VIRGINIA Lacrosse

[MDlaxfan76]

I’m just going to (safely) assume you did not watch this game MDLax, and are idly speculating on some plucked and not meaningful stats. Not all goals or shots are equal. Your analysis is similar to an HR director awarding a bonus to the captain of the Titanic because the ship sank ‘fast’ because after all, ‘speed’ was part of his KPI grade.

If a UNC shot was halfway decent in the third quarter, it went in. Burkinshaw couldn’t get his stick on anything. End of half, 6-6. End of 3rd, 12-8 UNC. Meaning UNC put in the same number of goals in one quarter (v Burk) than the first two (v Rode).

Tiffany imo with this move just knocked down Rode’s confidence in a big way. He also elevated the guy who has indicated he’s blowing out after this year, which his teammates might have issues with. As the end of game whistle blew, UVA’s kids did not look ‘victorious’.

My sideline call: bad move. I said earlier this year Tiffany should have kept Burkinshaw as the starter after the Princeton game. He didn’t. He put Rode back in, leading Burkinshaw to put his name in the transfer portal. Like I said, Lars has boxed himself in here.

Yes, I was at a HS game so missed it; anyone know where there's a replay?

But, I'm still not following your logic.

Are you saying that Rode was playing well???

Again, he was just 25% after the first couple of minutes.

I certainly didn't say Burkinshaw had a good game, but are you saying that his 4 saves in the 3rd Q versus 5 goals were all on bad shots?

On the argument that Burkinshaw gave up as many goals in the 3rd Q as Rode did in the first half, you do realize that he saw just one less shot in that Q than Rode did in his full half? UNC had the mo. They ran out of gas at the end and mo shifted, thank goodness.

I just don't see how you reach the conclusion that Tiffany's decision, likely with Kip Turner's input, was necessarily wrong. If Rode had been playing 50% ball, he continues. But he wasn't. And, on the other end, UNC's tender was hot. Tough call, sure, but one the coaches are paid to make.

Nor that it somehow dispirited the team, or even that it eroded Rode's "confidence".

That's highly speculative, and quite likely not correct on the team spirit.
For Alex, though, I have some empathy. However, this is the job for which tender's sign up. Buckle up and watch the ball in practice and be ready for the next game. Period.

I say that as a former D1 tender, son of a 3X AA goalie and dad of an all-Ivy goalie; It's rough, but that's the gig.
I'd be willing to bet that Alex will indeed 'buckle up' and be ready...to be the best he can.
And that Patrick will as well.

I'll be surprised if the Hoos go deep in the NCAA's this year, but, hey, who would have predicted this level of rebound in 2019?

Believe it or not, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Coaches ARE paid to make the hard decisions.

Lars should have kept the hot hand in after the Princeton game (Burkinshaw). Instead, he put him back on the bench. Rode surprisingly started the next game and played well enough from them on to not get benched again, obviously frustrating Burkinshaw (the old adage of 'who do I need to cough-cough around here to be the starter' comes to mind; the kid had 24 saves against a great offensive Princeton squad!).

I do think that goalie drama at UVA would have happened no matter what; both goalies should be starting on a college team and both have years left to play. But, and this is key, Burkinshaw made the bigger mistake by placing his name in the transfer portal; that's a red line for most teammates and one that as a coach, you might not want to cross if you want your team to gel.

Lars risked team unity by putting Burkinshaw back in. You are correct; I do not know all the variables. But my gut tells me Lars made mistakes here, both after Princeton and this weekend versus UNC. We will see how it plays out...I hope for both kids' sake, there's a great outcome, though not at the expense of a much better Loyola squad!

I, too, was puzzled by the decision to go back to Alex after Patrick had such a wonderful game against PU. I think I made that puzzlement pretty clear on here, though opinions are a dime a dozen!

The statistics seemed way in favor of the freshman getting the job thereon, or at least until he had an off day. But we really don't know the backdrop, the behind the scenes, that led to continuing with Rode.

Just like we really don't know the day to day, week to week, of how these guys are preparing, who is hurt, who is not, etc.

And I also don't think we necessarily know the whole story on the portal situation, either.

Of course, speculation is all part of a thread like this!

My bottomline on this one has two main parts:

1) Goalies need to learn that it's a team game and their position is like others, the guy who the coaches believe can best help at any given moment is who will play. Be ready, your moment could be any time.

2) Lars and crew have a good track record with goalies, I'd tend to give them the benefit of the doubt in managing the situation, egos and all.

Last, there've been a lot of naysayers about Lars and his staff, their system, the emphasis on building a healthier culture, etc. They had been pointing to the scoreboard to suggest that Lars and crew were falling short.

I still don't think they have the horses defensively to go deep in 2019, but they've certainly outperformed expectations.

I happen to be a Toomey fan, and fan of multiple Loyola players, so hope your Greyhounds finish strong too... just not at the Hoos' expense!

[HooDat]

I do think that goalie drama at UVA would have happened no matter what; both goalies should be starting on a college team and both have years left to play. But, and this is key, Burkinshaw made the bigger mistake by placing his name in the transfer portal; that's a red line for most teammates and one that as a coach, you might not want to cross if you want your team to gel.

Lars risked team unity by putting Burkinshaw back in. You are correct; I do not know all the variables. But my gut tells me Lars made mistakes here, both after Princeton and this weekend versus UNC. We will see how it plays out...I hope for both kids' sake, there's a great outcome, though not at the expense of a much better Loyola squad!

I was not the least bit surprised when they made the switch in the UNC game. The Cuse switch also made sense, in that the visibility in the dome is famous for eating up young goalies. And I agree with a lot of folks here who say that I expected Burkinshaw back in the goal in the next game, and was surprised when he was not.

What we don't know is the locker room situation. Maybe the team is in Burkinshaw's corner. Maybe they encouraged him to put his name in the portal. Maybe Burkinshaw is an 18/19 year old (and I mean everything that comes with being that age.....)

Tiffany and Kip don't seem to have their feelings hurt - they put the kid in. The team did't look defeated or upset that he was in, in fact they rallied for a great comeback.

[Mr3Putt]

Does anyone remember last years Acc title game? 3 qtrs ND 29 shots, Rode 6 saves, 13 goals given up. 17-7 ND

[blue angels]

Last, there've been a lot of naysayers about Lars and his staff, their system, the emphasis on building a healthier culture, etc. They had been pointing to the scoreboard to suggest that Lars and crew were falling short.

I still don't think they have the horses defensively to go deep in 2019, but they've certainly outperformed expectations.[/quote]

This is the crux of it all. Over his short tenure, There have been several posters constantly saying Lars has lost the team, denigrating strategy and decisions without the benefit of knowing what has gone on in practice or off field. The negativity appeared even as recently as early this season which started slowly. The motives of 1 or 2 who seemed to have some bone to pick with the staff now look a little questionable. All the team has done is win. I am not sure I agree with your last statement either. There are 5 or 6 teams that could win it all as no dominant team exists and everyone has weaknesses. IMO, Virginia has met expectations this year. An early exit from the NCAA would be disappointing but they have as good a chance to make it to Memorial Day as anyone else.

[Peter Brown]

[quote="blue angels" post_id=46396 time=1556625815 user_id=460}

This is the crux of it all. Over his short tenure, There have been several posters constantly saying Lars has lost the team, denigrating strategy and decisions without the benefit of knowing what has gone on in practice or off field. The negativity appeared even as recently as early this season which started slowly. The motives of 1 or 2 who seemed to have some bone to pick with the staff now look a little questionable. All the team has done is win. I am not sure I agree with your last statement either. There are 5 or 6 teams that could win it all as no dominant team exists and everyone has weaknesses. IMO, Virginia has met expectations this year. An early exit from the NCAA would be disappointing but they have as good a chance to make it to Memorial Day as anyone else.

[/quote]


This is from Quint's weekly report:

The Hoos have a goalie controversy; quick hooks and the transfer portal are an equation for choppy seas.

I'd agree with Blue Angels that no team appears dominant. Yale seems to have the best avenue to the final game, but that is strictly because Ierlan is on a tear. If one FOGO neutralizes Ierlan, and those people do exist, Yale will be exposed. Penn State seems very capable, but the almost-loss against Rutgers makes me wonder about them now too.

I saw Notre Dame play this weekend. I just can not understand how those guys have lost 5 games. Their depth of dodgers is unmatched imo, plus they have a great FOGO.

I don't know. let's play the games.

[wgdsr]

5 of the 7 shots that unc scored in the second half are goals 8 out of 10 times against all but the red-hottest of goalies. 2 could be quibbled with, but not by me, off side bouncers. he also made several big saves, including a couple right on top of him.
rode... just say didn't have his best day. he's still a sophomore, and seems to run pretty hot and cold.

i've been a critic here and there of the handling of the goalie situation, but like all of you don't have all the information that has gone into this (usually scrutinized) type of decision. no doubt the coaches are making decisions based on what they feel will give them the best chance to win, for their team to perform. right or wrong.

re: the transfer portal: bad timing and optics for sure, especially that something like that gets made public. the guy is 19 years old. but there's maybe a good deal less anarchy and dysfunction in today's upper level sports than the good 'ole days for a situation like this. even bottom feeder college lacrosse isn't immune from the trappings of sports growing larger. coaches salaries tripling and more. pressure to win. budgets/branding. players that have an eye toward their own self-preservation can be excused within the group for not being only about the team, long term, when they see what's going on around them. one and done's, nc$$ football players suing the nc$$. 6 a.m. practices, while coaches live a pretty cushy lifestyle and will plug and play the next kid they bring in to play over you.

in any event, nothing would surprise me next. maybe they'll be splitting halves unless the starter is on fire. mix it up. that's what the coaches are paid to do, make those calls. imo, 2 things make the whole issue moot: if burkinshaw is a good dude, and if rode has the thick skin you need to be a great goalie.

these guys have been the cardiac kids, never give up, ride hard, make mistakes, but are an exciting (and sometimes frustrating, but less than last year) team to watch. lot of winning by the skin of their teeth, but the 2 years prior had a lot of that go the other way. a lot of these guys have been in the fire, so i'd bet they'll take their chances if they get in a tight game in the show.

[Peter Brown]

I don't know, wgdr:

1. to say Rode was having 'a bad game' when he was at 40% in the first half is a bit of a stretch to rationalize Lars' decision. Coaches should give starters some rope to make halftime corrections; hooks should happen only when you're in a real funk. Meanwhile, the score was 6-6, it wasn't like the team was in desperation mode (in fact if anything, they lost energy with the move, proceeding to go down 12-8 in the follow-on quarter).

2. I think most of us agree that Lars should have stayed with the hot hand in Burkinshaw after Princeton. I just don't agree that a transfer portal notification is something teammates easily look past because 'this is a new era'. Lacrosse continues to be a close knit sport and teammates rely on each other for so much.

3. You are right though, we have no information other than what we see.

4. Loyola will still beat the Hoos and I for one hope young Patrick Burkinshaw wears a Hounds jersey next year!

[blue angels]

I don't know, wgdr:

1. to say Rode was having 'a bad game' when he was at 40% in the first half is a bit of a stretch to rationalize Lars' decision. Coaches should give starters some rope to make halftime corrections; hooks should happen only when you're in a real funk. Meanwhile, the score was 6-6, it wasn't like the team was in desperation mode (in fact if anything, they lost energy with the move, proceeding to go down 12-8 in the follow-on quarter).

2. I think most of us agree that Lars should have stayed with the hot hand in Burkinshaw after Princeton. I just don't agree that a transfer portal notification is something teammates easily look past because 'this is a new era'. Lacrosse continues to be a close knit sport and teammates rely on each other for so much.

3. You are right though, we have no information other than what we see.

4. Loyola will still beat the Hoos and I for one hope young Patrick Burkinshaw wears a Hounds jersey next year!

1 Obvious thing: you are a lot more worried about Virginia than we are about Loyola.

[rasheed]

I don't know, wgdr:

1. to say Rode was having 'a bad game' when he was at 40% in the first half is a bit of a stretch to rationalize Lars' decision. Coaches should give starters some rope to make halftime corrections; hooks should happen only when you're in a real funk. Meanwhile, the score was 6-6, it wasn't like the team was in desperation mode (in fact if anything, they lost energy with the move, proceeding to go down 12-8 in the follow-on quarter).

2. I think most of us agree that Lars should have stayed with the hot hand in Burkinshaw after Princeton. I just don't agree that a transfer portal notification is something teammates easily look past because 'this is a new era'. Lacrosse continues to be a close knit sport and teammates rely on each other for so much.

3. You are right though, we have no information other than what we see.

4. Loyola will still beat the Hoos and I for one hope young Patrick Burkinshaw wears a Hounds jersey next year!

1 Obvious thing: you are a lot more worried about Virginia than we are about Loyola.

post of the week. LOL. Love it!

[Peter Brown]

I don't know, wgdr:

1. to say Rode was having 'a bad game' when he was at 40% in the first half is a bit of a stretch to rationalize Lars' decision. Coaches should give starters some rope to make halftime corrections; hooks should happen only when you're in a real funk. Meanwhile, the score was 6-6, it wasn't like the team was in desperation mode (in fact if anything, they lost energy with the move, proceeding to go down 12-8 in the follow-on quarter).

2. I think most of us agree that Lars should have stayed with the hot hand in Burkinshaw after Princeton. I just don't agree that a transfer portal notification is something teammates easily look past because 'this is a new era'. Lacrosse continues to be a close knit sport and teammates rely on each other for so much.

3. You are right though, we have no information other than what we see.

4. Loyola will still beat the Hoos and I for one hope young Patrick Burkinshaw wears a Hounds jersey next year!

1 Obvious thing: you are a lot more worried about Virginia than we are about Loyola.

Let me help here: https://virginiasports.com/news/2019/2/ ... oyola.aspx

[MDlaxfan76]

I don't know, wgdr:

1. to say Rode was having 'a bad game' when he was at 40% in the first half is a bit of a stretch to rationalize Lars' decision. Coaches should give starters some rope to make halftime corrections; hooks should happen only when you're in a real funk. Meanwhile, the score was 6-6, it wasn't like the team was in desperation mode (in fact if anything, they lost energy with the move, proceeding to go down 12-8 in the follow-on quarter).

2. I think most of us agree that Lars should have stayed with the hot hand in Burkinshaw after Princeton. I just don't agree that a transfer portal notification is something teammates easily look past because 'this is a new era'. Lacrosse continues to be a close knit sport and teammates rely on each other for so much.

3. You are right though, we have no information other than what we see.

4. Loyola will still beat the Hoos and I for one hope young Patrick Burkinshaw wears a Hounds jersey next year!

1 Obvious thing: you are a lot more worried about Virginia than we are about Loyola.

Let me help here: https://virginiasports.com/news/2019/2/ ... oyola.aspx

Yup, terrific game by Stover. Over his career he's had good days and bad days, been pulled and been the guy who stepped in both, tons of experience under his belt and well coached. I'm a fan of his and hope he finishes his college career strongly.

On Rode's last game, you ignore that he was 25% after minute 6. Would he have rebounded in the second half? Perhaps. Did the coaches think Burkinshaw was more likely to play 50+% ball? Apparently.

Both these guys, Alex and Patrick, are young and hopefully resilient. And certainly capable of excellent play.

This is a lax discussion board, so certainly the topic makes sense. Folks are free to have opinions and others are free to disagree. I'm rooting for both of these guys to play well, whoever is in the net, and for the other to support the starter and be ready to step in if/when needed.

[Peter Brown]

I don't know, wgdr:

1. to say Rode was having 'a bad game' when he was at 40% in the first half is a bit of a stretch to rationalize Lars' decision. Coaches should give starters some rope to make halftime corrections; hooks should happen only when you're in a real funk. Meanwhile, the score was 6-6, it wasn't like the team was in desperation mode (in fact if anything, they lost energy with the move, proceeding to go down 12-8 in the follow-on quarter).

2. I think most of us agree that Lars should have stayed with the hot hand in Burkinshaw after Princeton. I just don't agree that a transfer portal notification is something teammates easily look past because 'this is a new era'. Lacrosse continues to be a close knit sport and teammates rely on each other for so much.

3. You are right though, we have no information other than what we see.

4. Loyola will still beat the Hoos and I for one hope young Patrick Burkinshaw wears a Hounds jersey next year!

1 Obvious thing: you are a lot more worried about Virginia than we are about Loyola.

Let me help here: https://virginiasports.com/news/2019/2/ ... oyola.aspx

Yup, terrific game by Stover. Over his career he's had good days and bad days, been pulled and been the guy who stepped in both, tons of experience under his belt and well coached. I'm a fan of his and hope he finishes his college career strongly.

On Rode's last game, you ignore that he was 25% after minute 6. Would he have rebounded in the second half? Perhaps. Did the coaches think Burkinshaw was more likely to play 50+% ball? Apparently.

Both these guys, Alex and Patrick, are young and hopefully resilient. And certainly capable of excellent play.

This is a lax discussion board, so certainly the topic makes sense. Folks are free to have opinions and others are free to disagree. I'm rooting for both of these guys to play well, whoever is in the net, and for the other to support the starter and be ready to step in if/when needed.

Ryan Darby was 15% for HOP against Maryland and Petro didn't pull. As you know MDLax, as a goalie, it can be rough to know you're getting the hook when going 40% in save percentage in one half.

I think you guys are bending over to find ways to excuse Lars' handling of this situation, all of his own making which could have been avoided simply by keeping Burkinsahw in as starter after the Princeton game. Further, I think you guys are willfully ignoring the elephant in the room ('what's that huge thing in the corner, let's ignore it and keep drinking our tea''?), which is Burkinshaw put his name into the transfer portal; you simply can not tell me that that move is not an issue for team culture. And supposing Lars keeps starting Burkinshaw, and Burkinshaw responds with stellar play, do both goalies transfer out at the season end because no one trusts Lars now?

Anyway, I've admittedly beat this to death, but primarily because you guys seem unwilling to face some sobering reality here. And I'll even say this: UVA has the talent to win the national championship (Dom got Conrad and Aitken I believe then Lars got Moore and Burkinshaw?; those are the 4 top players four years in a row)

[MDlaxfan76]

I don't know, wgdr:

1. to say Rode was having 'a bad game' when he was at 40% in the first half is a bit of a stretch to rationalize Lars' decision. Coaches should give starters some rope to make halftime corrections; hooks should happen only when you're in a real funk. Meanwhile, the score was 6-6, it wasn't like the team was in desperation mode (in fact if anything, they lost energy with the move, proceeding to go down 12-8 in the follow-on quarter).

2. I think most of us agree that Lars should have stayed with the hot hand in Burkinshaw after Princeton. I just don't agree that a transfer portal notification is something teammates easily look past because 'this is a new era'. Lacrosse continues to be a close knit sport and teammates rely on each other for so much.

3. You are right though, we have no information other than what we see.

4. Loyola will still beat the Hoos and I for one hope young Patrick Burkinshaw wears a Hounds jersey next year!

1 Obvious thing: you are a lot more worried about Virginia than we are about Loyola.

Let me help here: https://virginiasports.com/news/2019/2/ ... oyola.aspx

Yup, terrific game by Stover. Over his career he's had good days and bad days, been pulled and been the guy who stepped in both, tons of experience under his belt and well coached. I'm a fan of his and hope he finishes his college career strongly.

On Rode's last game, you ignore that he was 25% after minute 6. Would he have rebounded in the second half? Perhaps. Did the coaches think Burkinshaw was more likely to play 50+% ball? Apparently.

Both these guys, Alex and Patrick, are young and hopefully resilient. And certainly capable of excellent play.

This is a lax discussion board, so certainly the topic makes sense. Folks are free to have opinions and others are free to disagree. I'm rooting for both of these guys to play well, whoever is in the net, and for the other to support the starter and be ready to step in if/when needed.

Ryan Darby was 15% for HOP against Maryland and Petro didn't pull. As you know MDLax, as a goalie, it can be rough to know you're getting the hook when going 40% in save percentage in one half.

I think you guys are bending over to find ways to excuse Lars' handling of this situation, all of his own making which could have been avoided simply by keeping Burkinsahw in as starter after the Princeton game. Further, I think you guys are willfully ignoring the elephant in the room ('what's that huge thing in the corner, let's ignore it and keep drinking our tea''?), which is Burkinshaw put his name into the transfer portal; you simply can not tell me that that move is not an issue for team culture. And supposing Lars keeps starting Burkinshaw, and Burkinshaw responds with stellar play, do both goalies transfer out at the season end because no one trusts Lars now?

Anyway, I've admittedly beat this to death, but primarily because you guys seem unwilling to face some sobering reality here. And I'll even say this: UVA has the talent to win the national championship (Dom got Conrad and Aitken I believe then Lars got Moore and Burkinshaw?; those are the 4 top players four years in a row)

I realize you're just trying to stir the pot of controversy at a rival school.

But, are you really pointing to Petro as a paragon of goalie management???

He's clearly deep in the soup, with Darby at less than 47% for the season...apparently he doesn't think he has anyone else capable of better.

An even more striking example, in the final game of 2015, Starsia left his good tender in for 37 minutes with zero saves, 16GA's. I think that was a disastrous mistake, though presumably Dom knew what his options were from his bench. However, the back-up gave up 3 more goals, but with 6 saves.

On it being "rough", absolutely it's "rough" to know that if you don't play well someone else will get a chance. That's the gig.

Listen, my son sat behind a very good goalie and terrific young man, #1 goalie recruit in his class, All-Ivy his junior season, despite multiple games where, in my judgment the coach should have, certainly could have, made a switch. In my son's junior year year, the senior goalie ahead of him was named a captain. Two AA level defensemen injured just before start of season, out the rest of the way. In the first game, in the hard snow, his team was losing and the tender was struggling. My son was put in late in 3rdQ and sparked a turnaround one goal win with 4 saves, 1GA, including a one on one save with 8 seconds left on Nick Mariano. Didn't get the start the next game, went in way too late versus Duke after game out of reach, another bad day for starter. Third game, he went in at half time, down 1 (starter had 3 saves with 6GA), turned it around with 8 saves for the win. Got the job, 54.1% on season, multiple times outplaying opposing tenders in one goal upsets. Concussion in 2nd to last game ended his season. Captain got the last start and had his career best day, upset of Yale. The captain is a terrific young man and was just as supportive of my son as my son was of him...very.

The following year, new coach made a decision to start the sophomore over my son based, presumably, on practice. My son had just one serious opportunity that season to contribute on-field, coming in after one disastrous quarter versus Brown, went 63%, including 8 saves on Molloy, no GA's and holding Brown to their lowest scoring of the year. But didn't get the job. And 3 days later, his team dropped a one goal game versus BU with another rough performance for the tender, 44%. The prior year my son had 18 saves against BU in a 9-8 win, 69%. Obviously, many thought the new coach was making a serious mistake, but my son was just one of the seniors demoted to second string by the new coach. Best midfielder, top shooting attackman, best pole, best FOGO, all moved down the depth chart, until injuries elevated the pole...and he had an AA season. Perplexing at best.

Another concussion ended my son's career a few weeks later. The sophomore was below 50% in more than half his starts, but 52.9% that year and 52.6% career and All-Ivy. Terrific young man. My son supported him enthusiastically and actively and they are good friends, as is my son with the two goalies in the years above him. My son finished with his career with 54.7%, the best of any tender for his team in this decade so far. But just one of a long string of near back to back All-Ivy tenders.

That's the goalie cohort dynamic you want. Supportive of each other, ready to step up when called upon. If you get lucky enough to have a 4 year starter who never gets injured, great, but that's far from typical.

But, yeah, it's frustrating for a kid who knows he can contribute to be sitting on the bench. Competitive guys want to contribute, however they can.

[runrussellrun]

Do you have a file where all these re-furbished stories are stored

Dare to speculate on the transfer portal.........and it even being lacrosse related. People transfer for many reasons. We always give the sage advice when choosing a college for that college, and not lacrosse. Now that it is transferring, that sage advice no longer applies? Would suggest leaving the topic alone, for now.

[HooDat]

RR is correct - we have no idea what the dynamics are, what conversations the coaches have had with Rode and Burkinshaw, or even the team for that matter.

Goalies have it weird. By the time you get to a program like UVA you are in one of two places: i) you have lived the life of biding your time while playing behind a great keeper who was ahead of you, or ii) you have always started and don;'t know how not to be the starter. If you have been (ii) above, I am thinking it is a big transition.

I don't know enough about either young man's high school careers to know if this is a new experience for them, but it is a growing one. Because guess what - in the real world you aren't always going to be "the man". In fact you are going to come out of college "the peon". How you deal with sitting when you are better than someone else, or getting usurped by someone younger than you, is going to reveal a lot about your character....

[Peter Brown]

I realize you're just trying to stir the pot of controversy at a rival school.

[hens62]

One input from a former goalie with no dog in this fight..

Every time Rode lets in a goal, especially a bad one, he looks directly to the sideline. Once you notice it, it will drive you crazy (and hes not the only one in D1 who does this). Go back and the watch the clips that are posted on youtube, you cant miss it. Seems like having a guy like Kip Turner, one of the greats, analyzing every shot could be a little too much for any young goalie eager to impress.

[reLAX]

RR is correct - we have no idea what the dynamics are, what conversations the coaches have had with Rode and Burkinshaw, or even the team for that matter.

Goalies have it weird. By the time you get to a program like UVA you are in one of two places: i) you have lived the life of biding your time while playing behind a great keeper who was ahead of you, or ii) you have always started and don;'t know how not to be the starter. If you have been (ii) above, I am thinking it is a big transition.

I don't know enough about either young man's high school careers to know if this is a new experience for them, but it is a growing one. Because guess what - in the real world you aren't always going to be "the man". In fact you are going to come out of college "the peon". How you deal with sitting when you are better than someone else, or getting usurped by someone younger than you, is going to reveal a lot about your character....

I agree with all you have said. This is also about setting a potentially dangerous precedent. If a player puts his name in the portal, during the season, and receives no apparent negative consequences (ie he still plays, and maybe even more) what would theoretically stop another player, who is unhappy w his playing time, to potentially do the same thing. Additionally, I do agree his timing would be frustrating to the other goalies who have waited their time, practiced faithfully, and were loyal to the program despite lack of minutes. I do not believe they are “fine” with it. And it does hurt Rode. Knowing he is trying and can and is replaced by someone who has made it Clear he has no intention of staying can definitely make him question his feeling of loyalty the coaches may or may not have towards him. We all know being a goalie is a tough position, requiring more mental fortitude than most other positions. How can this s ensuring possibly help him in that dept.

What happened to Ryder Garnsey when he left ND and then came back? I am wondering how much the team trusted him?

[reLAX]

RR is correct - we have no idea what the dynamics are, what conversations the coaches have had with Rode and Burkinshaw, or even the team for that matter.

Goalies have it weird. By the time you get to a program like UVA you are in one of two places: i) you have lived the life of biding your time while playing behind a great keeper who was ahead of you, or ii) you have always started and don;'t know how not to be the starter. If you have been (ii) above, I am thinking it is a big transition.

I don't know enough about either young man's high school careers to know if this is a new experience for them, but it is a growing one. Because guess what - in the real world you aren't always going to be "the man". In fact you are going to come out of college "the peon". How you deal with sitting when you are better than someone else, or getting usurped by someone younger than you, is going to reveal a lot about your character....

I agree with all you have said. This is also about setting a potentially dangerous precedent. If a player puts his name in the portal, during the season, and receives no apparent negative consequences (ie he still plays, and maybe even more) what would theoretically stop another player, who is unhappy w his playing time, to potentially do the same thing. Additionally, I do agree his timing would be frustrating to the other goalies who have waited their time, practiced faithfully, and were loyal to the program despite lack of minutes. I do not believe they are “fine” with it. And it does hurt Rode. Knowing he is trying and can and is replaced by someone who has made it Clear he has no intention of staying can definitely make him question his feeling of loyalty the coaches may or may not have towards him. We all know being a goalie is a tough position, requiring more mental fortitude than most other positions. How can this situation possibly help him in that dept?

What happened to Ryder Garnsey when he left ND and then came back? I am wondering how much the team trusted him?

[Peter Brown]

I don't know enough about either young man's high school careers to know if this is a new experience for them, but it is a growing one.

Both young men were considered to be the best high school goalies in the country the year of their graduation. Rode started at St. Paul's for 3 years. I think Burkinshaw started for Brunswick for 3 years too. Unanimous 1st team AA's, both.

This is the only position other than FOGO where it's simply difficult to impossible to have two superlative players on the same squad. It would take a Herculean sales pitch by a coach to sell the idea that sitting for multiple games, or alternatively getting hooked often, was best for the team; it doesn't mean the players don't want the best for the team, but goalies need to play not sit. Also, most goalies I have known in my life have a few screws loose...messing with their heads is generally not a great recipe for success.

I am a Loyola homer, so take this for what it's worth: I think Jacob Stover is hands down the best goalie in D1, not necessarily because of his stats (which are off the charts), but for his leadership and competitiveness. He has basically started every game since his freshman year (I think he did not start the first 3 games of his freshman year, but after that, there was no looking back).