NCAA Selection Discussion - Containment Thread

[Farfromgeneva]

Right, and RPI as it is at the moment for current resumes about who teams have beaten and, at the end of the year when it is used for selection, the final RPIs. You don't get credit for beating a "top 10" RPI team because they were #6 when you played them in week 2 but end up at #27.

I call BS.

It’s just wrong to use spot ratings with incomplete information. Point in time rankings or ratings nothing. No BS in what Pcow wrote he’s correct it’s kiddie mathematical understanding.

The one area that it would get gnarly in any assessment would be in the category of bad losses,
who you’ve beaten is another matter, its RPIs 1 through 20,
but bad losses is an odd measure - Loyola beat two top ten teams early, but they could end up with an RPI in the 25-30 range. Is that really a bad loss, teams in the 20-30 range aren’t really “bad” teams, they can and do beat top 20 teams.

How about Nova losing to Brown who’s RPI is dinged by a couple losses they wouldn’t have taken when they were down six senior starters including top SSDM, McLane and a few others.

[wgdsr]

Right, and RPI as it is at the moment for current resumes about who teams have beaten and, at the end of the year when it is used for selection, the final RPIs. You don't get credit for beating a "top 10" RPI team because they were #6 when you played them in week 2 but end up at #27.

I call BS.

It’s just wrong to use spot ratings with incomplete information. Point in time rankings or ratings nothing. No BS in what Pcow wrote he’s correct it’s kiddie mathematical understanding.

The one area that it would get gnarly in any assessment would be in the category of bad losses,
who you’ve beaten is another matter, its RPIs 1 through 20,
but bad losses is an odd measure - Loyola beat two top ten teams early, but they could end up with an RPI in the 25-30 range. Is that really a bad loss, teams in the 20-30 range aren’t really “bad” teams, they can and do beat top 20 teams.

The problem with bad losses is the way the tiers are used in practice. A loss to the #21 team should be slightly more damaging than a loss to the #20 team. And the difference between a loss to #22 should be slightly more damaging than a loss to the #21 team. But the way the tiers are used sometimes, that's not the case.

It seems very silly to me that we should assign so much more weight when a loss comes against a team that is just barely #21 in the RPI vs #20. In the same way, why is a win vs a top-5 RPI team so much more valuable than a win vs the number 6 RPI team. The 1-5 vs 6-10 vs 11-20 tiers muddle everything up so much that they should be scrapped immediately.

(Also, just throwing in my two cents; the idea of looking at your opponent's ranking at the time of the game is a very crazy idea and we should not do that.)

tiers is the dumbest thing about the entire "system".

"...I see, no method, at all........sir"


WHO, or WHOM.....does the "system" work for? (year, after year, after year )

Hope Bergeron IS ok and skates tonight, but professional sports that use winning percentages as a "system" are just dumb.

....if only someone had a formula that looked at OOC games, included in the rpi

they keep boosting those at large teams in the niffel playoffs, though... best comp because they play similar # of games.... and can't play everybody.

what is the bruins' rpi, anyway?

[runrussellrun]

Army, at 9-2, 6-0 in the Patriot league, a horrible conference full of horrible teams. (why independents like ACC avoid them, except for maybe Loyola.

If a "system" doesn't take into account OOC, what value is it, in the first place.

Sick world, when shoulders are shrugged, "it IS what it IS", and teams like Army, without the AQ, get left out.

Dudes.....th 80's is over....NO ONE cares about the Tar heels or Cuse/Hopkins juice.

again, if eye balls and tailgates in bucolic Connecticutt stadium lots ain't happening when High Point, Army, Maryland & Utah are playing.......we have a product problem.

Quinnapiac !

Anyone wanna guess the attendance for n$aa Frozen Four.

[wgdsr]

Army, at 9-2, 6-0 in the Patriot league, a horrible conference full of horrible teams. (why independents like ACC avoid them, except for maybe Loyola.

If a "system" doesn't take into account OOC, what value is it, in the first place.

Sick world, when shoulders are shrugged, "it IS what it IS", and teams like Army, without the AQ, get left out.

Dudes.....th 80's is over....NO ONE cares about the Tar heels or Cuse/Hopkins juice.

again, if eye balls and tailgates in bucolic Connecticutt stadium lots ain't happening when High Point, Army, Maryland & Utah are playing.......we have a product problem.

Quinnapiac !

Anyone wanna guess the attendance for n$aa Frozen Four.

my guy, the entire system is built on ooc.

fun fact... every single conference has the exact same intra-conference record (%) as every other one.

army's problem for ages has been their ooc scheduling. they make 'cuse lining up holy cross every year look like child's play.

[laxreference]

Army, at 9-2, 6-0 in the Patriot league, a horrible conference full of horrible teams. (why independents like ACC avoid them, except for maybe Loyola.

If a "system" doesn't take into account OOC, what value is it, in the first place.

Sick world, when shoulders are shrugged, "it IS what it IS", and teams like Army, without the AQ, get left out.

There's no reason that a system has to penalize Army or Patriot League teams (or anyone not in the Ivy/ACC/Big Ten).

Switch the RPI weighting from 25/50/25 to 40/50/10 (to credit teams for winning more than the current RPI does) and Army goes from the #21 RPI w/ the #16 Strength-of-Record to the #11 RPI w/ the #14 Strength-of-Record.

That's the difference between AQ-or-bust and firmly in the bubble conversation. We should be debating with the right system is, and trying to find one that satisfies everyone.

[runrussellrun]

Army, as history has shown us based on moronic math, can ONLY make the playoffs if they win the AQ. Huh....

Same for Binghamton, Vermont, Richmond, Utah, Deleware, Drexel, Hampton, UMBC, Sienna, Manhattan....even the Big East is a one bid league, unless the moronic math kicks Denver to the curb.

So, why not try new defensive schemes, like Loyola did, last night. YOU....the ones that love the "system", know this, in your heart of hearts, to be true. Losing by 1, or 11, matters not. Trying different players. Slide packages. Rides. etc.

Even good ole sandbagging.......you AIN'T gonna be invited without that Wonka Bar golden ticket...the AQ. Why not roll with some "different" stuff. Loyola, if they had beaten Cornell, wouldn't have mattered. Outcomes don't matter. results, neither. Just play teams with good records, .....got it.

guess using an rpi formula that only counts game in which you won......IS.....silly and dumb.

Syracuse's rpi wouldn't look so great, now would it, (8-27 = 50% of Cuses rpi, based on the 3 early season wins )


....and, do games against NON-n$aa eligible teams, like Merrimack, Hampton, etc. count for/against your "system". Should they? Weird, Furman didn't have a "waiting period" to gain n$aa entry. How did THAT happen

[wgdsr]

Army, as history has shown us based on moronic math, can ONLY make the playoffs if they win the AQ. Huh....

Same for Binghamton, Vermont, Richmond, Utah, Deleware, Drexel, Hampton, UMBC, Sienna, Manhattan....even the Big East is a one bid league, unless the moronic math kicks Denver to the curb.

So, why not try new defensive schemes, like Loyola did, last night. YOU....the ones that love the "system", know this, in your heart of hearts, to be true. Losing by 1, or 11, matters not. Trying different players. Slide packages. Rides. etc.

Even good ole sandbagging.......you AIN'T gonna be invited without that Wonka Bar golden ticket...the AQ. Why not roll with some "different" stuff. Loyola, if they had beaten Cornell, wouldn't have mattered. Outcomes don't matter. results, neither. Just play teams with good records, .....got it.

guess using an rpi formula that only counts game in which you won......IS.....silly and dumb.

Syracuse's rpi wouldn't look so great, now would it, (8-27 = 50% of Cuses rpi, based on the 3 early season wins )


....and, do games against NON-n$aa eligible teams, like Merrimack, Hampton, etc. count for/against your "system". Should they? Weird, Furman didn't have a "waiting period" to gain n$aa entry. How did THAT happen

can you name anyone here that likes the system?

how are those army wins vs hc, colgate, lafayette and bucknell, not to mention wagner and mercer? how do they do in your system with those 6 (out of 9) w's?

'cuse's hc and bonnies games are actually murdering their rpi right now.

about every patriot team's problem besides loyola is every year they already have 3 or 4 tackling dummies in the conference... and then they add 2 or 3 more. you can't do the latter. it's impossible to make a system that works for you if you:
- don't understand the system
- purposely disadvantage yourself

[runrussellrun]

Army, at 9-2, 6-0 in the Patriot league, a horrible conference full of horrible teams. (why independents like ACC avoid them, except for maybe Loyola.

If a "system" doesn't take into account OOC, what value is it, in the first place.

Sick world, when shoulders are shrugged, "it IS what it IS", and teams like Army, without the AQ, get left out.

There's no reason that a system has to penalize Army or Patriot League teams (or anyone not in the Ivy/ACC/Big Ten).

Switch the RPI weighting from 25/50/25 to 40/50/10 (to credit teams for winning more than the current RPI does) and Army goes from the #21 RPI w/ the #16 Strength-of-Record to the #11 RPI w/ the #14 Strength-of-Record.

That's the difference between AQ-or-bust and firmly in the bubble conversation. We should be debating with the right system is, and trying to find one that satisfies everyone.

for NON -AQ's, simple.

Winning % trumps any math formula derived, as long as win % is .15 points higher than any rpi/sos/qwf/666 charity case the laxmasons wanna throw into the tournament.

IE: Say Army keeps its current .818 winning percentage. That would mean, that NO team with a winning % below .668 can get an n$aa bid, over Army.

That would mean NO team, ranked ahead of Army in the rpi, excepting Villanova, could get bid, OVER, Army.

You wanna invite UPenn, with that awesome .500 record. ...instead of Army ? Sorry, Quint K.......do NOT accept this "is what it is" .

What it IS....is moronic.

Does the PLL use rpi/sos

[runrussellrun]

Army, at 9-2, 6-0 in the Patriot league, a horrible conference full of horrible teams. (why independents like ACC avoid them, except for maybe Loyola.

If a "system" doesn't take into account OOC, what value is it, in the first place.

Sick world, when shoulders are shrugged, "it IS what it IS", and teams like Army, without the AQ, get left out.

Dudes.....th 80's is over....NO ONE cares about the Tar heels or Cuse/Hopkins juice.

again, if eye balls and tailgates in bucolic Connecticutt stadium lots ain't happening when High Point, Army, Maryland & Utah are playing.......we have a product problem.

Quinnapiac !

Anyone wanna guess the attendance for n$aa Frozen Four.

my guy, the entire system is built on ooc. How so ?

fun fact... every single conference has the exact same intra-conference record (%) as every other one. yeah, and
army's problem for ages has been their ooc scheduling. they make 'cuse lining up holy cross every year look like child's play.

Army's problem is their not Hopkins.

[wgdsr]

Army, at 9-2, 6-0 in the Patriot league, a horrible conference full of horrible teams. (why independents like ACC avoid them, except for maybe Loyola.

If a "system" doesn't take into account OOC, what value is it, in the first place.

Sick world, when shoulders are shrugged, "it IS what it IS", and teams like Army, without the AQ, get left out.

Dudes.....th 80's is over....NO ONE cares about the Tar heels or Cuse/Hopkins juice.

again, if eye balls and tailgates in bucolic Connecticutt stadium lots ain't happening when High Point, Army, Maryland & Utah are playing.......we have a product problem.

Quinnapiac !

Anyone wanna guess the attendance for n$aa Frozen Four.

my guy, the entire system is built on ooc. How so ?

fun fact... every single conference has the exact same intra-conference record (%) as every other one. yeah, and
army's problem for ages has been their ooc scheduling. they make 'cuse lining up holy cross every year look like child's play.

Army's problem is their not Hopkins.

when was the last time hopkins was in the nc$$?

the how so answer is directly below the question.

[JeremyCuse]

Army, at 9-2, 6-0 in the Patriot league, a horrible conference full of horrible teams. (why independents like ACC avoid them, except for maybe Loyola.

If a "system" doesn't take into account OOC, what value is it, in the first place.

Sick world, when shoulders are shrugged, "it IS what it IS", and teams like Army, without the AQ, get left out.

Dudes.....th 80's is over....NO ONE cares about the Tar heels or Cuse/Hopkins juice.

again, if eye balls and tailgates in bucolic Connecticutt stadium lots ain't happening when High Point, Army, Maryland & Utah are playing.......we have a product problem.

Quinnapiac !

Anyone wanna guess the attendance for n$aa Frozen Four.

my guy, the entire system is built on ooc. How so ?

fun fact... every single conference has the exact same intra-conference record (%) as every other one. yeah, and
army's problem for ages has been their ooc scheduling. they make 'cuse lining up holy cross every year look like child's play.

Army's problem is their not Hopkins.

when was the last time hopkins was in the nc$$?

the how so answer is directly below the question.

Man he's like arguing with Lorin on steroids. I don't think it matters how many times you say it, he isn't gonna get it.

[runrussellrun]

the "getting" is easy.......

the "get out of here with that system".....

to be blunt....NO reason why lacrosse can't play more regular season games. The only entity stopping that is a monopoly, the n$aa, for whatever reason.

Who knows, maybe Hopkins or the Terps don't have the funds to play teams within a three hour drive, mid week.....but Utah flies all over the country.....got it.

...as long as we are concerned about "equity", "diversity" and "inclusion"........

[runrussellrun]

semi-s

Attendance:
19119
Location:
Tampa, Florida

Finals

Attendance:
19444
Location:
Tampa, Florida


somehow....the folks marketing LACROSSE.....just don't get that many just love the sport. Providence won recently too.

hockey isn't a niche sport, never was

yes, better for the sport, to keep the same names, over and over and over....for decades.

Because that 2010 Hopkins team was superior to so many others........proved it by losing by a record goal amount in the first round.

NO......we get it. The lacrosse Final Four will be lucky to get close to hockey's numbers, even without having to FLY to Florida, grab a hotel...yadda yadda.

What was last years attendance , watching the Terps roll?

exactly

[Matnum PI]

From where I'm sitting, you could just start the play-offs with the Quarters and I'd be content. Something like this:

Notre Dame vs. JHU... Winner plays UMD-PSU winner... Winner plays in Final
Virginia vs. G'town... Winner plays Duke-Cornell winner... Winner plays in Final
Duke vs. Cornell
Maryland vs. PSU

[ICGrad]

From where I'm sitting, you could just start the play-offs with the Quarters and I'd be content. Something like this:

more lacrosse > less lacrosse

always

[Matnum PI]

more lacrosse > less lacrosse

[CU77]

From where I'm sitting, you could just start the play-offs with the Quarters and I'd be content.

Gonna party like it's 1985

[wgdsr]

From where I'm sitting, you could just start the play-offs with the Quarters and I'd be content.

Gonna party like it's 1985

guy probably wants the semis at high seed and final at some random ivy league school, too.

[pcowlax]

Right, and RPI as it is at the moment for current resumes about who teams have beaten and, at the end of the year when it is used for selection, the final RPIs. You don't get credit for beating a "top 10" RPI team because they were #6 when you played them in week 2 but end up at #27.
[/qu
I call BS.

It’s just wrong to use spot ratings with incomplete information. Point in time rankings or ratings nothing. No BS in what Pcow wrote he’s correct it’s kiddie mathematical understanding.

Yeah, that is actually such a bad take it is pretty comical. No one looks at sports that way. This last year in hoops, UNC was the pre-season #1 ranked team. Near the beginning of the season, they lost 4 games in one week, dropped out of the rankings, never returned and weren't one of the 68 teams to make the tournament. Because they lost 4 games in a week, they were #1 when they played all of those teams, they hadn't had time to drop yet. At the end of the year, if those teams that beat them were jockeying to make the tournament, should they have been able to say as a selling point that they beat the #1 team in the country? Of course not (and they in fact don't, nor do lacrosse teams, RPI of opponents is based on final RPI). Rutgers doesn't get credit for a poor job by pre-season poll voters. Loyola caught lightening in a bottle in two early games. Otherwise, they stink. Rutgers shouldn't (and won't!) get any sort of credit or bump for having beaten them.

[notentitled]

Last year Delaware beat Georgetown. That game was exciting. I think it is fun the lower seeds give the big names a tough time. Bryant beating Syracuse comes to mind as well.

Lots of good players out there and it is fun to see them get a chance. Upsets are not that common, but when they do happen ...



Go Quakers.