Sensible Gun Safety

[Typical Lax Dad]

Just heard from my sister. She missed being at that mall today due to pure serendipity….she and her husband go there often. Mom has been there, siblings have been there, nieces, nephews and cousins have been there. Now she and her husband will start carrying. She will die of a heart attack before she is able to get a shot off…. It would be that stressful. She lives in Frisco. 2023…

I've often wondered why "carrying" is the response to these events. Wouldn't wearing body armor and a combat helmet be more logical? As you say, most people wouldn't get a shot off in a crisis, and will actually increase the overall threat level to other bystanders. Friend of mine told me he was taking his 9mm camping. I asked him why. He said, "bears." I remarked that he was more likely (much) to shoot himself in the foot if he were to carry the weapon in the ready position (in his hand with the safety off). Even then I told him he wouldn't get a shot off at a bear if it popped out of the bushes. People watch too much danmed TV. Life happens fast -- really fast. Get over your big, bad selves.

-- Mentat out.

Yep. Armor is better. What good is carrying if you don’t see it coming. The gun issue in this country is completely insane. I am sure someone will compare our country to El Salvador to show some places are worse off.

[Typical Lax Dad]

[ggait]

I can handle things. I'm smaaahhhht. Not like everyone says. Like dumb. I'm smahhhht!

Can't tell you how many times that line runs through my head as people talk to me.

Pretty much a daily occurrence.

[ggait]

The gun issue in this country is completely insane.

But it really isn't about new gun laws.

The reason why we have lax guns laws is because of our underlying culture/values. And that culture (at least for a significant minority of our country) is primarily the creation of the powerful and toxic alliance of gun makers, NRA, GOP and right wing media. Which culture only came into being during the past few decades.

Remember that Reagan was a victim of gun violence in the 1980s. The Gipper supported the Brady Bill and also the AWB. Recall that George W. Bush in 2000 campaigned very explicitly on extending Bill Clinton's 1994 AWB. Remember how truly shocked everyone was by Columbine -- that was in 1999.

Since then, the alliance has promoted a weird paranoid culture where there's always great danger, patriots have to throw off the shackles of tyrrany, you always gotta stand your ground, and guns are the way to deal with your minor dis-respects and grievances. And the small-ness of your penis.

FYI, violent crime is at historic lows. And property crimes are again declining after going up during Covid.

They have cowboys, wide open spaces, freedom, video games, crazy people and surprisingly large numbers of guns in places like Canada, Australia and NZ. What those places don't have is our toxic bizzare culture. Which culture requires our children and police officers to regularly face down some white dude who has decided, based on his facebook feed, to randomly open fire on innocents with an AR15.

Since Canada, Australia and NZ don't have our forked up culture, their gun laws are common sense reasonable. Until our toxic paranoia ends, it is mostly pointless to talk about new gun laws. Since gun laws reflect the culture, they do not create it.

Until then, keep your head on a swivel and hope the angry white dude doesn't come to your school, church, office or theater. He will eventually come, but maybe you'll get lucky and not be there on that day.

Good luck.

[PizzaSnake]

The gun issue in this country is completely insane.

But it really isn't about new gun laws.

The reason why we have lax guns laws is because of our underlying culture/values. And that culture (at least for a significant minority of our country) is primarily the creation of the powerful and toxic alliance of gun makers, NRA, GOP and right wing media. Which culture only came into being during the past few decades.

Remember that Reagan was a victim of gun violence in the 1980s. The Gipper supported the Brady Bill and also the AWB. Recall that George W. Bush in 2000 campaigned very explicitly on extending Bill Clinton's 1994 AWB. Remember how truly shocked everyone was by Columbine -- that was in 1999.

Since then, the alliance has promoted a weird paranoid culture where there's always great danger, patriots have to throw off the shackles of tyrrany, you always gotta stand your ground, and guns are the way to deal with your minor dis-respects and grievances. And the small-ness of your penis.

FYI, violent crime is at historic lows. And property crimes are again declining after going up during Covid.

They have cowboys, wide open spaces, freedom, video games, crazy people and surprisingly large numbers of guns in places like Canada, Australia and NZ. What those places don't have is our toxic bizzare culture. Which culture requires our children and police officers to regularly face down some white dude who has decided, based on his facebook feed, to randomly open fire on innocents with an AR15.

Since Canada, Australia and NZ don't have our forked up culture, their gun laws are common sense reasonable. Until our toxic paranoia ends, it is mostly pointless to talk about new gun laws. Since gun laws reflect the culture, they do not create it.

Until then, keep your head on a swivel and hope the angry white dude doesn't come to your school, church, office or theater. He will eventually come, but maybe you'll get lucky and not be there on that day.

Good luck.

Exactly. Unfortunately, we're reduced to the "hope and prayer" strategy for our survival. Strange times.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The gun issue in this country is completely insane.

But it really isn't about new gun laws.

The reason why we have lax guns laws is because of our underlying culture/values. And that culture (at least for a significant minority of our country) is primarily the creation of the powerful and toxic alliance of gun makers, NRA, GOP and right wing media. Which culture only came into being during the past few decades.

Remember that Reagan was a victim of gun violence in the 1980s. The Gipper supported the Brady Bill and also the AWB. Recall that George W. Bush in 2000 campaigned very explicitly on extending Bill Clinton's 1994 AWB. Remember how truly shocked everyone was by Columbine -- that was in 1999.

Since then, the alliance has promoted a weird paranoid culture where there's always great danger, patriots have to throw off the shackles of tyrrany, you always gotta stand your ground, and guns are the way to deal with your minor dis-respects and grievances. And the small-ness of your penis.

FYI, violent crime is at historic lows. And property crimes are again declining after going up during Covid.

They have cowboys, wide open spaces, freedom, video games, crazy people and surprisingly large numbers of guns in places like Canada, Australia and NZ. What those places don't have is our toxic bizzare culture. Which culture requires our children and police officers to regularly face down some white dude who has decided, based on his facebook feed, to randomly open fire on innocents with an AR15.

Since Canada, Australia and NZ don't have our forked up culture, their gun laws are common sense reasonable. Until our toxic paranoia ends, it is mostly pointless to talk about new gun laws. Since gun laws reflect the culture, they do not create it.

Until then, keep your head on a swivel and hope the angry white dude doesn't come to your school, church, office or theater. He will eventually come, but maybe you'll get lucky and not be there on that day.

Good luck.

Exactly. Unfortunately, we're reduced to the "hope and prayer" strategy for our survival. Strange times.

ABSOLUTELY

[PizzaSnake]

Here's a thought:

When people espouse ideologies like this gentleman, they need to be identified and subjected to public opprobrium. Oh, and let's make it just a wee bit more difficult for these stupid fcukbags to get their hands on this amount of ordinance. Fcuk the stupid-asz interpretation of the 2nd amendment offered by the dildonic SC as controlled by Leo and hisbunch of oligarchical patrons! May Antonin Scalia rot in hlel for the damage his stupidity has wrought upon our nation! Still curious as to what exactly transpired on that ranch that fateful night...

Now, having said that, what, exactly are we, as a nation going to demand of our "leaders"? Or are we just going to sit around like a bunch of putzes waiting for our turn to be struck down? I know, we can all subject ourselves to self-"quietus" as afforded by the Sackler sociopaths.

This nation is creeping closer to a failed state. And to those who trot out the stats and bromides re violence, explain to me how this indiscriminate horror of wanton, unpredictable violence and mayhem is not rotting our society to the core.

"Mauricio Garcia, a local resident, had multiple weapons on him and five additional guns in his car nearby, said people familiar with the investigation who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the ongoing probe.

Authorities have not released a motive, but a patch on his chest said “RWDS,” an acronym that stands for Right Wing Death Squad, according to people familiar with the investigation. The phrase is popular among right wing extremists, neo-Nazis and white supremacists, they said, and while there is still a great deal of evidence to analyze and authorities have not reached any conclusions yet, investigators are approaching the shooting as a possible hate crime."

How about you sport patches like this you are arrested? Period. Or are we too stupid to recognize the danger these fcuktards represent? Or, how about this: anyone wearing such an identifier becomes fair game for neutralization? Maybe I carry, and if I see said patch, I eliminate the danger to myself?

So, satire, but what will it take for someone, somewhere, to do something besides "tots and pears"? For dog's sake the multiple in Annapolis yesterday didn't even make the headlines. Are we stultified to the point of inaction and helplessness -- fight, flight, or freeze? So what's it gonna be?

[NattyBohChamps04]

Officials investigate shooting as case of racial or ethnically motivated violent extremism

The two law enforcement officials said a preliminary review of what are believed to be the suspect's social media accounts reveal hundreds of posts that include racially or ethnically motivated violent rhetoric, including neo-Nazi material and content espousing white supremacy.

The officials stressed that the investigation was ongoing. The preliminary review found the gunman's posts were not liked or shared by other users.

Still ongoing, buuuut I'm hearing quacks.

[PizzaSnake]

Officials investigate shooting as case of racial or ethnically motivated violent extremism

The two law enforcement officials said a preliminary review of what are believed to be the suspect's social media accounts reveal hundreds of posts that include racially or ethnically motivated violent rhetoric, including neo-Nazi material and content espousing white supremacy.

The officials stressed that the investigation was ongoing. The preliminary review found the gunman's posts were not liked or shared by other users.

Still ongoing, buuuut I'm hearing quacks.

Quack! Quack!

"Shelter director Victor Maldonado reviewed the shelter’s surveillance video and said people, mostly Venezuelan men, were sitting on the curb waiting for the bus.

"What we see in the video is that this SUV, a Range Rover, just ran the light that was about a hundred feet away and just went through the people who were sitting there in the bus stop," Maldonado said. He said the SUV flipped after running up on the curb and continued moving for about 200 feet, also hitting people on the sidewalk about 30 feet away from the main group.

Luis Herrera told Valley Central he and his friends were waiting to go to the airport when they were struck by the SUV, driven by a man who gestured at and insulted them."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 192620007/

[cradleandshoot]

Here's a thought:

When people espouse ideologies like this gentleman, they need to be identified and subjected to public opprobrium. Oh, and let's make it just a wee bit more difficult for these stupid fcukbags to get their hands on this amount of ordinance. Fcuk the stupid-asz interpretation of the 2nd amendment offered by the dildonic SC as controlled by Leo and hisbunch of oligarchical patrons! May Antonin Scalia rot in hlel for the damage his stupidity has wrought upon our nation! Still curious as to what exactly transpired on that ranch that fateful night...

Now, having said that, what, exactly are we, as a nation going to demand of our "leaders"? Or are we just going to sit around like a bunch of putzes waiting for our turn to be struck down? I know, we can all subject ourselves to self-"quietus" as afforded by the Sackler sociopaths.

This nation is creeping closer to a failed state. And to those who trot out the stats and bromides re violence, explain to me how this indiscriminate horror of wanton, unpredictable violence and mayhem is not rotting our society to the core.

"Mauricio Garcia, a local resident, had multiple weapons on him and five additional guns in his car nearby, said people familiar with the investigation who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the ongoing probe.

Authorities have not released a motive, but a patch on his chest said “RWDS,” an acronym that stands for Right Wing Death Squad, according to people familiar with the investigation. The phrase is popular among right wing extremists, neo-Nazis and white supremacists, they said, and while there is still a great deal of evidence to analyze and authorities have not reached any conclusions yet, investigators are approaching the shooting as a possible hate crime."

How about you sport patches like this you are arrested? Period. Or are we too stupid to recognize the danger these fcuktards represent? Or, how about this: anyone wearing such an identifier becomes fair game for neutralization? Maybe I carry, and if I see said patch, I eliminate the danger to myself?

So, satire, but what will it take for someone, somewhere, to do something besides "tots and pears"? For dog's sake the multiple in Annapolis yesterday didn't even make the headlines. Are we stultified to the point of inaction and helplessness -- fight, flight, or freeze? So what's it gonna be?

So if you fly a Betsy Ross flag on your house that makes you a WS given the symbolism that flag? Your seriously advocating punishing people for a patch they wear on their jacket?? You scare me a whole lot more than the WS. Your willing to shred the first and second amendments and are willing to bulldoze anything that stands in the way of your progressive ideology. Go Murica, I'm still trying to process FLP logic. If you burn an American flag liberals consider that freedom of speech. If you burn a gay pride flag you will be thrown in jail and persecuted to the fullest extent of the law. There must be an asterisk hiding somewhere in that silly outdated 1st amendment?

[jhu72]

They keep voting for republiCONs, they keep experiencing these mass shootings of random innocents. Texans are too stupid to live, so fewer of them will. They want to change this, its called a ballot box.

[DMac]

Not so sure much of any change is going to come from a ballot box. The newly elected is going to write more laws?
Our love affair with guns and staunch belief that everyone (pretty much) has the right to have one (or arsenal of)
isn't going to change at the ballot box. Went to a gun show a couple of years back, was just a tag along with my buddy
and his son who wanted to buy an AR15. He walked out with one, I was blown away by how easy it was. Doesn't have a
need in the world for that gun (or the several others that he has) but don't dare tell anyone like that they can't have one.
Until our attitude about guns and everyone's right to have one changes aint much of anything going to change. Culture.

[cradleandshoot]

Not so sure much of any change is going to come from a ballot box. The newly elected is going to write more laws?
Our love affair with guns and staunch belief that everyone (pretty much) has the right to have one (or arsenal of)
isn't going to change at the ballot box. Went to a gun show a couple of years back, was just a tag along with my buddy
and his son who wanted to buy an AR15. He walked out with one, I was blown away by how easy it was. Doesn't have a
need in the world for that gun (or the several others that he has) but don't dare tell anyone like that they can't have one.
Until our attitude about guns and everyone's right to have one changes aint much of anything going to change. Culture.

As long as there is a 2nd amendment that will never change. The American people love their 5.56 pea shooters.

[jhu72]

Not so sure much of any change is going to come from a ballot box. The newly elected is going to write more laws?
Our love affair with guns and staunch belief that everyone (pretty much) has the right to have one (or arsenal of)
isn't going to change at the ballot box. Went to a gun show a couple of years back, was just a tag along with my buddy
and his son who wanted to buy an AR15. He walked out with one, I was blown away by how easy it was. Doesn't have a
need in the world for that gun (or the several others that he has) but don't dare tell anyone like that they can't have one.
Until our attitude about guns and everyone's right to have one changes aint much of anything going to change. Culture.

... that can all change with the ballot box. Banning AR15 or it along with other "assault rifles" is possible. The supreme court already allows it. Tighten background checks, longer waiting periods, raise age for purchase and use, banning certain ammunition types, sale of components which increase firing speed, magazine capacity limits, etc., etc., applying same sane rules to gun shows or outlaw them. It only takes the will to do and punish those who stand in the way. There is an overwhelming majority that want these kinds of changes now. It is going to happen, it is only a question of how many more people will die before we get serious in this country.

If it were Muslims doing all this everyone including the white supremacists would be screaming for these changes.

[cradleandshoot]

Not so sure much of any change is going to come from a ballot box. The newly elected is going to write more laws?
Our love affair with guns and staunch belief that everyone (pretty much) has the right to have one (or arsenal of)
isn't going to change at the ballot box. Went to a gun show a couple of years back, was just a tag along with my buddy
and his son who wanted to buy an AR15. He walked out with one, I was blown away by how easy it was. Doesn't have a
need in the world for that gun (or the several others that he has) but don't dare tell anyone like that they can't have one.
Until our attitude about guns and everyone's right to have one changes aint much of anything going to change. Culture.

... that can all change with the ballot box. Banning AR15 or it along with other "assault rifles" is possible. The supreme court already allows it. Tighten background checks, longer waiting periods, raise age for purchase and use, banning certain ammunition types, sale of components which increase firing speed, magazine capacity limits, etc., etc., applying same sane rules to gun shows or outlaw them. It only takes the will to do and punish those who stand in the way. There is an overwhelming majority that want these kinds of changes now. It is going to happen, it is only a question of how many more people will die before we get serious in this country.

If it were Muslims doing all this everyone including the white supremacists would be screaming for these changes.

So will the changes at the ballot box effect the ever increasing number of people intent on commiting murder? The willingness of so many people that want to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible should be equally disturbing to everyone. The maniac in Texas proved you can kill a lot of people with a car.

[MDlaxfan76]

Not so sure much of any change is going to come from a ballot box. The newly elected is going to write more laws?
Our love affair with guns and staunch belief that everyone (pretty much) has the right to have one (or arsenal of)
isn't going to change at the ballot box. Went to a gun show a couple of years back, was just a tag along with my buddy
and his son who wanted to buy an AR15. He walked out with one, I was blown away by how easy it was. Doesn't have a
need in the world for that gun (or the several others that he has) but don't dare tell anyone like that they can't have one.
Until our attitude about guns and everyone's right to have one changes aint much of anything going to change. Culture.

Certainly we have a culture problem...with a large segment of the American population.

But the majority of Americans, indeed the majority of NRA members even, would support more restrictions on access and use of guns, in particular military style, high capacity weapons.

So, the majority "culture" supports making it much harder to do as you describe, walk in and out of a gun show with a killing machine.

If we look at other areas of government regulation, eg smoking restrictions/taxation and clean air and water environmental laws, we've seen "culture" shift further and further post regulatory reforms being enacted.

Leadership, education, and actual regulation contribute to shifting the culture.

But right now we've become captured by a minority culture which has been whipped into a frenzy by those who profit most from doing so.

Likewise, pizza suggested that people displaying various symbols of hate-based ideologies should be met with "opprobrium" from the rest of us...indeed that used to be the case. While SCOTUS has upheld free speech displays by Nazis, there used to be no question that the majority of Americans were disgusted by such displays. Conservative, liberal, there was disgust. (I don't agree with arresting people for their views, but I'm very ok with focusing attention on them and arresting when they threaten or commit violence, including arresting and prosecuting anyone who aided and abetted in this planning or commission of violence). And the displays certainly should be considered danger signals, to be met with "opprobrium". Public disgrace.

But now a large segment of the population of our country has been so propagandized about the "dangers" from the left, that there is open acceptance of such displays, even from elected leaders. Why? Because there are those who profit from whipping people with this extreme-fear based propaganda.

But it doesn't need to stay this way. A majority of Americans remain disgusted. They need to speak up.

And the best way to accomplish that is for those who accept or embrace the hate-ideologies to lose badly at the ballot box. The majority needs to make these issues "unprofitable" to support, accept, embrace.

[MDlaxfan76]

Not so sure much of any change is going to come from a ballot box. The newly elected is going to write more laws?
Our love affair with guns and staunch belief that everyone (pretty much) has the right to have one (or arsenal of)
isn't going to change at the ballot box. Went to a gun show a couple of years back, was just a tag along with my buddy
and his son who wanted to buy an AR15. He walked out with one, I was blown away by how easy it was. Doesn't have a
need in the world for that gun (or the several others that he has) but don't dare tell anyone like that they can't have one.
Until our attitude about guns and everyone's right to have one changes aint much of anything going to change. Culture.

... that can all change with the ballot box. Banning AR15 or it along with other "assault rifles" is possible. The supreme court already allows it. Tighten background checks, longer waiting periods, raise age for purchase and use, banning certain ammunition types, sale of components which increase firing speed, magazine capacity limits, etc., etc., applying same sane rules to gun shows or outlaw them. It only takes the will to do and punish those who stand in the way. There is an overwhelming majority that want these kinds of changes now. It is going to happen, it is only a question of how many more people will die before we get serious in this country.

If it were Muslims doing all this everyone including the white supremacists would be screaming for these changes.

So will the changes at the ballot box effect the ever increasing number of people intent on commiting murder? The willingness of so many people that want to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible should be equally disturbing to everyone. The maniac in Texas proved you can kill a lot of people with a car.

First, I don't think it's been determined yet that the SUV driver was acting intentionally, though that's very possible. Such acts have indeed been committed by terrorists, typically in places with few guns. But total such deaths in those places from these attacks are far, far less than here, largely because there are fewer people with these sorts of weapons.

You also see more knife attacks. But fewer deaths from mass attacks.

The substitution isn't 1:1.

It is also entirely possible that military style weapons being used in so much of our mass media entertainment, gaming, movies, etc have glamorized this usage in ways that driving a car into a crowd doesn't accomplish...nor do you typically get shot by the police when doing so, which is part of what these mass shooters appear to expect going in. Suicide by cop.

But it won't eliminate the hate nor the suicidal.

[SCLaxAttack]

Not so sure much of any change is going to come from a ballot box. The newly elected is going to write more laws?
Our love affair with guns and staunch belief that everyone (pretty much) has the right to have one (or arsenal of)
isn't going to change at the ballot box. Went to a gun show a couple of years back, was just a tag along with my buddy
and his son who wanted to buy an AR15. He walked out with one, I was blown away by how easy it was. Doesn't have a
need in the world for that gun (or the several others that he has) but don't dare tell anyone like that they can't have one.
Until our attitude about guns and everyone's right to have one changes aint much of anything going to change. Culture.

As long as there is a 2nd amendment that will never change. The American people love their 5.56 pea(ple) shooters.

Fixed that for you.

A segment of society says the problem isn't guns it's mental health. Does this mean anyone guilty of a mass shooting gets off on an insanity plea?

[youthathletics]

Not so sure much of any change is going to come from a ballot box. The newly elected is going to write more laws?
Our love affair with guns and staunch belief that everyone (pretty much) has the right to have one (or arsenal of)
isn't going to change at the ballot box. Went to a gun show a couple of years back, was just a tag along with my buddy
and his son who wanted to buy an AR15. He walked out with one, I was blown away by how easy it was. Doesn't have a
need in the world for that gun (or the several others that he has) but don't dare tell anyone like that they can't have one.
Until our attitude about guns and everyone's right to have one changes aint much of anything going to change. Culture.

As long as there is a 2nd amendment that will never change. The American people love their 5.56 pea(ple) shooters.

Fixed that for you.

A segment of society says the problem isn't guns it's mental health. Does this mean anyone guilty of a mass shooting gets off on an insanity plea?

We also can not blindly ignore the legal profession and just give them a complete pass. Many of those 'so called' mental people have already been in and out of the penal system for decades and the only place to go is to escalate their crimes.

On another front....https://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20220622000665

[PizzaSnake]

Not so sure much of any change is going to come from a ballot box. The newly elected is going to write more laws?
Our love affair with guns and staunch belief that everyone (pretty much) has the right to have one (or arsenal of)
isn't going to change at the ballot box. Went to a gun show a couple of years back, was just a tag along with my buddy
and his son who wanted to buy an AR15. He walked out with one, I was blown away by how easy it was. Doesn't have a
need in the world for that gun (or the several others that he has) but don't dare tell anyone like that they can't have one.
Until our attitude about guns and everyone's right to have one changes aint much of anything going to change. Culture.

... that can all change with the ballot box. Banning AR15 or it along with other "assault rifles" is possible. The supreme court already allows it. Tighten background checks, longer waiting periods, raise age for purchase and use, banning certain ammunition types, sale of components which increase firing speed, magazine capacity limits, etc., etc., applying same sane rules to gun shows or outlaw them. It only takes the will to do and punish those who stand in the way. There is an overwhelming majority that want these kinds of changes now. It is going to happen, it is only a question of how many more people will die before we get serious in this country.

If it were Muslims doing all this everyone including the white supremacists would be screaming for these changes.

So will the changes at the ballot box effect the ever increasing number of people intent on commiting murder? The willingness of so many people that want to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible should be equally disturbing to everyone. The maniac in Texas proved you can kill a lot of people with a car.

First, I don't think it's been determined yet that the SUV driver was acting intentionally, though that's very possible. Such acts have indeed been committed by terrorists, typically in places with few guns. But total such deaths in those places from these attacks are far, far less than here, largely because there are fewer people with these sorts of weapons.

You also see more knife attacks. But fewer deaths from mass attacks.

The substitution isn't 1:1.

It is also entirely possible that military style weapons being used in so much of our mass media entertainment, gaming, movies, etc have glamorized this usage in ways that driving a car into a crowd doesn't accomplish...nor do you typically get shot by the police when doing so, which is part of what these mass shooters appear to expect going in. Suicide by cop.

But it won't eliminate the hate nor the suicidal.

For the lawyers here: when and how are such findings made?

“First, I don't think it's been determined yet that the SUV driver was acting intentionally”

I would hope within a specific, documented and transparent process. And no, having to wrest the data from control via FOIA doesn’t count as transparent.