Navy 2022

D1 Mens Lacrosse
runrussellrun
Posts: 7583
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by runrussellrun »

WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 11:52 am
oldjayfan wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 11:00 am
WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 10:23 am Sowell didn’t exactly ingratiate himself by sniffing around the UVa vacancy when Starsia was let go.
Wow! If UVA called, not sure how many coaches wouldn't at least listen? The ACC is the most prestigious conference in the country. The B1G is gaining, but the ACC is the straw that stirs the NCAA lacrosse drink.
r3 makes no sense, as usual. Reading comprehension is a challenge for him.

And no, as I understood it at the time, Sowell inquired at UVa on his own initiative. Was not contacted by UVa. Other way around. With big Navy contract in hand. In other words, reason for powers that be in Annapolis to not be happy, and they weren’t happy. Very bad indicator of where a person’s commitment and priorities are.
As YOU understood it....at the time. OK....I know a guy......at the time, who did UVA contact, as YOU understood it.....at the time. :roll: If I recall, the job WAS posted on the NCAA website.........as I understood it.....at the time.

https://ncaamarket.ncaa.org/jobs/?keywo ... osse&sort=
Last edited by runrussellrun on Fri May 03, 2019 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus
Posts: 1738
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:46 pm

Re: Navy 2019

Post by WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus »

runrussellrun wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 11:56 am
WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 11:52 am
oldjayfan wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 11:00 am
WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 10:23 am Sowell didn’t exactly ingratiate himself by sniffing around the UVa vacancy when Starsia was let go.
Wow! If UVA called, not sure how many coaches wouldn't at least listen? The ACC is the most prestigious conference in the country. The B1G is gaining, but the ACC is the straw that stirs the NCAA lacrosse drink.
r3 makes no sense, as usual. Reading comprehension is a challenge for him.

And no, as I understood it at the time, Sowell inquired at UVa on his own initiative. Was not contacted by UVa. Other way around. With big Navy contract in hand. In other words, reason for powers that be in Annapolis to not be happy, and they weren’t happy. Very bad indicator of where a person’s commitment and priorities are.
As YOU understood it....at the time. OK....I know a guy......at the time, who did UVA contact, as YOU understood it.....at the time. :roll: If I recall, the job WAS posted on the NCAA website.........as I understood it.....at the time.
You fail again.
runrussellrun
Posts: 7583
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:07 am

Re: Navy 2019

Post by runrussellrun »

WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 11:58 am
runrussellrun wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 11:56 am
WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 11:52 am
oldjayfan wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 11:00 am
WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 10:23 am Sowell didn’t exactly ingratiate himself by sniffing around the UVa vacancy when Starsia was let go.
Wow! If UVA called, not sure how many coaches wouldn't at least listen? The ACC is the most prestigious conference in the country. The B1G is gaining, but the ACC is the straw that stirs the NCAA lacrosse drink.
r3 makes no sense, as usual. Reading comprehension is a challenge for him.

And no, as I understood it at the time, Sowell inquired at UVa on his own initiative. Was not contacted by UVa. Other way around. With big Navy contract in hand. In other words, reason for powers that be in Annapolis to not be happy, and they weren’t happy. Very bad indicator of where a person’s commitment and priorities are.
As YOU understood it....at the time. OK....I know a guy......at the time, who did UVA contact, as YOU understood it.....at the time. :roll: If I recall, the job WAS posted on the NCAA website.........as I understood it.....at the time.
You fail again.
Get used to it already.. :D ......but, will ask again who did University of Virginia CONTACT instead of responding to resumes from online job sites?
ILM...Independent Lives Matter
Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
oldjayfan
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 9:05 am

Re: Navy 2019

Post by oldjayfan »

Not sure how you can state, "...as I understood it..." ? Chet was the one that informed Coach Sowell that UVA wanted to talk to him. And, Chet was flattered that UVA wanted to talk to his coach. Don't let the truth get in your way! Coach Sowell will be fine and Navy can again set unrealistic expectations. Boo-Yah!
AreaLax
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by AreaLax »

What about Ryan Moran?
Believe he has coached at Navy
HC experience.
LI And Md recruiting connection
Coached in National Championship
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

The Orfling wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 6:28 am


Correct, because Meade was McGyver w the program. He took a few paper clips & duct tape and made it work. Those players couldn’t believe he was let go. Tremors occurred. That won’t happen w this change!!!
Richie is an unbelievably great guy, especially in the cutthroat world of DI college sports. (Although it wouldn’t be unfair to say that he had his best results working with John Tillman.). It was always going to be tough for anybody coming in after one of the best guys in lacrosse was forced out. To be the guy after the guy who replaced Richie Meade is a much better spot. I would think there might be more people interested this time around?
Yep
“I wish you would!”
laxpere
Posts: 187
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by laxpere »

thatsmell wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 11:09 am I lay all of this mess, for the past decade, including all the infighting, the poor record, low attendance and Sowell's surprise firing, at Chet's feet. He created the whole mess. As alluded to earlier, Sowell was in a lose-lose situation by accepting a position and following an institutional legend that was let go in the completely wrong fashion. I'm not saying Meade was the GOAT, I'm simply saying he deserved to be dealt with in a much more respectful manner. And Sowell should not be surprised that he was canned in the exact same, shi tty way that Meade was let go.
Thatsmell,
Where would the Naval Academy be without him? Was the Naval Academy that helpless before he arrived?
His bio reads "In his 17 years as Director of Athletics, Chet Gladchuk has overseen a renaissance of the Naval Academy athletic program. His administrative leadership has helped lead the program to one of the most successful periods in school history."
I didn't realize that he is 69 years old. Is there a mandatory retirement age?

Onto Navy Lacrosse, it will be interesting to see how the other Navy Lacrosse coaches are treated. I haven't seen any word about them nor did Coach Sowell's private text to the team address their future. Reports were that Harvard's coach contacted his recruiting classes to inform them and wish them well. I wonder if Coach Sowell and/or Coach Wellner also reassured their recruiting classes. Will Navy Lacrosse lose any of the 2020 pipeline that is highly ranked? Unrelated question, but why is the 2020 class so small?

I still contend that the future is bright from a personnel standpoint, and new leadership could be the spark to broaden player development and boost on field performance. As Healthy said, you never knew which team was going to show up this year. After a really tough year, this team has something to prove and hopefully the strong team will show up every quarter next year.

Most of the parts of the puzzle are there. Will 24, 35, 43 or someone else step into on field leadership roles? Could 24 be the next 40? With new leadership, momentum could build and snow ball into a solid multi-year run, especially with Loyola losing their top gun. Hopefully, expectations will be reasonable and the team under promises and over delivers. At least Beat Army like the lady Mids did!

Good luck to the lady Mids this weekend.
Go Navy! Beat Loyola!
“The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall.” Vince Lombardi
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are...." John Wooden
laxxygilmore
Posts: 238
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by laxxygilmore »

kramerica.inc wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:11 am Mediocrity has become the new norm with Navy lax. And I think using the term “mediocrity” is a stretch.
Agreed. But not in Coach Cindy Timchal's case. Kudos to Coach Timchal and her #13 WLax Mids indeed (@ 15-3/.833 and 9-1/.900 in PL) for their 13-12 W over Boston U. on 4/25/19 to secure their #2 seeding in the 2019 Patriot League Tournament and now their 20-10 W over Army in the PLT semi-finals on 5-2-19. Beat #11 Loyola on 5-4-19 @ Ridley!

Coach Cindy Timchal is the gold standard for leading the delivery of sustainable success by Navy WLax during her impressive career (especially given the challenges of success within an SA environment) over the past 8 seasons @ 130-31/.807 with W seasons @ 8 of 8/1.000 and 4 PLT Championships (6 overall in 11 seasons at Navy and maybe 7 in 12 on 5-4-19) with 4 NCAAT appearances (6 overall in 11 seasons and may be 7 in 12 seasons as of 5-4-19, including 1 FF in 2018), all within Coach Timchal’s 12 seasons to date USNA tenure @ 188-50/.790 with W seasons @ 12 of 12/1.000, tacked on to her 8 NCAAT Championships during 16 seasons as head coach of U. of Maryland’s WLax team.

In the “House of Navy Lacrosse”, the “…architect of building winning lacrosse programs…” is Coach Cindy Timchal. Navy MLax will get there too.
Tecumseh
Posts: 71
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by Tecumseh »

laxpere wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 9:20 am
kramerica.inc wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 7:23 am I don’t like celebrating when someone has a bad day. And as you said, there are real people involved with young kids.
But to be fair, Sowell the environment he was stepping into 8 years ago. He knew that Chet was prone to sudden changes out of the blue. It’s how he got the job!
DMac wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 7:31 am The good news is, "He and his family will be ok". The other good news is, he's no longer the HC at Navy.
I don't believe he's been a good fit at Navy from day one, glad to see a change has been made made.
LadyLaker wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 7:56 am Can’t say I’m sorry to see him go. Never thought he was a good fit for the program and, during his tenure, we watched as some really great coaching talent cane and went.
There is already a well established theme that Coach Sowell was a bad fit for Navy Lacrosse. It would be helpful to understand the basis for that view. Let's be fair, I guess Coach Sowell didn't anticipate the "hornet's nest" that Navy Lacrosse became.

He knew that the AD was prone to sudden changes? But wasn't Coach Sowell's predecessor there a long time? This forum doesn't have the full history but it seems like there was little alumni support from the start. Some even cut off their financial support. It seems like the former coach's war waged against Coach Sowell from the get go :roll: and not even the success in the 2014-8 timeframe, including a NCAA quarter final, was enough.

If it was losing OCs was one of the reasons, didn't one OC leave in 2014 and the offense improved the next three years under the next OC? I would like to hear SonnySide's view of the OCs and their departures. He played for both and will hopefully offer up some perspective. Were the departures opportunity driven at all? Aren't the two other schools more attractive for coaches from a lacrosse standpoint? I would argue that they're very different environments than Navy, as recruiting is easier and transfers can fill holes quickly.

Maybe there was limited player support too judging by how quickly Coach Sowell's full text was passed along to College Crosse and others.

No matter what, the timing is peculiar. Not only is the season barely over for most teams, one of the most important and challenging weeks of the academic year is here for the players. A huge distraction for them could have been avoided if the AD had waited until next week or even the week after? Given the building rumors about the OC's return to his alma mater, could it even have been a distraction for Maryland's vaunted offense last night? Could we see an announcement on Monday, if Maryand fails to make the NCAA tourney?

The grave dancers are not going away and that's fine with me, but I am with Healthy in looking forward. The first part of HC change has arrived so what other changes are necessary to make 2020 and beyond successful?
What does the new coach need to bring to the Navy Lacrosse table?
Does he need to have a tie to the Navy Lacrosse program?
Is Wellner in the mix? I haven't seen any vitriol directed at him so is he an acceptable candidate?

As highlighted in previous posts, the 2019 Navy Lacrosse team was young and they gained invaluable experience this season. The new coach should be primed to excel from the start since he inherits strong starting attack and defensive lines. Most have at least two years left. The outstanding goalie is here next year too. Yes, Youth, the talent is there. If the midfield steps it up, Navy Lacrosse is poised for a successful 2020 season.

Best wishes to Coach Sowell too.

Go Navy!
Agree totally with this analysis except the fact that Meade never had an issue with Sowell and visa versa , they didn't fired each other . I'm guessing they have spoken since this termination. The Alumni issue and all the dollars lost are aimed at the AD and his inner Cabal for the dreadful way Meade was treated . The AD owes Sowell another 2 years of salary ( 600k + ) and I'm certain he will land in a good place ( maybe Cambridge :idea: ) . I do know that Meade's Assistants were left hanging in the wind and I hope that the current Assistants are treated much better this time around . I hope Wellner is given a serious look for the HC job but the AD will be very private in the search IMHO . Is this a opportunity to get a rising star current HC ( that have all been previously mentioned ) or will JL be recruited back like a conquering Viking ?

I hope the NAAA staff knows that they have a rare chance for a "do over" to find the correct leader going forward and win back the Alumni base and start the cash flowing again from the current embargo. I'm guessing that whoever gets hired will be fully supported for a very long time .


"Hornet's Nest" indeed :!:

Fore

"T"
So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life.
laxpere
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by laxpere »

laxxygilmore wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 1:06 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:11 am Mediocrity has become the new norm with Navy lax. And I think using the term “mediocrity” is a stretch.
Agreed. But not in Coach Cindy Timchal's case. Kudos to Coach Timchal and her #13 WLax Mids indeed (@ 15-3/.833 and 9-1/.900 in PL) for their 13-12 W over Boston U. on 4/25/19 to secure their #2 seeding in the 2019 Patriot League Tournament and now their 20-10 W over Army in the PLT semi-finals on 5-2-19. Beat #11 Loyola on 5-4-19 @ Ridley!

Coach Cindy Timchal is the gold standard for leading the delivery of sustainable success by Navy WLax during her impressive career (especially given the challenges of success within an SA environment) over the past 8 seasons @ 130-31/.807 with W seasons @ 8 of 8/1.000 and 4 PLT Championships (6 overall in 11 seasons at Navy and maybe 7 in 12 on 5-4-19) with 4 NCAAT appearances (6 overall in 11 seasons and may be 7 in 12 seasons as of 5-4-19, including 1 FF in 2018), all within Coach Timchal’s 12 seasons to date USNA tenure @ 188-50/.790 with W seasons @ 12 of 12/1.000, tacked on to her 8 NCAAT Championships during 16 seasons as head coach of U. of Maryland’s WLax team.

In the “House of Navy Lacrosse”, the “…architect of building winning lacrosse programs…” is Coach Cindy Timchal. Navy MLax will get there too.
Impressive record indeed. Good luck to the Lady Mids tomorrow.

So how does Mens Lacrosse get there?
Everyone's happy now? On the same page after eight years of "mediocrity"?
You have your new to be named coach with a fresh start. Now what? How about a roadmap?
What is the difference between the two programs?
Is Mens Lacrosse more competitive or are there practices that the Lady Mids program follows that should be adopted by the Men's Lacrosse team?
Is NAPS a factor? It seems like all of the lady Mids go direct.
Go Navy!
“The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall.” Vince Lombardi
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are...." John Wooden
oldjayfan
Posts: 248
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by oldjayfan »

laxxygilmore wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 1:06 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:11 am Mediocrity has become the new norm with Navy lax. And I think using the term “mediocrity” is a stretch.
Agreed. But not in Coach Cindy Timchal's case. Kudos to Coach Timchal and her #13 WLax Mids indeed (@ 15-3/.833 and 9-1/.900 in PL) for their 13-12 W over Boston U. on 4/25/19 to secure their #2 seeding in the 2019 Patriot League Tournament and now their 20-10 W over Army in the PLT semi-finals on 5-2-19. Beat #11 Loyola on 5-4-19 @ Ridley!

Coach Cindy Timchal is the gold standard for leading the delivery of sustainable success by Navy WLax during her impressive career (especially given the challenges of success within an SA environment) over the past 8 seasons @ 130-31/.807 with W seasons @ 8 of 8/1.000 and 4 PLT Championships (6 overall in 11 seasons at Navy and maybe 7 in 12 on 5-4-19) with 4 NCAAT appearances (6 overall in 11 seasons and may be 7 in 12 seasons as of 5-4-19, including 1 FF in 2018), all within Coach Timchal’s 12 seasons to date USNA tenure @ 188-50/.790 with W seasons @ 12 of 12/1.000, tacked on to her 8 NCAAT Championships during 16 seasons as head coach of U. of Maryland’s WLax team.

In the “House of Navy Lacrosse”, the “…architect of building winning lacrosse programs…” is Coach Cindy Timchal. Navy MLax will get there too.
Wonder how you'd refer to Furman, Army, Bucknell, Lehigh, HC, Colgate, etc...seeing as none have one an NCAA game, I don't believe, during Sowell's Navy tenure.

PS All the "lost" alumni dollars is poppy-cock...when Chet signed the new football deal, most, if not all, financial woes were alleviated. The PL will be Loyola and everyone else for the foreseeable future.
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youthathletics
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by youthathletics »

....just some quick thoughts.

In my heart of hearts I believe RS waited about 3-4 years too long to change/adapt to what was going on right in front of him. Someone mentioned what he did at Dartmouth...and what happened after he left....well let's take a lookhe did not do much better than he did here, with only one winning season. And the coach that followed him...about the same type of W/L's. The telling stats at Dartmouth...while you are looking at that page, pay attention to the Goals Scored and Goals Against in his era..then before and after his era. Maybe he tries to control lacrosse players just a bit too much???!

His "my guys are not here yet" comment has come and past and he barely got us above 10.5 g/gm average....that just will not work in this lacrosse era. His offense has been borderline U15 grade here at Navy and he did not have Crowley, McBride, and Compeitllo to drive the bus. Now, to be fair, in 2016 he did have a defense that was only giving up 7.5 g/gm and currently our g/gm has only increased by .6....yep .6 since 2016, and that includes the 80 second clock.

Bottom line....he is a good coach, an even better man, and I just wished he had challenged them with more creativity, speed of practice, etc. I wish him the very best.

Turning the page..
Keep in mind Wellner is not currently an Assistant, he is an Associate Head Coach. I would be perfectly happy if they just moved on from here with the staff they currently have. Drop the Associate and change to Head Coach Wellner, Camposa keep the goalies dialed in and work more on recruiting responsibilities, and Parks given the Offense keys if Wellner believes he is worthy. Otherwise, steal Phipps back. We do not need chaos with this current roster and incoming class...there is some great talent on, and coming to the yard.

#Onward
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
laxxygilmore
Posts: 238
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by laxxygilmore »

Tecumseh wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 1:22 pm
laxpere wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 9:20 am
kramerica.inc wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 7:23 am I don’t like celebrating when someone has a bad day. And as you said, there are real people involved with young kids.
But to be fair, Sowell the environment he was stepping into 8 years ago. He knew that Chet was prone to sudden changes out of the blue. It’s how he got the job!
DMac wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 7:31 am The good news is, "He and his family will be ok". The other good news is, he's no longer the HC at Navy.
I don't believe he's been a good fit at Navy from day one, glad to see a change has been made made.
LadyLaker wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 7:56 am Can’t say I’m sorry to see him go. Never thought he was a good fit for the program and, during his tenure, we watched as some really great coaching talent cane and went.
There is already a well established theme that Coach Sowell was a bad fit for Navy Lacrosse. It would be helpful to understand the basis for that view. Let's be fair, I guess Coach Sowell didn't anticipate the "hornet's nest" that Navy Lacrosse became.

He knew that the AD was prone to sudden changes? But wasn't Coach Sowell's predecessor there a long time? This forum doesn't have the full history but it seems like there was little alumni support from the start. Some even cut off their financial support. It seems like the former coach's war waged against Coach Sowell from the get go :roll: and not even the success in the 2014-8 timeframe, including a NCAA quarter final, was enough.

If it was losing OCs was one of the reasons, didn't one OC leave in 2014 and the offense improved the next three years under the next OC? I would like to hear SonnySide's view of the OCs and their departures. He played for both and will hopefully offer up some perspective. Were the departures opportunity driven at all? Aren't the two other schools more attractive for coaches from a lacrosse standpoint? I would argue that they're very different environments than Navy, as recruiting is easier and transfers can fill holes quickly.

Maybe there was limited player support too judging by how quickly Coach Sowell's full text was passed along to College Crosse and others.

No matter what, the timing is peculiar. Not only is the season barely over for most teams, one of the most important and challenging weeks of the academic year is here for the players. A huge distraction for them could have been avoided if the AD had waited until next week or even the week after? Given the building rumors about the OC's return to his alma mater, could it even have been a distraction for Maryland's vaunted offense last night? Could we see an announcement on Monday, if Maryand fails to make the NCAA tourney?

The grave dancers are not going away and that's fine with me, but I am with Healthy in looking forward. The first part of HC change has arrived so what other changes are necessary to make 2020 and beyond successful?
What does the new coach need to bring to the Navy Lacrosse table?
Does he need to have a tie to the Navy Lacrosse program?
Is Wellner in the mix? I haven't seen any vitriol directed at him so is he an acceptable candidate?

As highlighted in previous posts, the 2019 Navy Lacrosse team was young and they gained invaluable experience this season. The new coach should be primed to excel from the start since he inherits strong starting attack and defensive lines. Most have at least two years left. The outstanding goalie is here next year too. Yes, Youth, the talent is there. If the midfield steps it up, Navy Lacrosse is poised for a successful 2020 season.

Best wishes to Coach Sowell too.

Go Navy!
Agree totally with this analysis except the fact that Meade never had an issue with Sowell and visa versa , they didn't fired each other . I'm guessing they have spoken since this termination. The Alumni issue and all the dollars lost are aimed at the AD and his inner Cabal for the dreadful way Meade was treated . The AD owes Sowell another 2 years of salary ( 600k + ) and I'm certain he will land in a good place ( maybe Cambridge :idea: ) . I do know that Meade's Assistants were left hanging in the wind and I hope that the current Assistants are treated much better this time around . I hope Wellner is given a serious look for the HC job but the AD will be very private in the search IMHO . Is this a opportunity to get a rising star current HC ( that have all been previously mentioned ) or will JL be recruited back like a conquering Viking ?

I hope the NAAA staff knows that they have a rare chance for a "do over" to find the correct leader going forward and win back the Alumni base and start the cash flowing again from the current embargo. I'm guessing that whoever gets hired will be fully supported for a very long time .


"Hornet's Nest" indeed :!:

Fore

"T"
+1. Well stated, "T". Taking the Mulligan - moving on and up.
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oldjayfan
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 9:05 am

Re: Navy 2019

Post by oldjayfan »

Don't think I disagree with your overall assessment, youth; however, Dartmouth is much like Navy. Hard to recruit a lot of offensive talent at either place. The number of players Navy has committed--or even enrolled at NAPS--and then leave is mind boggling. I'm sure Sowell knew the difficulties before he arrived. My bottom line is the PL overall, save Loyola, has not done much in the post season during Sowell's tenure at Navy. Don't really see how that changes. Every team in the league has a few solid/excellent offensive players, but the depth you speak of is not there, IMHO. Maybe the teams need to do a better job developing their "talent". Sowell took Navy to the brink of the FF in 2016. I think that is the pinnacle for the PL teams. Stony Brook almost sniffed the FF, too, as Sowell rode a couple of Canadians to a high scoring, fun to watch team. Navy, and the rest of the PL, will have a grind it out offensive scheme most of the time. FIRST TEAM TO 10 WINS was a mantra I read on here many times..not sure the shot clock has changed that much.

Let's hope the expectations that Chet placed on Sowell will not burden the next coach.
oldjayfan
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 9:05 am

Re: Navy 2019

Post by oldjayfan »

laxxygilmore wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 2:02 pm
Tecumseh wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 1:22 pm
laxpere wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 9:20 am
kramerica.inc wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 7:23 am I don’t like celebrating when someone has a bad day. And as you said, there are real people involved with young kids.
But to be fair, Sowell the environment he was stepping into 8 years ago. He knew that Chet was prone to sudden changes out of the blue. It’s how he got the job!
DMac wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 7:31 am The good news is, "He and his family will be ok". The other good news is, he's no longer the HC at Navy.
I don't believe he's been a good fit at Navy from day one, glad to see a change has been made made.
LadyLaker wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 7:56 am Can’t say I’m sorry to see him go. Never thought he was a good fit for the program and, during his tenure, we watched as some really great coaching talent cane and went.
There is already a well established theme that Coach Sowell was a bad fit for Navy Lacrosse. It would be helpful to understand the basis for that view. Let's be fair, I guess Coach Sowell didn't anticipate the "hornet's nest" that Navy Lacrosse became.

He knew that the AD was prone to sudden changes? But wasn't Coach Sowell's predecessor there a long time? This forum doesn't have the full history but it seems like there was little alumni support from the start. Some even cut off their financial support. It seems like the former coach's war waged against Coach Sowell from the get go :roll: and not even the success in the 2014-8 timeframe, including a NCAA quarter final, was enough.

If it was losing OCs was one of the reasons, didn't one OC leave in 2014 and the offense improved the next three years under the next OC? I would like to hear SonnySide's view of the OCs and their departures. He played for both and will hopefully offer up some perspective. Were the departures opportunity driven at all? Aren't the two other schools more attractive for coaches from a lacrosse standpoint? I would argue that they're very different environments than Navy, as recruiting is easier and transfers can fill holes quickly.

Maybe there was limited player support too judging by how quickly Coach Sowell's full text was passed along to College Crosse and others.

No matter what, the timing is peculiar. Not only is the season barely over for most teams, one of the most important and challenging weeks of the academic year is here for the players. A huge distraction for them could have been avoided if the AD had waited until next week or even the week after? Given the building rumors about the OC's return to his alma mater, could it even have been a distraction for Maryland's vaunted offense last night? Could we see an announcement on Monday, if Maryand fails to make the NCAA tourney?

The grave dancers are not going away and that's fine with me, but I am with Healthy in looking forward. The first part of HC change has arrived so what other changes are necessary to make 2020 and beyond successful?
What does the new coach need to bring to the Navy Lacrosse table?
Does he need to have a tie to the Navy Lacrosse program?
Is Wellner in the mix? I haven't seen any vitriol directed at him so is he an acceptable candidate?

As highlighted in previous posts, the 2019 Navy Lacrosse team was young and they gained invaluable experience this season. The new coach should be primed to excel from the start since he inherits strong starting attack and defensive lines. Most have at least two years left. The outstanding goalie is here next year too. Yes, Youth, the talent is there. If the midfield steps it up, Navy Lacrosse is poised for a successful 2020 season.

Best wishes to Coach Sowell too.

Go Navy!
Agree totally with this analysis except the fact that Meade never had an issue with Sowell and visa versa , they didn't fired each other . I'm guessing they have spoken since this termination. The Alumni issue and all the dollars lost are aimed at the AD and his inner Cabal for the dreadful way Meade was treated . The AD owes Sowell another 2 years of salary ( 600k + ) and I'm certain he will land in a good place ( maybe Cambridge :idea: ) . I do know that Meade's Assistants were left hanging in the wind and I hope that the current Assistants are treated much better this time around . I hope Wellner is given a serious look for the HC job but the AD will be very private in the search IMHO . Is this a opportunity to get a rising star current HC ( that have all been previously mentioned ) or will JL be recruited back like a conquering Viking ?

I hope the NAAA staff knows that they have a rare chance for a "do over" to find the correct leader going forward and win back the Alumni base and start the cash flowing again from the current embargo. I'm guessing that whoever gets hired will be fully supported for a very long time .


"Hornet's Nest" indeed :!:

Fore

"T"
+1. Well stated, "T". Taking the Mulligan - moving on and up.
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Shocker to hear you agree Laxxy!
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old salt
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by old salt »

SonnySide wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 10:15 am
laxpere wrote: Thu May 02, 2019 8:55 pm
SonnySide wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:04 pm Sorry to rehash the topic from the previous page - But I am an alum that had the opportunity to play for both Coach Reppert and Coach Phipps. Does anyone know the real reason both of them decided to leave? Reppert was an alum for crying out loud. I know that both of them would have loved to have been able to stay on the yard if they would have been given the same opportunities they currently have at Maryland and Georgetown. What a shame. It is certainly frustrating to see both of them thrive with their offense, and Navy continue to struggle offensively.
SonnySide,
Good to rehash especially with your perspective as a recent player. Since you played for both OCs, why did they leave? Would you please share the real reasons? Reins were too tight, etc?

Also, do you think that both of them would have had the same results at Navy as they have had at Maryland and Georgetown, respectively? Would their offensive strategies have worked at Navy if they didn't leave? Why was there was more success under Phipps than Reppert? Does personnel explain it or were there other factors?

Any suggestions to improve the program beyond changes on the offensive front? How is the recruiting effort and is there anything that can change there?
Go Navy!
There is no doubt I think the offense would have been better at Navy under them. I would think Phipps especially, if you see what he is doing with the Georgetown offense. Guys like Keena, Hanzsche, Ray, Rees, Flounlacker, Torain, Wade, Daniel, etc... I would say are similar talent wise if not better than what Georgetown has. And just look at Gtown's stats. Hard to say about Maryland because their talent is much better and through the roof every year.

I am not sure why Reppert left, but I don't think he and Coach Sowell got along very well. As far as Phipps goes - he was the best coach I have ever played for. I believe all he wanted to do was have control of the offense at Navy, but was never given that opportunity for some reason.
Sonnyside & laxpere -- do you think Wellner is up to the HC job ?

Given NAAA's financial situation, a 3 year offer to Wellner might be the way to go, if he actually has the support of the current players.
See how the team responds to him as HC during that time. See if he brings in an OC & gets better results. See who he can recruit as HC.
Given the continuity, you don't need a protracted period to wait for him to get a roster full of "his guys" -- he's already got 'em.
You don't have to wait several years for him to adapt to coaching at a service academy.
If you don't see significant progress in 3 years, then bring in a new HC. At least he had a fair shot & you tried to promote from within.
Maybe we'll have a new AD by then & Wellner will be an established success. If not, a new AD might have "his guy" in the wings.
Meade & Alberici both had significant service academy experience as assistants. It matters.

I hope Rick Sowell gets other D-l HC opportunities soon, at places he can recruit the quality players who can make his scheme work.
I don't fault Sowell for looking at the UVA job. He'd have done well there.

Don't know if Navy MLax can claw their way back to the plateau we enjoyed from 2003 - 2010, but I hope this is the first step.
oldjayfan
Posts: 248
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by oldjayfan »

Not sure 2003-2010 was a "plateau" -- "brief peak" is more like it. Sowell will catch on somewhere. Don't know much about Coach Wellner, except he coached the defense and this year's defense, objectively speaking--was weak. Maybe that was due to a lot of new, young faces. But that is an excuse. Of course, the assistant coach is like the backup QB, everyone loves him until he becomes the HC. I think it would make sense for them to keep the hire in house. The Navy job isn't what it once was, except the CASH that comes with it, apparently.

Have a good weekend Navy posters! Looking forward to watching the Jays shock the Lions!
laxxygilmore
Posts: 238
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by laxxygilmore »

oldjayfan wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 1:53 pm
laxxygilmore wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 1:06 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:11 am Mediocrity has become the new norm with Navy lax. And I think using the term “mediocrity” is a stretch.
Agreed. But not in Coach Cindy Timchal's case. Kudos to Coach Timchal and her #13 WLax Mids indeed (@ 15-3/.833 and 9-1/.900 in PL) for their 13-12 W over Boston U. on 4/25/19 to secure their #2 seeding in the 2019 Patriot League Tournament and now their 20-10 W over Army in the PLT semi-finals on 5-2-19. Beat #11 Loyola on 5-4-19 @ Ridley!

Coach Cindy Timchal is the gold standard for leading the delivery of sustainable success by Navy WLax during her impressive career (especially given the challenges of success within an SA environment) over the past 8 seasons @ 130-31/.807 with W seasons @ 8 of 8/1.000 and 4 PLT Championships (6 overall in 11 seasons at Navy and maybe 7 in 12 on 5-4-19) with 4 NCAAT appearances (6 overall in 11 seasons and may be 7 in 12 seasons as of 5-4-19, including 1 FF in 2018), all within Coach Timchal’s 12 seasons to date USNA tenure @ 188-50/.790 with W seasons @ 12 of 12/1.000, tacked on to her 8 NCAAT Championships during 16 seasons as head coach of U. of Maryland’s WLax team.

In the “House of Navy Lacrosse”, the “…architect of building winning lacrosse programs…” is Coach Cindy Timchal. Navy MLax will get there too.
Wonder how you'd refer to Furman, Army, Bucknell, Lehigh, HC, Colgate, etc...seeing as none have one an NCAA game, I don't believe, during Sowell's Navy tenure.

PS All the "lost" alumni dollars is poppy-cock...when Chet signed the new football deal, most, if not all, financial woes were alleviated. The PL will be Loyola and everyone else for the foreseeable future.
Given the results of 2012-2019, let's just start by getting off the tee and into the fairway at least by winning far more games than losing (especially vs. Top 30 teams...21-48/.304 for 2012-2019 including 1-6/.143 in 2019)...and then on the green in regulation by winning most PLT Championships to make the NCAAT via AQ instead of going 0 for 8 from 2012-2019 and 0-5 via RD1 KO's by Army (2x), Lehigh (2x) and Holy Cross in actual PLT games played.

As for lost $s...
Home Game Attendance at NMCMS and More Lost $s
Another interesting matter to consider (and of NAAA concern) is home game attendance erosion at NMCMS from 2012-2018 compared to 2005-2011…

7 Seasons 2005-2011…47 Home Games Attendance Total @ 226,407 or 4,817 avg. per home game
7 Seasons 2012-2018…48 Home Games Attendance Total @ 118,914 or 2,477 avg. per home game
Down 47.5% in comparative 7 season periods as noted.
That 107,493 difference X +-$20/pp (tix + concession spend) = +-$2.15MM overall (or +-$307K/yr avg) in lost revenue at NMCMS from 2012-2018.

In the first 5 home games of 2019, attendance was down 29.0% from first 5 home games of 2018 and 2018 was down 17.0% from first 5 home games of 2017.

…factoring in the comparison of 2004 to 2019 to make it a relative 8 seasons comparison will likely increase the unfavorable delta yet again. The Mulligan should help this lost $s at home games issue going forward too.
runrussellrun
Posts: 7583
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Re: Navy 2019

Post by runrussellrun »

Wondering, for a friend........why Army hasn't announced too. How do those against others, stats stack up ? It's been how long since Army won a n$aa game....hasn't it?
ILM...Independent Lives Matter
Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
runrussellrun
Posts: 7583
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:07 am

Re: Navy 2019

Post by runrussellrun »

laxxygilmore wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 2:46 pm onships to make the NCAAT via AQ instead of going 0 for 8 from 2012-2019 and 0-5 via RD1 KO's by Army (2x), Lehigh (2x) and Holy Cross in actual PLT games played.

As for lost $s...
Home Game Attendance at NMCMS and More Lost $s
Another interesting matter to consider (and of NAAA concern) is home game attendance erosion at NMCMS from 2012-2018 compared to 2005-2011…

7 Seasons 2005-2011…47 Home Games Attendance Total @ 226,407 or 4,817 avg. per home game
7 Seasons 2012-2018…48 Home Games Attendance Total @ 118,914 or 2,477 avg. per home game
Down 47.5% in comparative 7 season periods as noted.
That 107,493 difference X +-$20/pp (tix + concession spend) = +-$2.15MM overall (or +-$307K/yr avg) in lost revenue at NMCMS from 2012-2018.

In the first 5 home games of 2019, attendance was down 29.0% from first 5 home games of 2018 and 2018 was down 17.0% from first 5 home games of 2017.

…factoring in the comparison of 2004 to 2019 to make it a relative 8 seasons comparison will likely increase the unfavorable delta yet again. The Mulligan should help this lost $s at home games issue going forward too.
What was attendance in Sowells first season.? Kind of show the LACK of support right outa the tailHOOKgate, wouldn't it? ;)
ILM...Independent Lives Matter
Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
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