youthathletics wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 11:42 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:58 am
So...who is likely to
actually benefit versus who assumes they will benefit?
I'm going to use generalized terms below, but obviously sentiments are not uniform, I'm just talking about the generalized demographics.
Certainly, for now Asians, who currently over 2.5X overrepresented in the most highly selective schools relative to share of US population, but hope to achieve an even greater share of admissions. That's who ostensibly sued.
But who backed those suits and are cheering, thinking they will gain a larger share going forward?
Whites...and particularly white men. Rich white men and their families financially backed the suit, lots of other white men were led to believe the current situation is unfair to them...so think they should cheer.
https://www.boston.com/news/the-boston- ... tion-case/
Men receive the largest boost in admissions benefit on average, so...when does the challenge to gender-based admissions happen? Surely the targets of gender balance are discriminatory?
Women would hold way more admissions acceptances if we decided to only consider high school test scores and SAT's...close to 60:40.
Whites, whether rich or poor, think they are being discriminated again because some Blacks and Hispanics are accepted with lower scores than some white men who are rejected. And yet, Blacks and Hispanics remain under-respected proportionally in these schools.
So, what are these schools, which believe in their brains, hearts, and guts that a diverse campus improves the educational experience of all of the students going to do?
Are they just going to accept double, triple the number of Asian students and eliminate most Black and Hispanic and Native, etc acceptances? Are they going to accept 60% women, 40% men?
Nope, I think what we'll see is alternative ways to accomplish the various cultural and demographic balances that the schools are looking to achieve.
I think we'll see higher emphasis on socio-economic status and an elimination in legacy advantage. And yes, there will be increasing percentages of women versus men.
Asians will likely grow a little, but where the give-up will come is with Whites, and particularly white men.
Teeth gnashing to come...
If an application for a college does not, or cannot include race....how do you come to assume continued racial inequality? Seems the barometer would be entirely on grades, extra-curriculars, test scores, maybe financials. When I interview candidates for hire, I do not look at their CV until after the initial interview.
Why do I assume that people with high socio-economic status have superior test scores?
Because they do.
Test scores tend to measure prior opportunity, not potential.
How you grow up, with parents that read to their children, with clean water, good nutrition, no violence in the neighborhood, the quality of local school (mostly driven by tax base), extra tutoring, all skew test scores toward high socio-economic status.
Note, at these highly selective schools, no one gets admitted who doesn't have quite terrific prior demonstrated performance and potential...all meet the school's assessment that they can do the work and thrive academically. Prior preparation does matter.
But they don't simply take the top 2,000 test scores and admit them to achieve a class of say 1,200.
Rather, they have a wider aperture for potential success when looking at the say 30,000 initial applications. Note, that 30,000 actually felt they had a shot at such a school saying yes, so these aren't the rest of the 5 million applying each year. It's already the self-selected 1%. But at these schools, a say 6% acceptance rate from that 1% is typical. Some a little higher, some lower. But the overall trend is lower, as more super well qualified kids apply each year from not just all over the US but also from all over the world.
So, these schools then look at other factors so as to differentiate the students.
And this includes the various interests and passions of these students, as well as the experiences they can bring to share with fellow students.
These schools believe deeply that all students they end up admitting benefit educationally and developmentally from the myriad of opportunities to explore those interest and passions more deeply with others as well benefit from the wide diversity of prior experiences the students bring.
Homogeneity is the opposite of their goal, though they ARE looking for high aspiration and commitment, potential leadership attributes, as common features.
So, they have goals and targets each year so as to be sure to accomplish this diversity of students.
10 male lacrosse players...
So, my prediction is that they are going to more heavily weight factors that de facto help those who are disproportionately at the lower end of the socio-economic strata, based on grit, determination to overcome, known disadvantages such as broken family, parents dead or in jail, experiences of racial or gender discrimination...these factors are not race per se, but the current reality in the US today is that these factors are disproportionately landing black and brown.
Affluent Asian students, like affluent white students, will need to differentiate among themselves based upon their interests and passions beyond their test scores.
Just like now, plenty of perfect SAT, straight A students will get rejected each year because that's all they have demonstrated performance in.
Understand that this is what the suit claims, that very high performing academic students were not getting in because they didn't have other demonstrated desirable qualities, and specifically it was claimed that Asian students were being disproportionately disadvantaged by those other aspects. For instance, Harvard has some measures around how the student has demonstrated empathy for others, sociability, "niceness"...the claim is that the Asian students weren't, in general scoring well...though obviously, many were doing so as Asians have 2.5X the number of admissions as their proportional share of population at Harvard. Some of these kids did and do find ways to demonstrate these qualities...but if all you do in your high school life is grind at academics, with a tutor's help, then not so desirable..."we have plenty of perfect SAT's" at Harvard...
And then we have the women versus men issue...their scores are simply higher...