Johns Hopkins 2023

[Sagittarius A*]

The gross mischaracterization of Petro’s term as a coach has a life of its own.

O'C - first point - virtually everything out of the Black Hole's computer is a gross mischaracterization so welcome to Hopkins thread life with him.

Second point - would you not agree that one of Petro's primary philosphies - reported to be due to his belief the reward vs risk was extremely low because of stick technology - was keep everything in front of you - slide to recover and let the goalie see the shot from alittle further out than the opponent prefered? I thought the first person to say that on this board was .... You

So it is not mind boggingly different but my perception is that Koesterer's defensive philosphy has a little more on ball pressure and double teams than Petro's generally did.

In terms of any mischaracterization - gross or otherwise - one of the biggest contributors on this topic is the biggest voice in the sport - Quint. He absolutely LOVED to call Petro's defensive scheme "SOFT". That was his word - not conservative not position oriented but SOFT.

In terms of SSDMs - my thought goes back to Mr. Dickens "It was the Best of Times (Benson Erwin etc.) it was the worst of times (the smurfs)". I just don't believe rolling out 5'7" and 5'9" as some of your primary SSDMs will work on a consistent basis. Size matters - you need athleticism of course with that size but you generally need size. Do you want Cody Ince locked on Griffin Schutz on a consistent basis? Nothing at all against the young man but having 2 guys that average out to 6' ft tall and 190 lbs or so as your primary SSDMs is not a luxury Petro had in his last few years. He probably began the grooming of players like Lilly and Mabbett for those roles but they didn't get to see the field alot in '19.

Your first two points are mutually contradictory LOL.
But thanks for actually backing me up on something for perhaps the first time ever. Wait, I think you may have agreed with me on something last year...
Nothing actually escapes from a Black Hole, but it does emit Hawking radiation, so there's that.

[OCanada]

I am as totally all in on the early recruiting, though i recognize the merit, several other blue chip programs were all active participants so i think individual school identities mattered in decisions. One factor i have not seen mentioned is goalie recruitment. I thought Hopkins undervalued the importance thinking there were enough good enough goalies to be found. Gvozden sold me Xmas trees. I was happy to see him accepted. He just never seemed to reach top D-1 ability. The shots he saw in D-1 were not what he saw in Maryland Public school competition. Just my observation

[OCanada]

The gross mischaracterization of Petro’s term as a coach has a life of its own.

O'C - first point - virtually everything out of the Black Hole's computer is a gross mischaracterization so welcome to Hopkins thread life with him.

Second point - would you not agree that one of Petro's primary philosphies - reported to be due to his belief the reward vs risk was extremely low because of stick technology - was keep everything in front of you - slide to recover and let the goalie see the shot from alittle further out than the opponent prefered? I thought the first person to say that on this board was .... You

So it is not mind boggingly different but my perception is that Koesterer's defensive philosphy has a little more on ball pressure and double teams than Petro's generally did.

In terms of any mischaracterization - gross or otherwise - one of the biggest contributors on this topic is the biggest voice in the sport - Quint. He absolutely LOVED to call Petro's defensive scheme "SOFT". That was his word - not conservative not position oriented but SOFT.

In terms of SSDMs - my thought goes back to Mr. Dickens "It was the Best of Times (Benson Erwin etc.) it was the worst of times (the smurfs)". I just don't believe rolling out 5'7" and 5'9" as some of your primary SSDMs will work on a consistent basis. Size matters - you need athleticism of course with that size but you generally need size. Do you want Cody Ince locked on Griffin Schutz on a consistent basis? Nothing at all against the young man but having 2 guys that average out to 6' ft tall and 190 lbs or so as your primary SSDMs is not a luxury Petro had in his last few years. He probably began the grooming of players like Lilly and Mabbett for those roles but they didn't get to see the field alot in '19.

Your first two points are mutually contradictory LOL.
But thanks for actually backing me up on something for perhaps the first time ever. Wait, I think you may have agreed with me on something last year...
Nothing actually escapes from a Black Hole, but it does emit Hawking radiation, so there's that.

Lost in time is the other Middie who played with Benson early on. I may be biased but Benson and Kyle Harrison when on the field together were the best two i have seen.

[jhu06]

It is a question of probabilities and resources

Agree 100% - for the record I was not quoting you but paraphrasing off of memory. Anyway the one rejoinder I think to your points is the old Bill Parcells line - Petro not only was the chef but he shopped for all the groceries as well. To continue that analogy - it is clear - maybe not to some - that he could not buy any produce or meat that he wanted - others were shopping as well and competiton for the best produce or marbled ribeye was/is fierce - BUT - he didn't have to be almost always among the first to enter the store when it opened and start buying bananas for a joke intended example before they were ripe - I think that contributed to some meals that didn't come out as planned.

All that aside - and did I miss '06 on this because I can't believe he hasn't made an issue of this - but who was the kid on the short bus from the BIG that decided 1 PM and 3:30 PM on a Thursday in the middle of a good sized NE American City was a great idea? Who's going to be there to watch those games? If you're a Maryland fan for example and they defeat Rutgers you get the pleasure of watching your team and then Baltimore traffic at 5:30/BW Parkway or 95 traffic and then maybe to top it off some Washington DC beltway traffic. Yum Yum sign me up. Then on Saturday - the second half of the Championship game is right at post time for the Kentucky Derby. AND it appears if you look at the BTN schedule the event immediately preceding the Championship game is Ohio State/Iowa baseball - yes that's right the sport where the game can theoretically never end. AND the women's lax 'Ship is at 8 PM - I'm not saying men's sports are more important but isn't it fair to say there is a higher level of interest and viewership connected to men's lax? Close to 7,000 people braved the threat of storms and rain to watch Hopkins/Marland - 1900 watched the #2 Northwestern team play Maryland last night.

The only thing I could come up with on the scheduling for the big ten tournament is that they have the womens tournament on in prime time. They could do friday/sunday for one of the leagues but I guess this is what they've got. I'm sure Homewood wasn't pleased with the schedules or maybe they requested them but that's life. I'd love to get upset about the big ten network but I think it's been a plus for the national audience exposure having the games at night instead of all clustered in the middle of the day where espn puts the ivies and acc (which is perennially on Quint's list of rants along with moving the ncaa tournament to june, teams scheduling tougher, etc). We also didn't have to deal with big ten plus this year-another positive.

https://www.youtube.com/@wayneterp/videos

for the diehards they have the full press conference videos for both teams up. Apparently there's a shirt from last nights win that was already printed before the game. I guess the bookstore has been taking the comments here personally.

[J. Byrd]

Super happy to see Hopkins students getting into the game last night. Energy must be high on campus and the student body is taking notice! Excited to see what Homewood looks like coming up.

[jhu06]

Marcille at 2 minutes in-you could see him get wildly excited talking about the defense which seemed to follow whatever the game plan was, particularly in the 4th. They probably could have had a chair for mazzone as well. Tillman get knocked around a few weeks ago for his glove gambit but his comments were highly complimentary maybe because it was a 10 minute press conference and he got tired of using the "we made mistakes" line after the 3rd or 4th time dropping it. He included by individual names the old staff as well in there.

The goaltending situation is interesting. They haven't been shy about pulling narewski or others if they were struggling with faceoffs. The midfield has been in flux all year. Marcille seems to be in a different situation. It looked last night like maryland was having success high and right on him.

[MDlaxfan76]

I am as totally all in on the early recruiting, though i recognize the merit, several other blue chip programs were all active participants so i think individual school identities mattered in decisions. One factor i have not seen mentioned is goalie recruitment. I thought Hopkins undervalued the importance thinking there were enough good enough goalies to be found. Gvozden sold me Xmas trees. I was happy to see him accepted. He just never seemed to reach top D-1 ability. The shots he saw in D-1 were not what he saw in Maryland Public school competition. Just my observation

Actually, you may recall a considerable amount of discussion of the particular challenge of recruiting goalies in ER. I contended that with extremely few exceptions, it's almost impossible to predict which young, 8th, 9th, even 10th graders, are going to turn out to be 50% + D1 goalies...and yet that's what Hopkins tried to do, often with the very first goalie commit per class during that era...I don't think ANY of those super early commits ended up panning out, either because they never made it to campus (and didn't light it up elsewhere either!) or blew up for one reason or another at Hop.

Was that simply bad luck? I contended in real time during ER that what gets goalies noticed that early is relative athleticism due to early maturity. Running around out of the goal, throwing one's body around, can be "noticed", whereas technique and resilience typically are much quieter attributes that stand a tender much better later on than the early success due to athleticism. Indeed, early success can lead to poor technique being accepted, and when shooters get better, pressure gets higher, the inevitable rough days can be really daunting if the resilience isn't there.

I think Hop did much better in its goalie recruitment earlier on, pre ER, when Hopkins' recruitment was better considered, with much more insight.

[JHU69]

Marcille at 2 minutes in-you could see him get wildly excited talking about the defense which seemed to follow whatever the game plan was, particularly in the 4th. They probably could have had a chair for mazzone as well. Tillman get knocked around a few weeks ago for his glove gambit but his comments were highly complimentary maybe because it was a 10 minute press conference and he got tired of using the "we made mistakes" line after the 3rd or 4th time dropping it. He included by individual names the old staff as well in there.

The goaltending situation is interesting. They haven't been shy about pulling narewski or others if they were struggling with faceoffs. The midfield has been in flux all year. Marcille seems to be in a different situation. It looked last night like maryland was having success high and right on him.

Another night game! Has anyone looked into that?

[jrn19]

Marcille is 65 saves and 66 goals against for 49.6% in night games compared to 93 saves to 86 against in day games + Syracuse for 52%. I’m counting Virginia as a day game in that. Not a huge difference and he was great against Jacksonville, UNC, Navy in night games early in year.

I think it’s a case of opponents having more tape on him, as mentioned above Maryland seemed to have success going to his left and high. I think Ohio State game was also just sort of a SSS game. Didn’t see a lot of shots. But MD and PSU games were def struggles.

He’s a good goalie. Good goalies also have light stretches. Probably not a First Team AA goalie like Fracyon is.

[Hail to the Victors]

It is a question of probabilities and resources

Agree 100% - for the record I was not quoting you but paraphrasing off of memory. Anyway the one rejoinder I think to your points is the old Bill Parcells line - Petro not only was the chef but he shopped for all the groceries as well. To continue that analogy - it is clear - maybe not to some - that he could not buy any produce or meat that he wanted - others were shopping as well and competiton for the best produce or marbled ribeye was/is fierce - BUT - he didn't have to be almost always among the first to enter the store when it opened and start buying bananas for a joke intended example before they were ripe - I think that contributed to some meals that didn't come out as planned.

All that aside - and did I miss '06 on this because I can't believe he hasn't made an issue of this - but who was the kid on the short bus from the BIG that decided 1 PM and 3:30 PM on a Thursday in the middle of a good sized NE American City was a great idea? Who's going to be there to watch those games? If you're a Maryland fan for example and they defeat Rutgers you get the pleasure of watching your team and then Baltimore traffic at 5:30/BW Parkway or 95 traffic and then maybe to top it off some Washington DC beltway traffic. Yum Yum sign me up. Then on Saturday - the second half of the Championship game is right at post time for the Kentucky Derby. AND it appears if you look at the BTN schedule the event immediately preceding the Championship game is Ohio State/Iowa baseball - yes that's right the sport where the game can theoretically never end. AND the women's lax 'Ship is at 8 PM - I'm not saying men's sports are more important but isn't it fair to say there is a higher level of interest and viewership connected to men's lax? Close to 7,000 people braved the threat of storms and rain to watch Hopkins/Marland - 1900 watched the #2 Northwestern team play Maryland last night.

No one cares about spectators at games. Lax is just there to provide filler content for the network until the real sports kick into high gear again.

[jrn19]

TV is what dictates the decisions, not in person attendance. Not sure what’s doing the better ratings for BTN, men’s or women’s games but I do know men’s games have only done around 25-30k ish this year on BTN.

[OCanada]

It is a question of probabilities and resources

Agree 100% - for the record I was not quoting you but paraphrasing off of memory. Anyway the one rejoinder I think to your points is the old Bill Parcells line - Petro not only was the chef but he shopped for all the groceries as well. To continue that analogy - it is clear - maybe not to some - that he could not buy any produce or meat that he wanted - others were shopping as well and competiton for the best produce or marbled ribeye was/is fierce - BUT - he didn't have to be almost always among the first to enter the store when it opened and start buying bananas for a joke intended example before they were ripe - I think that contributed to some meals that didn't come out as planned.

All that aside - and did I miss '06 on this because I can't believe he hasn't made an issue of this - but who was the kid on the short bus from the BIG that decided 1 PM and 3:30 PM on a Thursday in the middle of a good sized NE American City was a great idea? Who's going to be there to watch those games? If you're a Maryland fan for example and they defeat Rutgers you get the pleasure of watching your team and then Baltimore traffic at 5:30/BW Parkway or 95 traffic and then maybe to top it off some Washington DC beltway traffic. Yum Yum sign me up. Then on Saturday - the second half of the Championship game is right at post time for the Kentucky Derby. AND it appears if you look at the BTN schedule the event immediately preceding the Championship game is Ohio State/Iowa baseball - yes that's right the sport where the game can theoretically never end. AND the women's lax 'Ship is at 8 PM - I'm not saying men's sports are more important but isn't it fair to say there is a higher level of interest and viewership connected to men's lax? Close to 7,000 people braved the threat of storms and rain to watch Hopkins/Marland - 1900 watched the #2 Northwestern team play Maryland last night.

No one cares about spectators at games. Lax is just there to provide filler content for the network until the real sports kick into high gear again.

That is true to a point but lacrosse was out on ESPN bcs of a Hopkins alum as a means of spreading the sport.

[OCanada]

I am not as totally all in on the early recruiting, though i recognize the merit, several other blue chip programs were all active participants so i think individual school identities mattered in decisions. One factor i have not seen mentioned is goalie recruitment. I thought Hopkins undervalued the importance thinking there were enough good enough goalies to be found. Gvozden sold me Xmas trees. I was happy to see him accepted. He just never seemed to reach top D-1 ability. The shots he saw in D-1 were not what he saw in Maryland Public school competition. Just my observation

Actually, you may recall a considerable amount of discussion of the particular challenge of recruiting goalies in ER. I contended that with extremely few exceptions, it's almost impossible to predict which young, 8th, 9th, even 10th graders, are going to turn out to be 50% + D1 goalies...and yet that's what Hopkins tried to do, often with the very first goalie commit per class during that era...I don't think ANY of those super early commits ended up panning out, either because they never made it to campus (and didn't light it up elsewhere either!) or blew up for one reason or another at Hop.

Was that simply bad luck? I contended in real time during ER that what gets goalies noticed that early is relative athleticism due to early maturity. Running around out of the goal, throwing one's body around, can be "noticed", whereas technique and resilience typically are much quieter attributes that stand a tender much better later on than the early success due to athleticism. Indeed, early success can lead to poor technique being accepted, and when shooters get better, pressure gets higher, the inevitable rough days can be really daunting if the resilience isn't there.

I think Hop did much better in its goalie recruitment earlier on, pre ER, when Hopkins' recruitment was better considered, with much more insight.

I don’t recall any of that probably bcs i did not follow that thread in depth. Petro did not emphasize goalie as much as other positions. ( My interpretation: every team has a goalie and there are enough candidates one will be good enough. ) It had so much bad information in it. Gvozden was not an 8th grade recruit nor was the goslie from AZ ? TX? Best i recall. Agree in general w your point about youth. Executive finction matures late and physical development can also happen late. Our son grew 1 foot in one year. It was amazing how often new clothes were required and how much interest developed after

[steel_hop]

This team - depending upon its ultimate draw could make some noise in the NCAA tournament - but there is one major cloud on the horizon - goaltending. Unless you have a video game offense like Duke in one of those years you can't survive a goalie save % in the 30/40s on a consistent basis. The defense held Maryland to 33 shots - 17 on goal - Maryland averages 43 shots per game and multiplying that by 60% means they put about 24-25 on goal. And yet we were one non turnover away from 1 more shot and possibly OT. 38/39/40 and 35 in 4 of your last 6 outings is a bit of an issue and one of your exactly 50% outings was stopping 8 of 16 shots on goal against Ohio State who could finish the season 5-9. He's one of the all time Hopkins favorite players and his outlet passes have been spot on but we need better at Job #1.

Of course we have Maryland or Rutgers to worry about before that.

I was at the game on Saturday night, Marcille didn't look like he let in any goals that he shouldn't have or least they weren't egregious back breakers that Hopkins goals have let in in past years. There were goals that you could say, that would have been a great save but most of UMds goals were shots not even the best DI goalie was going to save. Would you like to see the save percentage higher sure. But, Hopkins defense is playing well and TM is making the saves you want. Could there be instances were something happens and he get's pulled? I guess but not see it right now given how the defense was playing.

As an aside, there was at least 1 save I don't think was counted that he made. UMd didn't get a reset but I thought they should have. It was in the 3rd quarter.

[10stone5]

Pierce Bassett was out of Brophy Prep AZ,
it was a big deal among the western lacrosse crowd where getting recruits into top tier schools were few,

I don’t recall Bassett as being an early recruit.

Hunter Rodgers was another Brophy Prep recruit to Hopkins.

[MDlaxfan76]

I am not as totally all in on the early recruiting, though i recognize the merit, several other blue chip programs were all active participants so i think individual school identities mattered in decisions. One factor i have not seen mentioned is goalie recruitment. I thought Hopkins undervalued the importance thinking there were enough good enough goalies to be found. Gvozden sold me Xmas trees. I was happy to see him accepted. He just never seemed to reach top D-1 ability. The shots he saw in D-1 were not what he saw in Maryland Public school competition. Just my observation

Actually, you may recall a considerable amount of discussion of the particular challenge of recruiting goalies in ER. I contended that with extremely few exceptions, it's almost impossible to predict which young, 8th, 9th, even 10th graders, are going to turn out to be 50% + D1 goalies...and yet that's what Hopkins tried to do, often with the very first goalie commit per class during that era...I don't think ANY of those super early commits ended up panning out, either because they never made it to campus (and didn't light it up elsewhere either!) or blew up for one reason or another at Hop.

Was that simply bad luck? I contended in real time during ER that what gets goalies noticed that early is relative athleticism due to early maturity. Running around out of the goal, throwing one's body around, can be "noticed", whereas technique and resilience typically are much quieter attributes that stand a tender much better later on than the early success due to athleticism. Indeed, early success can lead to poor technique being accepted, and when shooters get better, pressure gets higher, the inevitable rough days can be really daunting if the resilience isn't there.

I think Hop did much better in its goalie recruitment earlier on, pre ER, when Hopkins' recruitment was better considered, with much more insight.

I don’t recall any of that probably bcs i did not follow that thread in depth. Petro did not emphasize goalie as much as other positions. ( My interpretation: every team has a goalie and there are enough candidates one will be good enough. ) It had so much bad information in it. Gvozden was not an 8th grade recruit nor was the goslie from AZ ? TX? Best i recall. Agree in general w your point about youth. Executive finction matures late and physical development can also happen late. Our son grew 1 foot in one year. It was amazing how often new clothes were required and how much interest developed after

Gvozden was recruited pre-true ER. ER had started to work its way to after sophomore season close to junior, but it wasn't until the HS class of 2012 that the first player (an attack man) was committed before his sophomore spring season. ER accelerated from there. Gvozden was 6 years earlier. Schwartzman much earlier as well. Bassett (yes AZ) was the last successful recruit, pre-heavy ER, class of 2009. Could fairly argue Schneider HS 2010. Also before Hopkins began its spiral. And then I think at least 6 years of misses during ever earlier ER, beginning with the HS class of 2012. Frequently first announced recruit, as was the case in 2012...that recruit never made it to campus.

You may well be correct about Petro's more general attitude about goalies. I dunno about that.

[DocBarrister]

I like Marcille and we know the Blue Jays have at least two capable backups. Difficult to remember the last time we had such depth in goal.

Marcille tends to be streaky, which I think is something he will need to improve. Having said that, his clearing passes are among the best I’ve seen from a Hopkins goalie in the last couple of decades. A true strength of his.

Best of all, the D plays well with Marcille in goal. Good communication.

DocBarrister

[primitiveskills]

I am not as totally all in on the early recruiting, though i recognize the merit, several other blue chip programs were all active participants so i think individual school identities mattered in decisions. One factor i have not seen mentioned is goalie recruitment. I thought Hopkins undervalued the importance thinking there were enough good enough goalies to be found. Gvozden sold me Xmas trees. I was happy to see him accepted. He just never seemed to reach top D-1 ability. The shots he saw in D-1 were not what he saw in Maryland Public school competition. Just my observation

Actually, you may recall a considerable amount of discussion of the particular challenge of recruiting goalies in ER. I contended that with extremely few exceptions, it's almost impossible to predict which young, 8th, 9th, even 10th graders, are going to turn out to be 50% + D1 goalies...and yet that's what Hopkins tried to do, often with the very first goalie commit per class during that era...I don't think ANY of those super early commits ended up panning out, either because they never made it to campus (and didn't light it up elsewhere either!) or blew up for one reason or another at Hop.

Was that simply bad luck? I contended in real time during ER that what gets goalies noticed that early is relative athleticism due to early maturity. Running around out of the goal, throwing one's body around, can be "noticed", whereas technique and resilience typically are much quieter attributes that stand a tender much better later on than the early success due to athleticism. Indeed, early success can lead to poor technique being accepted, and when shooters get better, pressure gets higher, the inevitable rough days can be really daunting if the resilience isn't there.

I think Hop did much better in its goalie recruitment earlier on, pre ER, when Hopkins' recruitment was better considered, with much more insight.

I don’t recall any of that probably bcs i did not follow that thread in depth. Petro did not emphasize goalie as much as other positions. ( My interpretation: every team has a goalie and there are enough candidates one will be good enough. ) It had so much bad information in it. Gvozden was not an 8th grade recruit nor was the goslie from AZ ? TX? Best i recall. Agree in general w your point about youth. Executive finction matures late and physical development can also happen late. Our son grew 1 foot in one year. It was amazing how often new clothes were required and how much interest developed after

Gvozden was recruited pre-true ER. ER had started to work its way to after sophomore season close to junior, but it wasn't until the HS class of 2012 that the first player (an attack man) was committed before his sophomore spring season. ER accelerated from there. Gvozden was 6 years earlier. Schwartzman much earlier as well. Bassett (yes AZ) was the last successful recruit, pre-heavy ER, class of 2009. Could fairly argue Schneider HS 2010. Also before Hopkins began its spiral. And then I think at least 6 years of misses during ever earlier ER, beginning with the HS class of 2012. Frequently first announced recruit, as was the case in 2012...that recruit never made it to campus.

You may well be correct about Petro's more general attitude about goalies. I dunno about that.

I very much doubt that was his philosophy around goalies. His whole defense was designed to give up shots from 10-12 yds+. You would think there would be a premium on getting a goalie that could routinely stop those.

Agree that ER for goalies was a disaster. Given the huge difference in shooting between D1 and even the best HS leagues, predicting which keepers will work out is tough. It is impossible if you are making that determination based on JV games and 9th grade club ball.

[Chitown]

Maybe I am the only one who noticed, BUT at Coach Tillman's post game interview, he noted that Hopkins ran Bobby Benson's offensive scheme AND that many of Hopkins best players are Pietramala's recruits, ???

I think that the motion offense is not Bobby Benson's offense , and that the recruits from years ago have been coached for years by the current staff. Is Coach "Tills" really that upset at losing to the Blue that he wants to start a personal vendetta with Hopkins? Don't we have enough reasons to hate each other??

[The Orfling]

Maybe I am the only one who noticed, BUT at Coach Tillman's post game interview, he noted that Hopkins ran Bobby Benson's offensive scheme AND that many of Hopkins best players are Pietramala's recruits, ???

I think that the motion offense is not Bobby Benson's offense , and that the recruits from years ago have been coached for years by the current staff. Is Coach "Tills" really that upset at losing to the Blue that he wants to start a personal vendetta with Hopkins? Don't we have enough reasons to hate each other??

It does seem odd to suggest they were running the former OC's offensive scheme when he's been gone for a while, but I would have a pretty charitable interpretation on referencing the players that Pietremala brought in -- it's always irksome when there's a narrative that the former coach is a non-person or that players recruited by the prior regime didn't count. Tillman coached for many years against Petro so it seems like a standup move to me to give him some credit for the roster building? (I thought Tiffany could have been more gracious in 2019 when UVA won its first national championship in acknowledging how many of that 2019 teams stars had been recruited by Dom Starsia, so maybe there's just no way to win on that particular issue.)