there are way more kids that want the experience even if it possibly means they don't play as much. And no matter where you fall on the thread "Is lacrosse an aristocratic sport" there is undoubtedly wealth connected to lacrosse and some parents are very fortunate to be able to pay the way without scholarship money or probably need money. Google "Tuition The Salisbury School" The first number that pops up is $70,500. Upper school boarding at the Hun School is $73,000 - Upper Day is $50.000. SO you simply have more players that want to try to play and some of them provide almost a free option. With specialization - the magic number of players appearing in a competitive game has undoubtedly increased - you didn't NEED 4 SSDMs back in the day but it was still probably 20 or so.

Does that really explain it at the more selective D1 schools?
And in the face of Title IX ?

Don't they have plenty of full pay applicants?

I see how that encourages DIII programs to add lax...

[MDlaxfan76]

2. Incidence of ACL tears and other major lower-body injuries has increased since then. More season-ending injuries, more players needed.

Blows me away that this is true.

https://www.uclahealth.org/news/acl-tea ... 0increases.

over worked.

Might be the other way. This is teen and preteen. Does not explain College lacrosse rosters exploding. Interesting soccer is emphasized and girls are twice as likely likely to injure an ACL.

ohhh, I wasn't suggesting that injuries are what is causing/justifying swollen rosters. Just that a big driver of the injuries is over work, lots more reps overall, more stress on growing bodies.

I do understand why, for competitive reasons, rosters 40-45 make sense over 30-35, but I don't see the return on 50+, 60+

[Typical Lax Dad]

2. Incidence of ACL tears and other major lower-body injuries has increased since then. More season-ending injuries, more players needed.

Blows me away that this is true.

https://www.uclahealth.org/news/acl-tea ... 0increases.

over worked.

Might be the other way. This is teen and preteen. Does not explain College lacrosse rosters exploding. Interesting soccer is emphasized and girls are twice as likely likely to injure an ACL.

ohhh, I wasn't suggesting that injuries are what is causing/justifying swollen rosters. Just that a big driver of the injuries is over work, lots more reps overall, more stress on growing bodies.

I do understand why, for competitive reasons, rosters 40-45 make sense over 30-35, but I don't see the return on 50+, 60+

I settled on 44-48. In order to be competitive, you really need quality depth and with injuries, 35 players to start really isn’t enough. You could easily end up with 28 players. Two concussions, a wrist, a shoulder, two knee injuries, a high ankle sprain…..

[MDlaxfan76]

2. Incidence of ACL tears and other major lower-body injuries has increased since then. More season-ending injuries, more players needed.

Blows me away that this is true.

https://www.uclahealth.org/news/acl-tea ... 0increases.

over worked.

Might be the other way. This is teen and preteen. Does not explain College lacrosse rosters exploding. Interesting soccer is emphasized and girls are twice as likely likely to injure an ACL.

ohhh, I wasn't suggesting that injuries are what is causing/justifying swollen rosters. Just that a big driver of the injuries is over work, lots more reps overall, more stress on growing bodies.

I do understand why, for competitive reasons, rosters 40-45 make sense over 30-35, but I don't see the return on 50+, 60+

I settled on 44-48. In order to be competitive, you really need quality depth and with injuries, 35 players to start really isn’t enough. You could easily end up with 28 players. Two concussions, a wrist, a shoulder, two knee injuries, a high ankle sprain…..

Yes, topping out at high 40's...mid 40's is workable and can keep everyone's head in it. Injuries are indeed a factor and I want coaches to not demand/push/allow players to play with injuries not yet fully healed.

[coda]

2. Incidence of ACL tears and other major lower-body injuries has increased since then. More season-ending injuries, more players needed.

Blows me away that this is true.

https://www.uclahealth.org/news/acl-tea ... 0increases.

over worked.

Might be the other way. This is teen and preteen. Does not explain College lacrosse rosters exploding. Interesting soccer is emphasized and girls are twice as likely likely to injure an ACL.

ohhh, I wasn't suggesting that injuries are what is causing/justifying swollen rosters. Just that a big driver of the injuries is over work, lots more reps overall, more stress on growing bodies.

I do understand why, for competitive reasons, rosters 40-45 make sense over 30-35, but I don't see the return on 50+, 60+

Most the ACC is carrying 50+ players. (Duke 51 on the official roster, UVA - 49, and Cuse 53, ND 58, UNC - 60)

I was suggesting that the reason more youth athletes are tearing their ACLs is due to more sedentary lifestyles and specialization compared to 20-30 years ago. Mobility and muscle development (proper) can greatly reduce injuries. Free play that used to be so common, does not happen as much. That used to stress the body in multiple ways and directions. Lot of kids are sitting around the house and just hitting a single sport, that may not give the variety of different stresses on the body to develop a well rounded body. I do not think kids are more active today compared to the 70s/80s, when many kids grew up coming home from school and went outside until the street lights went on. That is just my theory on the matter

[MDlaxfan76]

2. Incidence of ACL tears and other major lower-body injuries has increased since then. More season-ending injuries, more players needed.

Blows me away that this is true.

https://www.uclahealth.org/news/acl-tea ... 0increases.

over worked.

Might be the other way. This is teen and preteen. Does not explain College lacrosse rosters exploding. Interesting soccer is emphasized and girls are twice as likely likely to injure an ACL.

ohhh, I wasn't suggesting that injuries are what is causing/justifying swollen rosters. Just that a big driver of the injuries is over work, lots more reps overall, more stress on growing bodies.

I do understand why, for competitive reasons, rosters 40-45 make sense over 30-35, but I don't see the return on 50+, 60+

Most the ACC is carrying 50+ players.

I was suggesting that the reason more youth athletes are tearing their ACLs is due to more sedentary lifestyles and specialization compared to 20-30 years ago. Mobility and muscle development (proper) can greatly reduce injuries. Free play that used to be so common, does not happen as much. That used to stress the body in multiple ways and directions. Lot of kids are sitting around the house and just hitting a single sport, that may not give the variety of different stresses on the body to develop a well rounded body. I do not think kids are more active today compared to the 70s/80s, when many kids grew up coming home from school and went outside until the street lights went on. That is just my theory on the matter

mmm, I don't know the numbers on the youth stuff re sedentary kids, but I certainly saw lots of seemingly well tuned athletes blowing out knees, hips, shoulders, etc, concussions,...not remotely "sedentary" kids. Most playing more than one sport, but way, way more intensively, year round than was our experience growing up.

I do agree that playing one sport, same motions repetitively is likely even worse, but I think the intensity, the number of reps is what's happening to the athletes we're discussing...not the couch potatoes who get up occasionally and rip something.

My son played youth rec in soccer and then rec and school MS football, basketball, baseball and lacrosse; inter club golf and tennis in summer...then he decided to play volleyball and squash in HS, lax in spring, with club in summer, a couple tourneys in fall, winter box...plus regular physical training regimen year round. Serious.

Meniscus tear as sophomore in HS, surgery, hip labrum as senior, surgery freshman year in college, 3 concussions in college (finishing career) and shoulder labrum, no surgery. He didn't seem that unusual, as others went down as well. Some bounced back with rehab, others ended careers (two friends by concussion)

By contrast, playing football, wrestling, lax...and most of the other sports earlier, I had a total of one freak shoulder separation playing touch football...switched to cross country my senior year as result. No injuries in college, lax. Plenty of bruises!

But I wasn't playing these sports year round, had serious time off from heavy training. Summer was some tennis, one, maybe two nights a week of lax games, no practices, some workouts and running but not a lot. A ditch digging job, one year an 8 week canoe trip in northern Canada...great conditioning for wrestling...

Summer ball was maybe 10-20 games all summer? These days, kids can be playing that in two tournament weekends...and some kids are playing two club sports, meaning they can be overlapping all of this for 6-8 tourneys or showcases...so many more reps...

I just see the total # of reps the serious athletes are doing as increasing eventual likelihood of injuries...especially as bodies are growing, changing.

And yes, I think the ACC #'s are way excessive in some cases...but I'm doubting it's because of the full pay tuitions, rather I think it's 'arms race' mentality.

[OCanada]

Anecdotally i have been told numbers of high school platers are down in sone places bcs of demograpgics. I fon’t have numbers or degree…..

[wgdsr]

Anecdotally i have been told numbers of high school platers are down in sone places bcs of demograpgics. I fon’t have numbers or degree…..

participation has flatlined since 2018. youth and high school. that's primarily because our sports society, and lacrosse has followed suit, has emphasized year round and club sport to greater and greater degree. tough to tell if demograpgics is cause or effect. means lot of established areas have matured and are in some cases declining even as there are green shoots in frontier places. even cali has now matured.

and so we've (and that includes usa lacrosse) given up our growth engine that has been the mantra for so long.

[OCanada]

I intended to reference the demographics if high school enrollment in general that would result in fewer players. Sorry for the confusion.

[jhu06]

stevens usually does season recaps/lookaheads in june with things like "expected losses to graduation" but they changed the format this year to whatever this is. I'm not sure when ours will drop, when it was written or if it will have anything new that we haven't already chewed and re chewed here a bunch.
https://www.usalaxmagazine.com/college/ ... rojections

[wgdsr]

I intended to reference the demographics if high school enrollment in general that would result in fewer players. Sorry for the confusion.

so as enrollment in public school has been consistently been at about 50 million, 30% of which are in high school, do you mean less white students?