2023 FanLax Forum Poll

[Laxattackjack]

How the FanLax Computer has 'em.

1 Tufts
2 Christopher Newport
3 Middlebury
4 Salisbury
5 RIT
6 Gettysburg
7 St. Lawrence
8 Amherst
9 Washington and Lee
10 Bowdoin
11 Dickinson
12 Union
13 Stevens
14 Denison
15 York
16 Lynchburg
17 Cabrini
18 Swarthmore
19 Muhlenberg
20 Williams
21 Clarkson
22 Kenyon
23 Wesleyan
24 Ithaca
25 Hampden-Sydney

Gotta love the fanlax view of the world.

CNU above Salisbury, after a rout last week
Denison above York, after a rout two weeks ago
Union still ranked high after losing 4 of the last 5

[HomerCoach]

Speaking of the ODAC. How is any poll still ranking a 5 loss Lynchburg in the top 15? that just lost to an unranked RMC

USILA has W&L in the top 10????

And HSC (first place in the ODAC and the best overall record), isn’t even in the USILA ranking

Kinda makes their ranking skewed.

Someone has a conference power ranking somewhere...ODAC is getting WAY TOO MUCH LOVE!

[Matnum PI]

CNU above Salisbury, after a rout last week
Denison above York, after a rout two weeks ago
Union still ranked high after losing 4 of the last 5

Correct. Rankings don't differentiate February from this past weekend. Don't focus on head-to-head wins. Don't factor in game scores. Just Ws and Ls and the teams complete resume. If we were trying to project the future, the formula would be different. But that's not what the FanLax Computer is programmed to do. Not to predict the future but to evaluate the past.

[Laxattackjack]

CNU above Salisbury, after a rout last week
Denison above York, after a rout two weeks ago
Union still ranked high after losing 4 of the last 5

Correct. Rankings don't differentiate February from this past weekend. Don't focus on head-to-head wins. Don't factor in game scores. Just Ws and Ls and the teams complete resume. If we were trying to project the future, the formula would be different. But that's not what the FanLax Computer is programmed to do. Not to predict the future but to evaluate the past.

Yes. I recall. This is a basically a popularity contest. Not a ranking of the best teams. It makes sense, there are already lots of polls that rank teams based on who is better.

[Matnum PI]

... Yes. I recall. This is a basically a popularity contest. Not a ranking of the best teams...

[Hacker]

Speaking of the ODAC. How is any poll still ranking a 5 loss Lynchburg in the top 15? that just lost to an unranked RMC

USILA has W&L in the top 10????

And HSC (first place in the ODAC and the best overall record), isn’t even in the USILA ranking

Kinda makes their ranking skewed.

Someone has a conference power ranking somewhere...ODAC is getting WAY TOO MUCH LOVE!

1. NESCAC
big gap
2a.Liberty
2b. Centennial
3.Newmac
4.Coastal
5.ODAC

based on top to bottom, not one or 2 teams.

[SixBySix]

Someone has a conference power ranking somewhere...ODAC is getting WAY TOO MUCH LOVE!

Well, as any veteran of this site knows, this is a classic question that can only be answered with a heat map!

4-17 conference matrix.png (145.41 KiB) Viewed 1894 times

Long story short, Hacker seems to have more or less nailed it, at least based on average Laxpower rating. I think this can be tiered into:

"High Major" - average ~90s and 5+ teams over 90
-NESCAC
-Liberty
-Centennial

"Mid Major" - average ~80s and 4+ teams over 83
-C2C
-NEWMAC
-MAC-C
-CCC
-ODAC
-NCAC

"Low Major" - average ~low 80s
-MAC-F
-Empire 8
-SAA
-Landmark
-SUNYAC

Obviously fairly arbitrary cut-offs, and I could absolutely see arguments that in the longer-term a couple conferences should be bumped up a category, but I think this aligns fairly well with my gestalt as a long-time D3 fan.

Other takeaways:
- Liberty and Centennial are essentially indistinguishable--only real difference is McDaniel dragging down the average a touch. #1-#8 are remarkably similar
- There's Tufts, Amherst, and then a little extra depth in #4-#8 that puts the NESCAC comfortably ahead of the Liberty/Centennial
- The ODAC top 4 are an appreciable step behind the big dogs, and the bottom of the conference will always keep their average in the "mid-major" range of D3 lacrosse conferences
- I would have to go back and double check, but I believe this is a relatively good showing for the NEWMAC, in terms of overall average and depth compared to the big conferences

[Unknown Participant]

Nice! Thanks

[smoova]

- There's Tufts, Amherst, and then a little extra depth in #4-#8 that puts the NESCAC comfortably ahead of the Liberty/Centennial

Ooof ... tell me you haven't been paying attention to the NESCAC without telling me you haven't been paying attention to the NESCAC ...

[SixBySix]

Ooof ... tell me you haven't been paying attention to the NESCAC without telling me you haven't been paying attention to the NESCAC ...

Guilty as charged, looks like that is in fact Middlebury. Not particularly concerned which one of them is going to lose the conference championship game.

[smoova]

Ooof ... tell me you haven't been paying attention to the NESCAC without telling me you haven't been paying attention to the NESCAC ...

Guilty as charged, looks like that is in fact Middlebury. Not particularly concerned which one of them is going to lose the conference championship game.

Heh. All dynasties have one thing in common ... they end.

[HomerCoach]

Someone has a conference power ranking somewhere...ODAC is getting WAY TOO MUCH LOVE!

Well, as any veteran of this site knows, this is a classic question that can only be answered with a heat map!

4-17 conference matrix.png

Long story short, Hacker seems to have more or less nailed it, at least based on average Laxpower rating. I think this can be tiered into:

"High Major" - average ~90s and 5+ teams over 90
-NESCAC
-Liberty
-Centennial

"Mid Major" - average ~80s and 4+ teams over 83
-C2C
-NEWMAC
-MAC-C
-CCC
-ODAC
-NCAC

"Low Major" - average ~low 80s
-MAC-F
-Empire 8
-SAA
-Landmark
-SUNYAC

Obviously fairly arbitrary cut-offs, and I could absolutely see arguments that in the longer-term a couple conferences should be bumped up a category, but I think this aligns fairly well with my gestalt as a long-time D3 fan.

Other takeaways:
- Liberty and Centennial are essentially indistinguishable--only real difference is McDaniel dragging down the average a touch. #1-#8 are remarkably similar
- There's Tufts, Amherst, and then a little extra depth in #4-#8 that puts the NESCAC comfortably ahead of the Liberty/Centennial
- The ODAC top 4 are an appreciable step behind the big dogs, and the bottom of the conference will always keep their average in the "mid-major" range of D3 lacrosse conferences
- I would have to go back and double check, but I believe this is a relatively good showing for the NEWMAC, in terms of overall average and depth compared to the big conferences

So you're saying the 3rd ODAC team would be 6/7 in the Liberty/Centennial? Seems about right.

[InsiderRoll]

Someone has a conference power ranking somewhere...ODAC is getting WAY TOO MUCH LOVE!

Well, as any veteran of this site knows, this is a classic question that can only be answered with a heat map!

4-17 conference matrix.png

Long story short, Hacker seems to have more or less nailed it, at least based on average Laxpower rating. I think this can be tiered into:

"High Major" - average ~90s and 5+ teams over 90
-NESCAC
-Liberty
-Centennial

"Mid Major" - average ~80s and 4+ teams over 83
-C2C
-NEWMAC
-MAC-C
-CCC
-ODAC
-NCAC

"Low Major" - average ~low 80s
-MAC-F
-Empire 8
-SAA
-Landmark
-SUNYAC

Obviously fairly arbitrary cut-offs, and I could absolutely see arguments that in the longer-term a couple conferences should be bumped up a category, but I think this aligns fairly well with my gestalt as a long-time D3 fan.

Other takeaways:
- Liberty and Centennial are essentially indistinguishable--only real difference is McDaniel dragging down the average a touch. #1-#8 are remarkably similar
- There's Tufts, Amherst, and then a little extra depth in #4-#8 that puts the NESCAC comfortably ahead of the Liberty/Centennial
- The ODAC top 4 are an appreciable step behind the big dogs, and the bottom of the conference will always keep their average in the "mid-major" range of D3 lacrosse conferences
- I would have to go back and double check, but I believe this is a relatively good showing for the NEWMAC, in terms of overall average and depth compared to the big conferences

So you're saying the 3rd ODAC team would be 6/7 in the Liberty/Centennial? Seems about right.

I don’t think anyone is arguing that the ODAC is a better league than the Centennial or Liberty. It isn’t. There’s two ODAC teams that get “love” it’s because they play top level national schedules OOC. In fact Lynchburg has a higher strength of schedule ranking than every single Centennial team just edging out Gettysburg, despite having to play the abysmal back end of the ODAC. W&Ls schedule is rated better than most centennials because besides Gettysburg and maybe Ursinus the Centennial teams don’t load up their OOC slates, partially because they know the league will add SOS.

So at the end of the day whether it’s in league or out of league the two ODAC teams in the rankings are playing as competitive a schedule as the Centennial teams are.

[DaFuqDude]

Speaking of the ODAC. How is any poll still ranking a 5 loss Lynchburg in the top 15? that just lost to an unranked RMC

USILA has W&L in the top 10????

And HSC (first place in the ODAC and the best overall record), isn’t even in the USILA ranking

Kinda makes their ranking skewed.

Someone has a conference power ranking somewhere...ODAC is getting WAY TOO MUCH LOVE!

1. NESCAC
big gap
2a.Liberty
2b. Centennial
3.Newmac
4.Coastal
5.ODAC

based on top to bottom, not one or 2 teams.

Sorry no offense but I have to disagree with your power ranking here. I believe it should look a little closer to this:

1. NESCAC

A big gap
A slightly bigger gap
A Small River
The Suez Canal
The Panama Canal
The Continental Drift

2a.Liberty
2b. Centennial
3.Newmac
4.Coastal
5.ODAC


I dont think the NESCAC and the Liberty League should be ranked next to each other in this ranking unless they are social distancing, wearing a mask, and double vaxed/triple boosted!!!

[HomerCoach]

Someone has a conference power ranking somewhere...ODAC is getting WAY TOO MUCH LOVE!

Well, as any veteran of this site knows, this is a classic question that can only be answered with a heat map!

4-17 conference matrix.png

Long story short, Hacker seems to have more or less nailed it, at least based on average Laxpower rating. I think this can be tiered into:

"High Major" - average ~90s and 5+ teams over 90
-NESCAC
-Liberty
-Centennial

"Mid Major" - average ~80s and 4+ teams over 83
-C2C
-NEWMAC
-MAC-C
-CCC
-ODAC
-NCAC

"Low Major" - average ~low 80s
-MAC-F
-Empire 8
-SAA
-Landmark
-SUNYAC

Obviously fairly arbitrary cut-offs, and I could absolutely see arguments that in the longer-term a couple conferences should be bumped up a category, but I think this aligns fairly well with my gestalt as a long-time D3 fan.

Other takeaways:
- Liberty and Centennial are essentially indistinguishable--only real difference is McDaniel dragging down the average a touch. #1-#8 are remarkably similar
- There's Tufts, Amherst, and then a little extra depth in #4-#8 that puts the NESCAC comfortably ahead of the Liberty/Centennial
- The ODAC top 4 are an appreciable step behind the big dogs, and the bottom of the conference will always keep their average in the "mid-major" range of D3 lacrosse conferences
- I would have to go back and double check, but I believe this is a relatively good showing for the NEWMAC, in terms of overall average and depth compared to the big conferences

So you're saying the 3rd ODAC team would be 6/7 in the Liberty/Centennial? Seems about right.

I don’t think anyone is arguing that the ODAC is a better league than the Centennial or Liberty. It isn’t. There’s two ODAC teams that get “love” it’s because they play top level national schedules OOC. In fact Lynchburg has a higher strength of schedule ranking than every single Centennial team just edging out Gettysburg, despite having to play the abysmal back end of the ODAC. W&Ls schedule is rated better than most centennials because besides Gettysburg and maybe Ursinus the Centennial teams don’t load up their OOC slates, partially because they know the league will add SOS.

So at the end of the day whether it’s in league or out of league the two ODAC teams in the rankings are playing as competitive a schedule as the Centennial teams are.

Where are your SOS numbers coming from? I'm sure you did more research than simply spewing nonsense.

[InsiderRoll]

Someone has a conference power ranking somewhere...ODAC is getting WAY TOO MUCH LOVE!

Well, as any veteran of this site knows, this is a classic question that can only be answered with a heat map!

4-17 conference matrix.png

Long story short, Hacker seems to have more or less nailed it, at least based on average Laxpower rating. I think this can be tiered into:

"High Major" - average ~90s and 5+ teams over 90
-NESCAC
-Liberty
-Centennial

"Mid Major" - average ~80s and 4+ teams over 83
-C2C
-NEWMAC
-MAC-C
-CCC
-ODAC
-NCAC

"Low Major" - average ~low 80s
-MAC-F
-Empire 8
-SAA
-Landmark
-SUNYAC

Obviously fairly arbitrary cut-offs, and I could absolutely see arguments that in the longer-term a couple conferences should be bumped up a category, but I think this aligns fairly well with my gestalt as a long-time D3 fan.

Other takeaways:
- Liberty and Centennial are essentially indistinguishable--only real difference is McDaniel dragging down the average a touch. #1-#8 are remarkably similar
- There's Tufts, Amherst, and then a little extra depth in #4-#8 that puts the NESCAC comfortably ahead of the Liberty/Centennial
- The ODAC top 4 are an appreciable step behind the big dogs, and the bottom of the conference will always keep their average in the "mid-major" range of D3 lacrosse conferences
- I would have to go back and double check, but I believe this is a relatively good showing for the NEWMAC, in terms of overall average and depth compared to the big conferences

So you're saying the 3rd ODAC team would be 6/7 in the Liberty/Centennial? Seems about right.

I don’t think anyone is arguing that the ODAC is a better league than the Centennial or Liberty. It isn’t. There’s two ODAC teams that get “love” it’s because they play top level national schedules OOC. In fact Lynchburg has a higher strength of schedule ranking than every single Centennial team just edging out Gettysburg, despite having to play the abysmal back end of the ODAC. W&Ls schedule is rated better than most centennials because besides Gettysburg and maybe Ursinus the Centennial teams don’t load up their OOC slates, partially because they know the league will add SOS.

So at the end of the day whether it’s in league or out of league the two ODAC teams in the rankings are playing as competitive a schedule as the Centennial teams are.

Where are your SOS numbers coming from? I'm sure you did more research than simply spewing nonsense.

Massey rating SOS

[ergit]

Speaking of the ODAC. How is any poll still ranking a 5 loss Lynchburg in the top 15? that just lost to an unranked RMC

USILA has W&L in the top 10????

And HSC (first place in the ODAC and the best overall record), isn’t even in the USILA ranking

Kinda makes their ranking skewed.

Someone has a conference power ranking somewhere...ODAC is getting WAY TOO MUCH LOVE!

1. NESCAC
big gap
2a.Liberty
2b. Centennial
3.Newmac
4.Coastal
5.ODAC

based on top to bottom, not one or 2 teams.

Sorry no offense but I have to disagree with your power ranking here. I believe it should look a little closer to this:

1. NESCAC

A big gap
A slightly bigger gap
A Small River
The Suez Canal
The Panama Canal
The Continental Drift

2a.Liberty
2b. Centennial
3.Newmac
4.Coastal
5.ODAC


I dont think the NESCAC and the Liberty League should be ranked next to each other in this ranking unless they are social distancing, wearing a mask, and double vaxed/triple boosted!!!

There is no argument that the NESCAC is the deepest league in D3. If you want to base the strength of the league on the likes of Connecticut College, Colby and Hamilton compared to Vassar, Muhlenburg, Hampden-Sydney or Stockton, then go right ahead.

The fact that NESCAC teams play ten conference games allows the top teams to beat up on the bottom half of the league and duck top out-of-conference and out-of-region competition like York, CNU or Salisbury.

I suspect much of this NESCAC backslapping comes from (first year?) parents with sons playing in the bottom half of the league who convince themselves that finishing ninth in the NESCAC makes you the ninth best team in D3.

The only teams of national relevance and consistently really good the last several years have been Tufts and to a lesser extent Amherst. Williams and Wesleyan have been up and down and Middlebury (up until this year) hasn't done a thing in 15 or 20 years. Every other team in that conference is nationally irrelevant.

The last national championship for Tufts was in 2015, eight years ago. They were talked up all of last season until Tournament time in the semi-finals when they were man-handled and embarrassed by RIT. They never showed up to play on that day. It was a murder. The talk about Tufts all season long made it kind of pathetic. The winning margin was 11 goals and RIT was leading 26-11 when they went to their bench.

I can't believe that a team like Salisbury would have been embarrassed like that. Salisbury would have shown up to play, like they do every game, every year. Tufts may very well win the national championship this year. Then again, they may just fold like they did last year.

Enjoy your four years in the New England Bottom Half Athletic Conference (NEBHAC?)...

[D3LaxFan2]

I can't believe that a team like Salisbury would have been embarrassed like that. Salisbury would have shown up to play, like they do every game, every year.

Well said! I wonder what would have happened if Salisbury played Tufts last year? I bet it would have been a 7 goal blowout.

[ergit]

I can't believe that a team like Salisbury would have been embarrassed like that. Salisbury would have shown up to play, like they do every game, every year.

Well said! I wonder what would have happened if Salisbury played Tufts last year? I bet it would have been a 7 goal blowout.

At least they got off the bus…

[Unknown Participant]

I can't believe that a team like Salisbury would have been embarrassed like that. Salisbury would have shown up to play, like they do every game, every year.

Well said! I wonder what would have happened if Salisbury played Tufts last year? I bet it would have been a 7 goal blowout.

Facetiously I presume?