VIRGINIA Lacrosse

[Matnum PI]

There's a 0% chance that they didn't know about each other in HS. And, I assume, the 2nd that committed knew that the other was committing before committing. So, with that said, Why would the #1 or #2 goalie in the nation go to school where the #1 or #2 goalie in the nation is also going?

[Peter Brown]

There's a 0% chance that they didn't know about each other in HS. And, I assume, the 2nd that committed knew that the other was committing before committing. So, with that said, Why would the #1 or #2 goalie in the nation go to school where the #1 or #2 goalie in the nation is also going?

I'm wondering if anyone on these boards knows of any historical situation in D1 where two goalies at this high a level (#1 high school AA's, plus in Rode's case a demonstrably great D1 ability) coexisted for 3-4 years splitting duty time?

I don't disagree with MDLax, I do think it's theoretically possible to get two incredibly great goalies to accept their fate, but I also think the margin of error managing that emotional process is almost nonexistent. Just looking at MDLax's son fate at Harvard (?), I am sure the kid burned that he was not rewarded for proving himself multiple times. And if that kid had been AA #1 (was he?), I would think the burn would hurt to the point where you would transfer, or god forbid quit.

If I look around at most major programs the last few decades, where there was an incredibly great starting goalie, I do not know of any situation where you had backup choices at the level of a Burkinshaw or Rode.

[admin]

For HS teams, for sure. for college, less simple. I can't think of one. Plenty of great freshmen who had to wait until they took over the mantle but... Not like this. I think the reality is that goalies (and coaches) know that only one plays and they don't get hurt so they make sure they're not in a situation like this. It's strange...

[MDlaxfan76]

RR is correct - we have no idea what the dynamics are, what conversations the coaches have had with Rode and Burkinshaw, or even the team for that matter.

Goalies have it weird. By the time you get to a program like UVA you are in one of two places: i) you have lived the life of biding your time while playing behind a great keeper who was ahead of you, or ii) you have always started and don;'t know how not to be the starter. If you have been (ii) above, I am thinking it is a big transition.

I don't know enough about either young man's high school careers to know if this is a new experience for them, but it is a growing one. Because guess what - in the real world you aren't always going to be "the man". In fact you are going to come out of college "the peon". How you deal with sitting when you are better than someone else, or getting usurped by someone younger than you, is going to reveal a lot about your character....

+1

[MDlaxfan76]

There's a 0% chance that they didn't know about each other in HS. And, I assume, the 2nd that committed knew that the other was committing before committing. So, with that said, Why would the #1 or #2 goalie in the nation go to school where the #1 or #2 goalie in the nation is also going?

I'm wondering if anyone on these boards knows of any historical situation in D1 where two goalies at this high a level (#1 high school AA's, plus in Rode's case a demonstrably great D1 ability) coexisted for 3-4 years splitting duty time?

I don't disagree with MDLax, I do think it's theoretically possible to get two incredibly great goalies to accept their fate, but I also think the margin of error managing that emotional process is almost nonexistent. Just looking at MDLax's son fate at Harvard (?), I am sure the kid burned that he was not rewarded for proving himself multiple times. And if that kid had been AA #1 (was he?), I would think the burn would hurt to the point where you would transfer, or god forbid quit.

If I look around at most major programs the last few decades, where there was an incredibly great starting goalie, I do not know of any situation where you had backup choices at the level of a Burkinshaw or Rode.

Not sure what #1 high school AA means.
If you mean the top rated recruit on IL, yup, both of these guys at UVA were #1 rated recruit on IL. So was the young man ahead of my son (who most definitely was not); my son knew he was a just one year behind the #1 recruit...he said to me, "dad, it doesn't matter where I go, there's always going to be guy I need to beat out." True.

AA on the other hand is distributed across many leagues in HS, they aren't #1, 2, 3 etc. Lot of AA's. But absolutely, both of these guys had great HS careers and came in highly touted.

The young man ahead of my son played behind a terrific goalie, All-Ivy, out of St. Paul's School (Baltimore), then got his chance when the older guy was hurt, then split. Started 28 games, appeared in 33. 48.6% career. All-Ivy his junior season, elected captain.

Guys get hurt, guys have tough days, other guys get hot. What was very impressive to me is how well he handled stepping back to a supporting role. Character. And so happy for him to finish with a career day in an upset of Yale.

BTW, yes, goalies typically have a 'screw loose', sometimes more than one!
EDIt, funny the forum auto corrects s-c-r-e-w to 'bag'.

[hens62]

If I look around at most major programs the last few decades, where there was an incredibly great starting goalie, I do not know of any situation where you had backup choices at the level of a Burkinshaw or Rode.

Scott Rodgers sat behind Joey Kemp for 3 years (redshirted one) at ND before starting just 2. Also the Denver Faus/LaPlant combo split halves for a full season, both AA level starters. Tierney stuck with the split after Laplant was lights out in 1st half of Final 4 vs. Cuse, ended up losing the game

[MDlaxfan76]

I think we could find quite a few programs which have had back to back AA level tenders, biding their time in waiting.

Maryland has had such recently.

Back in the dark ages I believe Cornell had two goalies, the same year, awarded AA status.

[admin]

Success at the NCAA level is more common. I think the issue is having two premier goalies, arguably #1 and #2 coming out of HS, going to the same team.

[MDlaxfan76]

Success at the NCAA level is more common. I think the issue is having two premier goalies, arguably #1 and #2 coming out of HS, going to the same team.

It's an indeed an embarrassment of riches.

But remember, the 2nd guy has a pretty good view of what he's stepping into. He may well have assessed it and felt he could win the job in due course. Which remains true, IMO. Just as it remains true that Alex could continue to improve into an AA level tender.

I raised this question right after Patrick didn't get the start post PU game as it seemed, at least by the #'s, that he'd at least earned the shot and Alex was, at that point, clearly having challenges.

But we don't necessarily have the full picture, so I can't call it a 'mistake'.

I was surprised by this 'transfer portal' process, how public it quickly became. Patrick may have been surprised as well! But we really don't know whether Patrick is committed to leaving or whether he had a change of heart after this blew up. Or whether he will as it plays out.

As for transferring tenders, I think we'd struggle more to find one who has transferred and then blossomed than finding guys who had to wait their turn and then proved they were top notch.

I do know that, again a #1 rated goalie recruit (after his junior HS season), was 3 years behind my son. Parents were super unhappy he wasn't playing as a freshman, and then flabbergasted that he wasn't as a sophomore. Transferred out. I haven't seen him emerge on another roster. Sometimes I think it's the parents that ratchet up all these playing time expectations!

[HooDat]

I think we could find quite a few programs which have had back to back AA level tenders, biding their time in waiting.

Maryland has had such recently.

yep Danny Morris waited 3 years to be the starting goalie on a national championship Maryland team - sometimes perseverance/patience pays off.....

edit - Actually I think he may have waited 4 - I think he red-=shirted a year and still only started ONE

[Pensky Material]

I think we could find quite a few programs which have had back to back AA level tenders, biding their time in waiting.

Maryland has had such recently.

yep Danny Morris waited 3 years to be the starting goalie on a national championship Maryland team - sometimes perseverance/patience pays off.....

edit - Actually I think he may have waited 4 - I think he red-=shirted a year and still only started ONE

*Morris started in the 2017/2018 seasons.

[DALaxDad]

Being from the dark ages, I’ll note that in 1971 Cornell was national champs and had two senior AA goaltenders. Bob Rule and Bob(?) Buhman split time their junior years (maybe one was a juco transfer). In any event, Rule started senior year, got hurt after clinching the Ivy championship, and then came back against Brown in the NCAA quarterfinals. Rule left the game losing 2-0 when he reinjured his knee and Buhman lead Cornell to the championship. AAs were named later back then.

[blue angels]

!

[MDlaxfan76]

Being from the dark ages, I’ll note that in 1971 Cornell was national champs and had two senior AA goaltenders. Bob Rule and Bob(?) Buhman split time their junior years (maybe one was a juco transfer). In any event, Rule started senior year, got hurt after clinching the Ivy championship, and then came back against Brown in the NCAA quarterfinals. Rule left the game losing 2-0 when he reinjured his knee and Buhman lead Cornell to the championship. AAs were named later back then.

Indeed, that’s the pair to whom I was referring.

[blue angels]

I know there are some non Virginia fans that have been pushing it, but think the proverbial dead horse has been beat. Can we move on from the goalie topic as it will play out in due time? This has been worse than a HOP thread hijack....... The Hoos have a big upcoming game.what do we feel about the match ups in this one?

[stupefied]

Different times. Putting your name into the transfer portal in season recalls Gary Templeton's infamous "If I ain't starting, I ain't departing ". A few cliches immediately came to mind ' No I in Team" , " Dont let the door hit you on the way out". Probably more to it but the awkwardness of situation must be somewhat distracting to team and certainly to Rode. Maybe he'll be the one to leave depending on how this is handled. Perhaps it's smoothed and salvaged but I would have designated Thompson as primary backup immediately and moved on.

[MDlaxfan76]

Different times. Putting your name into the transfer portal in season recalls Gary Templeton's infamous "If I ain't starting, I ain't departing ". A few cliches immediately came to mind ' No I in Team" , " Dont let the door hit you on the way out". Probably more to it but the awkwardness of situation must be somewhat distracting to team and certainly to Rode. Maybe he'll be the one to leave depending on how this is handled. Perhaps it's smoothed and salvaged but I would have designated Thompson as primary backup immediately and moved on.

Absolutely different times. Heck, this was the first time I think the words “transfer portal” have appeared on this forum or its predecessor!

I just don’t think we hoi polloi have a clue what it’s meaning to these guys and this team.

But thanks for the input. It’s great that Loyola and Syracuse fans have such concern.

Next game...

[ABV 8.3%]

Different times. Putting your name into the transfer portal in season recalls Gary Templeton's infamous "If I ain't starting, I ain't departing ". A few cliches immediately came to mind ' No I in Team" , " Dont let the door hit you on the way out". Probably more to it but the awkwardness of situation must be somewhat distracting to team and certainly to Rode. Maybe he'll be the one to leave depending on how this is handled. Perhaps it's smoothed and salvaged but I would have designated Thompson as primary backup immediately and moved on.

Absolutely different times. Heck, this was the first time I think the words “transfer portal” have appeared on this forum or its predecessor!

I just don’t think we hoi polloi have a clue what it’s meaning to these guys and this team.

But thanks for the input. It’s great that Loyola and Syracuse fans have such concern.

Next game...

I think the transfer portal isn't even a year old yet, so not surprised it's fresh.

[HooDat]

Guys, .....


......

I think "Transfer Portal" is a video game....

[stupefied]

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... tate/53589

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files ... ansfer.pdf

As relatively new , you have to familiarize yourself with the procedure. Involves going to the compliance office for them to fill and submit info and then send academic and athletic information to gauge eligibility for others

This specific forum topic is featured on Fan Lax home page. Did not realize it was exclusive to UVA fans