Progressive Ideology

[MDlaxfan76]

All of the money in the world will be misspent unless the underserved institute a change from within.

Private School tuition disagrees with you. How much is Gliman and St. Pauls? $35k and $65k, respectively (St. pauls includes room and board). And don't forget to add in the fat donations those schools get from rich donors that keeps that tuition down. So there's your free market price for the kind of education you and I want for everyone. Start there. Baltimore Public, by comparison, is at $16K.

In Denver, you get 20% more money working as a STARTING burger flipper at In and Out burger than you get as a starting Colorado teacher. In what world is that going to lead to top notch people getting into teaching?

How about we try funding schools fully before we decide it doesn't work?

They should not put up with the existing educational system. How? Stop voting for the people protecting it from accountability.

It's not the leaders, Get it to X. It's the voters. They don't want to invest in kids in most of America.

Take a look at the public school districts where they DO believe in it. Top of the line facilities and teacher's salaries, and taxes to pay for it.....of course, these are all rich districts with epic homes that are taxed to pay for it all.

That said, I agree with you completely that teacher's need the power to expel kids, and the State needs the power to sh*tcan bad teachers and administrators. And the State needs to fund a place for these kids that are expelled to go.

Privates get better results because they select. Would not be surprised, however, if public salaries are higher than private.

The system I object to is the one that has gotten away from a classical education like the Calvert School curriculum or the one I had in Baltimore County. Too much socio-emotional and too little life skills.

Also way too little civics. People should understand their form of government and everyone's responsibilities and rights in that system.

Well, at Calvert and Gilman, with which I have experience as both as a student (long ago) and shortly ago as a parent, they teach a very broad curriculum, building blocks of learning so as to productively address a myriad of subjects inclusive of "civics". And yes, they spend a ton of attention on emotional learning. Big emphasis.

But it ain't simply about "selecting" smart kids, which, yes, they do...it's also that they spend immensely more in every aspect of the educational experience...there's no question as to whether enrichment activities are available, art, music, sports, etc...no funding questions as to whether these groups can afford top of the line coaches and teachers, travel, uniforms, etc...and obviously the student to teacher ration is much different than the average public school in Baltimore, the teaching salaries much better, the food better, the books and school supplies are much better (public school teachers often come out of their own pocket just to make sure their kids have pencils and paper)...and then there's technology...all of which costs 1.5-2X per student as the published list price for a full pay student...endowment and annual giving covers this...

And oh yeah, part of that "selection" is the benefit of families that are directly involved with their kid's education, reading and discussing books, current affairs...and providing good nutrition at home.

The truth is that if we actually wanted an equal educational opportunity for all, we'd need to spend MORE than what is spent by these schools.

[a fan]

Privates get better results because they select.

You're speculating here. Cut tuition to $15K ala Baltimore. Or worse, $9K like lots of rural counties. Step back and watch it fall apart.

The system I object to is the one that has gotten away from a classical education like the Calvert School curriculum or the one I had in Baltimore County. Too much socio-emotional and too little life skills.

Well, I agree on your general point, but socio-emotional is a life skill. My daughter has been taught both directly and indirectly on how to resolve conflict and work with others in a way that I was NEVER taught....all while simultaneously working on science and math.

These skills have been nearly entirely skipped over for the last 100 years. And anyone who has ever worked knows doggone well that the interaction between humans is far more important than business theory. So you get people who show up for work having busted *ss in school....yet have no clue how to work in a unit. Result? Toxic business environment where even the simplest of goals are unobtainable.

Also way too little civics. People should understand their form of government and everyone's responsibilities and rights in that system.

Hear, hear! You'd see more of what you and I would both if you left the teachers alone to make their own curriculum. They have to set the curriculum for all the stupid testing that everyone and their mom FORCES the teachers to. So that's what they do: teach kids how to take the stupid tests.

Then you add in all the nutjobs on the far left and far right, telling School Boards what they can and can't do.....and go after books in the library just for kicks. We're doing this to ourselves, by demanding that untrained parents get to have their hands on the tiller. They're the ones running the ship aground, not educators.

THIS, imho, is a large reason why Private schools do well: they get to teach what they want to teach, without interference from well-intended, but untrained parents. And yes, they self select. And yes, the parents are rich.

[KI Dock Bar]

THIS, imho, is a large reason why Private schools do well: they get to teach what they want to teach, without interference from well-intended, but untrained parents. And yes, they self select. And yes, the parents are rich.

When I arrived at Loyola Blakefield HS, as it is now called, in the fall of 1986, the tuition was $3100. When I left 13 years later in the spring in 1999, it was $9500 - it tripled in 13 years! It is now over $20k, and it has been for a few years. In the late 80's I used to see parents dropping their children off at Loyola driving Toyota Corollas and the like, not many Corollas in the late 90's.

My wife and I sent each our two children to catholic schools for 8 of their 13 years. Our decision was based on a number of factors, but it started with a faith-based education that we believed in. Both of us are career educators, my wife for 35 years (33 public and now 2 catholic) and myself for 36 years (13 catholic and now 23 public). We found a way to send our children to catholic schools by living within our means - driving late model cars and going on modest vacations, etc. Typically, at the catholic schools our children attended, we were the exception, not the rule.

I always respected that Loyola had the St. Ignatius Loyola Academy that it established in 1993. The academy provides educational opportunities for middle school young men from low socio-economic communities in Baltimore City. Many of the students from the Academy attend Loyola Blakefield tuition free. Their website states that since their founding, 98% of Academy graduates have received a high school diploma and 88% have matriculated in college. I would be surprised if any public middle school in Maryland can claim that, right?

https://www.saintignatius.org/

As a rule of thumb, catholic school teachers generally make 80% of what public school teachers make. The trade off is the behavioral expectations (higher at catholic schools) and the amount of responsibility outside of the actual teaching that is piled on your plate (greater at public schools). My wife loved her job for 33 years and she loves it even more now. She knows a number of public school teachers who are leaving the profession for a variety of reasons.

[a fan]

THIS, imho, is a large reason why Private schools do well: they get to teach what they want to teach, without interference from well-intended, but untrained parents. And yes, they self select. And yes, the parents are rich.

When I arrived at Loyola Blakefield HS, as it is now called, in the fall of 1986, the tuition was $3100. When I left 13 years later in the spring in 1999, it was $9500 - it tripled in 13 years! It is now over $20k, and it has been for a few years. In the late 80's I used to see parents dropping their children off at Loyola driving Toyota Corollas and the like, not many Corollas in the late 90's.

This is the result of money moving to the top 5% earners, as we hollow out the working class, and give their money to the top 5% earners.

Check out this helpful tool that shows, adjusted for inflation, just how bad it's gotten since your 1986 example.

In 1986, you were a top 5% earner (I picked that, as I'm sure that was what you likely saw at Loyola B as the avg income for parents), you were pulling $181K in your house. Today? Again, adjusted for inflation, that top 5% in America pulls down $286K. Big difference, and explains pretty much everything in our world post-pandemic......all those companies moving to serve the top 5%, because that's where the money is.

https://dqydj.com/household-income-by-year/

My wife and I sent each our two children to catholic schools for 8 of their 13 years. Our decision was based on a number of factors, but it started with a faith-based education that we believed in. Both of us are career educators, my wife for 35 years (33 public and now 2 catholic) and myself for 36 years (13 catholic and now 23 public). We found a way to send our children to catholic schools by living within our means - driving late model cars and going on modest vacations, etc. Typically, at the catholic schools our children attended, we were the exception, not the rule.

I always respected that Loyola had the St. Ignatius Loyola Academy that it established in 1993. The academy provides educational opportunities for middle school young men from low socio-economic communities in Baltimore City. Many of the students from the Academy attend Loyola Blakefield tuition free. Their website states that since their founding, 98% of Academy graduates have received a high school diploma and 88% have matriculated in college. I would be surprised if any public middle school in Maryland can claim that, right?

https://www.saintignatius.org/

As a rule of thumb, catholic school teachers generally make 80% of what public school teachers make. The trade off is the behavioral expectations (higher at catholic schools) and the amount of responsibility outside of the actual teaching that is piled on your plate (greater at public schools). My wife loved her job for 33 years and she loves it even more now. She knows a number of public school teachers who are leaving the profession for a variety of reasons.

Yes. I feel that we're asking teachers to fix our nation's problems, all while doing everything in our power to diminish, hobble, and disempower them. They're leaving in droves, and kids in college are getting the message that teaching is a no-win game, not to mention they'd be saddled with unpayable student debt if they were dumb enough to borrow money to get their eventual teaching certificate.

We're in crisis in American education, with no solutions forthcoming from anyone in power in the US.

Very much appreciate the work you and your wife did, Kl Dock. And I appreciate you sharing your experiences.

[old salt]

...kids in college are getting the message that teaching is a no-win game, not to mention they'd be saddled with unpayable student debt if they were dumb enough to borrow money to get their eventual teaching certificate.

We're in crisis in American education, with no solutions forthcoming from anyone in power in the US.

4 loan forgiveness programs for teachers.

https://studentaid.gov/articles/teacher ... s-options/

My 9th grade civics teacher worked summers in our grocery store. Great teacher, great employee, great guy.
He also worked on a family farm where he rented a room. He & the farmer would bring us pickup truck loads of their watermelons & cantaloupes to sell in our store. He became a principal & a farm owner.

[a fan]

...kids in college are getting the message that teaching is a no-win game, not to mention they'd be saddled with unpayable student debt if they were dumb enough to borrow money to get their eventual teaching certificate.

We're in crisis in American education, with no solutions forthcoming from anyone in power in the US.

4 loan forgiveness programs for teachers.

https://studentaid.gov/articles/teacher ... s-options/

All of the programs assume you work for at least 5 years. Some 10 years. Not very helpful.

44% of new teachers give up within 5 years.

My 9th grade civics teacher worked summers in our grocery store. Great teacher, great employee, great guy.
He also worked on a family farm where he rented a room. He & the farmer would bring us pickup truck loads of their watermelons & cantaloupes to sell in our store. He became a principal & a farm owner.

He was held in high regard, no? And as you and I have discussed----taught without parents or boards telling him what and how to teach. Not anymore. We now have millions of citizens who have been convinced by the internet that teachers are the enemy. Who think that teachers are "grooming" children.

Parents are operating under the assumption that teachers have no choice but to put up with their nonsense. The statistics say otherwise.

[youthathletics]

44% of new teachers give up within 5 years.

That is nothing new....they simply need more men teaching, woman can't stand being around one another . NO different than the push to get more women in STEM careers in recent years.

[a fan]

44% of new teachers give up within 5 years.

That is nothing new....they simply need more men teaching, woman can't stand being around one another . NO different than the push to get more women in STEM careers in recent years.

My point was that that incentive that OS cited wasn't suited to the task at hand.

[PizzaSnake]

...kids in college are getting the message that teaching is a no-win game, not to mention they'd be saddled with unpayable student debt if they were dumb enough to borrow money to get their eventual teaching certificate.

We're in crisis in American education, with no solutions forthcoming from anyone in power in the US.

4 loan forgiveness programs for teachers.

https://studentaid.gov/articles/teacher ... s-options/

All of the programs assume you work for at least 5 years. Some 10 years. Not very helpful.

44% of new teachers give up within 5 years.

My 9th grade civics teacher worked summers in our grocery store. Great teacher, great employee, great guy.
He also worked on a family farm where he rented a room. He & the farmer would bring us pickup truck loads of their watermelons & cantaloupes to sell in our store. He became a principal & a farm owner.

He was held in high regard, no? And as you and I have discussed----taught without parents or boards telling him what and how to teach. Not anymore. We now have millions of citizens who have been convinced by the internet that teachers are the enemy. Who think that teachers are "grooming" children.

Parents are operating under the assumption that teachers have no choice but to put up with their nonsense. The statistics say otherwise.

Society is “teaching” children lessons constantly. Now, the question is, what lessons and what are the children learning from them?

[Farfromgeneva]

THIS, imho, is a large reason why Private schools do well: they get to teach what they want to teach, without interference from well-intended, but untrained parents. And yes, they self select. And yes, the parents are rich.

When I arrived at Loyola Blakefield HS, as it is now called, in the fall of 1986, the tuition was $3100. When I left 13 years later in the spring in 1999, it was $9500 - it tripled in 13 years! It is now over $20k, and it has been for a few years. In the late 80's I used to see parents dropping their children off at Loyola driving Toyota Corollas and the like, not many Corollas in the late 90's.

This is the result of money moving to the top 5% earners, as we hollow out the working class, and give their money to the top 5% earners.

Check out this helpful tool that shows, adjusted for inflation, just how bad it's gotten since your 1986 example.

In 1986, you were a top 5% earner (I picked that, as I'm sure that was what you likely saw at Loyola B as the avg income for parents), you were pulling $181K in your house. Today? Again, adjusted for inflation, that top 5% in America pulls down $286K. Big difference, and explains pretty much everything in our world post-pandemic......all those companies moving to serve the top 5%, because that's where the money is.

https://dqydj.com/household-income-by-year/

My wife and I sent each our two children to catholic schools for 8 of their 13 years. Our decision was based on a number of factors, but it started with a faith-based education that we believed in. Both of us are career educators, my wife for 35 years (33 public and now 2 catholic) and myself for 36 years (13 catholic and now 23 public). We found a way to send our children to catholic schools by living within our means - driving late model cars and going on modest vacations, etc. Typically, at the catholic schools our children attended, we were the exception, not the rule.

I always respected that Loyola had the St. Ignatius Loyola Academy that it established in 1993. The academy provides educational opportunities for middle school young men from low socio-economic communities in Baltimore City. Many of the students from the Academy attend Loyola Blakefield tuition free. Their website states that since their founding, 98% of Academy graduates have received a high school diploma and 88% have matriculated in college. I would be surprised if any public middle school in Maryland can claim that, right?

https://www.saintignatius.org/

As a rule of thumb, catholic school teachers generally make 80% of what public school teachers make. The trade off is the behavioral expectations (higher at catholic schools) and the amount of responsibility outside of the actual teaching that is piled on your plate (greater at public schools). My wife loved her job for 33 years and she loves it even more now. She knows a number of public school teachers who are leaving the profession for a variety of reasons.

Yes. I feel that we're asking teachers to fix our nation's problems, all while doing everything in our power to diminish, hobble, and disempower them. They're leaving in droves, and kids in college are getting the message that teaching is a no-win game, not to mention they'd be saddled with unpayable student debt if they were dumb enough to borrow money to get their eventual teaching certificate.

We're in crisis in American education, with no solutions forthcoming from anyone in power in the US.

Very much appreciate the work you and your wife did, Kl Dock. And I appreciate you sharing your experiences.

The whole 5% math you did doesn’t seem that big of a deal, if that’s right, as a 55% increase in 37yrs? That’s 1.5%/annum on a straight line, probably far less than 1% on a compound basis without doing the math.

[Farfromgeneva]

...kids in college are getting the message that teaching is a no-win game, not to mention they'd be saddled with unpayable student debt if they were dumb enough to borrow money to get their eventual teaching certificate.

We're in crisis in American education, with no solutions forthcoming from anyone in power in the US.

4 loan forgiveness programs for teachers.

https://studentaid.gov/articles/teacher ... s-options/

All of the programs assume you work for at least 5 years. Some 10 years. Not very helpful.

44% of new teachers give up within 5 years.

My 9th grade civics teacher worked summers in our grocery store. Great teacher, great employee, great guy.
He also worked on a family farm where he rented a room. He & the farmer would bring us pickup truck loads of their watermelons & cantaloupes to sell in our store. He became a principal & a farm owner.

He was held in high regard, no? And as you and I have discussed----taught without parents or boards telling him what and how to teach. Not anymore. We now have millions of citizens who have been convinced by the internet that teachers are the enemy. Who think that teachers are "grooming" children.

Parents are operating under the assumption that teachers have no choice but to put up with their nonsense. The statistics say otherwise.

Society is “teaching” children lessons constantly. Now, the question is, what lessons and what are the children learning from them?

Some folks underestimate signaling value

[MDlaxfan76]

THIS, imho, is a large reason why Private schools do well: they get to teach what they want to teach, without interference from well-intended, but untrained parents. And yes, they self select. And yes, the parents are rich.

When I arrived at Loyola Blakefield HS, as it is now called, in the fall of 1986, the tuition was $3100. When I left 13 years later in the spring in 1999, it was $9500 - it tripled in 13 years! It is now over $20k, and it has been for a few years. In the late 80's I used to see parents dropping their children off at Loyola driving Toyota Corollas and the like, not many Corollas in the late 90's.

This is the result of money moving to the top 5% earners, as we hollow out the working class, and give their money to the top 5% earners.

Check out this helpful tool that shows, adjusted for inflation, just how bad it's gotten since your 1986 example.

In 1986, you were a top 5% earner (I picked that, as I'm sure that was what you likely saw at Loyola B as the avg income for parents), you were pulling $181K in your house. Today? Again, adjusted for inflation, that top 5% in America pulls down $286K. Big difference, and explains pretty much everything in our world post-pandemic......all those companies moving to serve the top 5%, because that's where the money is.

https://dqydj.com/household-income-by-year/

My wife and I sent each our two children to catholic schools for 8 of their 13 years. Our decision was based on a number of factors, but it started with a faith-based education that we believed in. Both of us are career educators, my wife for 35 years (33 public and now 2 catholic) and myself for 36 years (13 catholic and now 23 public). We found a way to send our children to catholic schools by living within our means - driving late model cars and going on modest vacations, etc. Typically, at the catholic schools our children attended, we were the exception, not the rule.

I always respected that Loyola had the St. Ignatius Loyola Academy that it established in 1993. The academy provides educational opportunities for middle school young men from low socio-economic communities in Baltimore City. Many of the students from the Academy attend Loyola Blakefield tuition free. Their website states that since their founding, 98% of Academy graduates have received a high school diploma and 88% have matriculated in college. I would be surprised if any public middle school in Maryland can claim that, right?

https://www.saintignatius.org/

As a rule of thumb, catholic school teachers generally make 80% of what public school teachers make. The trade off is the behavioral expectations (higher at catholic schools) and the amount of responsibility outside of the actual teaching that is piled on your plate (greater at public schools). My wife loved her job for 33 years and she loves it even more now. She knows a number of public school teachers who are leaving the profession for a variety of reasons.

Yes. I feel that we're asking teachers to fix our nation's problems, all while doing everything in our power to diminish, hobble, and disempower them. They're leaving in droves, and kids in college are getting the message that teaching is a no-win game, not to mention they'd be saddled with unpayable student debt if they were dumb enough to borrow money to get their eventual teaching certificate.

We're in crisis in American education, with no solutions forthcoming from anyone in power in the US.

Very much appreciate the work you and your wife did, Kl Dock. And I appreciate you sharing your experiences.

The whole 5% math you did doesn’t seem that big of a deal, if that’s right, as a 55% increase in 37yrs? That’s 1.5%/annum on a straight line, probably far less than 1% on a compound basis without doing the math.

I believe the stat is adjusted for inflation. Top 5% are making half again as much as they used to ...in constant dollars. That's a sea change difference, right?

[Farfromgeneva]

THIS, imho, is a large reason why Private schools do well: they get to teach what they want to teach, without interference from well-intended, but untrained parents. And yes, they self select. And yes, the parents are rich.

When I arrived at Loyola Blakefield HS, as it is now called, in the fall of 1986, the tuition was $3100. When I left 13 years later in the spring in 1999, it was $9500 - it tripled in 13 years! It is now over $20k, and it has been for a few years. In the late 80's I used to see parents dropping their children off at Loyola driving Toyota Corollas and the like, not many Corollas in the late 90's.

This is the result of money moving to the top 5% earners, as we hollow out the working class, and give their money to the top 5% earners.

Check out this helpful tool that shows, adjusted for inflation, just how bad it's gotten since your 1986 example.

In 1986, you were a top 5% earner (I picked that, as I'm sure that was what you likely saw at Loyola B as the avg income for parents), you were pulling $181K in your house. Today? Again, adjusted for inflation, that top 5% in America pulls down $286K. Big difference, and explains pretty much everything in our world post-pandemic......all those companies moving to serve the top 5%, because that's where the money is.

https://dqydj.com/household-income-by-year/

My wife and I sent each our two children to catholic schools for 8 of their 13 years. Our decision was based on a number of factors, but it started with a faith-based education that we believed in. Both of us are career educators, my wife for 35 years (33 public and now 2 catholic) and myself for 36 years (13 catholic and now 23 public). We found a way to send our children to catholic schools by living within our means - driving late model cars and going on modest vacations, etc. Typically, at the catholic schools our children attended, we were the exception, not the rule.

I always respected that Loyola had the St. Ignatius Loyola Academy that it established in 1993. The academy provides educational opportunities for middle school young men from low socio-economic communities in Baltimore City. Many of the students from the Academy attend Loyola Blakefield tuition free. Their website states that since their founding, 98% of Academy graduates have received a high school diploma and 88% have matriculated in college. I would be surprised if any public middle school in Maryland can claim that, right?

https://www.saintignatius.org/

As a rule of thumb, catholic school teachers generally make 80% of what public school teachers make. The trade off is the behavioral expectations (higher at catholic schools) and the amount of responsibility outside of the actual teaching that is piled on your plate (greater at public schools). My wife loved her job for 33 years and she loves it even more now. She knows a number of public school teachers who are leaving the profession for a variety of reasons.

Yes. I feel that we're asking teachers to fix our nation's problems, all while doing everything in our power to diminish, hobble, and disempower them. They're leaving in droves, and kids in college are getting the message that teaching is a no-win game, not to mention they'd be saddled with unpayable student debt if they were dumb enough to borrow money to get their eventual teaching certificate.

We're in crisis in American education, with no solutions forthcoming from anyone in power in the US.

Very much appreciate the work you and your wife did, Kl Dock. And I appreciate you sharing your experiences.

The whole 5% math you did doesn’t seem that big of a deal, if that’s right, as a 55% increase in 37yrs? That’s 1.5%/annum on a straight line, probably far less than 1% on a compound basis without doing the math.

I believe the stat is adjusted for inflation. Top 5% are making half again as much as they used to ...in constant dollars. That's a sea change difference, right?

Even adjusted for inflation is a CAGR below 1% staggering? Over nearly four decades. If I were in the top 5% on the back end of the S&L crisis, benefitting from the major economic runs in the 90s, 2000s, and 2010s and declinining rate world and the peace dividend from the cold war I have to think a person in that cohorot would've compounded income faster than that.

[a fan]

THIS, imho, is a large reason why Private schools do well: they get to teach what they want to teach, without interference from well-intended, but untrained parents. And yes, they self select. And yes, the parents are rich.

When I arrived at Loyola Blakefield HS, as it is now called, in the fall of 1986, the tuition was $3100. When I left 13 years later in the spring in 1999, it was $9500 - it tripled in 13 years! It is now over $20k, and it has been for a few years. In the late 80's I used to see parents dropping their children off at Loyola driving Toyota Corollas and the like, not many Corollas in the late 90's.

This is the result of money moving to the top 5% earners, as we hollow out the working class, and give their money to the top 5% earners.

Check out this helpful tool that shows, adjusted for inflation, just how bad it's gotten since your 1986 example.

In 1986, you were a top 5% earner (I picked that, as I'm sure that was what you likely saw at Loyola B as the avg income for parents), you were pulling $181K in your house. Today? Again, adjusted for inflation, that top 5% in America pulls down $286K. Big difference, and explains pretty much everything in our world post-pandemic......all those companies moving to serve the top 5%, because that's where the money is.

https://dqydj.com/household-income-by-year/

My wife and I sent each our two children to catholic schools for 8 of their 13 years. Our decision was based on a number of factors, but it started with a faith-based education that we believed in. Both of us are career educators, my wife for 35 years (33 public and now 2 catholic) and myself for 36 years (13 catholic and now 23 public). We found a way to send our children to catholic schools by living within our means - driving late model cars and going on modest vacations, etc. Typically, at the catholic schools our children attended, we were the exception, not the rule.

I always respected that Loyola had the St. Ignatius Loyola Academy that it established in 1993. The academy provides educational opportunities for middle school young men from low socio-economic communities in Baltimore City. Many of the students from the Academy attend Loyola Blakefield tuition free. Their website states that since their founding, 98% of Academy graduates have received a high school diploma and 88% have matriculated in college. I would be surprised if any public middle school in Maryland can claim that, right?

https://www.saintignatius.org/

As a rule of thumb, catholic school teachers generally make 80% of what public school teachers make. The trade off is the behavioral expectations (higher at catholic schools) and the amount of responsibility outside of the actual teaching that is piled on your plate (greater at public schools). My wife loved her job for 33 years and she loves it even more now. She knows a number of public school teachers who are leaving the profession for a variety of reasons.

Yes. I feel that we're asking teachers to fix our nation's problems, all while doing everything in our power to diminish, hobble, and disempower them. They're leaving in droves, and kids in college are getting the message that teaching is a no-win game, not to mention they'd be saddled with unpayable student debt if they were dumb enough to borrow money to get their eventual teaching certificate.

We're in crisis in American education, with no solutions forthcoming from anyone in power in the US.

Very much appreciate the work you and your wife did, Kl Dock. And I appreciate you sharing your experiences.

The whole 5% math you did doesn’t seem that big of a deal, if that’s right, as a 55% increase in 37yrs? That’s 1.5%/annum on a straight line, probably far less than 1% on a compound basis without doing the math.

I believe the stat is adjusted for inflation. Top 5% are making half again as much as they used to ...in constant dollars. That's a sea change difference, right?

Other way around. It's an illustration that the rich is getting richer....and that top 5% is where so many companies are focusing their attention in the same way that companies chased after boomers as they aged----that's where the money was.

Use the scale and have a look at the bottom percentages, and their purchasing power in inflation-adjusted dollars over the years.....not good.

[KI Dock Bar]

I attribute the breakdown of the family unit for many of the shortfalls in our society and the education of our young people is at the top of the list. My wife has taught 35 years of kindergarten and 1st grade, and counting. She has seen a significant increase in the students who live in more than one home. Communicating with parents used to be calling home. Now it is a whole new ball of wax. Due to this circumstance, schools find themselves in a position to care for many of these students in a way they never had to before. School counselors are becoming more and more a integral part of every school.

As a PE teacher, I have cases of water in my office for students who occasionally come to see me during the day in need of a bottle. I also have a snack drawer that provides nutrition to hungry students. How students come to school has changed in so many ways for so many reasons.

I worked a summer job for the first 30 of my 33 years, I have not worked a summer job in the past 4 summers and I think I am done with that. The money I made in the summer supplemented our family summer vacation. I worked a part time job during the school year for 35 years, although I never thought of it as a part time job. I coached soccer in the fall and lacrosse in the spring.

There are a number of benefits to being a teacher, such as our health insurance is top notch, we work 190 days and get off a significant amount of time for the holidays. Most importantly, we work for the government, we have a pension! Unfortunately, not everyone who comes into the profession is suited for the roller coaster ride you go on everyday.

[MDlaxfan76]

THIS, imho, is a large reason why Private schools do well: they get to teach what they want to teach, without interference from well-intended, but untrained parents. And yes, they self select. And yes, the parents are rich.

When I arrived at Loyola Blakefield HS, as it is now called, in the fall of 1986, the tuition was $3100. When I left 13 years later in the spring in 1999, it was $9500 - it tripled in 13 years! It is now over $20k, and it has been for a few years. In the late 80's I used to see parents dropping their children off at Loyola driving Toyota Corollas and the like, not many Corollas in the late 90's.

This is the result of money moving to the top 5% earners, as we hollow out the working class, and give their money to the top 5% earners.

Check out this helpful tool that shows, adjusted for inflation, just how bad it's gotten since your 1986 example.

In 1986, you were a top 5% earner (I picked that, as I'm sure that was what you likely saw at Loyola B as the avg income for parents), you were pulling $181K in your house. Today? Again, adjusted for inflation, that top 5% in America pulls down $286K. Big difference, and explains pretty much everything in our world post-pandemic......all those companies moving to serve the top 5%, because that's where the money is.

https://dqydj.com/household-income-by-year/

My wife and I sent each our two children to catholic schools for 8 of their 13 years. Our decision was based on a number of factors, but it started with a faith-based education that we believed in. Both of us are career educators, my wife for 35 years (33 public and now 2 catholic) and myself for 36 years (13 catholic and now 23 public). We found a way to send our children to catholic schools by living within our means - driving late model cars and going on modest vacations, etc. Typically, at the catholic schools our children attended, we were the exception, not the rule.

I always respected that Loyola had the St. Ignatius Loyola Academy that it established in 1993. The academy provides educational opportunities for middle school young men from low socio-economic communities in Baltimore City. Many of the students from the Academy attend Loyola Blakefield tuition free. Their website states that since their founding, 98% of Academy graduates have received a high school diploma and 88% have matriculated in college. I would be surprised if any public middle school in Maryland can claim that, right?

https://www.saintignatius.org/

As a rule of thumb, catholic school teachers generally make 80% of what public school teachers make. The trade off is the behavioral expectations (higher at catholic schools) and the amount of responsibility outside of the actual teaching that is piled on your plate (greater at public schools). My wife loved her job for 33 years and she loves it even more now. She knows a number of public school teachers who are leaving the profession for a variety of reasons.

Yes. I feel that we're asking teachers to fix our nation's problems, all while doing everything in our power to diminish, hobble, and disempower them. They're leaving in droves, and kids in college are getting the message that teaching is a no-win game, not to mention they'd be saddled with unpayable student debt if they were dumb enough to borrow money to get their eventual teaching certificate.

We're in crisis in American education, with no solutions forthcoming from anyone in power in the US.

Very much appreciate the work you and your wife did, Kl Dock. And I appreciate you sharing your experiences.

The whole 5% math you did doesn’t seem that big of a deal, if that’s right, as a 55% increase in 37yrs? That’s 1.5%/annum on a straight line, probably far less than 1% on a compound basis without doing the math.

I believe the stat is adjusted for inflation. Top 5% are making half again as much as they used to ...in constant dollars. That's a sea change difference, right?

Other way around. It's an illustration that the rich is getting richer....and that top 5% is where so many companies are focusing their attention in the same way that companies chased after boomers as they aged----that's where the money was.

Use the scale and have a look at the bottom percentages, and their purchasing power in inflation-adjusted dollars over the years.....not good.

That's what the phase "half again as much" means, or at least how I meant it.

Indeed, more at the top, less down below.

[a fan]

That's what the phase "half again as much" means, or at least how I meant it.

Ah, my bad, MDLax.......needed to read more carefully!

[MDlaxfan76]

That's what the phase "half again as much" means, or at least how I meant it.

Ah, my bad, MDLax.......needed to read more carefully!

no worries, I'd just understood the point you'd made earlier.

[a fan]

I attribute the breakdown of the family unit for many of the shortfalls in our society and the education of our young people is at the top of the list. My wife has taught 35 years of kindergarten and 1st grade, and counting. She has seen a significant increase in the students who live in more than one home. Communicating with parents used to be calling home. Now it is a whole new ball of wax. Due to this circumstance, schools find themselves in a position to care for many of these students in a way they never had to before. School counselors are becoming more and more a integral part of every school.

Plenty of 1st world countries with higher divorce rates than the US with better educational outcomes.

I will say, though, that as a nation, we don't live in multi-generational homes like other 1st world nations do.

As a PE teacher, I have cases of water in my office for students who occasionally come to see me during the day in need of a bottle. I also have a snack drawer that provides nutrition to hungry students. How students come to school has changed in so many ways for so many reasons.

We have less socialism than other 1st world countries do.

There are a number of benefits to being a teacher, such as our health insurance is top notch, we work 190 days and get off a significant amount of time for the holidays. Most importantly, we work for the government, we have a pension! Unfortunately, not everyone who comes into the profession is suited for the roller coaster ride you go on everyday.

As I'm sure you know, these bennies and wages vary GREATLY by State. Do you live on the N Eastern seaboard?

[old salt]

I attribute the breakdown of the family unit for many of the shortfalls in our society and the education of our young people is at the top of the list. My wife has taught 35 years of kindergarten and 1st grade, and counting. She has seen a significant increase in the students who live in more than one home. Communicating with parents used to be calling home. Now it is a whole new ball of wax. Due to this circumstance, schools find themselves in a position to care for many of these students in a way they never had to before. School counselors are becoming more and more a integral part of every school.

Plenty of 1st world countries with higher divorce rates than the US with better educational outcomes.
How 'bout unmarried parent(s) ?

I will say, though, that as a nation, we don't live in multi-generational homes like other 1st world nations do.

As a PE teacher, I have cases of water in my office for students who occasionally come to see me during the day in need of a bottle. I also have a snack drawer that provides nutrition to hungry students. How students come to school has changed in so many ways for so many reasons.

We have less socialism than other 1st world countries do.

There are a number of benefits to being a teacher, such as our health insurance is top notch, we work 190 days and get off a significant amount of time for the holidays. Most importantly, we work for the government, we have a pension! Unfortunately, not everyone who comes into the profession is suited for the roller coaster ride you go on everyday.

As I'm sure you know, these bennies and wages vary GREATLY by State. Do you live on the N Eastern seaboard?
Taxes, home prices, energy prices & cost of living are higher here too.