The vast majority of Americans supported the concept of democracy in the former Soviet states and Russia itself. Most of the American foreign policy regime supported those movements and aspirations, as did most of the elected politicians. They continue to do so.old salt wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 10:05 pmOK. Give me your nominations for gentiles who have been as influential, over time, of fomenting revolution & regime change in Ukraine, Belarus. & Russia. We have one nomination -- Mitch McConnell. I don't see him as any more significant than other hawkish Senators like McCain, Graham, & Portman (who concentrated on Ukraine), or Dick & Liz Cheney. I maintain that none of them were as consequential, over the long haul, as Nuland & Soros have been. If you agree with them, you should acknowledge their effectiveness & applaud them, rather than diverting attention from their efforts.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:43 pmHe won’t be cowed into not utilizing anti-semitic tropes. It’s his choice.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:18 pmI don't expect my feedback to "determine what you say".old salt wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 6:46 pmI'm not oblivious to what you're saying. Nor am I going to let it determine what I say.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 5:53 pmYup, there are indeed plenty of gentiles who have supported democratic movements throwing off the yoke of Soviet and Russian domination.old salt wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 4:56 pmOther than Biden (w/Blinken) & John McCain, they are the 2 most influential figures in the promotion of regime change & dismemberment of Russia, dating back to Maidan in 2014.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:01 amThey're the ones the hard right wing "Nationalists" choose to emphasize.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:01 amThe two Jewish people.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 8:55 am
Re Nuland and Soros...are they the only prominent people who have supported Ukraine and other former Soviet holdings turning away from authoritarianism and Russian domination towards democracy and the West?
Nope. But they're the ones the hard right wing chooses to emphasize.
Christian Nationalists propaganda.
VP Biden (w/ his staff advisor Blinken) was the Obama admin point man on Ukraine & delivered the ultimatum that prompted the elected Ukrainian President to step down in 2014. Senators John McCain & Chris Murphy were on the stage in Maidan, in front of Nuland.
Not all Neo-Con hawks are Jewish. That's just a diversionary smear used to deflect any critique of the policies they advocate.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/neoconser ... nservative
There are plenty of gentiles in positions of power propelling us down this road to confrontation with Russia, with the ultimate goal of weakening Russia via regime change & the further dismemberment of the historic Russian nation. Nuland & Soros are 2 of the most impactful over the long run.
But right wing Christian Nationalists always mention Soros and Nuland, usually by themselves, and it ain't by accident.
I'm not saying you are anti-Semitic, but pretending to be oblivious (and I have to assume it's pretending at this point in our back and forth) is willfully repeating the anti-Semitic propaganda that is rampant in right wing media and right wing pseudo intellectual circles.
If you're opposed to democracy movements in those areas because of geo-political risks, we can have that conversation, but resorting to trolling anti-Semitic tropes is unhelpful. And I have to assume you know that by now, right?
Nuland & Soros are the 2 foremost influential, consistent examples, over time.
I posted examples of what they are doing to make them so.
That should make you look beyond your willful blindness to what you're doing by repeating mindless tropes.
I expect that sort of thing from TLD & ffg. I thought that you would be intellectually honest enough to rise above that.
You've made clear that you're unwilling to avoid the obvious anti-semitism.
Why that is, is not clear...but you're definitely making a choice.
You choose to name two people, yes, prominent in these efforts, with very understandable personal roots.
We get it, democracy is anathema to the international Christian Nationalist authoritarian movement...and focusing on two Jews plays to the longstanding prejudices and conspiracy theory that Jews control the world and need to eliminated. Demonization is the whole point.
It's your choice to only mention them.