"The Deep State" aka the American Intelligence Community

[old salt]

There was adequate predication to open Mid Year Exam -- they had hard evidence in the form of emails. It was a security breach that the FBI was duty bound to investigate. It had to be investigated.

There was not adequate predication to open Crossfire Hurricane -- the claimed hard evidence was the uncorroborated wine bar gossip of Popadop which could not be confirmed. The rest was confirmation bias of Clinton's Trump-Russia collusion disinformation op & the Steele dossier hyped by the Dem media. Trump is a pos --so what ? He had done business in Russia. He wanted better relations with Russia. That's not adequate justification to unleash the FBI on him & his campaign. It was an ends justify the means decision to open Crossfire Hurricane & to keep it going.

There's hard evidence for predication of an investigation of Hunter in the form of his tax filings, bank reports & his laptop.

That's what Barr & Durham found. All the rest is just a diversion & a smoke screen.

[a fan]

Tere was adequate predication to open Mid Year Exam -- they had hard evidence in the form of emails. It was a security breach that the FBI was duty bound to investigate. It had to be investigated.

Already said yes to that. Dozens of times now.

The part you run away from is: why didn't the FBI finish their report after the election if they're in cahoots with Hillary?

You don't have an answer. So that's out. No Deep State, sorry.

There was not adequate predication to open Crossfire Hurricane

Crossfire was opened July 31, 2016, just days after the RNC Convention.

Manafort was named Campaign Manager in May 2016. So that out, too. They HAD to investigate that, something you already agreed with, so we're done here. No Deep State. Move on.

There's hard evidence for predication of an investigation of Hunter in the form of his tax filings, bank reports & his laptop.

Evidence of what? What Felony did Hunter commit? You have NO IDEA, but keep pretending like you do....yet you're trying to tell ME that I have "confirmation bias"?

You don't get it: you TRUST that the FBI is being fair with Hunter, and ASSUME he committed crimes....even though you can't tell me what that crime was.

Which again, tells me you don't believe in a Deep State. You know perfectly well that the FBi is on the level, and shocker, they aren't perfect, and shocker, like all Americans, FBI agents have political opinions.

[old salt]

Tere was adequate predication to open Mid Year Exam -- they had hard evidence in the form of emails. It was a security breach that the FBI was duty bound to investigate. It had to be investigated.

Already said yes to that. Dozens of times now.

The part you run away from is: why didn't the FBI finish their report after the election if they're in cahoots with Hillary?

You don't have an answer. So that's out. No Deep State, sorry.
Comey declared the investigation complete when (speaking for the DoJ) he announced there was not going to be a prosecution.

There was not adequate predication to open Crossfire Hurricane

Crossfire was opened July 31, 2016, just days after the RNC Convention. So what ? Unrelated.

Manafort was named Campaign Manager in May 2016. So that out, too. They HAD to investigate that, something you already agreed with, so we're done here. No Deep State. Move on. The official predication for opening Crossfire Hurricane was the report by the Australians of Papadop's wine bar conversation. Manafort had nothing to do with the decision to open Crossfire Hurricane.

There's hard evidence for predication of an investigation of Hunter in the form of his tax filings, bank reports & his laptop.

Evidence of what? What Felony did Hunter commit? You have NO IDEA, but keep pretending like you do....yet you're trying to tell ME that I have "confirmation bias"?
It has been reported that Hunter is under FBI investigation. The FBI needs probable cause to open an investigation.
You don't get it: you TRUST that the FBI is being fair with Hunter, and ASSUME he committed crimes....even though you can't tell me what that crime was. We won't know unless & until he's indicted or pleads.

Which again, tells me you don't believe in a Deep State. You know perfectly well that the FBi is on the level, and shocker, they aren't perfect, and shocker, like all Americans, FBI agents have political opinions.
They were not on the level when launching Crossfire Hurricane without sufficient predication.

[a fan]

It has been reported that Hunter is under FBI investigation. The FBI needs probable cause to open an investigation

You just got done telling me that you think they launched Crossfire without probable cause.

So which is it? See the problem now? Your motivation is laid bare: you don't care that you don't know if the FBI is on the level, because Hunter is a Dem.





You're stuck. This is what I've been telling you for years: you trust the FBI just fine. Nothing has changed.

And more to the point: after all the finger pointing and certainty that you're right about your Deep State, neither you nor your Republican leaders have changed anything at the FBI, FISA, or any other organization that will keep what YOU are convinced is a problem from happening again.

I can give you several easy suggestions for change. Neither you nor your party have even suggested how to fix things, let alone actually done something. Duham's the last of SIX FULL investigations into your Deep State. It's all done. You're out of ammo.

So......what did you and your team do all the whining for 6+ years for? What was the point?

[old salt]

It has been reported that Hunter is under FBI investigation. The FBI needs probable cause to open an investigation

You just got done telling me that you think they launched Crossfire without probable cause.
No. Insufficient predication. That is different than probable cause. The DoD IG, Mueller & Dowd reports all concur -- the report of the Popadop gossip by the Aussies (prompted by the Russian release of hacked emails) was the predication for opening Crossfire Hurricane.

So which is it? See the problem now? Your motivation is laid bare: you don't care that you don't know if the FBI is on the level, because Hunter is a Dem.3 different cases. 3 different sets of facts.

You're stuck. This is what I've been telling you for years: you trust the FBI just fine. Nothing has changed.
You're stuck in your one size fits all logic, unable to distinguish between different situations & different facts & evidence.

And more to the point: after all the finger pointing and certainty that you're right about your Deep State, neither you nor your Republican leaders have changed anything at the FBI, FISA, or any other organization that will keep what YOU are convinced is a problem from happening again.
Durham reported that if the reforms Wray has initiated were in place at the time, Crossfire Hurricane would not have been launched.
FISA is still necessary to deal with foreign terrorist threats. It works as designed when not abused.

I can give you several easy suggestions for change. Neither you nor your party have even suggested how to fix things, let alone actually done something. Duham's the last of SIX FULL investigations into your Deep State. It's all done. You're out of ammo.

So......what did you and your team do all the whining for 6+ years for? What was the point?
See if any recommendations for FBI reform emerge as a result of Congressional oversight, now that (R)'s control the House.
Remember this, when you mock & criticize any reforms they recommend.

[a fan]

No. Insufficient predication. That is different than probable cause. The DoD IG, Mueller & Dowd reports all concur -- the report of the Popadop gossip by the Aussies (prompted by the Russian release of hacked emails) was the predication for opening Crossfire Hurricane.

Fine. You don't know EITHER if their is probably cause OR insufficient prediction for Hunter's case.

You. Don't. Care. This is why there will be no reform. You don't care. Neither do your Republican leaders. It's all a farce.

You're stuck in your one size fits all logic, unable to distinguish between different situations & different facts & evidence.

Your catch all when you're stuck.

BTW, if THIS is your game? That there is no uniformity for the FBI to call an investigation? In other words: you're telling me now that the FBI doesn't have written guidelines or protocols, and it's ENTIRELY up to the agents in charge to make the call as to whether or not they investigate. Now you're REALLY screwed.

Because now if you tell me that there are no rules for an FBI investigation, and "each case is different"...there's no backseat driving. It DOESN'T matter that you, or Durham, or Barr, or anyone else think there wasn't a reason to open a case.

My retort to you is: each case is different. One size all doesn't work, and you're just handing out opinions. Who cares what you or Durham thinks?

I certainly don't care.

Durham reported that if the reforms Wray has initiated were in place at the time, Crossfire Hurricane would not have been launched.

That's great. They still would have investigated on Manafort. And again when the Russian spy met the team in Trump Tower. And again when Flynn was fired for lying to Pence. And then the lying would have sent the FBI on the same wild goose chase.

Same results. And you'd STILL complain about it. So really, what's the point.

See if any recommendations for FBI reform emerge as a result of Congressional oversight, now that (R)'s control the House.
Remember this, when you mock & criticize any reforms they recommend

What are you trying to do? Apply one size fits all thinking for investigations? I thought each one was different, and therefore strict guidelines or rules are bad?

Moving goalposts, as usual.

Trump was running the FBI for four years. Could have changed FBI administrative rules at any time. But as usual, the FIRST thing you do is give R's a pass. Also controlled Congress and the Senate in first two years.

They did nothing.

Wait, that's not true: Trump (snicker) RENEWED the FISA program that you and TeamTinFoilHat claim was a HUGE part of this whole mess. No reform. And it will screw Americans again.

FISA, that you cited, is an EASY fix. A. shut it down. We have a Constitution. But we know your team doesn't think a whole lot of that document, unless it's about YOUR rights. Everyone else can get lost, right?

Or. B. put it in writing that you can't pull a FISA warrant if an American Citizen is involved. Boom. Done. Boy. That was hard. Took ten seconds to come up with that one. I need to sit down.

Why didn't your team do that? Too busy worrying about books and stuff?

[a fan]

See if any recommendations for FBI reform emerge as a result of Congressional oversight, now that (R)'s control the House.
Remember this, when you mock & criticize any reforms they recommend.

You'll never catch on, btw.

You don't understand that YOU are the "endgame". Same goes for your promised immigration reform.

The goal isn't to fix stuff. The goal is to keep you angry, and keep you voting for the R's.

THAT is why they haven't lifted a finger to reform FISA or the FBI, when they had PLENTY of time to do both under Trump.

And THAT is why it's 2023, and they are STILL talking about this stupid stuff, because you eat it up....we're at year 7, and counting.


You'll never get it. There are millions just like you, not noticing that Republicans aren't passing bills or fixing problems.

But your new POTUS DeSantis? Just passed another budget for Florida.

Pop Quiz. Best part? You already know the answer, and don't have to bother looking:

.....was the 2023 DeSantis budget the largest in Florida's history? Didn't notice, right?

[old salt]

You're stuck in your one size fits all logic, unable to distinguish between different situations & different facts & evidence.

Your catch all when you're stuck.

BTW, if THIS is your game? That there is no uniformity for the FBI to call an investigation? In other words: you're telling me now that the FBI doesn't have written guidelines or protocols, and it's ENTIRELY up to the agents in charge to make the call as to whether or not they investigate. Now you're REALLY screwed.They do. Durham used them.

Because now if you tell me that there are no rules for an FBI investigation, and "each case is different"...there's no backseat driving. It DOESN'T matter that you, or Durham, or Barr, or anyone else think there wasn't a reason to open a case.
Except I didn't tell you that.

My retort to you is: each case is different. One size all doesn't work,
I've been telling you that -- MYE was an investigation of a classified material breach. CH was supposedly an investigation of a political campaign colluding with a foreign county. The Hunter investigation is about suspected financial crimes.

and you're just handing out opinions. No. I'm citing the former FBI Director, a DoJ IG & 2 Special Prosecutors.
Who cares what you or Durham thinks?
I certainly don't care.Did you care about what Mueller thought ?

Durham reported that if the reforms Wray has initiated were in place at the time, CH would not have been launched.

That's great. They still would have investigated on Manafort. And again when the Russian spy met the team in Trump Tower. a meeting in their office with a Russian friend who brought a Fusion GPS client who'd dined woth Glenn Simpson the day before. If they had looked into that, they might have stumbled upon the Clinton campaign Russian collusion disinformation op. And again when Flynn was fired for lying to Pence. And then the lying would have sent the FBI on the same wild goose chase.That's the point. You don't send the FBI on a wild goose chase or appoint a SC for any of that. Flynn got fired because he made Pence look bad. There was nothing nefarious or criminal about his comms. McCabe had the intercept, he knew what was said. He just "sent a couple guys over" to entrap him & threaten him with the ancient Logan Act. You forgot the Alfa Bank server secret comm channel. All that trivia was hype AFTER CH was initiated. It proved nothing. Just more evidence of out of control confirmation bias where everything is interpreted as Russian collusion.
Same results. And you'd STILL complain about it. So really, what's the point.
Wrong. The FBI investigated Manafort in 2014 & again in Jan 2016. He was not cited as predication for initiating CH He was being investigated separately for financial crimes. Mueller pick up those investigations. They would have carried on without the need to investigate the entire Trump campaign & continue into the Trump Admin, long after Manafort left the campaign. Mueller did not report on what KK did with the campaign polling data that Manafort offered him, or cite any intel that the Russians used it. All speculation about events that took place after Xfire Hurricane was initiated.

See if any recommendations for FBI reform emerge as a result of Congressional oversight, now that (R)'s control the House.
Remember this, when you mock & criticize any reforms they recommend

What are you trying to do? Apply one size fits all thinking for investigations? I thought each one was different, and therefore strict guidelines or rules are bad?

Moving goalposts, as usual. you don't know what might be recommended, if anything. You're flailing.

Trump was running the FBI for four years. Could have changed FBI administrative rules at any time. But as usual, the FIRST thing you do is give R's a pass. Also controlled Congress and the Senate in first two years.

They did nothing. Durham said they did. Commended Wray for it & said XFire Hurricane would not thave happened had thry been in place.

Wait, that's not true: Trump (snicker) RENEWED the FISA program that you and TeamTinFoilHat claim was a HUGE part of this whole mess. No reform. And it will screw Americans again. People got fired &/or prosecuted for abusing the process. That's a deterrent in oitself.

FISA, that you cited, is an EASY fix. A. shut it down. We have a Constitution. But we know your team doesn't think a whole lot of that document, unless it's about YOUR rights. Everyone else can get lost, right?

Or. B. put it in writing that you can't pull a FISA warrant if an American Citizen is involved. Boom. Done. Boy. That was hard. Took ten seconds to come up with that one. I need to sit down. You don't underdstand how FISA works. That would render it useless.

Why didn't your team do that? Too busy worrying about books and stuff?
Becasuse they understand the threat of foreign terrorists & have seen the critical intel FISA yielded when not abused or used as a domestic political weapon.

[old salt]

See if any recommendations for FBI reform emerge as a result of Congressional oversight, now that (R)'s control the House.
Remember this, when you mock & criticize any reforms they recommend.

You'll never catch on, btw.

You don't understand that YOU are the "endgame". Same goes for your promised immigration reform.

The goal isn't to fix stuff. The goal is to keep you angry, and keep you voting for the R's.

THAT is why they haven't lifted a finger to reform FISA or the FBI, when they had PLENTY of time to do both under Trump.

The only reform needed is honest officials who leave their political views & confirmation bias at home.

[Farfromgeneva]

Somebody picked up the concept of confirmation bias recently. Must be used by some “news sources” as stalking point lately.

[Typical Lax Dad]

See if any recommendations for FBI reform emerge as a result of Congressional oversight, now that (R)'s control the House.
Remember this, when you mock & criticize any reforms they recommend.

You'll never catch on, btw.

You don't understand that YOU are the "endgame". Same goes for your promised immigration reform.

The goal isn't to fix stuff. The goal is to keep you angry, and keep you voting for the R's.

THAT is why they haven't lifted a finger to reform FISA or the FBI, when they had PLENTY of time to do both under Trump.

The only reform needed is honest officials who leave their political views & confirmation bias at home.

[a fan]

They do. Durham used them (the FBI Protocols).

Then we're back to one sized fits all logic.

I can do this ALL DAY, OS.

So we're back to: Did the FBI use this proper protocol to investigate Hunter?

You're stuck. Because you're caught not caring. You don't know.

So it's exactly, precisely like I said all those years ago: this is about R's and D's.

I've been telling you that -- MYE was an investigation of a classified material breach.

And I've been telling you: if your Deep State was "in on it", they would have reported on Hillary AFTER the election.

They didn't do that. I'm happy to repeat myself until hell freezes over.

Did you care about what Mueller thought ?

Another Republican operative who didn't look at Trump's finances? Nope. I was glad he put it to bed because that helped in the short term.

That's the point. You don't send the FBI on a wild goose chase or appoint a SC for any of that. Flynn got fired because he made Pence look bad. There was nothing nefarious or criminal about his comms.

You can't know that without investigating. You're telling me that the FBI couldn't investigate now. Sorry, you're wrong. And this taxpayer is happy they did that.

Wrong. The FBI investigated Manafort in 2014 & again in Jan 2016.

He lied about his work AFTER those dates, my man. They HAD to investigate that.

They would have carried on without the need to investigate the entire Trump campaign & continue into the Trump Admin, long after Manafort left the campaign. Mueller did not report on what KK did with the campaign polling data that Manafort offered him, or cite any intel that the Russians used it. \

That's YOUR OPINION. The rest of us taxpayers want the whole thing looked into.

They turned the Steele Dossier upside down, ffs. You're on here telling me that they shouldn't have done that. It's absurd.

you don't know what might be recommended, if anything. You're flailing.

OS....it's been SEVEN YEARS. And you're on here telling me "you just wait...they're gonna fix stuff".

You don't understand how FISA works. That would render it useless.

Oh, I understand. I was the one who told you it was Unconstitutional, and was built to be abused, remember? This was YEARS before it caught Page and others.

[a fan]

Somebody picked up the concept of confirmation bus recently. Must be used by some “news sources” as stalking point lately.

All his language and complaints are picked up from RightWing sources. He's unaware that he does this.

[a fan]

See if any recommendations for FBI reform emerge as a result of Congressional oversight, now that (R)'s control the House.
Remember this, when you mock & criticize any reforms they recommend.

You'll never catch on, btw.

You don't understand that YOU are the "endgame". Same goes for your promised immigration reform.

The goal isn't to fix stuff. The goal is to keep you angry, and keep you voting for the R's.

THAT is why they haven't lifted a finger to reform FISA or the FBI, when they had PLENTY of time to do both under Trump.

The only reform needed is honest officials who leave their political views & confirmation bias at home.

Oh, that's easy: only investigate Americans that don't have little R's by their names. Old Salt stops complaining immediately.

The FBI has been after Hunter for 6 years....twice as long as they took to investigate 9/11. Initiated by the Trump Admin to go after a political rival.

Any complaints from OS? Demands for an investigation into the FBI for running a Deep State. F no.


All of these fake complaints. For nothing. No reform. No changes. And the funniest part? Old Salt knows it......it was all about party.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Somebody picked up the concept of confirmation bus recently. Must be used by some “news sources” as stalking point lately.

All his language and complaints are picked up from RightWing sources. He's unaware that he does this.

Absolutely….he uses “woke” more than anyone I have ever met.

[Farfromgeneva]

Somebody picked up the concept of confirmation bus recently. Must be used by some “news sources” as stalking point lately.

All his language and complaints are picked up from RightWing sources. He's unaware that he does this.

I know it’s quite evident from time to time.

[PizzaSnake]

Pootie still trying to help Trump. Fcuking transparent. Put that in your FBI abuse of process pipe and smoke it, fools.

“Among the 500 people singled out for travel and financial restrictions on Friday were Americans seen as adversaries by Mr. Trump, including Letitia James, the state attorney general of New York who has investigated and sued him. Brad Raffensperger, the secretary of state of Georgia who rebuffed Mr. Trump’s pressure to reverse the outcome of the 2020 election, also made the list. And Lt. Michael Byrd, the Capitol Police officer who shot the pro-Trump rioter Ashli Babbitt on Jan. 6, 2021, was another notable name.

None of those three has anything to do with Russia policy and the only reason they would have come to Moscow’s attention is because Mr. Trump has publicly assailed them. The Russian Foreign Ministry offered no specific explanation for why they would be included on the list but did say that among its targets were “those in government and law enforcement agencies who are directly involved in the persecution of dissidents in the wake of the so-called storming of the Capitol.””

I’m tired of the weak-azs excuses you make for treason. Own your perfidy, cowards.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/21/worl ... trump.html

[Farfromgeneva]

Pootie still trying to help Trump. Fcuking transparent. Put that in your FBI abuse of process pipe and smoke it, fools.

“Among the 500 people singled out for travel and financial restrictions on Friday were Americans seen as adversaries by Mr. Trump, including Letitia James, the state attorney general of New York who has investigated and sued him. Brad Raffensperger, the secretary of state of Georgia who rebuffed Mr. Trump’s pressure to reverse the outcome of the 2020 election, also made the list. And Lt. Michael Byrd, the Capitol Police officer who shot the pro-Trump rioter Ashli Babbitt on Jan. 6, 2021, was another notable name.

None of those three has anything to do with Russia policy and the only reason they would have come to Moscow’s attention is because Mr. Trump has publicly assailed them. The Russian Foreign Ministry offered no specific explanation for why they would be included on the list but did say that among its targets were “those in government and law enforcement agencies who are directly involved in the persecution of dissidents in the wake of the so-called storming of the Capitol.””

I’m tired of the weak-azs excuses you make for treason. Own your perfidy, cowards.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/21/worl ... trump.html

For a second you had me!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pootie_Tang

[old salt]

They do. Durham used them (the FBI Protocols).

Then we're back to one sized fits all logic.

I can do this ALL DAY, OS.

So we're back to: Did the FBI use this proper protocol to investigate Hunter?

You're stuck. Because you're caught not caring. You don't know.

So it's exactly, precisely like I said all those years ago: this is about R's and D's.

I've been telling you that -- MYE was an investigation of a classified material breach.

And I've been telling you: if your Deep State was "in on it", they would have reported on Hillary AFTER the election.

They didn't do that. I'm happy to repeat myself until hell freezes over.

Did you care about what Mueller thought ?

Another Republican operative who didn't look at Trump's finances? Nope. I was glad he put it to bed because that helped in the short term.

That's the point. You don't send the FBI on a wild goose chase or appoint a SC for any of that. Flynn got fired because he made Pence look bad. There was nothing nefarious or criminal about his comms.

You can't know that without investigating. You're telling me that the FBI couldn't investigate now. Sorry, you're wrong. And this taxpayer is happy they did that.

Wrong. The FBI investigated Manafort in 2014 & again in Jan 2016.

He lied about his work AFTER those dates, my man. They HAD to investigate that.

They would have carried on without the need to investigate the entire Trump campaign & continue into the Trump Admin, long after Manafort left the campaign. Mueller did not report on what KK did with the campaign polling data that Manafort offered him, or cite any intel that the Russians used it. \

That's YOUR OPINION. The rest of us taxpayers want the whole thing looked into.

They turned the Steele Dossier upside down, ffs. You're on here telling me that they shouldn't have done that. It's absurd.

you don't know what might be recommended, if anything. You're flailing.

OS....it's been SEVEN YEARS. And you're on here telling me "you just wait...they're gonna fix stuff".

You don't understand how FISA works. That would render it useless.

Oh, I understand. I was the one who told you it was Unconstitutional, and was built to be abused, remember? This was YEARS before it caught Page and others.

TL/DNR. redundant.

[old salt]

Somebody picked up the concept of confirmation bus recently. Must be used by some “news sources” as stalking point lately.

All his language and complaints are picked up from RightWing sources. He's unaware that he does this.

Absolutely….he uses “woke” more than anyone I have ever met.

Somebody picked up the concept of confirmation bus recently. Must be used by some “news sources” as stalking point lately.

All his language and complaints are picked up from RightWing sources. He's unaware that he does this.

I know it’s quite evident from time to time.

Confirmation bias was a major finding of the Durham Report.
Ya know. The topic under discussion.
It's Durham giving the benefit of the doubt to the FBI.