The Hate Directed at the LGBTQ+

[Typical Lax Dad]

I'd be upset as a parent too.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/calif ... f26d8&ei=6

Why? Chances are their child will lose to someone at some point. The earlier we learn these lessons the better.

Indeed, both 2nd and 3rd place finishers were blown away badly by the #1 finisher...a "biological female"....anyone bothered by the winner being so much better???

Why would they be?

Exactly.
Someone else was born with more speed...'biologically advantaged'.

ahh well

You can't possibly be saying that these are one in the same, can you?

In terms of losing, yeah.

There's almost always someone, bigger, stronger, faster, more coordinated...whatever...and these are biologically, genetically, determined traits. It doesn't really matter how someone was born with these traits; they are "biological advantages".

Individuals are different and that's a fact of life.

Now, what we do with them, how well we train our minds and bodies for peak performance, how well we rise to competition pressure, these are things to celebrate as one's own efforts.

Someone who competes in a sport that is timed always has themselves as their own measure. Improve my time and I've succeeded. But someone is almost always faster if I look hard enough to find that competition. Doesn't mean I failed, indeed I could run or swim or whatever my very fastest time and "lose"...yet I've succeeded in my own effort.

And if that's not how we're looking at high school sports, we're really missing the point.

It’s called “personal best”….

[DMac]

How is that done, they stay back a year or two in school in order to be eligible to play at that level?

This is far more prevalent and far more impactful than “transgender” athletes tilting competition. My son was actually 27 months younger than some of his “peers”. Some kids stay back and repeat 8th grade and then do grade to grade transfer in HS. Originally 2022, playing against 2024s and looking great. You have to have the bank to make it happen though. It’s “unfair”….I am surprised I haven’t seen more complaints from those concerned with competitive balance. It’s rampant in lacrosse.

My concern about transgender athletes wouldn't weigh an ounce if it could be put on a scale. I think it's an unfair advantage and while it's a helluva thing for a transgender to have to deal with I don't think that justifies their making it a helluva thing for everyone else to have to deal with. I don't lose any sleep over this.
The lax boys playing down is a fine lesson in manipulating, bending and twisting rules to give themselves an advantage. Seems like the great American way, he who lies and cheats the best wins. I don't see that as fair at all. My father kept me back in my freshman year to give me another year to grow and catch up with those I was playing with and against. I'm a September guy, was a year younger than most in my class and not one who matured physically early either. That year mattered, it was more an all even situation then, I wasn't the smallest and youngest anymore, was 6' 175 as a senior and graduated at 18. No one was looking for an advantage there, there's definitely an advantage for 16-17 year olds playing against 14-15 year olds. Moms and dads have their priorities out of whack there.

[MDlaxfan76]

Let's contrast for a moment 1) that with billions of people alive, if we look hard enough, we can always find someone taller, stronger, faster, or whatever, who is "better" at something than we are, recognizing than in doing so we ultimately "lose" that head to head comparison while pushing ourselves to be ever better as well...and 2) playing down an age level so that we eliminate from our competition those who are as developed physically as we are...so that we can "win" by "comparison"...

Which concept do we wish to promote for our kids?
Which prepares them better for life?

[DMac]

I'd be upset as a parent too.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/calif ... f26d8&ei=6

Why? Chances are their child will lose to someone at some point. The earlier we learn these lessons the better.

Indeed, both 2nd and 3rd place finishers were blown away badly by the #1 finisher...a "biological female"....anyone bothered by the winner being so much better???

Why would they be?

Exactly.
Someone else was born with more speed...'biologically advantaged'.

ahh well

You can't possibly be saying that these are one in the same, can you?

In terms of losing, yeah.

There's almost always someone, bigger, stronger, faster, more coordinated...whatever...and these are biologically, genetically, determined traits. It doesn't really matter how someone was born with these traits; they are "biological advantages".

Individuals are different and that's a fact of life.

Now, what we do with them, how well we train our minds and bodies for peak performance, how well we rise to competition pressure, these are things to celebrate as one's own efforts.

Someone who competes in a sport that is timed always has themselves as their own measure. Improve my time and I've succeeded. But someone is almost always faster if I look hard enough to find that competition. Doesn't mean I failed, indeed I could run or swim or whatever my very fastest time and "lose"...yet I've succeeded in my own effort.

And if that's not how we're looking at high school sports, we're really missing the point.

While this is all true it's jibber jabber nonsense that is avoiding the issue at hand.
Born male competing against females is the issue.

[Farfromgeneva]

That's baloney, Snake. Why don't we have HS pitchers pitching LL ball then, or college GKs in the cage for youth league lax?
Do we teach fair play anymore? Don't like it, think it's wrong.

I am more concerned with 16/17 year olds posing as freshmen lacrosse players in high school.

25yr olds in college too

[Farfromgeneva]

How is that done, they stay back a year or two in school in order to be eligible to play at that level?

I started coaching a rec youth league team last year and we had 8 & 9yr olds playing against deep suburban teams who would “have to pull kids down for numbers” yet their rosters had 1/3 more players than us and so every team we’d play had numerous kids between 11-13yrs old and every team has three kids nearly a foot taller than our biggest kid.

That’s disgusting and a bigger problem than your story .

[Typical Lax Dad]

How is that done, they stay back a year or two in school in order to be eligible to play at that level?

This is far more prevalent and far more impactful than “transgender” athletes tilting competition. My son was actually 27 months younger than some of his “peers”. Some kids stay back and repeat 8th grade and then do grade to grade transfer in HS. Originally 2022, playing against 2024s and looking great. You have to have the bank to make it happen though. It’s “unfair”….I am surprised I haven’t seen more complaints from those concerned with competitive balance. It’s rampant in lacrosse.

My concern about transgender athletes wouldn't weigh an ounce if it could be put on a scale. I think it's an unfair advantage and while it's a helluva thing for a transgender to have to deal with I don't think that justifies their making it a helluva thing for everyone else to have to deal with. I don't lose any sleep over this.
The lax boys playing down is a fine lesson in manipulating, bending and twisting rules to give themselves an advantage. Seems like the great American way, he who lies and cheats the best wins. I don't see that as fair at all. My father kept me back in my freshman year to give me another year to grow and catch up with those I was playing with and against. I'm a September guy, was a year younger than most in my class and not one who matured physically early either. That year mattered, it was more an all even situation then, I wasn't the smallest and youngest anymore, was 6' 175 as a senior and graduated at 18. No one was looking for an advantage there, there's definitely an advantage for 16-17 year olds playing against 14-15 year olds. Moms and dads have their priorities out of whack there.

You mention it a lot. The way this story stays prominent is that people keep talking about it. A single beer can with a transgender person on it has made global news. It’s the power of media.

Kids playing down in sports is far more impactful for people frequenting this board than these transgender folks…..some have benefited and some have been disadvantaged….I would have expected to see more furor about it…..

[DMac]

I think a lot is quite a stretch. Further, this is The Hate Directed at the LGBTQ+ thread, not the kids playing down thread.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I think a lot is quite a stretch. Further, this is The Hate Directed at the LGBTQ+ thread, not the kids playing down thread.

In what way is “a lot quite a stretch”? I was making a relative comparison, not that folks should be complaining about kids tilting the playing field by playing down in this thread.

[DMac]

I don't think I mention it a lot. I get involved in the discussion once in awhile.

[PizzaSnake]

How is that done, they stay back a year or two in school in order to be eligible to play at that level?

This is far more prevalent and far more impactful than “transgender” athletes tilting competition. My son was actually 27 months younger than some of his “peers”. Some kids stay back and repeat 8th grade and then do grade to grade transfer in HS. Originally 2022, playing against 2024s and looking great. You have to have the bank to make it happen though. It’s “unfair”….I am surprised I haven’t seen more complaints from those concerned with competitive balance. It’s rampant in lacrosse.

Another life lesson best learned early — someone’s always gaming the system. It is human nature.

Oh, and life isn’t fair…

[Farfromgeneva]

I'd be upset as a parent too.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/calif ... f26d8&ei=6

Why? Chances are their child will lose to someone at some point. The earlier we learn these lessons the better.

Indeed, both 2nd and 3rd place finishers were blown away badly by the #1 finisher...a "biological female"....anyone bothered by the winner being so much better???

Why would they be?

Exactly.
Someone else was born with more speed...'biologically advantaged'.

ahh well

You can't possibly be saying that these are one in the same, can you?

In terms of losing, yeah.

There's almost always someone, bigger, stronger, faster, more coordinated...whatever...and these are biologically, genetically, determined traits. It doesn't really matter how someone was born with these traits; they are "biological advantages".

Individuals are different and that's a fact of life.

Now, what we do with them, how well we train our minds and bodies for peak performance, how well we rise to competition pressure, these are things to celebrate as one's own efforts.

Someone who competes in a sport that is timed always has themselves as their own measure. Improve my time and I've succeeded. But someone is almost always faster if I look hard enough to find that competition. Doesn't mean I failed, indeed I could run or swim or whatever my very fastest time and "lose"...yet I've succeeded in my own effort.

And if that's not how we're looking at high school sports, we're really missing the point.

It’s called “personal best”….

Been telling my son that lately - don’t worry about Reyn (our best player) do better than you did last time.

But, there’s always room for some Skee Lo’s out there

I wish I was a little bit taller I wish I was a baller I wish I had a girl who looked good so I could call her..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cmXZOI7cM0M

[Typical Lax Dad]

I don't think I mention it a lot. I get involved in the discussion once in awhile.

It’s perception perhaps. Anyway, far more important issues facing this country. Ruling class wants the peasants focused on nonsense like a picture on a beer can or less than 100 transgender athletes…the worker drones won’t notice how much further behind they are.

[MDlaxfan76]

I'd be upset as a parent too.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/calif ... f26d8&ei=6

Why? Chances are their child will lose to someone at some point. The earlier we learn these lessons the better.

Indeed, both 2nd and 3rd place finishers were blown away badly by the #1 finisher...a "biological female"....anyone bothered by the winner being so much better???

Why would they be?

Exactly.
Someone else was born with more speed...'biologically advantaged'.

ahh well

You can't possibly be saying that these are one in the same, can you?

In terms of losing, yeah.

There's almost always someone, bigger, stronger, faster, more coordinated...whatever...and these are biologically, genetically, determined traits. It doesn't really matter how someone was born with these traits; they are "biological advantages".

Individuals are different and that's a fact of life.

Now, what we do with them, how well we train our minds and bodies for peak performance, how well we rise to competition pressure, these are things to celebrate as one's own efforts.

Someone who competes in a sport that is timed always has themselves as their own measure. Improve my time and I've succeeded. But someone is almost always faster if I look hard enough to find that competition. Doesn't mean I failed, indeed I could run or swim or whatever my very fastest time and "lose"...yet I've succeeded in my own effort.

And if that's not how we're looking at high school sports, we're really missing the point.

While this is all true it's jibber jabber nonsense that is avoiding the issue at hand.
Born male competing against females is the issue.

Trust me, I understood the concern you are expressing.

Do you see my point, though?

Beat your own time through effort and perseverance, success.
Lose to someone who has "biological advantages", not a failure.

There's always someone with "biological advantages"...get over it.
Be your own best.

At any endeavor.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I'd be upset as a parent too.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/calif ... f26d8&ei=6

Why? Chances are their child will lose to someone at some point. The earlier we learn these lessons the better.

Indeed, both 2nd and 3rd place finishers were blown away badly by the #1 finisher...a "biological female"....anyone bothered by the winner being so much better???

Why would they be?

Exactly.
Someone else was born with more speed...'biologically advantaged'.

ahh well

You can't possibly be saying that these are one in the same, can you?

In terms of losing, yeah.

There's almost always someone, bigger, stronger, faster, more coordinated...whatever...and these are biologically, genetically, determined traits. It doesn't really matter how someone was born with these traits; they are "biological advantages".

Individuals are different and that's a fact of life.

Now, what we do with them, how well we train our minds and bodies for peak performance, how well we rise to competition pressure, these are things to celebrate as one's own efforts.

Someone who competes in a sport that is timed always has themselves as their own measure. Improve my time and I've succeeded. But someone is almost always faster if I look hard enough to find that competition. Doesn't mean I failed, indeed I could run or swim or whatever my very fastest time and "lose"...yet I've succeeded in my own effort.

And if that's not how we're looking at high school sports, we're really missing the point.

While this is all true it's jibber jabber nonsense that is avoiding the issue at hand.
Born male competing against females is the issue.

Born “male” isn’t so straight forward. You do know a doctor often makes that call at birth, right?

https://isna.org/faq/frequency/#

Here’s what we do know: If you ask experts at medical centers how often a child is born so noticeably atypical in terms of genitalia that a specialist in sex differentiation is called in, the number comes out to about 1 in 1500 to 1 in 2000 births. But a lot more people than that are born with subtler forms of sex anatomy variations, some of which won’t show up until later in life.

It’s not that easy when you know nothing at all about a person’s medical history. My wife teaches genetics so I have come across some of this…. Not always as straightforward as we laymen think.

[Typical Lax Dad]

For anyone interested in more information:

https://isna.org/faq/patient-centered/

What does ISNA recommend for children with intersex?
After years of consultation with people with intersex conditions, their parents, their healthcare providers, and others, the following Patient-Centered Model is what ISNA recommends.

Children with intersex, parents of those children, and adults with intersex should be treated in an open, shame-free, supportive, and honest way. They should consistently be told the truth (this includes providers being honest about uncertainty), and should be given copies of medical records as soon and as often as they ask for them.
Children and adults with intersex, and their family members, should be provided with access to trained psychologists and social workers, especially when they are in distress (as some parents of newborns with intersex are). Parental distress should not be treated with “normalizing” surgery on children, nor should surgeons, endocrinologists, and other non-psycho-social specialists attempt to cover family’s counseling needs.
Care providers should also attempt to connect children and adults with intersex and parents of children with intersex so that they can give each other peer support outside of the clinical setting. This helps validate their feelings and experiences. Peer support saves families and lives.
Following diagnostic work-up, newborns with intersex should be given a gender assignment as boy or girl, depending on which of those genders the child is more likely to feel as she or he grows up. Note that gender assignment does \__not__ involve surgery; it involves assigning a label as boy or girl to a child. (Genital “normalizing” surgery does not create or cement a gender identity; it just takes tissue away that they patient may want later.)
Medical procedures necessary to sustain the physical health of a child should be performed. Examples of these would be endocrinological treatment of a child with salt-wasting congenital hyperplasia, or surgery to provide a urinary drainage opening when a child is born without one.
Surgeries done to make the genitals look “more normal” should not be performed until a child is mature enough to make an informed decision for herself or himself. Before the patient makes a decision, she or he should be introduced to patients who have and have not had the surgery. Once she or he is fully informed, she or he should be provided access to a patient-centered surgeon.
Does this mean ISNA recommends “doing nothing”? Not at all. Please re-read the above, and if you’d like more information about how our recommendations differ from the traditional concealment-centered model, check out our chart called Shifting the Paradigm of Intersex Treatment.

[PizzaSnake]

I'd be upset as a parent too.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/calif ... f26d8&ei=6

Why? Chances are their child will lose to someone at some point. The earlier we learn these lessons the better.

Indeed, both 2nd and 3rd place finishers were blown away badly by the #1 finisher...a "biological female"....anyone bothered by the winner being so much better???

Why would they be?

Exactly.
Someone else was born with more speed...'biologically advantaged'.

ahh well

You can't possibly be saying that these are one in the same, can you?

In terms of losing, yeah.

There's almost always someone, bigger, stronger, faster, more coordinated...whatever...and these are biologically, genetically, determined traits. It doesn't really matter how someone was born with these traits; they are "biological advantages".

Individuals are different and that's a fact of life.

Now, what we do with them, how well we train our minds and bodies for peak performance, how well we rise to competition pressure, these are things to celebrate as one's own efforts.

Someone who competes in a sport that is timed always has themselves as their own measure. Improve my time and I've succeeded. But someone is almost always faster if I look hard enough to find that competition. Doesn't mean I failed, indeed I could run or swim or whatever my very fastest time and "lose"...yet I've succeeded in my own effort.

And if that's not how we're looking at high school sports, we're really missing the point.

While this is all true it's jibber jabber nonsense that is avoiding the issue at hand.
Born male competing against females is the issue.

Oh no, the Jibberjabberwocky!!

“’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

“Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!”

[NattyBohChamps04]

I don't think I mention it a lot. I get involved in the discussion once in awhile.

You don't mention it a lot because it's very rare.

You mention it a lot because when it does pop up in the news you post stuff. Again and again.

Trans people are the whipping boy of the right at the moment. Because they are a very small group and aren't as popular or well defended as gay men and women because they're a much smaller population.

They mostly want to simply live their lives. A few are into athletics. State and national governing bodies have been working on integrating them properly for decades before Republicans began whining. We get one or two stories per year, and it's fair to compare it to other instances of unfairness that are much more prevalent. Which is why it's proper to bring up age issues in this thread as a comparison as they affect many more athletes than trans people.

[DMac]

Fair enough, no doubt I've fallen victim to the sensationalism, exaggerations, and flat out bullschidt that is the news where mountains from molehills are built. Don't think about this until it's put in front of my face and pushed my way. Still not buying the a lot and again and again part though.
Parents holding their kids back is just garbage. Low life garbage at that. Self indulgence, manipulation, disregard for fair play.
15 year old dominates the 13 year old. Put it on YouTube, sell the sizzle. Not a chance of my beating my brother at 14 and 13
in much of anything (ping pong could hold my own), the physical difference is a huge advantage. Can't be all that hard to fix that with some rules.

[Farfromgeneva]

Fair enough, no doubt I've fallen victim to the sensationalism, exaggerations, and flat out bullschidt that is the news where mountains from molehills are built. Don't think about this until it's put in front of my face and pushed my way. Still not buying the a lot and again and again part though.
Parents holding their kids back is just garbage. Low life garbage at that. Self indulgence, manipulation, disregard for fair play.
15 year old dominates the 13 year old. Put it on YouTube, sell the sizzle. Not a chance of my beating my brother at 14 and 13
in much of anything (ping pong could hold my own), the physical difference is a huge advantage. Can't be all that hard to fix that with some rules.

The interesting aspect that is almost like a metaphor South Park would wrap an episode around to create a moral:

Nobody wants to fix the playing down mass cheating in lacrosse. It’s fine to look the other way while younger children are taking advantage of HY older ones as the parents stand on the sidelines. (It’s abuse-I watched it all fall and spring beee and these trams w 20 kids dancing as they pull away while refs are letting our kids get slashed and cross checked by 12-13yrs olds, 1-2x I nearly had it on the sideline and I really didn’t care at all about record but my kids writhing in pain crying and everyone here who’s watched lacrosse or any physical sport knows when one team has an appearance they get away with more physicality including a lot of illegal contact)

Lots (one sided but a large number) of parents, having a solution looking for a problem, create public and mass misdirection claiming some kid who’s probably already had it really really rough in life that transitions and wants to run in times circles that not many people stand around and watch below the Olympic level including parents is abusing other children while they pile on tot he deeply life disadvantaged kid.

Theres probably an even nastier one of these re: Catholic Church, abortion and the death penalty but this fits a lacrosse website.

(The same people who got hooked on “Biden Crime Family” idiocy predominantly)