NCAC 2023

[jlibcon]

Great job Dennison, really good team. Impressed with all the teams for NCAC we played this year, especially Denison and Kenyon, good luck in the playoffs for all.

[bulldodge97]

Playoffs shaping up to be a real doozy. Gonna need someone smarter than me to sort out the potential playoff scenarios headed into the weekend after the dust settles with these Tuesday/Thursday games. Regardless gonna be a dog fight of a playoffs.

Biggest disappointment has to be the Scots. After a Witt 1-goal win vs. Wabash, they definitely thought they were gonna be able to sleep walk through the game and get an easy dub, and they played as such. Kudos to Witt for showing up and playing the game. Think Wooster going from 11-0 to potentially missing the conference playoffs would be a massive disappointment, but it ultimately exposes a weak OOC schedule that ill-prepared them for the week-in week-out battles the NCAC provides.

[redhoya]

Denison 26- Hiram 3

[oldtimelax]

Playoffs shaping up to be a real doozy. Gonna need someone smarter than me to sort out the potential playoff scenarios headed into the weekend after the dust settles with these Tuesday/Thursday games. Regardless gonna be a dog fight of a playoffs.

Biggest disappointment has to be the Scots. After a Witt 1-goal win vs. Wabash, they definitely thought they were gonna be able to sleep walk through the game and get an easy dub, and they played as such. Kudos to Witt for showing up and playing the game. Think Wooster going from 11-0 to potentially missing the conference playoffs would be a massive disappointment, but it ultimately exposes a weak OOC schedule that ill-prepared them for the week-in week-out battles the NCAC provides.

Only hope for the Scots (after they lose today to Denison) is for Oberlin to beat Wittenberg on Saturday and then hope the tiebreakers fall in their favor.

[D3LaxFan2]

Playoffs shaping up to be a real doozy. Gonna need someone smarter than me to sort out the potential playoff scenarios headed into the weekend after the dust settles with these Tuesday/Thursday games. Regardless gonna be a dog fight of a playoffs.

Biggest disappointment has to be the Scots. After a Witt 1-goal win vs. Wabash, they definitely thought they were gonna be able to sleep walk through the game and get an easy dub, and they played as such. Kudos to Witt for showing up and playing the game. Think Wooster going from 11-0 to potentially missing the conference playoffs would be a massive disappointment, but it ultimately exposes a weak OOC schedule that ill-prepared them for the week-in week-out battles the NCAC provides.

This is overly dramatic. Wittenberg played their best game of the season and earned the win. Wooster started slowly, and fought back from down 10-2 to 12-10, but couldn't ultimately pull it out. Pretty sure Wooster's out of conference schedule was better than Wittenberg's, and it had 0 impact on anything.

And how can a team that goes 13-4 (at worst), after going 6-10 last year, be a "massive disappointment" because they lost 1 game that they maybe could have won, while beating a ton of teams who they lost to last year? It makes no sense.

[bulldodge97]

Playoffs shaping up to be a real doozy. Gonna need someone smarter than me to sort out the potential playoff scenarios headed into the weekend after the dust settles with these Tuesday/Thursday games. Regardless gonna be a dog fight of a playoffs.

Biggest disappointment has to be the Scots. After a Witt 1-goal win vs. Wabash, they definitely thought they were gonna be able to sleep walk through the game and get an easy dub, and they played as such. Kudos to Witt for showing up and playing the game. Think Wooster going from 11-0 to potentially missing the conference playoffs would be a massive disappointment, but it ultimately exposes a weak OOC schedule that ill-prepared them for the week-in week-out battles the NCAC provides.

This is overly dramatic. Wittenberg played their best game of the season and earned the win. Wooster started slowly, and fought back from down 10-2 to 12-10, but couldn't ultimately pull it out. Pretty sure Wooster's out of conference schedule was better than Wittenberg's, and it had 0 impact on anything.

And how can a team that goes 13-4 (at worst), after going 6-10 last year, be a "massive disappointment" because they lost 1 game that they maybe could have won, while beating a ton of teams who they lost to last year? It makes no sense.

Wooster won the games they should have (all of them) in their OOC slate. Kudos to them for doing that, and 11-0 is nothing to scoff at. Yes they're improved from last year, but last year was tough in that they did not have a head coach and very few upperclassmen. They have a good enough roster to be competing for a conference championship, and they're sitting as an outlier to get into the conference tournament. After such a promising start, to fall off the way they have is ultimately disappointing.

[boredatwork]

Playoffs shaping up to be a real doozy. Gonna need someone smarter than me to sort out the potential playoff scenarios headed into the weekend after the dust settles with these Tuesday/Thursday games. Regardless gonna be a dog fight of a playoffs.

Honestly, I just looked through the NCAC website and can't find anything about tiebreakers since it looks like Denison/Kenyon/OWU should all finish with the same record for the 1-3 spots and if Oberlin beats Wittenberg there are 3 teams tied for the 4-6 spot.

Again, usually it goes to some sort of goal differential with a cap on it to not encourage too much running up the score in which case Denison would most likely be 1, OWU 2, Kenyon 3 just based off their head to head Goal differential.

If anyone knows the specifics of tie breakers I can break it down, I just cannot for the life of me find a list of the tie breakers

[Nosey Ned]

Playoffs shaping up to be a real doozy. Gonna need someone smarter than me to sort out the potential playoff scenarios headed into the weekend after the dust settles with these Tuesday/Thursday games. Regardless gonna be a dog fight of a playoffs.

Honestly, I just looked through the NCAC website and can't find anything about tiebreakers since it looks like Denison/Kenyon/OWU should all finish with the same record for the 1-3 spots and if Oberlin beats Wittenberg there are 3 teams tied for the 4-6 spot.

Again, usually it goes to some sort of goal differential with a cap on it to not encourage too much running up the score in which case Denison would most likely be 1, OWU 2, Kenyon 3 just based off their head to head Goal differential.

If anyone knows the specifics of tie breakers I can break it down, I just cannot for the life of me find a list of the tie breakers

Hey Bored …. same. Could not find anything regarding tiebreaker rules on Conference site or web search. We started to delve into what we think they are on previous page so not going to repeat but I agree, Denison I think have the inside track on the 1 seed whether it’s GD amongst just the 3 tied teams or against the whole conference. The question is, when 3 teams are tied, does goal differential (what I think is first tiebreaker) revert then to head to head once the 1 is determined? I have no idea. But I think it matters, OWU gets the 2 and home field if reverts to head to head w Kenyon where Kenyon gets it if GD continues. Shame the conference doesn’t spell it out … and TBH I won’t even blindly believe/trust what the student commentators will be saying about it on the weekend broadcasts. I guess we just have to wait for the announcement.

[Rebo]

Not sure this is still operative or even whether it was accurate at the time, but this was posted on an NCAC Board in 2021:

"From an AD at an NCAC school....tie-breaker rules for Lacrosse Division Championship....one representative from each...

Men’s Lacrosse

1. Head-to-Head competition between the tied teams.

2. Point system: Three points for a regulation win, two points for an overtime win, one point for an overtime loss and zero points for a
regulation loss.

3. Goal differential between tied teams with a maximum of a 10-goal difference.

4. Total goal differential among all teams in division with a maximum of a 10-goal difference each game.

5. Coin toss."

[FannOLax]

Hmmm, but 2021 was an odd year, when they divided the conference into two divisions because of the pandemic; so I wouldn't count on all of it carrying over into 2023. It might, but....The powers that be really should post the tie-break rules on-line.

[Nosey Ned]

Well the results that seem to matter are in. The only game left in the conference is tonight’s battle of the Terriers - Hiram at Wooster in a game I have the Wooster Scottish Terriers as a 20 goal favorite. Assuming Wooster does win this game by at least the 10 goal max differential allowed for seeding purposes, that would leave the following ……

in conference record / GD between tied teams / GD in all conference games.

For the 1 seed
Denison 7-1 / +5 / +65
Kenyon 7-1 / -1 / +48
OWU 7-1 / -4 / +37

Denison will get the 1 seed with Kenyon and OWU obviously the 2&3 seeds. Who is the 2 and host for their Semi Final is still speculation as we don’t know the tiebreaker rules for certain. If it is still GD, Kenyon is the 2 - if it goes to head to head after the 1 seed is determined, OWU is the 2. We’ll just have to wait and see.

For the 4 seed
Oberlin 4-4 / +4 / +17
Wooster 4-4 / +1 / +2
Wittenberg 4-4 / -5 / -15

Oberlin should earn the final playoff spot and face Denison at Denison.

The above of course assumes the first tiebreaker if 3 teams have the same conference record and are 1-1 against the other two teams they are tied with, is goal differential. It turns out that whether it’s GD between the 3 tied teams or the whole conference doesn’t matter because both will give the same result in both tied groups.

[oldtimelax]

NCAC Men's Lacrosse Tournament
May 3rd - 7th, 2023
Semifinals: Thurs., May 4 at High Seeds
Final: Sun., May 7 at Highest Remaining Seed
Semifinals - Thursday, May 4
No. 4 Oberlin (4-4) at No. 1 Denison (7-1), 7:30 p.m.
No. 3 Ohio Wesleyan (7-1) at No. 2 Kenyon (7-1), 4:00 p.m.
Championship - Sunday, May 7
at Highest Remaining Seed
Semifinal Winners

[MarionBarry]

Is it definitely owu at kenyon?? Still some debate on this about head to head vs. Goal differential. I think the home field will play a huge role in that game

[boredatwork]

Is it definitely owu at kenyon?? Still some debate on this about head to head vs. Goal differential. I think the home field will play a huge role in that game

https://athletics.kenyon.edu/sports/men ... e/schedule Per Kenyon and Owu's schedule, this game will be at Kenyon

[MarionBarry]

Is it definitely owu at kenyon?? Still some debate on this about head to head vs. Goal differential. I think the home field will play a huge role in that game

https://athletics.kenyon.edu/sports/men ... e/schedule Per Kenyon and Owu's schedule, this game will be at Kenyon

Don't trust it for some reason...

[Nosey Ned]

[flash=] loop[/flash]

........
Biggest disappointment has to be the Scots. After a Witt 1-goal win vs. Wabash, they definitely thought they were gonna be able to sleep walk through the game and get an easy dub, and they played as such. Kudos to Witt for showing up and playing the game. Think Wooster going from 11-0 to potentially missing the conference playoffs would be a massive disappointment, but it ultimately exposes a weak OOC schedule that ill-prepared them for the week-in week-out battles the NCAC provides.

This is overly dramatic. .........Pretty sure Wooster's out of conference schedule was better than Wittenberg's, and it had 0 impact on anything.

And how can a team that goes 13-4 (at worst), after going 6-10 last year, be a "massive disappointment" because they lost 1 game that they maybe could have won, while beating a ton of teams who they lost to last year? It makes no sense.

Wooster won the games they should have (all of them) in their OOC slate. Kudos to them for doing that, and 11-0 is nothing to scoff at. Yes they're improved from last year, but last year was tough in that they did not have a head coach and very few upperclassmen. They have a good enough roster to be competing for a conference championship, and they're sitting as an outlier to get into the conference tournament. After such a promising start, to fall off the way they have is ultimately disappointing.

Wooster loaded up on cream puffs and built a 9-0 record OOC. Started 2-0 in conference to get to 11-0. They must have started to believe the hype being "barked" by their supporters and bought in to the idea they were indeed the new "Big Dawgs" of the conference. They lost to a Wittenberg team they should have beat and that cost them the 4 seed. Down the stretch they lost 4 of their last 6. The 11-0 start became a historic asterisk on the season. Absolutely a "disappointment" for them but it shows ultimately they weren't prepared and their conference results showed they're NOT ready to compete for a Championship because if they were, the Wooster Scottish Terriers would still be playing. But alas, they're not - end of story.

[oldtimelax]

Thursday's game between OWU and Kenyon will be the one to watch -- an intriguing matchup. Kenyon was up 4-0 in the first quarter, but the Bishops came on after that and won a tough contest in adverse conditions, 10-8. Kenyon then turned around in the next game and upset Denison 14-13, scoring the dagger in the final 20 seconds. Last year, Kenyon beat the Bishops twice, including a 12-6 thumping in the NCAC playoffs in Gambier.

Bishops had a very interesting season. Nine of their ten top scorers are either freshmen or sophomores, and their offense got more confident as the season wore on. They held a first-half lead vs. Denison but faded in the fourth quarter and lost 11-5. Their three captains are all defensive middies and their close defense grew together and is playing very well at the end of the season. They have rotated goalies and, while not a strong point, got capable coverage in the nets. Their freshman FOGO might not have the stats that the Kenyon and Denison FOGOs have, but he's a tough kid who is going to be great.

If the Bishops can put together a complete game like the first half vs. Denison and the second half vs. Kenyon, they could be tough to beat. Can't wait for 4PM on Thursday.

[Nosey Ned]

Bishops ….. held a first-half lead vs. Denison but faded in the fourth quarter and lost 11-5.

Hey Old …. Haha never let the facts get in the way of a good story. To say it was a Q4 fade that did OWU in, seems a bit of a stretch from my perspective. The Bishops did score with about 6 minutes left in Q2 to go up 4-1. But the box score shows that from THAT point on, Denison out scored the Bishops 10-1. Taking the lead for good 5 minutes in to 3Q. I know it’s splitting hairs but the final was 11-5 so it really wasn’t close (the Bishops lost Q3 by 4-0 and Q4 by 4-1) so suggesting it was a Q4 “fade” is not a fair assessment IMHO.

Now none of this will matter in the potential rematch. But first Denison needs to take care of business against Oberlin. I seem to remember the Big Red beat Kenyon by 20+ goals one season recently and when they played a week later in the Semifinals, Kenyon came to play and it was a 3 goal game late in Q3 until the Big Red pulled away late. Show up to play against Oberlin and worry about Kenyon or OWU when the time comes.

Good luck to all 4 teams and may the best team in the Conference win and represent the NCAC well.

GO BIG RED

[oldtimelax]

Bishops ….. held a first-half lead vs. Denison but faded in the fourth quarter and lost 11-5.

Hey Old …. Haha never let the facts get in the way of a good story. To say it was a Q4 fade that did OWU in, seems a bit of a stretch from my perspective. The Bishops did score with about 6 minutes left in Q2 to go up 4-1. But the box score shows that from THAT point on, Denison out scored the Bishops 10-1. Taking the lead for good 5 minutes in to 3Q. I know it’s splitting hairs but the final was 11-5 so it really wasn’t close (the Bishops lost Q3 by 4-0 and Q4 by 4-1) so suggesting it was a Q4 “fade” is not a fair assessment IMHO.

Now none of this will matter in the potential rematch. But first Denison needs to take care of business against Oberlin. I seem to remember the Big Red beat Kenyon by 20+ goals one season recently and when they played a week later in the Semifinals, Kenyon came to play and it was a 3 goal game late in Q3 until the Big Red pulled away late. Show up to play against Oberlin and worry about Kenyon or OWU when the time comes.

Good luck to all 4 teams and may the best team in the Conference win and represent the NCAC well.

GO BIG RED

Jeez, Ned....let's split hairs. OWU has ahead at the half, 4-3. Big Red took the lead in the 3rd, but OWU scored with four minutes left to cut it to 6-5, Denison. Most observers would say that is still a close game. Denison held a 7-5 lead going into the 4Q. Then they score four unanswered goals and pulled away.

https://denisonbigred.com/sports/mens-l ... score/8090

[Nosey Ned]

I said I was being picky but still I stand by my assessment that when you score 1 goal in the last 36 minutes of game time (being outscored 10-1) I don’t think you can say the team faded in the last 15. They lost the 3rd by 4-0 - the fade was in place. We can agree to disagree.

Regardless, what’s done is done. Good luck to the Bishops, they have matured during the year I’m sure. Denison needs to handle Oberlin and OWU will have a hungry Kenyon to deal with. Here’s hoping for a good Tournament and may the best team win!