Sensible Gun Safety

[MDlaxfan76]

Not so sure much of any change is going to come from a ballot box. The newly elected is going to write more laws?
Our love affair with guns and staunch belief that everyone (pretty much) has the right to have one (or arsenal of)
isn't going to change at the ballot box. Went to a gun show a couple of years back, was just a tag along with my buddy
and his son who wanted to buy an AR15. He walked out with one, I was blown away by how easy it was. Doesn't have a
need in the world for that gun (or the several others that he has) but don't dare tell anyone like that they can't have one.
Until our attitude about guns and everyone's right to have one changes aint much of anything going to change. Culture.

... that can all change with the ballot box. Banning AR15 or it along with other "assault rifles" is possible. The supreme court already allows it. Tighten background checks, longer waiting periods, raise age for purchase and use, banning certain ammunition types, sale of components which increase firing speed, magazine capacity limits, etc., etc., applying same sane rules to gun shows or outlaw them. It only takes the will to do and punish those who stand in the way. There is an overwhelming majority that want these kinds of changes now. It is going to happen, it is only a question of how many more people will die before we get serious in this country.

If it were Muslims doing all this everyone including the white supremacists would be screaming for these changes.

So will the changes at the ballot box effect the ever increasing number of people intent on commiting murder? The willingness of so many people that want to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible should be equally disturbing to everyone. The maniac in Texas proved you can kill a lot of people with a car.

First, I don't think it's been determined yet that the SUV driver was acting intentionally, though that's very possible. Such acts have indeed been committed by terrorists, typically in places with few guns. But total such deaths in those places from these attacks are far, far less than here, largely because there are fewer people with these sorts of weapons.

You also see more knife attacks. But fewer deaths from mass attacks.

The substitution isn't 1:1.

It is also entirely possible that military style weapons being used in so much of our mass media entertainment, gaming, movies, etc have glamorized this usage in ways that driving a car into a crowd doesn't accomplish...nor do you typically get shot by the police when doing so, which is part of what these mass shooters appear to expect going in. Suicide by cop.

But it won't eliminate the hate nor the suicidal.

For the lawyers here: when and how are such findings made?

“First, I don't think it's been determined yet that the SUV driver was acting intentionally”

I would hope within a specific, documented and transparent process. And no, having to wrest the data from control via FOIA doesn’t count as transparent.

I'm not a lawyer, but as of this AM, last I checked, they hadn't even released the name of the driver much less the motive. Very early in the assessment of what the heck happened and why.

If you asked me to place a bet, though, it's be that this was intentional because of the witnesses said seemed to be the case, and perhaps a motive of some ideological issue, but this seems to me a 'hey, let's wait one heartbeat at least' before declaring we know.

EDIT: driver name and a little more about him has now been released:https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/08/us/brown ... index.html

Could be intoxication. History.
If so, my 'bet' would have been wrong.

[ggait]

The maniac in Texas proved you can kill a lot of people with a car.

This is such stupid lame dumb ass bull shirt. GMAFB.

You can certainly kill people with cars, knifes, baseball bats and many other things.

But if you want to kill a bunch of people in a short amount of time, you go AR 15. The range, accuracy, firing speed and bullet damage make it the obvious choice.

Any idiot with no training can mow down many folks in a minute or two with an AR 15 rifle.

And notice in the AR 15 attacks how high the kill rate always is? The shooters aren't trained marksmen carefully placing their shots in the optimal kill zone. Given the high damage caused by the AR 15 rounds, a high percentage of the wounds in all locations turn into fatal bleed outs.

Captain Obvious knows that just doesn't happen with a hand gun or a shot gun. Duh.

[PizzaSnake]

Not so sure much of any change is going to come from a ballot box. The newly elected is going to write more laws?
Our love affair with guns and staunch belief that everyone (pretty much) has the right to have one (or arsenal of)
isn't going to change at the ballot box. Went to a gun show a couple of years back, was just a tag along with my buddy
and his son who wanted to buy an AR15. He walked out with one, I was blown away by how easy it was. Doesn't have a
need in the world for that gun (or the several others that he has) but don't dare tell anyone like that they can't have one.
Until our attitude about guns and everyone's right to have one changes aint much of anything going to change. Culture.

... that can all change with the ballot box. Banning AR15 or it along with other "assault rifles" is possible. The supreme court already allows it. Tighten background checks, longer waiting periods, raise age for purchase and use, banning certain ammunition types, sale of components which increase firing speed, magazine capacity limits, etc., etc., applying same sane rules to gun shows or outlaw them. It only takes the will to do and punish those who stand in the way. There is an overwhelming majority that want these kinds of changes now. It is going to happen, it is only a question of how many more people will die before we get serious in this country.

If it were Muslims doing all this everyone including the white supremacists would be screaming for these changes.

So will the changes at the ballot box effect the ever increasing number of people intent on commiting murder? The willingness of so many people that want to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible should be equally disturbing to everyone. The maniac in Texas proved you can kill a lot of people with a car.

First, I don't think it's been determined yet that the SUV driver was acting intentionally, though that's very possible. Such acts have indeed been committed by terrorists, typically in places with few guns. But total such deaths in those places from these attacks are far, far less than here, largely because there are fewer people with these sorts of weapons.

You also see more knife attacks. But fewer deaths from mass attacks.

The substitution isn't 1:1.

It is also entirely possible that military style weapons being used in so much of our mass media entertainment, gaming, movies, etc have glamorized this usage in ways that driving a car into a crowd doesn't accomplish...nor do you typically get shot by the police when doing so, which is part of what these mass shooters appear to expect going in. Suicide by cop.

But it won't eliminate the hate nor the suicidal.

For the lawyers here: when and how are such findings made?

“First, I don't think it's been determined yet that the SUV driver was acting intentionally”

I would hope within a specific, documented and transparent process. And no, having to wrest the data from control via FOIA doesn’t count as transparent.

I'm not a lawyer, but as of this AM, last I checked, they hadn't even released the name of the driver much less the motive. Very early in the assessment of what the heck happened and why.

If you asked me to place a bet, though, it's be that this was intentional because of the witnesses said seemed to be the case, and perhaps a motive of some ideological issue, but this seems to me a 'hey, let's wait one heartbeat at least' before declaring we know.

EDIT: driver name and a little more about him has now been released:https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/08/us/brown ... index.html

Could be intoxication. History.
If so, my 'bet' would have been wrong.

Granted eyewitness testimony is fraught with issues, there is this reporting:

“Witnesses have also described seeing the driver ignore a red light before driving up on a curb and running over people at the bus stop, according to Sandoval.”

So, it appears that the act of running the red light was intentional. If he was intoxicated, did he imbibe? If so, acted intentionally. Every time we operate machinery, we demonstrate intent. Now, are there mitigating circumstances: seizure, stroke, etc? Who knows.

Now, did he intend to kill that many people as a result of his intentional actions? Guess the prosecutors will have to see if they can prove that, and charge with murder of some variety. However, the manslaughter charge is assured.

[youthathletics]

Not so sure much of any change is going to come from a ballot box. The newly elected is going to write more laws?
Our love affair with guns and staunch belief that everyone (pretty much) has the right to have one (or arsenal of)
isn't going to change at the ballot box. Went to a gun show a couple of years back, was just a tag along with my buddy
and his son who wanted to buy an AR15. He walked out with one, I was blown away by how easy it was. Doesn't have a
need in the world for that gun (or the several others that he has) but don't dare tell anyone like that they can't have one.
Until our attitude about guns and everyone's right to have one changes aint much of anything going to change. Culture.

... that can all change with the ballot box. Banning AR15 or it along with other "assault rifles" is possible. The supreme court already allows it. Tighten background checks, longer waiting periods, raise age for purchase and use, banning certain ammunition types, sale of components which increase firing speed, magazine capacity limits, etc., etc., applying same sane rules to gun shows or outlaw them. It only takes the will to do and punish those who stand in the way. There is an overwhelming majority that want these kinds of changes now. It is going to happen, it is only a question of how many more people will die before we get serious in this country.

If it were Muslims doing all this everyone including the white supremacists would be screaming for these changes.

So will the changes at the ballot box effect the ever increasing number of people intent on commiting murder? The willingness of so many people that want to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible should be equally disturbing to everyone. The maniac in Texas proved you can kill a lot of people with a car.

First, I don't think it's been determined yet that the SUV driver was acting intentionally, though that's very possible. Such acts have indeed been committed by terrorists, typically in places with few guns. But total such deaths in those places from these attacks are far, far less than here, largely because there are fewer people with these sorts of weapons.

You also see more knife attacks. But fewer deaths from mass attacks.

The substitution isn't 1:1.

It is also entirely possible that military style weapons being used in so much of our mass media entertainment, gaming, movies, etc have glamorized this usage in ways that driving a car into a crowd doesn't accomplish...nor do you typically get shot by the police when doing so, which is part of what these mass shooters appear to expect going in. Suicide by cop.

But it won't eliminate the hate nor the suicidal.

For the lawyers here: when and how are such findings made?

“First, I don't think it's been determined yet that the SUV driver was acting intentionally”

I would hope within a specific, documented and transparent process. And no, having to wrest the data from control via FOIA doesn’t count as transparent.

I'm not a lawyer, but as of this AM, last I checked, they hadn't even released the name of the driver much less the motive. Very early in the assessment of what the heck happened and why.

If you asked me to place a bet, though, it's be that this was intentional because of the witnesses said seemed to be the case, and perhaps a motive of some ideological issue, but this seems to me a 'hey, let's wait one heartbeat at least' before declaring we know.

EDIT: driver name and a little more about him has now been released:https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/08/us/brown ... index.html

Could be intoxication. History.
If so, my 'bet' would have been wrong.

Granted eyewitness testimony is fraught with issues, there is this reporting:

“Witnesses have also described seeing the driver ignore a red light before driving up on a curb and running over people at the bus stop, according to Sandoval.”

So, it appears that the act of running the red light was intentional. If he was intoxicated, did he imbibe? If so, acted intentionally. Every time we operate machinery, we demonstrate intent. Now, are there mitigating circumstances: seizure, stroke, etc? Who knows.

Now, did he intend to kill that many people as a result of his intentional actions? Guess the prosecutors will have to see if they can prove that, and charge with murder of some variety. However, the manslaughter charge is assured.

Quite sure they know who he is and have images of his tattoos...allegedly based on his tats, he is part of Tango Blast, as was the other gentleman in a recent shooting. Mexican Gangs on a mission.

[PizzaSnake]

The maniac in Texas proved you can kill a lot of people with a car.

This is such stupid lame dumb ass bull shirt. GMAFB.

You can certainly kill people with cars, knifes, baseball bats and many other things.

But if you want to kill a bunch of people in a short amount of time, you go AR 15. The range, accuracy, firing speed and bullet damage make it the obvious choice.

Any idiot with no training can mow down many folks in a minute or two with an AR 15 rifle.

And notice in the AR 15 attacks how high the kill rate always is? The shooters aren't trained marksmen carefully placing their shots in the optimal kill zone. Given the high damage caused by the AR 15 rounds, a high percentage of the wounds turn into fatal bleed outs.

Captain Obvious knows that just doesn't happen with a hand gun or a shot gun. Duh.

Fortunately, semi-auto 10 gauge shotguns chambering a 3” shell in a triple aught is not an object of fetishization of the ammosexuals. Now that would be truly horrific. There’s a reason shotguns were the subject of some controversy in WW1.

https://www.historynet.com/the-1918-shotgun-protest/

I guess no one wanted a beating from a 10 gauge, or perhaps the supply chain for a 12 gauge was superior.

https://chestercountyarmory.com/product ... ve-device/

Interestingly, this is not readily available except through a highly regulated licensing process, but AR-15s are. Why is one acceptable, and the other not?

[cradleandshoot]

The maniac in Texas proved you can kill a lot of people with a car.

This is such stupid lame dumb ass bull shirt. GMAFB.

You can certainly kill people with cars, knifes, baseball bats and many other things.

But if you want to kill a bunch of people in a short amount of time, you go AR 15. The range, accuracy, firing speed and bullet damage make it the obvious choice.

Any idiot with no training can mow down many folks in a minute or two with an AR 15 rifle.

And notice in the AR 15 attacks how high the kill rate always is? The shooters aren't trained marksmen carefully placing their shots in the optimal kill zone. Given the high damage caused by the AR 15 rounds, a high percentage of the wounds in all locations turn into fatal bleed outs.

Captain Obvious knows that just doesn't happen with a hand gun or a shot gun. Duh.

It ain't as stupid as you think counselor. Your overthinking what I said. People intent on killing a lot of people will realize ramming your pick up truck at 60 mph will do 2 things.. kill a lot of people and gain you the publicity you do desperately desire. It is not an issue of comparing an AR-15 round to an F150. If you could think out of the box for a change counselor you would understand this. If you can't purchase the AR-15 of your dreams there are other options for killing a lot of people almost in matter of seconds. Is your intention that if you remove AR-15s from the equation all future mass murderers will just say " oh snap" and get back to their mundane lives? Did you notice the mall shootings and SUV murders both received the same media attention? Your showing a lack of understanding the carnage that a truck going 60 mph full bore into a crowd of people will do. What happened in Brownsville didn't even open your eyes one iota. Stay focused on those AR15s bumpkin.

[ggait]

CS.

What the heck is wrong with you?

Explain to me how you’re gonna get an suv inside a theater, school, nightclub, church, synagogue, bank office building, shopping mall.

Read up on the Chou family and then tell me about what an awesome woody you get hugging your beloved assault rifle.

Father, mother and three year old boy all dead. Six year old boy injured but survived. With his entire family now gone.

Fork you.

[cradleandshoot]

CS.

What the heck is wrong with you?

Explain to me how you’re gonna get an suv inside a bank, theater, school, nightclub, church, synagogue, bank office building, shopping mall.

Read up on the Chou family and then tell me about what an awesome woody you get hugging your beloved assault rifle.

Father, mother and three year old boy all dead. Six year old boy injured but survived. With his entire family now gone.

Fork you.

Explain to me how you stop that same F150 from barreling down the road on that July 4th at 60 mph into the crowd waiting to see the parade. Do you have a vague grasp when it comes to physics?? Calculate the expected results of a 5000 plus pounds vehicle crashing into a mass of 100s of people at a speed of 60 mph. I love you too!

[ggait]

Every parade route, street fare, farmers market these days has concrete barriers or similar obstructions these days moron.

Unfortunate but necessary. But how about we get rid of the forking assault weapons and then we’ll deal with the rest as needed. If Reagan and W Bush thought the awb was ok, seems like we should bring it back.

Are you fondling your assault rifle right now? The Chou family wants to know.

[OCanada]

The maniac in Texas proved you can kill a lot of people with a car.

This is such stupid lame dumb ass bull shirt. GMAFB.

You can certainly kill people with cars, knifes, baseball bats and many other things.

But if you want to kill a bunch of people in a short amount of time, you go AR 15. The range, accuracy, firing speed and bullet damage make it the obvious choice.

Any idiot with no training can mow down many folks in a minute or two with an AR 15 rifle.

And notice in the AR 15 attacks how high the kill rate always is? The shooters aren't trained marksmen carefully placing their shots in the optimal kill zone. Given the high damage caused by the AR 15 rounds, a high percentage of the wounds in all locations turn into fatal bleed outs.

Captain Obvious knows that just doesn't happen with a hand gun or a shot gun. Duh.

It ain't as stupid as you think counselor. Your overthinking what I said. People intent on killing a lot of people will realize ramming your pick up truck at 60 mph will do 2 things.. kill a lot of people and gain you the publicity you do desperately desire. It is not an issue of comparing an AR-15 round to an F150. If you could think out of the box for a change counselor you would understand this. If you can't purchase the AR-15 of your dreams there are other options for killing a lot of people almost in matter of seconds. Is your intention that if you remove AR-15s from the equation all future mass murderers will just say " oh snap" and get back to their mundane lives? Did you notice the mall shootings and SUV murders both received the same media attention? Your showing a lack of understanding the carnage that a truck going 60 mph full bore into a crowd of people will do. What happened in Brownsville didn't even open your eyes one iota. Stay focused on those AR15s bumpkin.

Seems you need to spend some time with the data rather than creating non sequiturs

[Typical Lax Dad]

CS.

What the heck is wrong with you?

Explain to me how you’re gonna get an suv inside a bank, theater, school, nightclub, church, synagogue, bank office building, shopping mall.

Read up on the Chou family and then tell me about what an awesome woody you get hugging your beloved assault rifle.

Father, mother and three year old boy all dead. Six year old boy injured but survived. With his entire family now gone.

Fork you.

Explain to me how you stop that same F150 from barreling down the road on that July 4th at 60 mph into the crowd waiting to see the parade. Do you have a vague grasp when it comes to physics?? Calculate the expected results of a 5000 plus pounds vehicle crashing into a mass of 100s of people at a speed of 60 mph. I love you too!

[cradleandshoot]

The maniac in Texas proved you can kill a lot of people with a car.

This is such stupid lame dumb ass bull shirt. GMAFB.

You can certainly kill people with cars, knifes, baseball bats and many other things.

But if you want to kill a bunch of people in a short amount of time, you go AR 15. The range, accuracy, firing speed and bullet damage make it the obvious choice.

Any idiot with no training can mow down many folks in a minute or two with an AR 15 rifle.

And notice in the AR 15 attacks how high the kill rate always is? The shooters aren't trained marksmen carefully placing their shots in the optimal kill zone. Given the high damage caused by the AR 15 rounds, a high percentage of the wounds in all locations turn into fatal bleed outs.

Captain Obvious knows that just doesn't happen with a hand gun or a shot gun. Duh.

It ain't as stupid as you think counselor. Your overthinking what I said. People intent on killing a lot of people will realize ramming your pick up truck at 60 mph will do 2 things.. kill a lot of people and gain you the publicity you do desperately desire. It is not an issue of comparing an AR-15 round to an F150. If you could think out of the box for a change counselor you would understand this. If you can't purchase the AR-15 of your dreams there are other options for killing a lot of people almost in matter of seconds. Is your intention that if you remove AR-15s from the equation all future mass murderers will just say " oh snap" and get back to their mundane lives? Did you notice the mall shootings and SUV murders both received the same media attention? Your showing a lack of understanding the carnage that a truck going 60 mph full bore into a crowd of people will do. What happened in Brownsville didn't even open your eyes one iota. Stay focused on those AR15s bumpkin.

Seems you need to spend some time with the data rather than creating non sequiturs

Your overthinking it as well. What data should I have read??? Your using one dimensional thinking. FTR I'm book marking these comments for future reference. Should come in handy down the road.

[NattyBohChamps04]

Man Shot 14-Year-Old in Back of Head as She Was Playing Hide-and-Seek

Never know, they could have been antifa...

[MDlaxfan76]

sheesh, cradle, obviously not all killings, including mass killings, will be stopped with removal of AR-15's.

But the "data" indicates, whether looking at here in the US, or looking globally, that much less access to assault style weapons and high capacity magazines would reduce the number of such mass killings dramatically.

Not all. But many to most.

Yes, some nut jobs will find some other ways...but fewer deaths, and much less fear in places where one should be completely unfearful of such.

And, unless driving a truck into a crowd gets glamorized the way using assault weapons have, the attraction to such should be much less as well.

No one is saying all mass attacks will be stopped by reduction or elimination of access to assault weapons, but let's deal with addressing what the most obvious issues are first, then deal with others in turn.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Man Shot 14-Year-Old in Back of Head as She Was Playing Hide-and-Seek

Never know, they could have been antifa...

Kids should have been armed.

[SCLaxAttack]

All these mass murderers drive to the location of their crime, only to park their vehicles to kill their victims using guns.

Why not just use the vehicle to commit the crime?

[cradleandshoot]

Every parade route, street fare, farmers market these days has concrete barriers or similar obstructions these days moron.

Unfortunate but necessary. But how about we get rid of the forking assault weapons and then we’ll deal with the rest as needed. If Reagan and W Bush thought the awb was ok, seems like we should bring it back.

Are you fondling your assault rifle right now? The Chou family wants to know.

But how about we get rid of the forking assault weapons and then we’ll deal with the rest as needed.

How do you accomplish that objective?

In the meantime while your cussing me out ...dig this baby.


https://www.whec.com/top-news/rochester ... 20students.

this was just a dumb ass car thief having fun counselor. TRY THINKING OUT OF THE BOX FOR ONCE if your even capable of doing so.

one more just for fun.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ca ... r-AA1aNuyg

[cradleandshoot]

Every parade route, street fare, farmers market these days has concrete barriers or similar obstructions these days moron.

Unfortunate but necessary. But how about we get rid of the forking assault weapons and then we’ll deal with the rest as needed. If Reagan and W Bush thought the awb was ok, seems like we should bring it back.

Are you fondling your assault rifle right now? The Chou family wants to know.

I would have to fondling my 410 gauge shotgun that i purchased legally to include an FBI required background check.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ca ... r-AA1aNuyg. got another one for you bumpkin coming uphttps://www.rochesterfirst.com/rochester/suv-dr ... stigating/

[cradleandshoot]

Every parade route, street fare, farmers market these days has concrete barriers or similar obstructions these days moron.

Unfortunate but necessary. But how about we get rid of the forking assault weapons and then we’ll deal with the rest as needed. If Reagan and W Bush thought the awb was ok, seems like we should bring it back.

Are you fondling your assault rifle right now? The Chou family wants to know.

I would have to fondling my 410 gauge shotgun that i purchased legally to include an FBI required background check.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ca ... r-AA1aNuyg. got another one for you bumpkin coming uphttps://www.rochesterfirst.com/rochester/suv-dr ... stigating/

[cradleandshoot]

sheesh, cradle, obviously not all killings, including mass killings, will be stopped with removal of AR-15's.

But the "data" indicates, whether looking at here in the US, or looking globally, that much less access to assault style weapons and high capacity magazines would reduce the number of such mass killings dramatically.

Not all. But many to most.

Yes, some nut jobs will find some other ways...but fewer deaths, and much less fear in places where one should be completely unfearful of such.

And, unless driving a truck into a crowd gets glamorized the way using assault weapons have, the attraction to such should be much less as well.

No one is saying all mass attacks will be stopped by reduction or elimination of access to assault weapons, but let's deal with addressing what the most obvious issues are first, then deal with others in turn.

No MD, not some nut jobs. IMO if you are successful at removing one tool from the homicidal murderers toolbox there are others available. There is a chance i have watched that TV show criminal minds for way too long. While it is just a TV show it is a fascinating deep dive into how people kill and why people kill. Your not getting my point which is par for the course on this forum. My point is very simple, if you cant kill people one way there is always another option available. Have you ever read any of the different variants of the anarchists cookbook? The magic solution being proposed here is to ban assault type weapons. Since that ain't gonna happen in our lifetime there are a whole lotta back up options out there that are available. I pointed out the potential lethality of an attack on a large group of people gathered together for a public parade or event by a truck traveling at high speed. The folks on this forum think I'm advocating on behalf of assault weapons. I'm pointing out to you folks that if someone is that dedicated to killing alot of people... there are more dangerous and lethal tools available in their tool box than you are aware of. If your that concerned do a google search and decide for yourself.