Who said that Asians are more "diligent" than some other group?get it to x wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 7:08 pmFairness is a funny thing. In a limited admittance situation, in order to make it fair for one group you need to make it unfair to another group. If Asians are more diligent than your average person, is it unfair for them to get shut out at the window of opportunity? On a national level, there are almost unlimited paths to success, provided you have access to a decent school and the right attitude. We need to instill a culture of achievement vs a culture of victimhood. It will be a long, uphill climb. And it's not just minority students. Have you seen some of those "Man in the street" interviews where young white people can't answer even the most basic of questions? Like what continent the US is a part of?MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 6:47 pmThat reality makes me sad as well.get it to x wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 6:32 pmYour last paragraph makes me sad. People are often victims of themselves and their own lack of initiative. Stop telling people they don't stand a chance because of their circumstances. They might believe you.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 5:46 pmA fully equal opportunity society is definitely the dream, but it simply ain't the reality in our predominantly capitalist society. Socio-economic advantages in opportunity are rather massive...it's not a caste system, but there are many more advantages than our dream would have them be.get it to x wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 5:32 pmReady to pay, or at least divert some of our taxes away from corrupt institutions. We are a better country when everyone has a shot at success, whether it's as a chemical engineer or a master electrician. All of the best jobs require a skillset that requires a basic mastery of key subjects, mainly mathematics and reading, along with some critical thinking skill.a fan wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 5:25 pmYeah, but we already do the "division" game, fellas. Go to an average inner city or uber rural K-12 and look at the facilities and average teacher pay.....then go to the rich burbs and walk around on campuses that look like DIII colleges, with teachers pulling down six figure salaries. Then tell me we don't have division right out of the gate.youthathletics wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:50 pmThat's my point. At some point we have to move past it. Certainly is hard to achieve when there is no transformational leadership...and it seems the SCOTUS also understands this.get it to x wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:39 pmDiversity and division have the same root.youthathletics wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:23 pmIs that because you do not trust whitey? At some point, or maybe I am just too naïve, we have to be in a position to scrub all this silo crapola and just begin to move on as one.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:48 pm... I don't think we can or should move away from the statistics. The silos will still exist, it just makes it easier for the those interested in keeping minorities down to hide what they are doing. This move is not going to make minorities more trusting of the oligarchy. It is also not going to make the various minorities more trusting of each other either.youthathletics wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:17 pmCounterpoint.... In short, a 'rising tide lifts all boats', and the current standard of admissions is a complete dump show. Admissions created this problem in the first place. The end goal should be that there are no stats based on race, ethnicity, creed, gender, etc. We needed those stats as we navigated our history these last 100 years, maybe....just maybe, we can move past all these silos and truly become symbiotic.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 2:49 pm ... After reading / listening to a lot of different folks, this will likely result in a loud cry on campuses for the abandonment of legacy admits. A number of the top schools, but not all have done this already. Those that have not are going to take a lot of grief. Likely athletic preference will take a hit as well. This is going to cause every group on campus to go after the sacred cows they object to most. This will result in questioning diversity well beyond the traditional race and ethnicity boxes. Why are we admitting international students, etc. This can do so much harm to the American educational system in the overreaction.
You gents willing to pay up and fix this "division"? My read from the National Republican party and 100% of their leaders has been a big, fat, "no".
I know some local Republicans who think this is catastrophic.......leaving all that talent on the sidelines, and refusing to invest in America's future. But I can't name a single National Republican who has any sort of plan to fix this gap. They're not even talking about it. Taxes are bad. Government is bad.
You guys sound like you disagree with that crew. Am I right?
But the sentiment is right to try and at least get closer to that opportunity society in which people can achieve what their efforts, genetic good fortunes and raw luck allow at an equal rate of probability rather than stacked easier for some than others by societally constructed frictions on some, advantages for others.
Starting with at least agreement on the sentiment makes a lot of sense.
Unfortunately, a whole lot of folks either really don't want such an opportunity society, at least not for all, and others are in severe denial of the structural advantages they currently enjoy.
Your subsequent statements make my point, or at least my "in denial" point.
Presumably you don't want those advantages to be unfair.
But the in denial crowd enable the don't want to lose advantage crowd to maintain the realities.
Fortunately, there are also at least some people who indeed counsel initiative and resilience in the face of disadvantage, offering a little helping hand, a little encouragement.
Denial crowd doesn't participate unfortunately. They just scold and berate and put down...
Or do you mean (generalization acknowledged) that Asian Americans in specific have focused their diligence on academics sometimes to the exclusion of other pursuits?