NESCAC

[Bigdawg69]

Babson is best win. Kid will spangenburg comes in after being a multi year starter at holy cross. They have talent there in Wellesley.

[Nescac12001]

Bowdoin was top 15 because they started #6. They had a very mediocre year.

Bowdoin was ranked in the top fifteen all year because they deserved it. They went 11-5 in the best conference in the country, with four of those losses coming by an average of 3.25 goals against teams ranked #1, #5, and #8 (twice). The fifth loss was by 1 goal to Williams, who is also ranked and in the tournament.

They’re just not a top ten team, and they weren’t good enough to steal a game against a team that was. Simple as that. Would be really interesting to see how the committee ordered the teams that didn’t make the tourney.

Not saying it's right but Kenyon's argument could be that their best win is against Denison.

Bowdoin's best win is against WNEC?

Babson. The Beavers should be ranked.

Couldn’t agree more on this take. People have been quick to hate on the polar bears this year. Sure they didn’t have the same season as last year, but they haven’t had two seasons in a row like this since likely the 70s or 80s. Obviously Bill Mason has changed things around up there for the better and they still had a fantastic season in the best conference in the country. Got to see a couple of their losses. All tight games in which the polar bears showed flashes of domination, the issue was consistency and limiting small mistakes. When they were hot though, they looked just as dangerous as tufts at times. The slander isn’t deserved up there, those boys have turned a usual mediocre program around.

[RE6ULATOR]

OMG This is painful. Bowdoin is in the best conference in the country, yes. Bowdoin is markedly improved from their last few decades, yes. But they went 11-5 overall. They went 6-5 in the best conference in the country. They beat the perennial NESCAC bottom feeders and a Wesleyan team that seems to have an identity crisis. They are down from last year, and looking at the strength of the OOC schedule, coupled with the in conference results, they did not have a “fantastic season.”

They started the year ranked based on last year’s results (like everyone else) and remained ranked by playing a very winnable schedule outside of the top 4 NESCACs who happen to be all high ranking caliber, so no drop off on the ensuing loss’.

I don’t care about their travel hurdles. They know they’re in the “best conference in the country,” that seems to be a huge feather in the cap. Knowing that, they need to plan better OOC if they want to be a tournament team and not just middling in the best conference in the country.

[Bigdawg69]

OMG This is painful. Bowdoin is in the best conference in the country, yes. Bowdoin is markedly improved from their last few decades, yes. But they went 11-5 overall. They went 6-5 in the best conference in the country. They beat the perennial NESCAC bottom feeders and a Wesleyan team that seems to have an identity crisis. They are down from last year, and looking at the strength of the OOC schedule, coupled with the in conference results, they did not have a “fantastic season.”

They started the year ranked based on last year’s results (like everyone else) and remained ranked by playing a very winnable schedule outside of the top 4 NESCACs who happen to be all high ranking caliber, so no drop off on the ensuing loss’.

I don’t care about their travel hurdles. They know they’re in the “best conference in the country,” that seems to be a huge feather in the cap. Knowing that, they need to plan better OOC if they want to be a tournament team and not just middling in the best conference in the country.

You’re punishing them for OOC schedule, but teams like WNE Babson and endicott are no slouches. Are they NESCAC caliber, no. But who else in the New England region outside the CAC provide better comp than those 3? I don’t see them traveling from Maine to take on the Lynchburg’s, W&L’s and so forth…

[Laxdad457]

Babson is best win. Kid will spangenburg comes in after being a multi year starter at holy cross. They have talent there in Wellesley.

Spang is “him” as the kids like to say

[RE6ULATOR]

You’re punishing them for OOC schedule, but teams like WNE Babson and endicott are no slouches. Are they NESCAC caliber, no. But who else in the New England region outside the CAC provide better comp than those 3? I don’t see them traveling from Maine to take on the Lynchburg’s, W&L’s and so forth…

Take a closer look at their schedule before jumping to their defense. They played 5 OOC games. 3 at home, and 2 on a spring break trip in Tampa, FL.

Maybe they could visit ONE, just ONE, out of conference school before we start using geography as a crutch…

Not picking on the kids. They play the team in front of them. But this is on the schedule build, plain and simple.

[The12lov3]

OMG This is painful. Bowdoin is in the best conference in the country, yes. Bowdoin is markedly improved from their last few decades, yes. But they went 11-5 overall. They went 6-5 in the best conference in the country. They beat the perennial NESCAC bottom feeders and a Wesleyan team that seems to have an identity crisis. They are down from last year, and looking at the strength of the OOC schedule, coupled with the in conference results, they did not have a “fantastic season.”

They started the year ranked based on last year’s results (like everyone else) and remained ranked by playing a very winnable schedule outside of the top 4 NESCACs who happen to be all high ranking caliber, so no drop off on the ensuing loss’.

I don’t care about their travel hurdles. They know they’re in the “best conference in the country,” that seems to be a huge feather in the cap. Knowing that, they need to plan better OOC if they want to be a tournament team and not just middling in the best conference in the country.

You’re punishing them for OOC schedule, but teams like WNE Babson and endicott are no slouches. Are they NESCAC caliber, no. But who else in the New England region outside the CAC provide better comp than those 3? I don’t see them traveling from Maine to take on the Lynchburg’s, W&L’s and so forth…

No slouches agree but it is relative comparison. They played the weakest OOC compared to the other 4 teams. That is the issue here. If they played someone else besides Emerson say CNU and they won, then Williams might have been on the outside looking in. Bowdoin is a good team and I have said this that they would beat 60-70% of the field but because they play in the NESCAC, they have to distinguish themselves in that league and they failed to do that this year with there OCC compared to the other teams. They lost to the four teams who got in. You could argue that they should be in their instead of Williams but I think Williams on it best day is a better team then Bowdoin and Bowdoin lost to them head to head.

[Bigdawg69]

Babson is best win. Kid will spangenburg comes in after being a multi year starter at holy cross. They have talent there in Wellesley.

Spang is “him” as the kids like to say

He’s a stud. Now how did he end up at Babson? Dude was a freshman starter at HC!

[Bigdawg69]

OMG This is painful. Bowdoin is in the best conference in the country, yes. Bowdoin is markedly improved from their last few decades, yes. But they went 11-5 overall. They went 6-5 in the best conference in the country. They beat the perennial NESCAC bottom feeders and a Wesleyan team that seems to have an identity crisis. They are down from last year, and looking at the strength of the OOC schedule, coupled with the in conference results, they did not have a “fantastic season.”

They started the year ranked based on last year’s results (like everyone else) and remained ranked by playing a very winnable schedule outside of the top 4 NESCACs who happen to be all high ranking caliber, so no drop off on the ensuing loss’.

I don’t care about their travel hurdles. They know they’re in the “best conference in the country,” that seems to be a huge feather in the cap. Knowing that, they need to plan better OOC if they want to be a tournament team and not just middling in the best conference in the country.

You’re punishing them for OOC schedule, but teams like WNE Babson and endicott are no slouches. Are they NESCAC caliber, no. But who else in the New England region outside the CAC provide better comp than those 3? I don’t see them traveling from Maine to take on the Lynchburg’s, W&L’s and so forth…

No slouches agree but it is relative comparison. They played the weakest OOC compared to the other 4 teams. That is the issue here. If they played someone else besides Emerson say CNU and they won, then Williams might have been on the outside looking in. Bowdoin is a good team and I have said this that they would beat 60-70% of the field but because they play in the NESCAC, they have to distinguish themselves in that league and they failed to do that this year with there OCC compared to the other teams. They lost to the four teams who got in. You could argue that they should be in their instead of Williams but I think Williams on it best day is a better team then Bowdoin and Bowdoin lost to them head to head.

Agree with you there. No excuse for playing a program like Emerson. Would like to see them upgrade that game even if it is just like a Keene st. Nobody improves by playing Emerson and it hurts u come selection Sunday

[humpdaddy]

You’re punishing them for OOC schedule, but teams like WNE Babson and endicott are no slouches. Are they NESCAC caliber, no. But who else in the New England region outside the CAC provide better comp than those 3? I don’t see them traveling from Maine to take on the Lynchburg’s, W&L’s and so forth…

Take a closer look at their schedule before jumping to their defense. They played 5 OOC games. 3 at home, and 2 on a spring break trip in Tampa, FL.

Maybe they could visit ONE, just ONE, out of conference school before we start using geography as a crutch…

Not picking on the kids. They play the team in front of them. But this is on the schedule build, plain and simple.

Stop picking on the kids bro

[ah23]

You’re punishing them for OOC schedule, but teams like WNE Babson and endicott are no slouches. Are they NESCAC caliber, no. But who else in the New England region outside the CAC provide better comp than those 3?

Babson has definitely been NESCAC-caliber recently - not necessarily top 4/5, but not far off. This year they whooped Trinity, lost 1-goal games with Bowdoin and Williams, and were up Middlebury for much of that game before losing by 3. Endicott is a clear step below them but is at least decent.

Out of curiosity…what exactly makes a team like Cabrini a better/tougher OOC opponent than Babson beyond a) brand name b) being located outside of New England?

[beantown_lax879]

You’re punishing them for OOC schedule, but teams like WNE Babson and endicott are no slouches. Are they NESCAC caliber, no. But who else in the New England region outside the CAC provide better comp than those 3?

Babson has definitely been NESCAC-caliber recently - not necessarily top 4/5, but not far off. This year they whooped Trinity, lost 1-goal games with Bowdoin and Williams, and were up Middlebury for much of that game before losing by 3. Endicott is a clear step below them but is at least decent.

Out of curiosity…what exactly makes a team like Cabrini a better/tougher OOC opponent than Babson beyond a) brand name b) being located outside of New England?

That's a great question. I don't think Cabrini is a better OOC game this year, but I believe it's perceived as such simply because they won a national championship. Winning a national championship seems to "put respect on your name", as the kids would say, for way longer than it perhaps deserves. I'd argue that the opponents of Cortland, Stevenson, Nazareth, and maybe even Middlebury in some years past benefitted from the inflating effect of past championships.

[Bigdawg69]

You’re punishing them for OOC schedule, but teams like WNE Babson and endicott are no slouches. Are they NESCAC caliber, no. But who else in the New England region outside the CAC provide better comp than those 3?

Babson has definitely been NESCAC-caliber recently - not necessarily top 4/5, but not far off. This year they whooped Trinity, lost 1-goal games with Bowdoin and Williams, and were up Middlebury for much of that game before losing by 3. Endicott is a clear step below them but is at least decent.

Out of curiosity…what exactly makes a team like Cabrini a better/tougher OOC opponent than Babson beyond a) brand name b) being located outside of New England?

That's a great question. I don't think Cabrini is a better OOC game this year, but I believe it's perceived as such simply because they won a national championship. Winning a national championship seems to "put respect on your name", as the kids would say, for way longer than it perhaps deserves. I'd argue that the opponents of Cortland, Stevenson, Nazareth, and maybe even Middlebury in some years past benefitted from the inflating effect of past championships.

Agreed with this. It’s not necessarily a tougher team as much as the name recognition of Cabrini (because of 2019) carries more weight in the d3 lax world than a Babson would. Especially for non New England fans

[OinkWoof]

You’re punishing them for OOC schedule, but teams like WNE Babson and endicott are no slouches. Are they NESCAC caliber, no. But who else in the New England region outside the CAC provide better comp than those 3?

Babson has definitely been NESCAC-caliber recently - not necessarily top 4/5, but not far off. This year they whooped Trinity, lost 1-goal games with Bowdoin and Williams, and were up Middlebury for much of that game before losing by 3. Endicott is a clear step below them but is at least decent.

Out of curiosity…what exactly makes a team like Cabrini a better/tougher OOC opponent than Babson beyond a) brand name b) being located outside of New England?

That's a great question. I don't think Cabrini is a better OOC game this year, but I believe it's perceived as such simply because they won a national championship. Winning a national championship seems to "put respect on your name", as the kids would say, for way longer than it perhaps deserves. I'd argue that the opponents of Cortland, Stevenson, Nazareth, and maybe even Middlebury in some years past benefitted from the inflating effect of past championships.

The irony being Bowdoin played Nazareth this year. Overall I agree Bowdoin needed to win at least one more NESCAC game to not be on the outside, but find most of this discussion just people asserting preferences on strong schedules based on regional familiarity. Bowdoin is just a bit of a flash point because 1) they are decent so in many top 20, poop C type discussions, 2) they are in Maine and in NESCAC so highly regional.

[pcowlax]

You’re punishing them for OOC schedule, but teams like WNE Babson and endicott are no slouches. Are they NESCAC caliber, no. But who else in the New England region outside the CAC provide better comp than those 3?

Babson has definitely been NESCAC-caliber recently - not necessarily top 4/5, but not far off. This year they whooped Trinity, lost 1-goal games with Bowdoin and Williams, and were up Middlebury for much of that game before losing by 3. Endicott is a clear step below them but is at least decent.

Out of curiosity…what exactly makes a team like Cabrini a better/tougher OOC opponent than Babson beyond a) brand name b) being located outside of New England?

That's a great question. I don't think Cabrini is a better OOC game this year, but I believe it's perceived as such simply because they won a national championship. Winning a national championship seems to "put respect on your name", as the kids would say, for way longer than it perhaps deserves. I'd argue that the opponents of Cortland, Stevenson, Nazareth, and maybe even Middlebury in some years past benefitted from the inflating effect of past championships.

Agreed with this. It’s not necessarily a tougher team as much as the name recognition of Cabrini (because of 2019) carries more weight in the d3 lax world than a Babson would. Especially for non New England fans

Agree with all of this but it isn't an argument against Bowdoin's SOS but rather a commentary on the lack of broad knowledge of the D3 landscape that some people have. A team shouldn't be punished for playing a good opponent just because some people don't realize how good that team is. I fall victim to this myself. I can't help, from my younger days, to get at least a transient feeling of "ooooh" when I see a team beat Nazareth before realizing that is no longer an impressive win. Babson is quite good and definitely as good as many southern teams that get thrown around as strong OOC opponents. I agree with most that Bowdoin was just on the outside looking in, win just 1 of those close losses to the top tier in NESCAC and they are in ahead of Williams or Amherst. They didn't though so it isn't a travesty that they are out. They may need to change something with spring break scheduling but as far as feasible driving distance OOC opponents, Babson, Endicott and WNE really is almost as good as you can get. Who else is there in New England? MIT is pretty strong currently but they actually lost to Endicott this year. Bowdoin also plays some terrible Maine teams, as Colby and Bates often do, to support lax in the state.

[RE6ULATOR]

So now the NESCAC forum is pumping Babson to elevate Bowdoin?

…Out of curiosity…what exactly makes a team like Cabrini a better/tougher OOC opponent than Babson beyond a) brand name b) being located outside of New England?

On Babson’s own website they have it posted that they’ve been to 2 (two) NCAA tournaments. They can be playing their personal best year ever and still might not be looked at by many in the same light as a team that won a NCAA championship with in the last 3 tournaments.

…Winning a national championship seems to "put respect on your name", as the kids would say, for way longer than it perhaps deserves. I'd argue that the opponents of Cortland, Stevenson, Nazareth, and maybe even Middlebury in some years past benefitted from the inflating effect of past championships.

Cabrini won the National Championship 3 tournaments ago. There are several players from that team still on the roster. Christ, how short a memory should we have?

Agreed with this. It’s not necessarily a tougher team as much as the name recognition of Cabrini (because of 2019) carries more weight in the d3 lax world than a Babson would. Especially for non New England fans

Babson is having a good year. But before the regional rankings come out, how do we measure teams’ success throughout the season? Most look to polls, which they can disagree with and/or discuss. Cabrini was a fixture. Where was Babson?

…Bowdoin also plays some terrible Maine teams, as Colby and Bates often do, to support lax in the state.

You can’t really believe that…. Can you?

[creasecone66]

Western New England beat Lynchburg by 4 in the NCAAs last year. Why wouldn’t Bowdoin schedule them?? I’m not here to defend Bowdoin, I think you gotta beat some of those top tier teams in the best conference you belong to. Can’t just play them close and hope a 5th team makes it. Kind of like the dukes and notre dames of last year…maybe just beat Ohio state at home?

Objectively, Babson is a very good team and Cabrini has fallen off since beating Amherst on Memorial Day Sunday however many years ago. Given coaches typically schedule a home and home maybe a year out, you pay for it years later if you schedule a team that made the tournament, beat an ODAC stalwart, but for whatever reason declined. Strange that some folks on here don’t understand how that works so far in advance.

I don’t know if the Maine teams care about growing the game but potentially needing wins and getting game experience for the guys toward the end of the bench. It looks like bates has something funky at the end of the spring with a wide stretch of no games in April, but playing RIT a week (or two now?) into the season. Also, if Emerson says they’ll come to you on a Thursday, why not schedule them? Trinity played at their place so maybe in that instance Mason makes it clear they’ll only play in Brunswick. Looking at Emerson’s schedule, I have no idea how they got Trinity, bowdoin, Union, and Muhlenberg on the schedule. Maybe a recruiting tool to say “come be the next quint kessenich while the PLL takes off and help us beat a nescac team while you’re here”. Good for them going after some heavyweights.

On another OOC note, props to Amherst and bates for going the mustang classic route. Both traveling for a conference opponent, and then having a target on your back as a nescac team in town where there’s an inverse effect of putting your eggs prep-wise for the conference game, then the other opponent gets up for the Nescac matchup. Seems no-win except for the fans.

[pcowlax]

I don't believe that...I know that. Why do you think Bates played Southern Maine and Maine Maritime this year? And Colby St. Joseph's, Thomas and MM? They have dates to fill and they play local teams to help boost them. The coaches know each other, lacrosse in Maine is an insular world. Bowdoin has actually dropped such teams (University of New England) recently in an attempt to boost their schedule. The rest of your argument is straight from someone who pays no more attention to the sport than googling the tournament results. Judging teams by the "light" they are looked at based on their past results is exactly the lazy nonsense that anyone who follows sports rightly ridicules. You may look to the polls because you don't know the teams or watch the games, others actually have a good idea of the relative strength of teams, this year. Several players from 3 years ago still on Cabrini's roster! Oh my stars and garters! No wonder they ran through that murderous conference of theirs.

[pcowlax]

Western New England beat Lynchburg by 4 in the NCAAs last year. Why wouldn’t Bowdoin schedule them?? I’m not here to defend Bowdoin, I think you gotta beat some of those top tier teams in the best conference you belong to. Can’t just play them close and hope a 5th team makes it. Kind of like the dukes and notre dames of last year…maybe just beat Ohio state at home?

Objectively, Babson is a very good team and Cabrini has fallen off since beating Amherst on Memorial Day Sunday however many years ago. Given coaches typically schedule a home and home maybe a year out, you pay for it years later if you schedule a team that made the tournament, beat an ODAC stalwart, but for whatever reason declined. Strange that some folks on here don’t understand how that works so far in advance.

I don’t know if the Maine teams care about growing the game but potentially needing wins and getting game experience for the guys toward the end of the bench. It looks like bates has something funky at the end of the spring with a wide stretch of no games in April, but playing RIT a week (or two now?) into the season. Also, if Emerson says they’ll come to you on a Thursday, why not schedule them? Trinity played at their place so maybe in that instance Mason makes it clear they’ll only play in Brunswick. Looking at Emerson’s schedule, I have no idea how they got Trinity, bowdoin, Union, and Muhlenberg on the schedule. Maybe a recruiting tool to say “come be the next quint kessenich while the PLL takes off and help us beat a nescac team while you’re here”. Good for them going after some heavyweights.

On another OOC note, props to Amherst and bates for going the mustang classic route. Both traveling for a conference opponent, and then having a target on your back as a nescac team in town where there’s an inverse effect of putting your eggs prep-wise for the conference game, then the other opponent gets up for the Nescac matchup. Seems no-win except for the fans.

Bowdoin beat Western New England 19-7 THIS YEAR! I am sure many of the other NESACC teams would love to play in the Mustang, they need to be invited.

[Laxdad457]

I don't believe that...I know that. Why do you think Bates played Southern Maine and Maine Maritime this year? And Colby St. Joseph's, Thomas and MM? They have dates to fill and they play local teams to help boost them. The coaches know each other, lacrosse in Maine is an insular world. Bowdoin has actually dropped such teams (University of New England) recently in an attempt to boost their schedule. The rest of your argument is straight from someone who pays no more attention to the sport than googling the tournament results. Judging teams by the "light" they are looked at based on their past results is exactly the lazy nonsense that anyone who follows sports rightly ridicules. You may look to the polls because you don't know the teams or watch the games, others actually have a good idea of the relative strength of teams, this year. Several players from 3 years ago still on Cabrini's roster! Oh my stars and garters! No wonder they ran through that murderous conference of theirs.

Maine Maritime is in the Tourney this year Bates and Colby should be honored to play them.