The Hate Directed at the LGBTQ+

[runrussellrun]

No, not "lax bro" culture, rather the team culture on a terrific Dartmouth team.

https://premierlacrosseleague.com/artic ... n-come-out

It was an important national cultural moment, embraced by the Dartmouth community wholesale, led by the team's response.

I like the article ESPN did in 2015 better. The teammate who is quoted, Matt Nicholson, is a great guy very involved on Friends Board.

https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/13 ... y-athletes

Here's a great video piece, definitely worth watching!: https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/13536127

"pride" month IS almost over.......why the delay to any links ?

guess it doesn't fit your hatefilled narrative. and threads title.

Figured you wouldn't mention his name....yet, did mention Matt Nicholson. Odd, that.

mention his name? The articles are all about Goldstein.

I followed his career with lots of interest, especially as a tender.
Andrew was definitely the best goalie we had since Jimmy Ulkickas was an AA in '83, shortly after my years.
He was also one of only five 2X AA's since 1970.

IMO, Mitch Whitely should have also been twice an AA in the net in the early 70's, but he didn't get that honor. Deserved it IMO.

I never had Andrew's jets and daring out of the net, though he reminded me of the way my dad played...a blast to watch Andrew do his thing.

Just wondered what prompted you to provide a link, in the first place?

With less than 48 hours to go in PRIDE month ....

Especially when the PLL published the linked article on June 14th.

Why the delay

[MDlaxfan76]

No, not "lax bro" culture, rather the team culture on a terrific Dartmouth team.

https://premierlacrosseleague.com/artic ... n-come-out

It was an important national cultural moment, embraced by the Dartmouth community wholesale, led by the team's response.

I like the article ESPN did in 2015 better. The teammate who is quoted, Matt Nicholson, is a great guy very involved on Friends Board.

https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/13 ... y-athletes

Here's a great video piece, definitely worth watching!: https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/13536127

"pride" month IS almost over.......why the delay to any links ?

guess it doesn't fit your hatefilled narrative. and threads title.

Figured you wouldn't mention his name....yet, did mention Matt Nicholson. Odd, that.

mention his name? The articles are all about Goldstein.

I followed his career with lots of interest, especially as a tender.
Andrew was definitely the best goalie we had since Jimmy Ulkickas was an AA in '83, shortly after my years.
He was also one of only five 2X AA's since 1970.

IMO, Mitch Whitely should have also been twice an AA in the net in the early 70's, but he didn't get that honor. Deserved it IMO.

I never had Andrew's jets and daring out of the net, though he reminded me of the way my dad played...a blast to watch Andrew do his thing.

Just wondered what prompted you to provide a link, in the first place?

With less than 48 hours to go in PRIDE month ....

Especially when the PLL published the linked article on June 14th.

Why the delay

ugh, I'll respond but please don't make this another rathole to go down.

I don't follow the PLL hardly at all, certainly am not on media feeds from them.

But I do use google...you brought Goldstein up, with the comment about "lax bro" culture. No link.
The "lax bro" comment didn't jibe with my recollection.

So, I looked for it, provided it. Not "lax bro"...brotherhood, team culture. Good article, but there have been much better. Which I linked for those who might want to know more about the story...quite moving IMO.

You then personally attacked as if there might be some reason why I didn't use his name? Silly, dumb attack as everything I linked is about Andrew.

I was very aware of him first as a superb, exciting player, then the 'rest of the story' as Paul Harvey used to say. The Dartmouth lax community, indeed the whole of the Dartmouth community embraced Andrew and his story.

If you have some other point to make, please do it in a coherent fashion so we can appreciate and understand what you mean...please.

Or it can be dropped here with a thank you for elevating Andrew's story on this thread.
I recommend anyone, but especially any athletes and parents of athletes, to watch that video.

[jhu72]

Just another quack but I think she agrees with you, KI.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Fzrz8bQYI

... This should be viewed in the context of the ongoing "turf war" between psychiatrist and pretty much the rest of the medical community. This doctor (Miriam Grossman) is pretty much old school psychiatry - the old school that brought us the harmful practice now out of fashion (and illegal in many if not most places) of conversion therapy. Modern medical science has been eating away at the domain of psychiatry for decades, explaining problems long thought to be psychiatric "illness" and replacing with an explanation of biochemical variation. There is now indisputable scientific evidence that there is a physical genetic disconnect between SEX and GENDER. As far as I can tell, Grossman and friends don't recognize this. They are involved in an effort to protect their turf.

This means the thing which you / we have always thought there were only two, is at minimum a 2 by 2 matrix of 4 distinguishable states. Medical researchers / geneticists are currently investigating to determine the number of distinguishable states. Some describe it is a continuum. I personally doubt that. There is a discrete spectrum in my opinion, certainly more than 4 discrete states but not infinite.

PS: if you are looking for a reason to believe that this is different than it used to be, and think there must be a reason other than all this flew under the radar until now and attempt to chalk it up to being a FAD, I think you would be better off investigating it as perhaps an effect of all the chemical sh*t we put in the environment.

[runrussellrun]

don't you famously like to reply: "back to ignore"

Thank you for posting the link, btw. and reading my posts

the context of the "lax bro" comment, thought it was obvious. In relation to the first ever GAY athlete. this doesn't happen in your, MAGA, stereotypical "lax bro" lockerroom mentality.

you SURE you got a finger on the pulse of the Dartmouth faculty................

hint: Duke 88 and the "go to" joke for Jon Stewart.

without my prodding and egging on.......
....willing to bet ggaint never heard of him. Hate has a home , always, in the ggait dwelling. These true stories have no home, in his house of hate.


if I had posted the Andrew Goldstein link, instead of you.....it would have been "ignored". yes

exactly

[kramerica.inc]

Just another quack but I think she agrees with you, KI.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Fzrz8bQYI

... This should be viewed in the context of the ongoing "turf war" between psychiatrist and pretty much the rest of the medical community. This doctor (Miriam Grossman) is pretty much old school psychiatry - the old school that brought us the harmful practice now out of fashion (and illegal in many if not most places) of conversion therapy. Modern medical science has been eating away at the domain of psychiatry for decades, explaining problems long thought to be psychiatric "illness" and replacing with an explanation of biochemical variation. There is now indisputable scientific evidence that there is a physical genetic disconnect between SEX and GENDER. As far as I can tell, Grossman and friends don't recognize this. They are involved in an effort to protect their turf.

This means the thing which you / we have always thought there were only two, is at minimum a 2 by 2 matrix of 4 distinguishable states. Medical researchers / geneticists are currently investigating to determine the number of distinguishable states. Some describe it is a continuum. I personally doubt that. There is a discrete spectrum in my opinion, certainly more than 4 discrete states but not infinite.

What do you mean by "biochemical?" A variation that can change throughout a lifetime like hormones etc? Brain chemistry that can swing manic and depressive moods?
There is always a spectrum. In everything. Anything is POSSIBLE and even repeatable. We see that with physical birth variations. it's why statistical occurrence is importance to consider.

[jhu72]

Just another quack but I think she agrees with you, KI.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Fzrz8bQYI

... This should be viewed in the context of the ongoing "turf war" between psychiatrist and pretty much the rest of the medical community. This doctor (Miriam Grossman) is pretty much old school psychiatry - the old school that brought us the harmful practice now out of fashion (and illegal in many if not most places) of conversion therapy. Modern medical science has been eating away at the domain of psychiatry for decades, explaining problems long thought to be psychiatric "illness" and replacing with an explanation of biochemical variation. There is now indisputable scientific evidence that there is a physical genetic disconnect between SEX and GENDER. As far as I can tell, Grossman and friends don't recognize this. They are involved in an effort to protect their turf.

This means the thing which you / we have always thought there were only two, is at minimum a 2 by 2 matrix of 4 distinguishable states. Medical researchers / geneticists are currently investigating to determine the number of distinguishable states. Some describe it is a continuum. I personally doubt that. There is a discrete spectrum in my opinion, certainly more than 4 discrete states but not infinite.

What do you mean by "biochemical?" A variation that can change throughout a lifetime like hormones etc? Brain chemistry that can swing manic and depressive moods?
There is always a spectrum. In everything. Anything is POSSIBLE and even repeatable. We see that with physical birth variations. it's why statistical occurrence is importance to consider.

... at the genetic level specifically in this case which makes it less variable over time.

[Kismet]

As a middle school teacher my experience over the past few years is that we have gone from tolerance, to acceptance, to promotion - I am fully supportive of the first two, not so much the third. The pandemic has affected many of our youth in so many ways. I am not a counselor, but I believe this push by the LGBTQ+ community, and the media, will not serve our young people well in the long run. These students brains are not developed enough for them to making life changing decisions about their sexual orientation at this stage of their development. In addition, due to the effects of the pandemic, the adults trusted in guiding these youngsters are much more prone to be "supportive" in a way that they never would have been before.

I'll generally defer to your real-life experience in education but how do you explain the recent case in GA where a highly rated (over 10 years) teacher was fired for reading a best selling children's book to her 5th grade class which she acquired at the school's book fair - My Shadow is Purple After the reading, the class discussed the book’s message of acceptance of oneself and others and embracing diverse and complex identities and experiences. Some parents and another teacher (also a parent) complained. The young lady was recently terminated. Have to wonder what THAT taught the children.

https://cobbcountycourier.com/2023/06/i ... cepts-law/

Seems rather harsh to me - As I have previously mentioned I spent a career at a company where gay/lesbian staff was common and there were few, if any issues about it.

[MDlaxfan76]

As a middle school teacher my experience over the past few years is that we have gone from tolerance, to acceptance, to promotion - I am fully supportive of the first two, not so much the third. The pandemic has affected many of our youth in so many ways. I am not a counselor, but I believe this push by the LGBTQ+ community, and the media, will not serve our young people well in the long run. These students brains are not developed enough for them to making life changing decisions about their sexual orientation at this stage of their development. In addition, due to the effects of the pandemic, the adults trusted in guiding these youngsters are much more prone to be "supportive" in a way that they never would have been before.

I'll generally defer to your real-life experience in education but how do you explain the recent case in GA where a highly rated (over 10 years) teacher was fired for reading a best selling children's book to her 5th grade class which she acquired at the school's book fair - My Shadow is Purple After the reading, the class discussed the book’s message of acceptance of oneself and others and embracing diverse and complex identities and experiences. Some parents and another teacher (also a parent) complained. The young lady was recently terminated. Have to wonder what THAT taught the children.

https://cobbcountycourier.com/2023/06/i ... cepts-law/

Seems rather harsh to me - As I have previously mentioned I spent a career at a company where gay/lesbian staff was common and there were few, if any issues about it.

I think KI Dock Bar missed a step in "from tolerance, to acceptance, to promotion". Between "acceptance" and "promotion", there's "support" and there's "embrace"...those are NOT "promotion" nor is that an inevitable outcome!

But I think they're misread that way by those who were initially uncomfortable with "tolerance" but got over it, initially uncomfortable with "acceptance" but got over it..."support" feels like asking more from us, "embrace" feels like asking a lot more...uncomfortable...at first...

[NattyBohChamps04]

As a middle school teacher my experience over the past few years is that we have gone from tolerance, to acceptance, to promotion - I am fully supportive of the first two, not so much the third. The pandemic has affected many of our youth in so many ways. I am not a counselor, but I believe this push by the LGBTQ+ community, and the media, will not serve our young people well in the long run. These students brains are not developed enough for them to making life changing decisions about their sexual orientation at this stage of their development. In addition, due to the effects of the pandemic, the adults trusted in guiding these youngsters are much more prone to be "supportive" in a way that they never would have been before.

I'll generally defer to your real-life experience in education but how do you explain the recent case in GA where a highly rated (over 10 years) teacher was fired for reading a best selling children's book to her 5th grade class which she acquired at the school's book fair - My Shadow is Purple After the reading, the class discussed the book’s message of acceptance of oneself and others and embracing diverse and complex identities and experiences. Some parents and another teacher (also a parent) complained. The young lady was recently terminated. Have to wonder what THAT taught the children.

https://cobbcountycourier.com/2023/06/i ... cepts-law/

Seems rather harsh to me - As I have previously mentioned I spent a career at a company where gay/lesbian staff was common and there were few, if any issues about it.

I think KI Dock Bar missed a step in "from tolerance, to acceptance, to promotion". Between "acceptance" and "promotion", there's "support" and there's "embrace"...those are NOT "promotion" nor is that an inevitable outcome!

But I think they're misread that way by those who were initially uncomfortable with "tolerance" but got over it, initially uncomfortable with "acceptance" but got over it..."support" feels like asking more from us, "embrace" feels like asking a lot more...uncomfortable...at first...

Promotion is a weasel word too. It has nearly infinite meanings.

Are kids, schools, teachers promoting that it's ok to be gay or trans? Is that inherently bad?

What is the LGBT+ community and the media promoting as a whole that is damaging to young people as a whole?

We don't seem to question the brain development stages of young straight people as to when they make decisions on their sexuality or other aspects of their body. We're also not sending tons of straight kids to gay conversion therapy camps.

Hopefully KI can provide more context as to what "promotion" means.

[runrussellrun]

As a middle school teacher my experience over the past few years is that we have gone from tolerance, to acceptance, to promotion - I am fully supportive of the first two, not so much the third. The pandemic has affected many of our youth in so many ways. I am not a counselor, but I believe this push by the LGBTQ+ community, and the media, will not serve our young people well in the long run. These students brains are not developed enough for them to making life changing decisions about their sexual orientation at this stage of their development. In addition, due to the effects of the pandemic, the adults trusted in guiding these youngsters are much more prone to be "supportive" in a way that they never would have been before.

I'll generally defer to your real-life experience in education but how do you explain the recent case in GA where a highly rated (over 10 years) teacher was fired for reading a best selling children's book to her 5th grade class which she acquired at the school's book fair - My Shadow is Purple After the reading, the class discussed the book’s message of acceptance of oneself and others and embracing diverse and complex identities and experiences. Some parents and another teacher (also a parent) complained. The young lady was recently terminated. Have to wonder what THAT taught the children.

https://cobbcountycourier.com/2023/06/i ... cepts-law/

Seems rather harsh to me - As I have previously mentioned I spent a career at a company where gay/lesbian staff was common and there were few, if any issues about it.

were you working with 5th graders?

[MDlaxfan76]

As a middle school teacher my experience over the past few years is that we have gone from tolerance, to acceptance, to promotion - I am fully supportive of the first two, not so much the third. The pandemic has affected many of our youth in so many ways. I am not a counselor, but I believe this push by the LGBTQ+ community, and the media, will not serve our young people well in the long run. These students brains are not developed enough for them to making life changing decisions about their sexual orientation at this stage of their development. In addition, due to the effects of the pandemic, the adults trusted in guiding these youngsters are much more prone to be "supportive" in a way that they never would have been before.

I'll generally defer to your real-life experience in education but how do you explain the recent case in GA where a highly rated (over 10 years) teacher was fired for reading a best selling children's book to her 5th grade class which she acquired at the school's book fair - My Shadow is Purple After the reading, the class discussed the book’s message of acceptance of oneself and others and embracing diverse and complex identities and experiences. Some parents and another teacher (also a parent) complained. The young lady was recently terminated. Have to wonder what THAT taught the children.

https://cobbcountycourier.com/2023/06/i ... cepts-law/

Seems rather harsh to me - As I have previously mentioned I spent a career at a company where gay/lesbian staff was common and there were few, if any issues about it.

I think KI Dock Bar missed a step in "from tolerance, to acceptance, to promotion". Between "acceptance" and "promotion", there's "support" and there's "embrace"...those are NOT "promotion" nor is that an inevitable outcome!

But I think they're misread that way by those who were initially uncomfortable with "tolerance" but got over it, initially uncomfortable with "acceptance" but got over it..."support" feels like asking more from us, "embrace" feels like asking a lot more...uncomfortable...at first...

Promotion is a weasel word too. It has nearly infinite meanings.

Are kids, schools, teachers promoting that it's ok to be gay or trans? Is that inherently bad?

What is the LGBT+ community and the media promoting as a whole that is damaging to young people as a whole?

We don't seem to question the brain development stages of young straight people as to when they make decisions on their sexuality or other aspects of their body. We're also not sending tons of straight kids to gay conversion therapy camps.

Hopefully KI can provide more context as to what "promotion" means.

I agree, though I assumed, given context and reaction, that KI was suggesting that there's an effort to promote a "choice" of gender and/or sexual preference, the supposed "grooming" of children to become something other than their otherwise likely inclinations.

I just don't think that's remotely what is actually getting "promoted".

KI, please do elaborate on what you mean, having given a bit of additional thought to these nuances in possible meaning.

[KI Dock Bar]

All words can mean different things to different people, right? Of course as educators, we support all the young people under our direction. When people ask me what I do for a living I respond, I am a teacher, I help students fulfill their potential. In addition to be a career educator, I coached high school soccer and lacrosse for 35 years before hanging up my lanyard in 2019. We meet all students and athletes where they are and provide opportunities for growth and development. Acceptance of everyone is the cornerstone of our profession, but...I find some in our profession are on a path that leads some young people down a path that they would not otherwise travel without their counsel. The ramifications of their decisions while they are in middle school and younger will stay with them the rest of their lives. I am not convinced that most of them are ready, in so many ways, to make these life changing decisions. I am focusing on the students who are transitioning or considering it at this young age.

[get it to x]

All words can mean different things to different people, right? Of course as educators, we support all the young people under our direction. When people ask me what I do for a living I respond, I am a teacher, I help students fulfill their potential. In addition to be a career educator, I coached high school soccer and lacrosse for 35 years before hanging up my lanyard in 2019. We meet all students and athletes where they are and provide opportunities for growth and development. Acceptance of everyone is the cornerstone of our profession, but...I find some in our profession are on a path that leads some young people down a path that they would not otherwise travel without their counsel. The ramifications of their decisions while they are in middle school and younger will stay with them the rest of their lives. I am not convinced that most of them are ready, in so many ways, to make these life changing decisions. I am focusing on the students who are transitioning or considering it at this young age.

Exactly. We do not teach Algebra to 3rd graders because their brains are not ready. Some, if not most teens are not ready to understand what is happening to them amid the craziness of their own natural hormonal bombardment. I have heard that a vast majority of people who are gender questioning wind up back to identifying with their biological sex if allowed to resolve itself. Why not let nature take it's course until they are an adult and can give informed consent?

[NattyBohChamps04]

Exactly. We do not teach Algebra to 3rd graders because their brains are not ready. Some, if not most teens are not ready to understand what is happening to them amid the craziness of their own natural hormonal bombardment. I have heard that a vast majority of people who are gender questioning wind up back to identifying with their biological sex if allowed to resolve itself. Why not let nature take it's course until they are an adult and can give informed consent?

3rd graders are very capable of understanding basic Algebra.

And by vast majority, do you mean 1%?

Some studies suggest that rates of regret have declined over the years as patient selection and treatment methods have improved. In a review of 27 studies involving almost 8,000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret.

We want to catch it early because if people go through puberty, then it's much, much harder to transition and pass later in life.

[NattyBohChamps04]

All words can mean different things to different people, right? Of course as educators, we support all the young people under our direction. When people ask me what I do for a living I respond, I am a teacher, I help students fulfill their potential. In addition to be a career educator, I coached high school soccer and lacrosse for 35 years before hanging up my lanyard in 2019. We meet all students and athletes where they are and provide opportunities for growth and development. Acceptance of everyone is the cornerstone of our profession, but...I find some in our profession are on a path that leads some young people down a path that they would not otherwise travel without their counsel. The ramifications of their decisions while they are in middle school and younger will stay with them the rest of their lives. I am not convinced that most of them are ready, in so many ways, to make these life changing decisions. I am focusing on the students who are transitioning or considering it at this young age.

Words do mean different things to different people, which is why we asked what you meant by "promoting."

The good news for you is that the decision isn't solely the kid's. Normally parents and teams of medical professionals are involved.

If we deny these people the medical treatment they need, then we are saying voters and politicians know more about a kid's body and personal medical decisions than they, their parents and doctors do. By doing so, we're condemning ~99% of trans people to a life of potential misery and suffering to save the 1% who may not actually be trans.

The science has been around for a long time and is only getting better. Unfortunately now it's a political hot button issue instead of a proper medical decision left to the professionals.

[a fan]

All words can mean different things to different people, right? Of course as educators, we support all the young people under our direction. When people ask me what I do for a living I respond, I am a teacher, I help students fulfill their potential. In addition to be a career educator, I coached high school soccer and lacrosse for 35 years before hanging up my lanyard in 2019. We meet all students and athletes where they are and provide opportunities for growth and development. Acceptance of everyone is the cornerstone of our profession, but...I find some in our profession are on a path that leads some young people down a path that they would not otherwise travel without their counsel. The ramifications of their decisions while they are in middle school and younger will stay with them the rest of their lives. I am not convinced that most of them are ready, in so many ways, to make these life changing decisions. I am focusing on the students who are transitioning or considering it at this young age.

You have more than one kid at your school medically transitioning? Average age of medical transition is 26, last I saw. A good age, in my non-medical opinion (read: meaningless opinion).

If the idea here is to keep the government (public schools) from "promoting" kids in directions related to sex and things like gender roles...what are you thoughts on school dances? Or cheerleaders in skirts?

Appreciate you sharing your views on the matter.

[get it to x]

Exactly. We do not teach Algebra to 3rd graders because their brains are not ready. Some, if not most teens are not ready to understand what is happening to them amid the craziness of their own natural hormonal bombardment. I have heard that a vast majority of people who are gender questioning wind up back to identifying with their biological sex if allowed to resolve itself. Why not let nature take it's course until they are an adult and can give informed consent?

3rd graders are very capable of understanding basic Algebra.

And by vast majority, do you mean 1%?

Some studies suggest that rates of regret have declined over the years as patient selection and treatment methods have improved. In a review of 27 studies involving almost 8,000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret.

We want to catch it early because if people go through puberty, then it's much, much harder to transition and pass later in life.

Way more than the 1% you suggest. And who is this "we" that want to catch it early? Do you have a pet rat in your pocket?

https://www.transgendertrend.com/children-change-minds/

[Kismet]

Nice discussion - but nobody thinks that GA has a law that got a 10 year vet highly rated 5th grade teacher FIRED for reading a CHILDRENS Book she discovered and acquired at her school's book fair to her students and then discussed TOLERANCE for differences with the class.

[jhu72]

Exactly. We do not teach Algebra to 3rd graders because their brains are not ready. Some, if not most teens are not ready to understand what is happening to them amid the craziness of their own natural hormonal bombardment. I have heard that a vast majority of people who are gender questioning wind up back to identifying with their biological sex if allowed to resolve itself. Why not let nature take it's course until they are an adult and can give informed consent?

3rd graders are very capable of understanding basic Algebra.

And by vast majority, do you mean 1%?

Some studies suggest that rates of regret have declined over the years as patient selection and treatment methods have improved. In a review of 27 studies involving almost 8,000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret.

We want to catch it early because if people go through puberty, then it's much, much harder to transition and pass later in life.

Way more than the 1% you suggest. And who is this "we" that want to catch it early? Do you have a pet rat in your pocket?

https://www.transgendertrend.com/children-change-minds/

... source is a bunch of psychiatrists and laymen selling their sh*t. Your fact data is generated by asking parents of anti-trans kids what they think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_Trend

[get it to x]

Exactly. We do not teach Algebra to 3rd graders because their brains are not ready. Some, if not most teens are not ready to understand what is happening to them amid the craziness of their own natural hormonal bombardment. I have heard that a vast majority of people who are gender questioning wind up back to identifying with their biological sex if allowed to resolve itself. Why not let nature take it's course until they are an adult and can give informed consent?

3rd graders are very capable of understanding basic Algebra.

And by vast majority, do you mean 1%?

Some studies suggest that rates of regret have declined over the years as patient selection and treatment methods have improved. In a review of 27 studies involving almost 8,000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret.

We want to catch it early because if people go through puberty, then it's much, much harder to transition and pass later in life.

Way more than the 1% you suggest. And who is this "we" that want to catch it early? Do you have a pet rat in your pocket?

https://www.transgendertrend.com/children-change-minds/

... source is a bunch of psychiatrists selling their sh*t. Your fact data is generated by asking parents of anti-trans kids what they think.

This is why I seldom cite sources. I did so to point out that 1% was a ridiculous number. I could cite The Bible as my authority, but that doesn't mean you recognize my cited authority. How many cited the CDC during Covid and how many times were they flat out wrong? There are a lot of highly educated stupid people that contracted Covid after vaccination and several boosters.