All Things Russia & Ukraine

[old salt]

Meet the Donbass Devushka, courtesy of the WSJ.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/social-med ... s-a4b5643b

Social-Media Account Overseen by Former Navy Noncommissioned Officer Helped Spread Secrets
An American administrator of the Donbas Girl blogger network uses a pro-Russian persona across online platforms
April 16, 2023

A social-media account overseen by a former U.S. Navy noncommissioned officer—a prominent online voice supporting Russia’s war on Ukraine—played a key role in the spread of intelligence documents allegedly leaked by Airman First Class Jack Teixeira.

A purported Russian blogger known as Donbass Devushka, which translates as Donbas Girl, reposted the files from obscure online chat rooms. The blog is the face of a network of pro-Kremlin social-media, podcasting, merchandise and fundraising accounts. But the person who hosted podcasts as Donbass Devushka and oversees these accounts is a Washington-state-based former U.S. enlisted aviation electronics technician whose real name is Sarah Bils.

Russia first intervened in the Donbas part of eastern Ukraine in 2014, and most of the recent fighting has focused on that area.

Ms. Bils, 37 years old, served at the U.S. naval air station on Whidbey Island until late last year, even as the accounts she had established and supervised glorified the Russian military and the paramilitary Wagner Group. They are among the most widely followed English-language social-media outlets promoting Russia’s views.

In an interview Saturday at her home in Oak Harbor, Wash., Ms. Bils said she is an administrator of the Donbass Devushka persona, and acknowledged raising funds and hosting podcasts under that name. She added, however, that she is one of 15 people “all over the world” involved in running the Donbass Devushka network. Ms. Bils declined to identify these people.

On April 5, the Donbass Devushka Telegram account posted four of the allegedly leaked classified documents to its 65,000 followers, according to a screenshot seen by The Wall Street Journal. That led several large Russian social-media accounts to pick up on the documents, after which the Pentagon launched an investigation. Ms. Bils says another administrator posted the four files.

There is no evidence that Ms. Bils, who had a security clearance during her Navy service, has used that access to steal any classified information herself. “I obviously know the gravity of top-secret classified materials. We didn’t leak them,” she said.

Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder, a spokesman for the Pentagon, referred requests for comment on Ms. Bils and her role in reposting classified information to the Justice Department, which declined to comment.

In a statement in response to questions, Gen. Ryder said U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin has ordered a review of intelligence access, accountability and control procedures within the Pentagon to help prevent future leaks.

The U.S. Navy also declined to comment.

Airman Teixeira’s posts had languished online for months, shared among a small circle of fellow war and computer-game enthusiasts who had joined his invitation-only server on the Discord platform. Even after another member reposted the files to a larger Discord server, they remained unnoticed by the broader public. It was only after the posting of some of the files on Donbass Devushka’s account that they turned into fodder for military enthusiasts and Russia supporters across the internet. Several dozen other classified files have been found in Discord since then, mostly dealing with the war in Ukraine but also containing a variety of secrets about other nations.

Airman Teixeira was arraigned on Friday for unauthorized retention and transmission of classified documents he allegedly took from the U.S. military. Airman Teixeira didn’t enter a plea in his court appearance and a judge ordered him jailed until a detention hearing on Wednesday.

The federal public defender’s office in Boston didn’t respond to a request for comment. Airman Teixeira’s family members couldn’t be reached for comment.

The Donbass Devushka Telegram account that Ms. Bils oversees describes itself as engaging in “Russian–style information warfare.”

Linked accounts using the same name on other platforms also promoted the Russian agenda after Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine in February 2022. The Donbass Devushka network hawked merchandise featuring Wagner and the Russian military, promising to send proceeds for the “freedom of Donbass” and to help “our men on the front.”

Ms. Bils was promoted to the E-7 rank of chief aviation electronics technician in late 2020, a senior NCO position, according to promotion records posted on the Navy website and photographs of the ceremony on her former installation’s Facebook page. Ms. Bils left the military in November last year with an honorable discharge and with the lower rank of E-5, according to military records. The reason for that significant demotion couldn’t be immediately determined. Ms. Bils said she left the Navy for medical reasons, after suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.

“Some very interesting potential intel,” the Donbass Devushka Telegram account posted on April 5, attaching images of four files that Airman Teixeira allegedly stole from the U.S. military. “The authenticity cannot be confirmed but looks to be very damning nato information.” The post remained online for several days.

Ms. Bils said that another administrator had posted these images, and that she was the one who later deleted them. “I don’t even know the authenticity of the documents or what they say. I am not very well versed in reading documents like that,” she said.

In addition to the Telegram account, established a year ago, the Donbass Devushka persona operates popular accounts on Twitter, YouTube, Spotify and other platforms. The Twitter account has been in existence since 2012.

Some of the slides reposted on the Telegram account overseen by Ms. Bils had been altered from the otherwise identical photographs allegedly posted by Airman Teixeira on Discord—changed to inflate Ukrainian losses and play down Russian casualties. A subsequent post on the Donbass Devushka Telegram channel, on April 12, denied that the image had been doctored by the administrators.

“We would never edit content for our viewers,” the post said.

Ms. Bils has recorded podcasts with guests advocating for Russian President Vladimir Putin and opposing U.S. aid to Ukraine, according to a review of the podcast content. As a podcast host, Ms. Bils, originally from New Jersey, spoke with a slight Russian accent and claimed to have been born in Luhansk, in the Russian-controlled Donbas. In an interview, Ms. Bils said she had “some” Russian heritage, without providing details.

Rachel Stevens, a former Navy colleague who worked at the Naval Air Station Whidbey Island with Ms. Bils, said a person in Ms. Bils’s position and rank would have typically held a top-secret clearance because she worked on sensitive avionics. Whidbey Island is the main naval aviation installation in the Pacific Northwest, and is home to all Navy tactical electronic attack squadrons flying the EA-18G Growler, in addition to eight squadrons of P-3 Orion, P-8 Poseidon and EP-3E Aries patrol and reconnaissance aircraft, according to the U.S. Navy website.

No evidence has emerged that anybody associated with Donbass Devushka played a role in Airman Teixeira’s alleged theft and posting of government secrets.

On Saturday, Ms. Bils said she doesn’t have access to classified information anymore.

Ms. Stevens, a photo of whom in a Navy uniform can be seen on the Facebook page of the Whidbey Island facility, said she worked with Ms. Bils in the same room in 2018-2020, before leaving military service. Ms. Stevens said she realized that her former colleague had “started this faux Russian persona online and asking for donations” after Donbass Devushka followed her small Twitter account.

The fact that Donbass Devushka isn’t a Russian from Donbas, as she presented herself online, but an American residing in Washington state, was first disclosed by pro-Ukrainian online open-source intelligence analysts and activists known as NAFO.

One of them, Pekka Kallioniemi, a fellow at the University of Tampere in Finland, posted on Saturday a series of tweets outlining the evidence, including the matching birth date of Ms. Bils in official documents and Donbass Devushka’s online solicitation of birthday donations.

The Donbass Devushka network has become a significant part of the pro-Russian war propaganda campaign, Mr. Kallioniemi said: “They were definitely one of the fastest growing English language, pro-Russian communities.”

Ms. Bils said in the interview that she doesn’t hate Ukraine or Ukrainians, and that she has long been interested in Eastern Europe. She added that it was “hypocritical” for the International Criminal Court to charge Mr. Putin with war crimes.

The Donbass Devushka Telegram account remains active, posting this weekend a video of a bear stretching and describing the governor of a Ukrainian region with the Nazi term “gauleiter,” for a top regional official. Addressing the NAFO campaign, the Donbass Devushka account posted an item referring to herself Saturday on Twitter and Telegram as “a woman who is proud of being Russian and Jewish, and of the country and its people.”

In a post soliciting funds and noting a bitcoin wallet number on another platform, Donbass Devushka describes itself as “a group of dedicated individuals.”

Another post, in September, announced a partnership with Rybar, a Russian open-source intelligence channel on Telegram with more than a million followers. In December, Rybar’s chief editor, former Russian ministry of defense press officer Mikhail Zvinchuk, became one of Mr. Putin’s advisers on mobilization.

A now-deactivated MyShopOnline page, linked in a post on the Donbass Devushka Telegram account, shows merchandise for sale as part of a partnership with Rybar, a Russian open-source intelligence channel on Telegram, in addition to other merchandise.
All the proceeds from the sale of Rybar-branded merchandise will go toward “efforts to help our men on the front,” according to a screenshot of the Donbass Devushka post. The linked page on the website MyShopOnline has since been removed.

Donating to the Russian military, a sanctioned entity in the U.S., is illegal. Asked in an interview whether she sent funds to Russia, Ms. Bils said she used the proceeds to fund the operations of the Donbass Devushka platforms, including buying podcast equipment for another administrator, and sent money to charities in Serbia, Pakistan, Somalia, Syria and Palestinian territories. She added that she has raised only a “small” amount.

An archived version of the Donbass Devushka page on MyShopOnline shows merchandise praising Mr. Putin and Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov, and items with the “Z” symbol of the Russian invasion. The main image of the “For Fun” section is a redheaded woman in a Russian uniform pointing a finger at a submissive pig.

The Discord group where the classified files were originally leaked was called “Bears versus Pigs,” in line with Russian memes depicting Ukrainians as hapless pigs being slaughtered by the mighty Russian bear.

[DocBarrister]

Meet the Donbass Devushka, courtesy of the WSJ.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/social-med ... s-a4b5643b

Social-Media Account Overseen by Former Navy Noncommissioned Officer Helped Spread Secrets
An American administrator of the Donbas Girl blogger network uses a pro-Russian persona across online platforms
April 16, 2023

A social-media account overseen by a former U.S. Navy noncommissioned officer—a prominent online voice supporting Russia’s war on Ukraine—played a key role in the spread of intelligence documents allegedly leaked by Airman First Class Jack Teixeira.

A purported Russian blogger known as Donbass Devushka, which translates as Donbas Girl, reposted the files from obscure online chat rooms. The blog is the face of a network of pro-Kremlin social-media, podcasting, merchandise and fundraising accounts. But the person who hosted podcasts as Donbass Devushka and oversees these accounts is a Washington-state-based former U.S. enlisted aviation electronics technician whose real name is Sarah Bils.

Russia first intervened in the Donbas part of eastern Ukraine in 2014, and most of the recent fighting has focused on that area.

Ms. Bils, 37 years old, served at the U.S. naval air station on Whidbey Island until late last year, even as the accounts she had established and supervised glorified the Russian military and the paramilitary Wagner Group. They are among the most widely followed English-language social-media outlets promoting Russia’s views.

In an interview Saturday at her home in Oak Harbor, Wash., Ms. Bils said she is an administrator of the Donbass Devushka persona, and acknowledged raising funds and hosting podcasts under that name. She added, however, that she is one of 15 people “all over the world” involved in running the Donbass Devushka network. Ms. Bils declined to identify these people.

On April 5, the Donbass Devushka Telegram account posted four of the allegedly leaked classified documents to its 65,000 followers, according to a screenshot seen by The Wall Street Journal. That led several large Russian social-media accounts to pick up on the documents, after which the Pentagon launched an investigation. Ms. Bils says another administrator posted the four files.

There is no evidence that Ms. Bils, who had a security clearance during her Navy service, has used that access to steal any classified information herself. “I obviously know the gravity of top-secret classified materials. We didn’t leak them,” she said.

Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder, a spokesman for the Pentagon, referred requests for comment on Ms. Bils and her role in reposting classified information to the Justice Department, which declined to comment.

In a statement in response to questions, Gen. Ryder said U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin has ordered a review of intelligence access, accountability and control procedures within the Pentagon to help prevent future leaks.

The U.S. Navy also declined to comment.

Airman Teixeira’s posts had languished online for months, shared among a small circle of fellow war and computer-game enthusiasts who had joined his invitation-only server on the Discord platform. Even after another member reposted the files to a larger Discord server, they remained unnoticed by the broader public. It was only after the posting of some of the files on Donbass Devushka’s account that they turned into fodder for military enthusiasts and Russia supporters across the internet. Several dozen other classified files have been found in Discord since then, mostly dealing with the war in Ukraine but also containing a variety of secrets about other nations.

Airman Teixeira was arraigned on Friday for unauthorized retention and transmission of classified documents he allegedly took from the U.S. military. Airman Teixeira didn’t enter a plea in his court appearance and a judge ordered him jailed until a detention hearing on Wednesday.

The federal public defender’s office in Boston didn’t respond to a request for comment. Airman Teixeira’s family members couldn’t be reached for comment.

The Donbass Devushka Telegram account that Ms. Bils oversees describes itself as engaging in “Russian–style information warfare.”

Linked accounts using the same name on other platforms also promoted the Russian agenda after Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine in February 2022. The Donbass Devushka network hawked merchandise featuring Wagner and the Russian military, promising to send proceeds for the “freedom of Donbass” and to help “our men on the front.”

Ms. Bils was promoted to the E-7 rank of chief aviation electronics technician in late 2020, a senior NCO position, according to promotion records posted on the Navy website and photographs of the ceremony on her former installation’s Facebook page. Ms. Bils left the military in November last year with an honorable discharge and with the lower rank of E-5, according to military records. The reason for that significant demotion couldn’t be immediately determined. Ms. Bils said she left the Navy for medical reasons, after suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.

“Some very interesting potential intel,” the Donbass Devushka Telegram account posted on April 5, attaching images of four files that Airman Teixeira allegedly stole from the U.S. military. “The authenticity cannot be confirmed but looks to be very damning nato information.” The post remained online for several days.

Ms. Bils said that another administrator had posted these images, and that she was the one who later deleted them. “I don’t even know the authenticity of the documents or what they say. I am not very well versed in reading documents like that,” she said.

In addition to the Telegram account, established a year ago, the Donbass Devushka persona operates popular accounts on Twitter, YouTube, Spotify and other platforms. The Twitter account has been in existence since 2012.

Some of the slides reposted on the Telegram account overseen by Ms. Bils had been altered from the otherwise identical photographs allegedly posted by Airman Teixeira on Discord—changed to inflate Ukrainian losses and play down Russian casualties. A subsequent post on the Donbass Devushka Telegram channel, on April 12, denied that the image had been doctored by the administrators.

“We would never edit content for our viewers,” the post said.

Ms. Bils has recorded podcasts with guests advocating for Russian President Vladimir Putin and opposing U.S. aid to Ukraine, according to a review of the podcast content. As a podcast host, Ms. Bils, originally from New Jersey, spoke with a slight Russian accent and claimed to have been born in Luhansk, in the Russian-controlled Donbas. In an interview, Ms. Bils said she had “some” Russian heritage, without providing details.

Rachel Stevens, a former Navy colleague who worked at the Naval Air Station Whidbey Island with Ms. Bils, said a person in Ms. Bils’s position and rank would have typically held a top-secret clearance because she worked on sensitive avionics. Whidbey Island is the main naval aviation installation in the Pacific Northwest, and is home to all Navy tactical electronic attack squadrons flying the EA-18G Growler, in addition to eight squadrons of P-3 Orion, P-8 Poseidon and EP-3E Aries patrol and reconnaissance aircraft, according to the U.S. Navy website.

No evidence has emerged that anybody associated with Donbass Devushka played a role in Airman Teixeira’s alleged theft and posting of government secrets.

On Saturday, Ms. Bils said she doesn’t have access to classified information anymore.

Ms. Stevens, a photo of whom in a Navy uniform can be seen on the Facebook page of the Whidbey Island facility, said she worked with Ms. Bils in the same room in 2018-2020, before leaving military service. Ms. Stevens said she realized that her former colleague had “started this faux Russian persona online and asking for donations” after Donbass Devushka followed her small Twitter account.

The fact that Donbass Devushka isn’t a Russian from Donbas, as she presented herself online, but an American residing in Washington state, was first disclosed by pro-Ukrainian online open-source intelligence analysts and activists known as NAFO.

One of them, Pekka Kallioniemi, a fellow at the University of Tampere in Finland, posted on Saturday a series of tweets outlining the evidence, including the matching birth date of Ms. Bils in official documents and Donbass Devushka’s online solicitation of birthday donations.

The Donbass Devushka network has become a significant part of the pro-Russian war propaganda campaign, Mr. Kallioniemi said: “They were definitely one of the fastest growing English language, pro-Russian communities.”

Ms. Bils said in the interview that she doesn’t hate Ukraine or Ukrainians, and that she has long been interested in Eastern Europe. She added that it was “hypocritical” for the International Criminal Court to charge Mr. Putin with war crimes.

The Donbass Devushka Telegram account remains active, posting this weekend a video of a bear stretching and describing the governor of a Ukrainian region with the Nazi term “gauleiter,” for a top regional official. Addressing the NAFO campaign, the Donbass Devushka account posted an item referring to herself Saturday on Twitter and Telegram as “a woman who is proud of being Russian and Jewish, and of the country and its people.”

In a post soliciting funds and noting a bitcoin wallet number on another platform, Donbass Devushka describes itself as “a group of dedicated individuals.”

Another post, in September, announced a partnership with Rybar, a Russian open-source intelligence channel on Telegram with more than a million followers. In December, Rybar’s chief editor, former Russian ministry of defense press officer Mikhail Zvinchuk, became one of Mr. Putin’s advisers on mobilization.

A now-deactivated MyShopOnline page, linked in a post on the Donbass Devushka Telegram account, shows merchandise for sale as part of a partnership with Rybar, a Russian open-source intelligence channel on Telegram, in addition to other merchandise.
All the proceeds from the sale of Rybar-branded merchandise will go toward “efforts to help our men on the front,” according to a screenshot of the Donbass Devushka post. The linked page on the website MyShopOnline has since been removed.

Donating to the Russian military, a sanctioned entity in the U.S., is illegal. Asked in an interview whether she sent funds to Russia, Ms. Bils said she used the proceeds to fund the operations of the Donbass Devushka platforms, including buying podcast equipment for another administrator, and sent money to charities in Serbia, Pakistan, Somalia, Syria and Palestinian territories. She added that she has raised only a “small” amount.

An archived version of the Donbass Devushka page on MyShopOnline shows merchandise praising Mr. Putin and Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov, and items with the “Z” symbol of the Russian invasion. The main image of the “For Fun” section is a redheaded woman in a Russian uniform pointing a finger at a submissive pig.

The Discord group where the classified files were originally leaked was called “Bears versus Pigs,” in line with Russian memes depicting Ukrainians as hapless pigs being slaughtered by the mighty Russian bear.

Ah, a fellow Russian propagandist with ties to the U.S. Navy.

DocBarrister

[old salt]

Meet the Donbass Devushka, courtesy of the WSJ.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/social-med ... s-a4b5643b

Social-Media Account Overseen by Former Navy Noncommissioned Officer Helped Spread Secrets

Ms. Bils was promoted to the E-7 rank of chief aviation electronics technician in late 2020, a senior NCO position, according to promotion records posted on the Navy website and photographs of the ceremony on her former installation’s Facebook page. Ms. Bils left the military in November last year with an honorable discharge and with the lower rank of E-5, according to military records. The reason for that significant demotion couldn’t be immediately determined. Ms. Bils said she left the Navy for medical reasons, after suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.

Ah, a fellow Russian propagandist with ties to the U.S. Navy.

DocBarrister

She had a pretty good career going until going off the deep end.
Promoted to Chief Petty Officer (E-7) in late 2020, after 11 years of service.
Then "busted" to E-5 before honorably discharged in Nov 22.
PTSD from deploying on an aircraft carrier? Interesting story in there somewhere.

https://twitter.com/PeImeniPusha/status ... 65/video/1

Russian propaganda ? These leaks showed how much the Biden Admin has been gaslighting the progress of the war & the status of the Ukrainians. They're almost out of SAMs, before the long awaited spring offensive even begins.

[MDlaxfan76]

Meet the Donbass Devushka, courtesy of the WSJ.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/social-med ... s-a4b5643b

Social-Media Account Overseen by Former Navy Noncommissioned Officer Helped Spread Secrets

Ms. Bils was promoted to the E-7 rank of chief aviation electronics technician in late 2020, a senior NCO position, according to promotion records posted on the Navy website and photographs of the ceremony on her former installation’s Facebook page. Ms. Bils left the military in November last year with an honorable discharge and with the lower rank of E-5, according to military records. The reason for that significant demotion couldn’t be immediately determined. Ms. Bils said she left the Navy for medical reasons, after suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.

Ah, a fellow Russian propagandist with ties to the U.S. Navy.

DocBarrister

She had a pretty good career going until going off the deep end.
Promoted to Chief Petty Officer (E-7) in late 2020, after 11 years of service.
Then "busted" to E-5 before honorably discharged in Nov 22.
PTSD from deploying on an aircraft carrier? Interesting story in there somewhere.

https://twitter.com/PeImeniPusha/status ... 65/video/1

Russian propaganda ? These leaks showed how much the Biden Admin has been gaslighting the progress of the war & the status of the Ukrainians. They're almost out of SAMs, before the long awaited spring offensive even begins.

First, this is yet another example of why the military should be much better vetting its people for potential extremist views, whether domestic or foreign.

Yes, "PTSD" may well be an interesting "story". And why the demotion? These sorts of issues of extremist views?? Others? Agreed, interesting.

Second, you've been posting repeatedly the statements of the Biden Admin warning that this is going to be a long fight, likely to be mired in stalemate much of the time. That doesn't seem like gaslighting that all is hunky dory.

Similarly the Ukrainians have been saying they need more ammo, better weapon systems, in order to push Russia out.

The Russian propaganda element is to suggest that the war be stopped with Russia successful having taken 20% of Ukraine, so why send them more weapons which just extend the fighting?...that's Russian propaganda.

[old salt]

The Russian propaganda element is to suggest that the war be stopped with Russia successful having taken 20% of Ukraine, so why send them more weapons which just extend the fighting?...that's Russian propaganda.

...or a reasonable question which has not yet been adequately & openly addressed in a public debate by our elected leaders.

Gen Milley's been the lone voice of reason amidst the happy talk from the rest of the Biden Admin.
SecDef Austin has been subdued, limiting his remarks mostly to raising arms donations from NATO allies.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The Russian propaganda element is to suggest that the war be stopped with Russia successful having taken 20% of Ukraine, so why send them more weapons which just extend the fighting?...that's Russian propaganda.

...or a reasonable question which has not yet been adequately & openly addressed in a public debate by our elected leaders.

Gen Milley's been the lone voice of reason amidst the happy talk from the rest of the Biden Admin.
SecDef Austin has been subdued, limiting his remarks mostly to raising arms donations from NATO allies.

[MDlaxfan76]

The Russian propaganda element is to suggest that the war be stopped with Russia successful having taken 20% of Ukraine, so why send them more weapons which just extend the fighting?...that's Russian propaganda.

...or a reasonable question which has not yet been adequately & openly addressed in a public debate by our elected leaders.

Gen Milley's been the lone voice of reason amidst the happy talk from the rest of the Biden Admin.
SecDef Austin has been subdued, limiting his remarks mostly to raising arms donations from NATO allies.

and where would this "public debate" be held and who would participate, "openly" ???

For a military guy, you sure seem to have no clue about this sort of thing.

Lots of talking heads have discussed this "question", nearly all of whom thought there was no chance Ukraine would stand up to Russia at all, and many of whom have been openly apologists for Putin's aggression.

And of course, there are those like Hungary's Foreign Minister who I saw last night on BBC "Hard Talk"...it was obvious that the big issue is their dependence on Russian energy, and thus the strategic choice to stay close to Putin rather than do as the rest of the EU did of moving hard away from dependence this past year. Their posture is they want peace, even if that means Russia is successful with taking 20% (for now), despite their other posture that Ukraine's sovereignty should be respected. BS. We know why Orban is close to Putin.

More than enough "debate".

And yes Milley, as well as Austin, (And Biden and Blinken too) have publicly, openly, cautioned to not expect a short fight...but Milley and Austin have also both, publicly, openly, advocated for more ammo, more systems, for Ukraine. Not the opposite... which is what the Russian's want so that they can seize more, kill more, of Ukraine.

[old salt]

The Russian propaganda element is to suggest that the war be stopped with Russia successful having taken 20% of Ukraine, so why send them more weapons which just extend the fighting?...that's Russian propaganda.

...or a reasonable question which has not yet been adequately & openly addressed in a public debate by our elected leaders.

Gen Milley's been the lone voice of reason amidst the happy talk from the rest of the Biden Admin.
SecDef Austin has been subdued, limiting his remarks mostly to raising arms donations from NATO allies.

and where would this "public debate" be held and who would participate, "openly" ???

For a military guy, you sure seem to have no clue about this sort of thing.

Lots of talking heads have discussed this "question", nearly all of whom thought there was no chance Ukraine would stand up to Russia at all, and many of whom have been openly apologists for Putin's aggression.

And of course, there are those like Hungary's Foreign Minister who I saw last night on BBC "Hard Talk"...it was obvious that the big issue is their dependence on Russian energy, and thus the strategic choice to stay close to Putin rather than do as the rest of the EU did of moving hard away from dependence this past year. Their posture is they want peace, even if that means Russia is successful with taking 20% (for now), despite their other posture that Ukraine's sovereignty should be respected. BS. We know why Orban is close to Putin.

More than enough "debate".

And yes Milley, as well as Austin, (And Biden and Blinken too) have publicly, openly, cautioned to not expect a short fight...but Milley and Austin have also both, publicly, openly, advocated for more ammo, more systems, for Ukraine. Not the opposite... which is what the Russian's want so that they can seize more, kill more, of Ukraine.

For an undertaking of this magnitude, with these long term implications, there's been woefully little public debate between our elected leaders, with limited indications of where this is heading. Just announcements of the next tranche of billions in military & financial aid, punctuated by undeniable reports of our dwindling war stocks & inability to replenish them, while our shortfall & time lag in delivering to Taiwan the arms sales already under contract becomes more alarming.

Very little has been done to rally US public support. Biden's most significant speech on the war was in Poland to rally NATO.
When does the CinC address the US public on our commitment to this war ? Howgozit updates ?
Incoherent responses to shouted questions are not exactly fireside chats.
The Biden Admin is soft peddling this war & giving us the mushroom treatment.

Biden's rallying the Irish on the war ? To what end ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7hBIssQaA
55 mm Euros in non-lethal aid, laundered through an EU fund.

[MDlaxfan76]

The Russian propaganda element is to suggest that the war be stopped with Russia successful having taken 20% of Ukraine, so why send them more weapons which just extend the fighting?...that's Russian propaganda.

...or a reasonable question which has not yet been adequately & openly addressed in a public debate by our elected leaders.

Gen Milley's been the lone voice of reason amidst the happy talk from the rest of the Biden Admin.
SecDef Austin has been subdued, limiting his remarks mostly to raising arms donations from NATO allies.

and where would this "public debate" be held and who would participate, "openly" ???

For a military guy, you sure seem to have no clue about this sort of thing.

Lots of talking heads have discussed this "question", nearly all of whom thought there was no chance Ukraine would stand up to Russia at all, and many of whom have been openly apologists for Putin's aggression.

And of course, there are those like Hungary's Foreign Minister who I saw last night on BBC "Hard Talk"...it was obvious that the big issue is their dependence on Russian energy, and thus the strategic choice to stay close to Putin rather than do as the rest of the EU did of moving hard away from dependence this past year. Their posture is they want peace, even if that means Russia is successful with taking 20% (for now), despite their other posture that Ukraine's sovereignty should be respected. BS. We know why Orban is close to Putin.

More than enough "debate".

And yes Milley, as well as Austin, (And Biden and Blinken too) have publicly, openly, cautioned to not expect a short fight...but Milley and Austin have also both, publicly, openly, advocated for more ammo, more systems, for Ukraine. Not the opposite... which is what the Russian's want so that they can seize more, kill more, of Ukraine.

For an undertaking of this magnitude, with these long term implications, there's been woefully little public debate between our elected leaders, with limited indications of where this is heading. Just announcements of the next tranche of billions in military & financial aid, punctuated by undeniable reports of our dwindling war stocks & inability to replenish them, while our shortfall & time lag in delivering to Taiwan the arms sales already under contract becomes more alarming.

Very little has been done to rally US public support. Biden's most significant speech on the war was in Poland to rally NATO.
When does the CinC address the US public on our commitment to this war ? Howgozit updates ?
Incoherent responses to shouted questions are not exactly fireside chats.
The Biden Admin is soft peddling this war & giving us the mushroom treatment.

Biden's rallying the Irish on the war ? To what end ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa7hBIssQaA

who the F do you want to do this public, open debate "between our elected leaders"???

MTG?

Who else is willing to say that we should not have stepped up to support Ukraine and should have instead withheld weapons so that the 'war would end faster'???

Step up if that's what they actually think...but hey, I'm sure there are some.
Want to take it to the Senate floor? Have at it.

There are indeed looney tunes and Russian lackeys and apologists out there aplenty. You could probably get someone like Ron Johnson or Rand Paul...they've certainly done so in the media.

I listened to the YouTube of Biden in Ireland. The next one up started playing...yikes!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-AuM9N93J8

[old salt]

Who else is willing to say that we should not have stepped up to support Ukraine and should have instead withheld weapons so that the 'war would end faster'???

Step up if that's what they actually think...but hey, I'm sure there are some.
Want to take it to the Senate floor? Have at it.

There are indeed looney tunes and Russian lackeys and apologists out there aplenty. You could probably get someone like Ron Johnson or Rand Paul...they've certainly done so in the media.

I listened to the YouTube of Biden in Ireland. The next one up started playing...yikes!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-AuM9N93J8

...that's based on your viewing habits.

JD Vance & Josh Hawley for two.
Before you dismiss them with snark, read what they have to say.
They're very popular in their states.
https://www.wlwt.com/article/bear-break ... a/43637331
https://www.hawley.senate.gov/hawley-de ... time-truth
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/wheres- ... find-truth

The intel leaks exposed the panic within DoD over our low inventory of, & production capacity for, air defense systems & munitions.
We're structured for force protection of our deployed forces, not for providing, on short notice, for the air defense of not one, but two under-equipped countries vs 2 of the worlds largest Air Forces & missile inventories.

[NattyBohChamps04]

42% approval rating is now "very popular"

[old salt]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/01/us/p ... biden.html

Biden Challenged by Softening Public Support for Arming Ukraine
Proponents of more aid fear that growing taxpayer fatigue toward shipping tens of billions of dollars overseas could undercut the war effort.

By Peter Baker, March 1, 2023

WASHINGTON — When he made his surprise wartime trip to the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv last week, President Biden reassured that country with great confidence that “the Americans stand with you.” But the question that remains unanswered is: For how long?

For all of the president’s bravado while he was abroad, the politics of Ukraine back home in the United States are shifting noticeably and, for the White House, worryingly. Polls show public support for arming the Ukrainians softening while the two leading Republican presidential candidates are increasingly speaking out against involvement in the war.

While the bipartisan coalition in Congress favoring Ukraine has been strong in the year since Russia’s invasion, supporters of more aid fear the centrifugal forces of the emerging presidential contest and growing taxpayer fatigue with shipping tens of billions of dollars overseas may undercut the war effort before Moscow can be defeated. And some of them are frustrated that Mr. Biden has not done more to shore up support.

The evolving dynamics were on full display this week when House Republicans, exercising the power of their new majority, pressed Pentagon officials at two hearings about spending on Ukraine, grilling them about where the money is going and vowing to hold them accountable. Despite Mr. Biden’s pledge, the Ukrainian government has grown concerned enough that President Volodymyr Zelensky is trying to set up a telephone call with Speaker Kevin McCarthy to make his country’s case.

Overall, public support for Ukraine aid has fallen from 60 percent last May to 48 percent now, according to surveys by The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research. The share of Americans who think the United States has given too much to Ukraine has grown from 7 percent a year ago to 26 percent last month, according to the Pew Research Center.

And even supporters make clear their commitment is not without bounds. While 50 percent of those surveyed by Fox News said American support should continue for “as long as it takes to win,” 46 percent said the time frame should be limited.

“It’s this way with every foreign intervention,” said Andy Surabian, a Republican strategist who has advised two outspoken Republican voices against Ukraine aid, Senator J.D. Vance of Ohio and Donald Trump Jr. “In the first few months, it’s always popular. People don’t like what Russia did; it’s awful. But as time goes on, war weariness is a real thing, especially in this country, especially when voters aren’t connecting what’s happening in Ukraine with their own security.”

Although skepticism of Ukraine aid has grown on both sides of the aisle, the party breakdown has been striking. According to Pew, 40 percent of Republicans think too much has been given compared with 15 percent of Democrats. The good news for Mr. Biden is that Americans have grown more supportive of his handling of the war, with 48 percent approving of his response to the invasion in the Fox poll compared with 40 percent in August.

While Mr. Biden used his visit to Kyiv and a follow-up stop in Warsaw to express solidarity with the Ukrainians, he has talked less about the war to fellow Americans while at home. He made a relatively passing reference to the war during his State of the Union address and has focused mainly on domestic priorities in recent campaign-style stops around the country. In part, that may be intended to deflect criticism that he cares more about foreigners than Americans.

Aides said Mr. Biden’s speeches in Kyiv and Warsaw were intended for an American audience as well as international ones. But the president has shrugged off concerns about ebbing public support for the Ukraine supply effort, suggesting it is relegated mainly to what he calls MAGA Republicans, after former President Donald J. Trump’s Make America Great Again slogan.

The State of the War

Pentagon Leaks: In the leaked U.S. intelligence documents, Ukraine’s predicament looks dire. But some in Kyiv welcomed the disclosures as confirming what they have been saying for months — that its forces desperately need more weapons and munitions.

When David Muir of ABC News noted in an interview last week that many Americans were asking how long they could keep spending on Ukraine, the president quarreled with the premise. “I’m not sure how many are asking that,” Mr. Biden said. “I know the MAGA crowd is. The right-wing Republicans are talking about, we can’t do this. We find ourselves in a situation where the cost of walking away could be considerably higher than the cost of helping Ukraine maintain its independence.”

John F. Kirby, a spokesman for the National Security Council, said support remains powerful in Congress itself. “Yes, there are a small number of members on Capitol Hill, in the House Republicans specifically, that have expressed publicly their concerns about support for Ukraine,” he said at a recent briefing. “But if you talk to the House leadership, you won’t hear that. And you certainly aren’t going to hear it on the Democratic side. And you don’t hear it in the Senate.”

Indeed, Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader, and key House Republicans like Representative Michael McCaul of Texas, chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee, have pushed Mr. Biden from the other side, arguing that the president is not doing enough for Ukraine. Mr. McCaul took a congressional delegation to Kyiv shortly after Mr. Biden, emphasizing bipartisan support.

But Mr. McCarthy, who during last fall’s campaign said there would be no “blank check” for Ukraine in a Republican House, is under pressure from a small but vocal part of his caucus critical of American involvement in the war and encouraged by Fox’s Tucker Carlson. With a razor-thin working majority, it is not clear whether he would allow another robust aid package to come to the floor for a vote and if so under what conditions, which is why Mr. Zelensky wants to talk, as was reported by Punchbowl News.

Among those pushing Mr. McCarthy to block future aid is Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, the former QAnon adherent who has become a key ally since helping him win the speakership. Speaking to Just the News, a conservative website, this week, Ms. Greene said she opposed the war in Ukraine. “But you know who’s driving it?” she asked. “It’s America. America needs to stop pushing the war in Ukraine.”

While she and her allies have been on the margins of the Republican Party on Ukraine, the center of gravity may be shifting. Mr. Trump lashed out at Mr. Biden last week for visiting Kyiv instead of East Palestine, Ohio, the site of a recent toxic train derailment. In a fund-raising video, Mr. Trump said, “we’re teetering on the brink of World War III” thanks to Mr. Biden and promised to “end the Ukraine conflict in 24 hours.”

Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida, his most formidable potential challenger for the 2024 nomination, sought to match Mr. Trump, criticizing what he called the “open-ended blank check” for Ukraine and saying “I don’t think it’s in our interest” to be involved in the fight for territory seized by Russia.

By contrast, the announced and unannounced Republican presidential candidates who do support aid to Ukraine, like former Vice President Mike Pence and Nikki Haley, the former ambassador to the United Nations, trail far behind those two front-runners.

Mr. Surabian said a rematch between Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump would sharpen the nation’s debate over Ukraine. “If Donald Trump is the nominee, I 100 percent expect him to prosecute the case against Biden directly on the Ukraine issue,” he said. “I think this will become a centerpiece issue between him and Biden.”

So far, Congress has approved $113 billion in military, economic, humanitarian and other aid for Ukraine, not all of which has been spent yet. Anticipating trouble from the new Republican House, the White House and lame-duck Democratic majority last winter pushed through an aid package large enough to last until summer. At the current rate of spending, it would run out by mid-July, according to the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

A House Democrat who asked not to be identified speaking critically of the White House expressed concern that the president’s team did not fully grasp how Americans viewed the aid. While they support Ukraine in principle, this Democrat said, the way the aid has been doled out through a steady drumbeat of announcements of another $500 million or $1 billion every week or two exacerbates the sense that endless funds are heading out of the country.

Philip D. Zelikow, a University of Virginia scholar and former State Department counselor, said military aid was more popular than economic aid because much of it is actually spent on arms produced by American defense firms. But he said that economic aid was critical to rebuilding Ukraine, and he argued that seizing $300 billion in Russian assets in the West for reconstruction would ease the burden on the American taxpayer.

“I’m critical of the administration because it did not start moving at least six months ago to design a more sustainable and hopeful strategy on what will likely be the decisive battlefield of the war,” he said.

Still, some government veterans said there is only so much Mr. Biden can do to preserve public support since the most pronounced erosion has been on the Republican side.

“President Biden probably has limited ability to reach the Republican audiences that are most in play,” said Peter D. Feaver, a Duke University professor who has studied the relationship between public opinion and military operations and advised President George W. Bush during the Iraq War. “He has a daunting but perhaps doable task to keep his left flank on board.”

The uncertainty about whether Mr. McCarthy’s House will approve further aid may influence how Mr. Biden spends the money already allocated as Ukraine and its supporters press for more expensive, high-powered weaponry that would drain the existing funds and force a new vote earlier.

“If you add Patriots, F-16s, long-range missiles and all these other things to the mix, then by definition the moment of truth comes sooner,” said former Representative Tom Malinowski, Democrat of New Jersey and a strong supporter of Ukraine. “And I’m not sure if the proponents of those things on the Hill have a plan yet to overcome the inevitable MAGA resistance in the House. And if they don’t, it’s logical for Biden to husband the resources that he has and focus on the things that Ukraine needs the most, like ammunition.”

Others like Andrea Kendall-Taylor, a senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security, said the uncertainty is all the more reason for the president to be aggressive and help the Ukrainians win the war sooner before public support fades further.

“The problem is that the longer the war continues, the greater the risk that U.S. resolve will wane, no matter how much effort the president puts into convincing Americans to stay the course,” she said. “That’s why it’s so critical that the United States lean in now and help Ukraine end things militarily.”

She added, “If U.S. support wanes over time, it is quite possible that we end up in the worst possible world in which Russia snatches a victory from the jaws of defeat.”

[MDlaxfan76]

Who else is willing to say that we should not have stepped up to support Ukraine and should have instead withheld weapons so that the 'war would end faster'???

Step up if that's what they actually think...but hey, I'm sure there are some.
Want to take it to the Senate floor? Have at it.

There are indeed looney tunes and Russian lackeys and apologists out there aplenty. You could probably get someone like Ron Johnson or Rand Paul...they've certainly done so in the media.

I listened to the YouTube of Biden in Ireland. The next one up started playing...yikes!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-AuM9N93J8

...that's based on your viewing habits.

JD Vance & Josh Hawley for two.
Before you dismiss them with snark, read what they have to say.
They're very popular in their states.
https://www.wlwt.com/article/bear-break ... a/43637331
https://www.hawley.senate.gov/hawley-de ... time-truth
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/wheres- ... find-truth

The intel leaks exposed the panic within DoD over our low inventory of, & production capacity for, air defense systems & munitions.
We're structured for force protection of our deployed forces, not for providing, on short notice, for the air defense of not one, but two under-equipped countries vs 2 of the worlds largest Air Forces & missile inventories.

Great, some others "debating" that point of view.

Plenty.

That's my point; take it to the Senate floor guys. Debate away. Show your cards publicly; own it.

Go ahead and argue that we should not have stepped up to support Ukraine and should have instead withheld weapons so that the 'war would end faster'.

However, the country isn't remotely with that view. Thank goodness.

But, yeah, "snark", ohh boy, grifters JD Vance and Josh Hawley as your standard bearers.

"popular in their states"...

[runrussellrun]

Did the documents leaked prove our govt lied to the world?

Oh, NOW I understand why you asked this. You're asking if he was a whistleblower ala Snowden.

Well, the killing machine industry IS not denying that US military personnel ARE IN UKRAINE.

Did anyone say that IS a lie, previously ?

Equality, yet WOMEN still don't have to register for the draft, only males. bizarre world.

...and yet, daily, 12 year olds are getting killed in Baltimore. ...

Strange, NO mention, from the information provided by this hero (what, John Bolton types SHOULD only get the info, What the heck ) about US military personnel. Guess all the folks that are crying that "Hair" is banned, know what that musical was about in the first place. ANTI WAR and ANTI "war is a raquet" stuff.

Thanks, pretend liberals.

[MDlaxfan76]

Re US military in Ukraine:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 262293001/

https://www.reuters.com/article/factche ... SL1N31Z26L

I'm glad we have people inspecting the weapons depots...

[runrussellrun]

Re US military in Ukraine:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 262293001/

https://www.reuters.com/article/factche ... SL1N31Z26L

I'm glad we have people inspecting the weapons depots...

Glad your information is from 7 months ago.....

glad you enjoy killing other humans, too.

US Marines don't guard our Embassy's.....

so glad you "fack checked " with such reliale sourcing.

So glad we took the GUNS away from our US troops in Ukraine. They don't need them, since they are only "inspecting"

unfathomable how people can be this stoopid and lazy, believing this stuff.

so principled.

Maybe our US troops, unarmed, of course, can "inspect" Baltimore weapon depots, instead of some country that is dumb enough to hire a drug addict to its board of Directors. Go go Hunter

[old salt]

grifters JD Vance and Josh Hawley as your standard bearers.

"popular in their states"...

Better to be represented by Senators like Feinstein & Fetterman.

Underestimate Vance & Hawley at your peril.

[old salt]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... documents/

Vladimir Putin says the West is trying to ‘finish’ Russia. The Biden administration denies the accusation.
But leaked documents reveal the extent of U.S. involvement in the Ukraine fight.

By Karen DeYoung, April 18, 2023

Three days before the Feb. 24 anniversary of his Ukraine invasion, Vladimir Putin outlined what he had learned during a year of war. With its ever-increasing supply of sophisticated weapons, Putin said, the West was now using Ukraine as a “testing range” for its plans to destroy Russia.
Its goal was “to spark a war in Europe, and to eliminate competitors by using a proxy force,” he said in a presidential address. “They plan to finish us once and for all.”
...Putin’s more recent depiction of a Western-provoked war threatening Russia’s very existence has resonated, particularly in the Global South, where some countries see the United States engaged in what they consider serial interventions around the world, and have declined to take sides.

Whether Ukraine has become a “proxy” war between great powers has itself become an intellectual and political battlefield.

Dozens of highly classified documents have been leaked online, revealing sensitive information intended for senior military and intelligence leaders. In an exclusive investigation, The Post also reviewed scores of additional secret documents, most of which have not been made public.

What do the leaked documents reveal about Ukraine? The documents reveal profound concerns about the war’s trajectory and Kyiv’s capacity to wage a successful offensive against Russian forces. According to a Defense Intelligence Agency assessment among the leaked documents, “Negotiations to end the conflict are unlikely during 2023.”

Scores of images recently leaked online, many with classified U.S. military and intelligence assessments, illustrate how deeply the United States is involved in virtually every aspect of the war, with the exception of U.S. boots on the ground.

Maps illustrate troop locations, battle plans and likely outcomes on the battlefield down to the smallest towns, along with the location and strength of Russian defenses. There are lists of weapons systems in use by both sides, casualty estimates, summaries of intercepted conversations and assessments of everything from special forces capabilities to expended ammunition.

The leaked documents confirm in detail that the United States is using its vast array of espionage and surveillance tools — including cutting-edge satellites and signals intelligence — to keep Kyiv ahead of Moscow’s war plans and help them inflict Russian casualties.

But Biden officials adamantly reject the proxy label, noting that it is a defensive war Ukraine didn’t start and that Kyiv is fighting for its very survival. While the United States has a legitimate interest in the outcome, and a legal right to provide aid requested by another sovereign government, Ukraine is running operations on the ground.

...the administration has given Ukraine more than $40 billion in military and economic aid, along with real-time targeting assistance and sophisticated weapons systems on which it has trained Kyiv’s forces.

Some domestic critics of Biden’s policy openly echo Putin’s charge, if not necessarily his professed assessment that the Western goal is to eliminate Russia. Donald Trump, in a recent presidential campaign video, called the war a “proxy battle” and said the Biden administration was only “pretending to fight for freedom.” Instead, he said, Biden “globalists” were using it to distract Americans “from the havoc they’re creating right here at home.”

Although he later called Putin a “war criminal,” Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R), an undeclared presidential contender, evinced a similar strain of isolationism during a February appearance on “Fox & Friends.” “I don’t think it’s in our interest to be getting into a proxy war with China, getting involved over things like the borderlands or over Crimea,” DeSantis said.

While some conservatives slam what House Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) has called Biden’s “blank check” for Ukraine, others think the president has been too restrained in doling out enough aid for Ukraine to defeat the Russians. “If you want to fight a proxy war against Vladimir Putin’s vindictive, brutal, destructive desire to be remembered as Peter the Great, then fight the damn proxy war; don’t do it halfway,” the National Review’s Jim Geraghty wrote last month.

The administration itself has provided rhetorical grist for Putin’s proxy portrayal. “We want to see Russia weakened” so that it can never invade another country again, Austin said early in the conflict.

At a NATO summit in Madrid last June, Biden said Americans should be prepared to pay higher energy and gasoline prices “for as long as it takes” to defeat Russia, a phrase he has subsequently used in nearly every statement since then about Western aid for Ukraine. While insisting there will be no U.S. or NATO troops in Ukraine, he has said the war must end in a “strategic failure” for Russia.
“Ukraine will never be a victory for Russia. Never,” Biden said as he marked the anniversary of the war’s beginning during a visit in February to Kyiv.
...Hal Brands, a professor at the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies, has said that is precisely what the United States and its allies are doing in Ukraine. “Russia is the target of one of the most ruthlessly effective proxy wars in modern history,” he wrote in an opinion column for Bloomberg shortly after the war began.

“The key to the strategy is to find a committed local partner — a proxy willing to do the killing and dying — and then load it up with the arms, money and intelligence needed to inflict shattering blows on a vulnerable rival,” Brands wrote. “That’s just what Washington and its allies are doing to Russia today.”

Regardless of its rationale for supporting Ukraine, the United States has made some useful gains in assessing Russia’s military capabilities, if only in seeing how a country that it defines as an “acute threat” operates in combat.
“I thought they would do better at combined arms maneuver than they did,” Gen. Mark A. Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said in an interview, speaking of the early days of the invasion. “But they were just stumbling around.”
During offensives against Kyiv and elsewhere, Milley said, “it became obvious that the Russian military was not capable of sustaining themselves. … They couldn’t keep their vehicles from getting hit; they didn’t have maintenance on-site or the ability to deliver ammunition.”
“I don’t want to underestimate, but it does give me more confidence. The Russian military is not as good as we previously assessed,” he said.

The leaked Pentagon documents reveal substantial Russian weaknesses, including the decimation of elite forces on the front lines — and show that U.S. officials have been able to glean an extraordinary level of information about Russian operations, for example being able to count how many missiles are being loaded onto bombers and, in some cases, where they intend to strike targets in Ukraine.

But the Western allies have had their own problems, notably in keeping up a steady flow of weaponry and ammunition for Ukraine. “We don’t have a country on wartime mobilization for industry,” Milley said. “The lesson really is sustainment rates. What does that mean to us? We are very deliberately reevaluating our own stockage levels and industrial base relative to the war plans we have on the books for various contingencies,” including a potential conflict with China.
“Have we done the correct estimations of what the requirements are? They’ve been very high in this arguably small, limited war,” Milley said. “What would be the rates in a much larger war that the United States might be involved in?”

As they focus on the war confronting them, many U.S. and Western leaders, while reluctant to voice it publicly, say they are convinced that workable relations with Russia can never be reestablished as long as Putin is in power. But that does not mean, they say, that Putin is correct that their goal is to “finish” Russia.

“The last thing we need is Russia fragmenting and the fate of all those nuclear weapons being uncertain,” former U.S. defense secretary and CIA director Robert M. Gates said recently. “We need a coherent Russian state, and we need a strong government in Moscow.”

U.S. aid has increased considerably this year as Ukrainian forces prepare to launch what is considered a crucial counteroffensive this spring. Asked what happens if Ukraine doesn’t succeed in pushing back Russian front lines and reclaiming significant territory, the Pentagon’s top official deflected.

They are always “looking further down the road,” Austin said. But “we want to make sure that they’re successful in this next fight. I think if you lose focus on that, some of the other stuff doesn’t matter.”

[jhu72]

... Vance and Hawley, they are pieces of sh*t. They will suffer the same fate as all such. Someone will step on them sooner or later, only a question of time ...

[Typical Lax Dad]

... Vance and Hawley, they are pieces of sh*t. They will suffer the same fate as all such. Someone will step on them sooner or later, only a question of time ...

Those or Old Salt guys.