The Hate Directed at the LGBTQ+

[MDlaxfan76]

Exactly. We do not teach Algebra to 3rd graders because their brains are not ready. Some, if not most teens are not ready to understand what is happening to them amid the craziness of their own natural hormonal bombardment. I have heard that a vast majority of people who are gender questioning wind up back to identifying with their biological sex if allowed to resolve itself. Why not let nature take it's course until they are an adult and can give informed consent?

3rd graders are very capable of understanding basic Algebra.

And by vast majority, do you mean 1%?

Some studies suggest that rates of regret have declined over the years as patient selection and treatment methods have improved. In a review of 27 studies involving almost 8,000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret.

We want to catch it early because if people go through puberty, then it's much, much harder to transition and pass later in life.

Way more than the 1% you suggest. And who is this "we" that want to catch it early? Do you have a pet rat in your pocket?

https://www.transgendertrend.com/children-change-minds/

... source is a bunch of psychiatrists selling their sh*t. Your fact data is generated by asking parents of anti-trans kids what they think.

This is why I seldom cite sources. I did so to point out that 1% was a ridiculous number. I could cite The Bible as my authority, but that doesn't mean you recognize my cited authority. How many cited the CDC during Covid and how many times were they flat out wrong? There are a lot of highly educated stupid people that contracted Covid after vaccination and several boosters.

contracted"?

How many who contracted and had been boosted died of COVID related causes? What percentage died of those who contracted?

How many unvaccinated died? What percentage of those who contracted died?

Now tell me being vaccinated and boosted didn't save lives...

Of course we should analyze what the data is actually telling us, including modifying our assessments as more data comes in...but turning to some whack jobs on the internet ain't the way to do it.

My point was when you argue from authority, whether its a scientist or the written word, the other person may not accept your authority. You might believe the "Men can get pregnant" authority, I may not. Wasn't really a Covid argument.

"may not accept" is definitely true.

The question is how we assess credibility, "authority"...for instance, the willingness to publish peer reviewable data, and the results of efforts to replicate such data.

I'd assert that we shouldn't give someone the time of day on a serious subject if they don't have such credibility.

Too many have decided that because experts who do so are nonetheless fallible that all such should be ignored...and turn to some guy on the internet who is unwilling to submit themselves to such scrutiny, but man can they sling the BS..."persuasive".

[jhu72]

Exactly. We do not teach Algebra to 3rd graders because their brains are not ready. Some, if not most teens are not ready to understand what is happening to them amid the craziness of their own natural hormonal bombardment. I have heard that a vast majority of people who are gender questioning wind up back to identifying with their biological sex if allowed to resolve itself. Why not let nature take it's course until they are an adult and can give informed consent?

3rd graders are very capable of understanding basic Algebra.

And by vast majority, do you mean 1%?

Some studies suggest that rates of regret have declined over the years as patient selection and treatment methods have improved. In a review of 27 studies involving almost 8,000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret.

We want to catch it early because if people go through puberty, then it's much, much harder to transition and pass later in life.

Way more than the 1% you suggest. And who is this "we" that want to catch it early? Do you have a pet rat in your pocket?

https://www.transgendertrend.com/children-change-minds/

... source is a bunch of psychiatrists selling their sh*t. Your fact data is generated by asking parents of anti-trans kids what they think.

This is why I seldom cite sources. I did so to point out that 1% was a ridiculous number. I could cite The Bible as my authority, but that doesn't mean you recognize my cited authority. How many cited the CDC during Covid and how many times were they flat out wrong? There are a lot of highly educated stupid people that contracted Covid after vaccination and several boosters.

contracted"?

How many who contracted and had been boosted died of COVID related causes? What percentage died of those who contracted?

How many unvaccinated died? What percentage of those who contracted died?

Now tell me being vaccinated and boosted didn't save lives...

Of course we should analyze what the data is actually telling us, including modifying our assessments as more data comes in...but turning to some whack jobs on the internet ain't the way to do it.

My point was when you argue from authority, whether its a scientist or the written word, the other person may not accept your authority. You might believe the "Men can get pregnant" authority, I may not. Wasn't really a Covid argument.

... who told you and you believed them that men get pregnant? It is clear only vagina and womb combinations get pregnant. Currently transgender men only get pregnant if they have not transitioned fully from a woman. Because such individuals want you to understand how they want to be considered and not be considered a woman, they make this point. They are not going to allow someone else to define them. This is both a defensive mechanism and meant to shock the anti-trans world. They are fighting back. It is also aspirational. I would think those who are trying to understand would not get hung up on this, and certainly would not believe it. Humor them - although that will not satisfy them most likely.

[tech37]

Many of the students in the LGTBQ+ community in our schools do not feel they can talk to their parent(s) about their development. They talk to the school counselor. The school counselor provides support for the student. Our school added a counselor this year with no increase to our population. Students used to ask me to go the counselor and I usually would ask them what was going on, etc. - not so much anymore. My response typically depends on my how well I know the student and other factors like the sense of urgency on the students face. This is not limited to the LGTBQ+ students. Since we returned to school from the pandemic the amount of students asking to see the counselors has increased 3 fold. There is a lot of kid drama at the middle school age these days more than ever.

Anytime a teacher is presenting information about sensitive subjects there are going to be questions. Not every question has a cut and dry answer. Sometimes the teachers answer, IMO, is a form of promoting a certain angle to a subject rather than providing information. This happens in history/language arts class, etc. on a different level as well. Rather than answer some of these questions, the teacher should refer the student(s) to the counselor. Most health teachers who cover these subjects have an anonymous question box in their classroom where students can place questions they have. The teacher will then either answer the question in the next class or consult with the counselor.

Thanks for sharing your experience...

Was the new counselor added due mostly to trans issues? Then you mention the pandemic and sounds like lockdown at your school... trans issues then just part of reason for add'l counselor? Do you have a sense that trans issues increased since the pandemic? Most likely tough to say...

Have kids displaying trans or trans interest been bullied at your school?

As a parent I would insist I be told about any reason my child is talking with a counselor at school, not just trans issues. Assuming there's no abuse going on at home, isn't that every parent's right? And it seems to me that if parents are paying attention, they already know something is up, or at least should know.

[MDlaxfan76]

Many of the students in the LGTBQ+ community in our schools do not feel they can talk to their parent(s) about their development. They talk to the school counselor. The school counselor provides support for the student. Our school added a counselor this year with no increase to our population. Students used to ask me to go the counselor and I usually would ask them what was going on, etc. - not so much anymore. My response typically depends on my how well I know the student and other factors like the sense of urgency on the students face. This is not limited to the LGTBQ+ students. Since we returned to school from the pandemic the amount of students asking to see the counselors has increased 3 fold. There is a lot of kid drama at the middle school age these days more than ever.

Anytime a teacher is presenting information about sensitive subjects there are going to be questions. Not every question has a cut and dry answer. Sometimes the teachers answer, IMO, is a form of promoting a certain angle to a subject rather than providing information. This happens in history/language arts class, etc. on a different level as well. Rather than answer some of these questions, the teacher should refer the student(s) to the counselor. Most health teachers who cover these subjects have an anonymous question box in their classroom where students can place questions they have. The teacher will then either answer the question in the next class or consult with the counselor.

Thanks for sharing your experience...

Was the new counselor added due mostly to trans issues? Then you mention the pandemic and sounds like lockdown at your school... trans issues then just part of reason for add'l counselor? Do you have a sense that trans issues increased since the pandemic? Most likely tough to say...

Have kids displaying trans or trans interest been bullied at your school?

As a parent I would insist I be told about any reason my child is talking with a counselor at school, not just trans issues. Assuming there's no abuse going on at home, isn't that every parent's right? And it seems to me that if parents are paying attention, they already know something is up, or at least should know.

Yes "or at least should know"..."if the parents are paying attention" AND they've built TRUST with their child.

The issue of any emotional issue is that it CAN involve the quality of that parental relationship, a lack of trust. It needn't be a matter of known physical abuse (kids rarely will admit to such), it can be a matter of perceived harsh disapproval.

A counselor relationship works when trust is built between the parties.
It is not a "reporting" relationship that breaches such trust.
One goal of the counseling may well be addressing the development of the child's trust with parents, but it may well not be the first priority.

I DO think that when a student is at an emotional stage where they are assessed as being a danger to themselves or others, there should be an urgency to prevent such. This may require intervention that involves the parents, indeed more likely than not...unless there is parental abuse involved in the crisis.

As to bullying, I think it's pretty clear that's a consistent reality, regardless of whether teachers know about it in specific.

[youthathletics]

Many of the students in the LGTBQ+ community in our schools do not feel they can talk to their parent(s) about their development. They talk to the school counselor. The school counselor provides support for the student. Our school added a counselor this year with no increase to our population. Students used to ask me to go the counselor and I usually would ask them what was going on, etc. - not so much anymore. My response typically depends on my how well I know the student and other factors like the sense of urgency on the students face. This is not limited to the LGTBQ+ students. Since we returned to school from the pandemic the amount of students asking to see the counselors has increased 3 fold. There is a lot of kid drama at the middle school age these days more than ever.

Anytime a teacher is presenting information about sensitive subjects there are going to be questions. Not every question has a cut and dry answer. Sometimes the teachers answer, IMO, is a form of promoting a certain angle to a subject rather than providing information. This happens in history/language arts class, etc. on a different level as well. Rather than answer some of these questions, the teacher should refer the student(s) to the counselor. Most health teachers who cover these subjects have an anonymous question box in their classroom where students can place questions they have. The teacher will then either answer the question in the next class or consult with the counselor.

Thanks for sharing your experience...

Was the new counselor added due mostly to trans issues? Then you mention the pandemic and sounds like lockdown at your school... trans issues then just part of reason for add'l counselor? Do you have a sense that trans issues increased since the pandemic? Most likely tough to say...

Have kids displaying trans or trans interest been bullied at your school?

As a parent I would insist I be told about any reason my child is talking with a counselor at school, not just trans issues. Assuming there's no abuse going on at home, isn't that every parent's right? And it seems to me that if parents are paying attention, they already know something is up, or at least should know.

Great questions....and yet we have been told its just the right wing nuts making a big deal out of this, media, and less than 1% of population, so strangely it IS bigger than 1%? Or maybe we just have to cover our six, for legal?

As with the cv19 fallout and more sedentary children out there, we are also seeing a shift in teaching curriculum mandate. They are not saying it is b/c cv19, but they now want teachers to shift to a 'movement' based pedagogy.

[MDlaxfan76]

Many of the students in the LGTBQ+ community in our schools do not feel they can talk to their parent(s) about their development. They talk to the school counselor. The school counselor provides support for the student. Our school added a counselor this year with no increase to our population. Students used to ask me to go the counselor and I usually would ask them what was going on, etc. - not so much anymore. My response typically depends on my how well I know the student and other factors like the sense of urgency on the students face. This is not limited to the LGTBQ+ students. Since we returned to school from the pandemic the amount of students asking to see the counselors has increased 3 fold. There is a lot of kid drama at the middle school age these days more than ever.

Anytime a teacher is presenting information about sensitive subjects there are going to be questions. Not every question has a cut and dry answer. Sometimes the teachers answer, IMO, is a form of promoting a certain angle to a subject rather than providing information. This happens in history/language arts class, etc. on a different level as well. Rather than answer some of these questions, the teacher should refer the student(s) to the counselor. Most health teachers who cover these subjects have an anonymous question box in their classroom where students can place questions they have. The teacher will then either answer the question in the next class or consult with the counselor.

Thanks for sharing your experience...

Was the new counselor added due mostly to trans issues? Then you mention the pandemic and sounds like lockdown at your school... trans issues then just part of reason for add'l counselor? Do you have a sense that trans issues increased since the pandemic? Most likely tough to say...

Have kids displaying trans or trans interest been bullied at your school?

As a parent I would insist I be told about any reason my child is talking with a counselor at school, not just trans issues. Assuming there's no abuse going on at home, isn't that every parent's right? And it seems to me that if parents are paying attention, they already know something is up, or at least should know.

Great questions....and yet we have been told its just the right wing nuts making a big deal out of this, media, and less than 1% of population, so strangely it IS bigger than 1%? Or maybe we just have to cover our six, for legal?

As with the cv19 fallout and more sedentary children out there, we are also seeing a shift in teaching curriculum mandate. They are not saying it is b/c cv19, but they now want teachers to shift to a 'movement' based pedagogy.

Where the heck are you getting this (drivel) from?

There's a going to need to be a big effort to get kids back on track in reading, writing, math...big fall off due to pandemic, especially among lower socio-economic groups where parents couldn't stay home and pick up the teaching slack, weren't as equipped as some parents to do so. But also at higher income groups.

AND there's going to be a substantial need for kids to recover emotionally from the disruption...and from the constant barrage of angry, divisive messages in social media feeds, and of course the rapidly escalating traumas they feel in mass school shootings. It doesn't need to be at their school, just the sense that it's happening more and more, unexpectedly, any moment...and the 'ask' they are overwhelmingly making to address this violence is being ignored by the older generation, as manifested in right wing legislatures and the Courts...kids know this is happening.

Both of these priorities are very much on the minds of educators, both in the classroom and with the administrators.

BTW, I googled "movement based education pedagogy"...try it..is that what you mean?

[youthathletics]

Many of the students in the LGTBQ+ community in our schools do not feel they can talk to their parent(s) about their development. They talk to the school counselor. The school counselor provides support for the student. Our school added a counselor this year with no increase to our population. Students used to ask me to go the counselor and I usually would ask them what was going on, etc. - not so much anymore. My response typically depends on my how well I know the student and other factors like the sense of urgency on the students face. This is not limited to the LGTBQ+ students. Since we returned to school from the pandemic the amount of students asking to see the counselors has increased 3 fold. There is a lot of kid drama at the middle school age these days more than ever.

Anytime a teacher is presenting information about sensitive subjects there are going to be questions. Not every question has a cut and dry answer. Sometimes the teachers answer, IMO, is a form of promoting a certain angle to a subject rather than providing information. This happens in history/language arts class, etc. on a different level as well. Rather than answer some of these questions, the teacher should refer the student(s) to the counselor. Most health teachers who cover these subjects have an anonymous question box in their classroom where students can place questions they have. The teacher will then either answer the question in the next class or consult with the counselor.

Thanks for sharing your experience...

Was the new counselor added due mostly to trans issues? Then you mention the pandemic and sounds like lockdown at your school... trans issues then just part of reason for add'l counselor? Do you have a sense that trans issues increased since the pandemic? Most likely tough to say...

Have kids displaying trans or trans interest been bullied at your school?

As a parent I would insist I be told about any reason my child is talking with a counselor at school, not just trans issues. Assuming there's no abuse going on at home, isn't that every parent's right? And it seems to me that if parents are paying attention, they already know something is up, or at least should know.

Great questions....and yet we have been told its just the right wing nuts making a big deal out of this, media, and less than 1% of population, so strangely it IS bigger than 1%? Or maybe we just have to cover our six, for legal?

As with the cv19 fallout and more sedentary children out there, we are also seeing a shift in teaching curriculum mandate. They are not saying it is b/c cv19, but they now want teachers to shift to a 'movement' based pedagogy.

Where the heck are you getting this (drivel) from?

There's a going to need to be a big effort to get kids back on track in reading, writing, math...big fall off due to pandemic, especially among lower socio-economic groups where parents couldn't stay home and pick up the teaching slack, weren't as equipped as some parents to do so. But also at higher income groups.

AND there's going to be a substantial need for kids to recover emotionally from the disruption...and from the constant barrage of angry, divisive messages in social media feeds, and of course the rapidly escalating traumas they feel in mass school shootings. It doesn't need to be at their school, just the sense that it's happening more and more, unexpectedly, any moment...and the 'ask' they are overwhelmingly making to address this violence is being ignored by the older generation, as manifested in right wing legislatures and the Courts...kids know this is happening.

Both of these priorities are very much on the minds of educators, both in the classroom and with the administrators.

BTW, I googled "movement based education pedagogy"...try it..is that what you mean?

I honestly do not know what you were trying to convey, you just piled on to my point. My post had two points, one WRT trans issue in school and counseling and the second was about teaching curriculum changes in the state.

To your last question....yes.

[Farfromgeneva]

Many of the students in the LGTBQ+ community in our schools do not feel they can talk to their parent(s) about their development. They talk to the school counselor. The school counselor provides support for the student. Our school added a counselor this year with no increase to our population. Students used to ask me to go the counselor and I usually would ask them what was going on, etc. - not so much anymore. My response typically depends on my how well I know the student and other factors like the sense of urgency on the students face. This is not limited to the LGTBQ+ students. Since we returned to school from the pandemic the amount of students asking to see the counselors has increased 3 fold. There is a lot of kid drama at the middle school age these days more than ever.

Anytime a teacher is presenting information about sensitive subjects there are going to be questions. Not every question has a cut and dry answer. Sometimes the teachers answer, IMO, is a form of promoting a certain angle to a subject rather than providing information. This happens in history/language arts class, etc. on a different level as well. Rather than answer some of these questions, the teacher should refer the student(s) to the counselor. Most health teachers who cover these subjects have an anonymous question box in their classroom where students can place questions they have. The teacher will then either answer the question in the next class or consult with the counselor.

Thanks for sharing your experience...

Was the new counselor added due mostly to trans issues? Then you mention the pandemic and sounds like lockdown at your school... trans issues then just part of reason for add'l counselor? Do you have a sense that trans issues increased since the pandemic? Most likely tough to say...

Have kids displaying trans or trans interest been bullied at your school?

As a parent I would insist I be told about any reason my child is talking with a counselor at school, not just trans issues. Assuming there's no abuse going on at home, isn't that every parent's right? And it seems to me that if parents are paying attention, they already know something is up, or at least should know.

Great questions....and yet we have been told its just the right wing nuts making a big deal out of this, media, and less than 1% of population, so strangely it IS bigger than 1%? Or maybe we just have to cover our six, for legal?

As with the cv19 fallout and more sedentary children out there, we are also seeing a shift in teaching curriculum mandate. They are not saying it is b/c cv19, but they now want teachers to shift to a 'movement' based pedagogy.

Where the heck are you getting this (drivel) from?

There's a going to need to be a big effort to get kids back on track in reading, writing, math...big fall off due to pandemic, especially among lower socio-economic groups where parents couldn't stay home and pick up the teaching slack, weren't as equipped as some parents to do so. But also at higher income groups.

AND there's going to be a substantial need for kids to recover emotionally from the disruption...and from the constant barrage of angry, divisive messages in social media feeds, and of course the rapidly escalating traumas they feel in mass school shootings. It doesn't need to be at their school, just the sense that it's happening more and more, unexpectedly, any moment...and the 'ask' they are overwhelmingly making to address this violence is being ignored by the older generation, as manifested in right wing legislatures and the Courts...kids know this is happening.

Both of these priorities are very much on the minds of educators, both in the classroom and with the administrators.

BTW, I googled "movement based education pedagogy"...try it..is that what you mean?

I was so excited for this Google search only to be let down…

[a fan]

As a parent I would insist I be told about any reason my child is talking with a counselor at school, not just trans issues. Assuming there's no abuse going on at home, isn't that every parent's right?

That's a no, Tech, and I'm certain of this for at least Colorado. Generally speaking, we're talking doctor-patient privilege here. Don't know of any States that don't have these protections....maybe a lawyer can chime in.

From the American School Counselor Assn's summary on confidentiality:

The counseling relationship between students and their school counselor requires an atmosphere of trust and confidence. Students must trust the school counselor to be able to enter into a meaningful and honest dialogue with the school counselor (Iyer & Baxter-MacGregor, 2010). However, students should be informed that exceptions to confidentiality exist in which school counselors must inform others of information they obtained in the counseling relationship to prevent serious and foreseeable harm to students themselves or others and if it is legally required

What kid is going to open up if they know full well their parents will hear every word?

[MDlaxfan76]

Many of the students in the LGTBQ+ community in our schools do not feel they can talk to their parent(s) about their development. They talk to the school counselor. The school counselor provides support for the student. Our school added a counselor this year with no increase to our population. Students used to ask me to go the counselor and I usually would ask them what was going on, etc. - not so much anymore. My response typically depends on my how well I know the student and other factors like the sense of urgency on the students face. This is not limited to the LGTBQ+ students. Since we returned to school from the pandemic the amount of students asking to see the counselors has increased 3 fold. There is a lot of kid drama at the middle school age these days more than ever.

Anytime a teacher is presenting information about sensitive subjects there are going to be questions. Not every question has a cut and dry answer. Sometimes the teachers answer, IMO, is a form of promoting a certain angle to a subject rather than providing information. This happens in history/language arts class, etc. on a different level as well. Rather than answer some of these questions, the teacher should refer the student(s) to the counselor. Most health teachers who cover these subjects have an anonymous question box in their classroom where students can place questions they have. The teacher will then either answer the question in the next class or consult with the counselor.

Thanks for sharing your experience...

Was the new counselor added due mostly to trans issues? Then you mention the pandemic and sounds like lockdown at your school... trans issues then just part of reason for add'l counselor? Do you have a sense that trans issues increased since the pandemic? Most likely tough to say...

Have kids displaying trans or trans interest been bullied at your school?

As a parent I would insist I be told about any reason my child is talking with a counselor at school, not just trans issues. Assuming there's no abuse going on at home, isn't that every parent's right? And it seems to me that if parents are paying attention, they already know something is up, or at least should know.

Great questions....and yet we have been told its just the right wing nuts making a big deal out of this, media, and less than 1% of population, so strangely it IS bigger than 1%? Or maybe we just have to cover our six, for legal?

As with the cv19 fallout and more sedentary children out there, we are also seeing a shift in teaching curriculum mandate. They are not saying it is b/c cv19, but they now want teachers to shift to a 'movement' based pedagogy.

Where the heck are you getting this (drivel) from?

There's a going to need to be a big effort to get kids back on track in reading, writing, math...big fall off due to pandemic, especially among lower socio-economic groups where parents couldn't stay home and pick up the teaching slack, weren't as equipped as some parents to do so. But also at higher income groups.

AND there's going to be a substantial need for kids to recover emotionally from the disruption...and from the constant barrage of angry, divisive messages in social media feeds, and of course the rapidly escalating traumas they feel in mass school shootings. It doesn't need to be at their school, just the sense that it's happening more and more, unexpectedly, any moment...and the 'ask' they are overwhelmingly making to address this violence is being ignored by the older generation, as manifested in right wing legislatures and the Courts...kids know this is happening.

Both of these priorities are very much on the minds of educators, both in the classroom and with the administrators.

BTW, I googled "movement based education pedagogy"...try it..is that what you mean?

I honestly do not know what you were trying to convey, you just piled on to my point. My post had two points, one WRT trans issue in school and counseling and the second was about teaching curriculum changes in the state.

To your last question....yes.

To the last, is that a problem? Sounds a bit like "Stand and Deliver".

I do know that getting kids up and moving is beneficial to engagement and engagement is certainly useful in learning. Not remotely a student of the pedagogy though!

The "drivel" comment was about the media exaggerating the issue around trans (right wing media certainly is) and right wing legislatures passing scores of laws specifically sending a negative message to LGBTQ+ folks regarding their views on gender...largely driven by right wing christianity, though not exclusively. I don't think the "mainstream media" is exaggerating that issue.

And it seemed like you were tying "shift in curriculum" to something the right wing parents claim, that teachers are teaching a curriculum that they don't like...sounds like maybe a misread that point. Perhaps by a country mile?

Adding counselors is obviously for many reasons, definitely not driven by trans in particular...maybe right wing media claims that's the case, but I've never heard it claimed on mainstream discussions of the needs of kids coming off the pandemic. As it is, there've been too little attention paid to emotional health IMO, as emotional health gets in the way of productive learning...there are all sorts of inputs to why emotional health can be off...and asking teachers to be the only way to detect and address problems is just asking for trouble.

For instance, when kids are emotionally shaky they are most vulnerable to predatory behavior. My old high school is coming off its second scandal of such a breach in the past decade...and that's been a problem at schools for decades.

[a fan]

Adding counselors is obviously for many reasons, definitely not driven by trans in particular...maybe right wing media claims that's the case, but I've never heard it claimed on mainstream discussions of the needs of kids coming off the pandemic. As it is, there've been too little attention paid to emotional health IMO, as emotional health gets in the way of productive learning...there are all sorts of inputs to why emotional health can be off...and asking teachers to be the only way to detect and address problems is just asking for trouble.

The reason that folks are seeing more activity with counselors and therapists is simple: post pandemic, Americans have put a premium on discussing mental health out in the open. When i was growing up, "seeing a shrink" meant you were damaged, and unfit for employment.

See: the Sopranos. Show started in 1999, and back then seeing a shrink was seen as a weakness, or that you were unfit for the world.

That ship has sailed, and folks talk about mental health at dinner parties in the same breath as "where are the cream puffs?" It's not stigmatized anymore. It's encouraged. This, imho, is a great thing.

Has NOTHING to do with the rightwingmedia hysteria over Trans or "they're coming for your children" nonsense. Americans have to step up and stop falling for politician's tricks designed to foment outrage, and get you to vote for them so that "the gays go away".

[tech37]

As a parent I would insist I be told about any reason my child is talking with a counselor at school, not just trans issues. Assuming there's no abuse going on at home, isn't that every parent's right?

That's a no, Tech, and I'm certain of this for at least Colorado. Generally speaking, we're talking doctor-patient privilege here. Don't know of any States that don't have these protections....maybe a lawyer can chime in.

From the American School Counselor Assn's summary on confidentiality:

The counseling relationship between students and their school counselor requires an atmosphere of trust and confidence. Students must trust the school counselor to be able to enter into a meaningful and honest dialogue with the school counselor (Iyer & Baxter-MacGregor, 2010). However, students should be informed that exceptions to confidentiality exist in which school counselors must inform others of information they obtained in the counseling relationship to prevent serious and foreseeable harm to students themselves or others and if it is legally required

What kid is going to open up if they know full well their parents will hear every word?

Well then I disagree with "American School Counselor Assn's summary on confidentiality."

IMO, unless a child is emancipated or 18 yo, the parent's rights come first.

I would question why children should be afforded all that confidentiality anyway?

As far as kids opening up... you're bolded copy is quite broad. Couldn't it be argued that, withholding information from parents could cause distrust between parent and child, eroding parent-child relationship, that may be harmful to the student?

[MDlaxfan76]

As a parent I would insist I be told about any reason my child is talking with a counselor at school, not just trans issues. Assuming there's no abuse going on at home, isn't that every parent's right?

That's a no, Tech, and I'm certain of this for at least Colorado. Generally speaking, we're talking doctor-patient privilege here. Don't know of any States that don't have these protections....maybe a lawyer can chime in.

From the American School Counselor Assn's summary on confidentiality:

The counseling relationship between students and their school counselor requires an atmosphere of trust and confidence. Students must trust the school counselor to be able to enter into a meaningful and honest dialogue with the school counselor (Iyer & Baxter-MacGregor, 2010). However, students should be informed that exceptions to confidentiality exist in which school counselors must inform others of information they obtained in the counseling relationship to prevent serious and foreseeable harm to students themselves or others and if it is legally required

What kid is going to open up if they know full well their parents will hear every word?

Well then I disagree with "American School Counselor Assn's summary on confidentiality."

IMO, unless a child is emancipated or 18 yo, the parent's rights come first.

I would question why children should be afforded all that confidentiality anyway?

As far as kids opening up... you're bolded copy is quite broad. Couldn't it be argued that, withholding information from parents could cause distrust between parent and child, eroding parent-child relationship, that may be harmful to the student?

what are "parent's rights"???

Are these Constitutional rights?

Ethical rights?

Statutory rights?

And if not, what are you proposing?

[a fan]

Well then I disagree with "American School Counselor Assn's summary on confidentiality."

IMO, unless a child is emancipated or 18 yo, the parent's rights come first.

Well, the law disagrees with you.

Do you have years of training on how to spot a kid who's suicidal? Or how about spotting a kid that's been mentally or physically abused?

A counselor is a tremendous asset, provided free of charge for kids. If you want to keep your kid from having any influence from
influence from anyone that isn't you, home schooling is at your disposal.

Heck, some of the best advice I've gotten was from my lacrosse coach. You are telling me here...whether you know it or not..... that any time a Coach talks to a kid about anything other than ground balls...you want him to call the kids parents, and go over the conversation. Or alternatively, shut the kid down, and tell him he can't talk about anything but lacrosse. That's....a bit much.

That said, there are parents around the country who agree with you, and are looking to compel teachers and counselors to breach the confidentiality when it comes to LGBTQ, without understanding how cruel that is. They're directly isolating these kids who will know perfectly well that they can't come out to a counselor. So the other kids get confidentiality....and they don't. This is hateful stuff, if you ask me, and I know you didn't.

As a parent, I'm OVERJOYED that my daughter has access to a trained adult that can help her sort things out, and have ZERO interest in turning that counselor into a spy. You differ, apparently, as is your right. So we can agree to disagree.

Do you have kids?

I would question why children should have all that confidentiality anyway?

So they can open up and get advice and/or a friendly ear from a trained professional, Tech. Or would you prefer kids ONLY get advice from 15 year old average Americans (idiots) while at school?

I lost two friends in HS to suicide. From where I sat, both suicides came out of nowhere. Our county had the highest suicide rate in the nation when I was there. We didn't have access to counseling or mental health services, because in Colorado, taxes are bad.

As far as kids opening up... you're bolded copy is quite broad. Couldn't it be argued that, withholding information from parents could cause distrust between parent and child, eroding parent-child relationship, that may be harmful to the student?

If you're starting from a position of paranoia, sure. Have you ever been to therapy? If anything, therapists encourage patients to have better communication with family and friends, not the other way around.

[tech37]

Well then I disagree with "American School Counselor Assn's summary on confidentiality."

IMO, unless a child is emancipated or 18 yo, the parent's rights come first.

Well, the law disagrees with you.

Do you have years of training on how to spot a kid who's suicidal? Or how about spotting a kid that's been mentally or physically abused?
Seriously a fan, I find it impossible to communicate with you. I said right away in my first post to KI Bar (whom I hope to hear from at some point, if they weren't scared away on here)... I said, "assuming there's no abuse at home."

Yes, a counselor worth their salt would/should spot this or they shouldn't be a school counselor.

A counselor is a tremendous asset, provided free of charge for kids. If you want to keep your kid from having any influence from
influence from anyone that isn't you, home schooling is at your disposal.
You're stating the obvious.

Heck, some of the best advice I've gotten was from my lacrosse coach. You are telling me here...whether you know it or not..... that any time a Coach talks to a kid about anything other than ground balls...you want him to call the kids parents, and go over the conversation. Or alternatively, shut the kid down, and tell him he can't talk about anything but lacrosse. That's....a bit much.
Really, really silly analogy.

That said, there are parents around the country who agree with you, and are looking to compel teachers and counselors to breach the confidentiality when it comes to LGBTQ, without understanding how cruel that is. They're directly isolating these kids who will know perfectly well that they can't come out to a counselor. So the other kids get confidentiality....and they don't. This is hateful stuff, if you ask me, and I know you didn't.
Stop isolating the trans stuff (straw man)... I didn't do that. I include that within all issues a counselor may have to contend with.

"hateful stuff"... BS straw man again.

As a parent, I'm OVERJOYED that my daughter has access to a trained adult that can help her sort things out, and have ZERO interest in turning that counselor into a spy. You differ, apparently, as is your right. So we can agree to disagree.
Spy? Holy sh!t a fan, I'm sorry that's just weird.

Do you have kids?
You know I do or obviously you haven't been paying attention over the years on both LP and fanlax (fanlax is a terrible name btw).

Anecdotally speaking, for four years I worked closely with both my daughter's guidance counselor and school psychologist. It was not a "walk in the park." When she was little I referred to her as the alpha toddler and it certainly didn't get any easier as she morphed into adolescence. I'm not waving a flag but she is now working full-time, has healthy relationships, and heading off to college in the fall. Without the access and transparency I had with her counselors, we probably would not have the strong relationship she and I now have and she might not be moving on in a such good direction.

I would question why children should have all that confidentiality anyway?

So they can open up and get advice and/or a friendly ear from a trained professional, Tech. Or would you prefer kids ONLY get advice from 15 year old average Americans (idiots) while at school?
Redundant IMO.

I lost two friends in HS to suicide. From where I sat, both suicides came out of nowhere. Our county had the highest suicide rate in the nation when I was there. We didn't have access to counseling or mental health services, because in Colorado, taxes are bad.
I'm very sorry to hear that.

[a fan]

Seriously a fan, I find it impossible to communicate with you. I said right away in my first post to KI Bar (whom I hope to hear from at some point, if they weren't scared away on here)... I said, "assuming there's no abuse at home."

Yes, a counselor worth their salt would/should spot this or they shouldn't be a school counselor.

Respectfully, you're not thinking it through, Tech. I read what you said. You're not thinking about the consequences of your view.

What kid is going to confide in a counselor if they know that everything EXCEPT abuse will be reported to their parents? Not gonna happen. They won't get to the point where abuse is reported in the first place. They'll never show up. I sure as sh(t wouldn't. Would you show up knowing your parents would hear every word? Think about it.

Really, really silly analogy.

How is it a silly analogy? It's not an analogy in the first place, my man. You're telling me that parents have a right to all non-educational/sports conversations between adults and your child at School. That puts the Coach on the hook. The coach doesn't get to decide what to tell you...in your view, YOU have that power, not the Coach. So the Coach is on the hook to tell all.

Stop isolating the trans stuff (straw man)... I didn't do that. I include that within all issues a counselor may have to contend with.

It's not a straw man. It's happening all over America. I'm not directing this at YOU. I'm telling you what's happening, and that these specific new laws agree with your view that parent's rights to know should trump kid's rights to privacy. That's all, and nothing more.

I think that's where we're talking past each other: laws are being passed, right now, that COMPEL School staff to tell parents about professional conversations with their kids. That's the context I'm working from. If you aren't? Then that's the problem we're having with one another.

Spy? Holy sh!t a fan, I'm sorry that's just weird.

How is being happy that my daughter has access to a counselor that doesn't report sessions to me weird?

You know I do or obviously you haven't been paying attention over the years on both LP and fanlax (fanlax is a terrible name btw).

I don't recall you mentioning kids, sorry I missed it. Didn't want to put words in your mouth....something you flip out over when I do, remember?

Anecdotally speaking, for four years I worked closely with both my daughter's guidance counselor and school psychologist. It was not a "walk in the park." When she was little I referred to her as the alpha toddler and it certainly didn't get any easier as she morphed into adolescence. I'm not waving a flag but she is now working full-time, has healthy relationships, and heading off to college in the fall. Without the access and transparency I had with her counselors, we probably would not have the strong relationship we now have and she might not be moving on in a such good direction.

Well, let's be clear here: did the counselors give you reports from every session? Or are you simply communicating to me that you worked together with counselors to work on known problems? Known as in: issues you spoke about with your daughter & counselor BEFORE sessions.

More to the direct point: did these professional tell you everything your daughter told them in a closed session?

[tech37]

Seriously a fan, I find it impossible to communicate with you. I said right away in my first post to KI Bar (whom I hope to hear from at some point, if they weren't scared away on here)... I said, "assuming there's no abuse at home."

Yes, a counselor worth their salt would/should spot this or they shouldn't be a school counselor.

Respectfully, you're not thinking it through, Tech. I read what you said. You're not thinking about the consequences of your view.
May be, maybe not. Obviously we've reached an impasse. Basically within the context of public school, you want to empower children and I want to empower parents. (tax-paying parents I'd add)

Really, really silly analogy.

How is it a silly analogy? It's not an analogy in the first place, my man. You're telling me that parents have a right to all non-educational/sports conversations between adults and your child at School. That puts the Coach on the hook. The coach doesn't get to decide what to tell you...in your view, YOU have that power, not the Coach. So the Coach is on the hook to tell all.
Right, I meant "example" not analogy. All of this is beyond a coach's purview and not relevant, IMO. If a coach senses a kid is in trouble, the coach needs to share that with a school counselor.

Stop isolating the trans stuff (straw man)... I didn't do that. I include that within all issues a counselor may have to contend with.

It's not a straw man. It's happening all over America. I'm not directing this at YOU. I'm telling you what's happening, and that these specific new laws agree with your view that parent's rights to know should trump kid's rights to privacy. That's all, and nothing more.
Exactly.

I think that's where we're talking past each other: laws are being passed, right now, that COMPEL School staff to tell parents about professional conversations with their kids. That's the context I'm working from. If you aren't? Then that's the problem we're having with one another.
If you want to decrease, for example; suicides, shootings, or unnecessary and very premature and invasive medical procedures, having parents involved increases the chances of better outcomes.

You know I do or obviously you haven't been paying attention over the years on both LP and fanlax (fanlax is a terrible name btw).

I don't recall you mentioning kids, sorry I missed it. Didn't want to put words in your mouth....something you flip out over when I do, remember?
Yep okay, well I don't often share personal stuff on here but have mentioned my daughter one than once over the years.

Anecdotally speaking, for four years I worked closely with both my daughter's guidance counselor and school psychologist. It was not a "walk in the park." When she was little I referred to her as the alpha toddler and it certainly didn't get any easier as she morphed into adolescence. I'm not waving a flag but she is now working full-time, has healthy relationships, and heading off to college in the fall. Without the access and transparency I had with her counselors, we probably would not have the strong relationship we now have and she might not be moving on in a such good direction.

Well, let's be clear here: did the counselors give you reports from every session? Or are you simply communicating to me that you worked together with counselors to work on known problems? Known as in: issues you spoke about with your daughter & counselor BEFORE sessions.

More to the direct point: did these professional tell you everything your daughter told them in a closed session?
Who would know? I trust that the counselor and psychologist shared all relevant info with me. More than one time, I was contacted re something I already knew about.

The good news, whether you agree or not, is that my approach/thinking on this has worked for us.

Gotta run... busy weekend.

[a fan]

May be, maybe not. Obviously we've reached an impasse. Basically within the context of public school, you want to empower children and I want to empower parents. (tax-paying parents I'd add)

Some HS students work and pay taxes. I know I did.

To be clear: you want to change the current system, and the ONLY way to do that is to pass laws. You can't compel a professional to violate their code of ethics. And their code of ethics includes following the law. Therefore changing the laws are the only way to get them to serve parents first, and children second.

And I'm telling you, that if you pass these laws, the coach I mentioned will now be on the hook to tell parents EVERYTHING. They don't get to decide for themselves what they do and don't tell you.....or risk firing, lawsuits, and in some cases that folks are trying to put on the book....criminal prosecution.

The current system protects the student in every State I'm aware of today. Respectfully, you were clearly a great and involved parent. Not every kid gets that, tech. Picture that, and walk through what you are asking. I was a smart enough kid in HS to ask counselors what they had to report to my parents. There is NO WAY I would open up in that setting if I knew the counselor would legally compel them to rat me out to my parents.

THAT is why I don't like what you're suggesting we do, Tech. Your proposed laws (again, that's the only path to get what you're asking for here) will make it so that kids won't use counselors. Because the FIRST thing out of a Counselor's mouth in session #1 is: "I'm legally compelled to tell your parents about every word you utter in here".

Right, I meant "example" not analogy. All of this is beyond a coach's purview and not relevant, IMO. If a coach senses a kid is in trouble, the coach needs to share that with a school counselor.

Again, I'm sorry, but you're wrong here. If you pass the laws you're asking for, Coaches will have to announce on the first day of practice that they're legally compelled to tell their parents every private, non-lacrosse utterance. Think about what will happen the first summer after your law passes: School District lawyers will brief EVERYONE who works at the school. And lay out what makes them liable.

This happened after the shoddily written "Don't Say Gay" law in Florida......lawyers come in, and brief employees as to what they can and can't say. Sadly, that law was written by monkeys with typewriters, so the message was: "we truly have no idea what you can and can't say, and we'll get back to you later"......and never got back to them. It's a mess.

Who would know? I trust that the counselor and psychologist shared all relevant info with me. More than one time, I was contacted re something I already knew about.

The good news, whether you agree or not, is that my approach/thinking on this has worked for us.

Gotta run... busy weekend.

Tells me that you were and are a wonderful parent, and that the professional felt they weren't violating their code by working with you and your daughter as a team, sharing some of the information they received from her. Not every kid gets parents like you, and I'm guessing you know that. It's good to remember that when you're asking for sweeping laws, imho. I'm hoping to be as good of a parent as you with my own daughter.

That said, the odds that they told you EVERYTHING your daughter said is close to zero.

[MDlaxfan76]

Especially if she said she was scared to tell her parent; doesn't mean that the fear is based in physical abuse.

Just not ready to handle the disapproval. Needs an adult to talk to, confidentially.

Professionals, not their first rodeos.

[youthathletics]

So where does the counselor go if it is serious? Bypass the parents and straight to the State? Nope.....not advised.

There is a lot of innuendo flying around, without any cited facts on what School Counselors are 'legally/ethically' obligated to do.

Section A.6.a clearly states to collaborate with all parties. And when serious A.9.A spells it out.

Just a quick query:

A. 6. Appropriate Collaboration, Advocacy and Referrals for Counseling

School counselors:

(a) Collaborate with all relevant stakeholders, including students, school faculty/staff and parents/guardians, when students need assistance, including when early warning signs of student distress are identified.

(b) Provide a list of outside agencies and resources in their community, or the closest available, to students and parents/guardians when students need or request additional support. School counselors provide multiple referral options or the district-vetted list of referrals options and are careful not to indicate an endorsement or preference for one individual or practice. School counselors encourage parents/guardians to research outside professionals’ skills/experience to inform their personal decision regarding the best source of assistance for their student.

(c)Connect students with services provided through the local school district and community agencies and remain aware of state laws and local district policies related to students with special needs, including limits to confidentiality and notification to authorities as appropriate.

(d) Develop a plan for the transitioning of primary counseling services with minimal interruption of services. Students retain the right for the referred services to be conducted in coordination with the school counselor or to discontinue counseling services with the school counselor while maintaining an appropriate relationship that may include participation in other school support services.

(e) Refrain from referring students based solely on the school counselor’s personal beliefs or values rooted in one’s religion, culture, ethnicity or personal worldview. School counselors maintain the highest respect for student cultural identities and worldviews. School counselors pursue additional training and supervision when their values are discriminatory in nature (e.g., sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression, reproductive rights, race, religion, ability status). School counselors do not impose their values on students and/or families when making referrals to outside resources for student and/or family support.

(f) Attempt to establish a collaborative relationship with outside service providers to best serve students. Request a release of information signed by the student and/or parents/guardians before attempting to collaborate with the student’s external provider.

(g)vProvide internal and external service providers with accurate and meaningful data necessary to adequately assess, counsel and assist students.

(h) Ensure there is not a conflict of interest in providing referral resources. School counselors do not refer or accept a referral to counsel students from their school if they also work in a private counseling practice.

A. 9. Serious and Foreseeable Harm to Self and Others

School counselors:

(a) Inform parents/guardians and school administration when a student poses a serious and foreseeable risk of harm to self or others. This notification is to be done after careful deliberation and consultation with appropriate professionals, such as other school counselors, the school nurse, school psychologist, school social worker, school resource officer or child protective services. Even if the danger appears relatively remote, parents/guardians must be notified. The consequence of the risk of not giving parents/guardians a chance to intervene on behalf of their child is too great.