![Cool 8-)](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
Instead we got yet another Hopkins 1st round hammering.
^^^^CU77 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:04 pm As someone who's followed this for a LONG time, my opinion is that, ever since the 2009 criteria change, Cornell has been treated fairly by the committee.
As indeed have all other schools.
Which is not to say that the committee's decisions are consistent from year to year: they are definitely not.
If you want consistency, the only way to get it is to do what hockey does: use a definite mathematical formula with no discretion for the committee.
But prior to 2009, there were many debacles, of which 2007 was the worst. Happily, that one led directly to the 2009 criteria change.
Hop loses to Maryland, loses to Rutgers in the first round of the BT tournament (I don't know if this match-up is possible), Michigan or Ohio State wins the BT tournament, Cornell wins out except for losing the ILT championship to Yale, Georgetown wins out but loses the BE championship to Denver. Eight at-larges are Duke, UVa, ND, UMd, RU, PSU, Cornell, GT (not in order).
Hey! The YWCA had a very good team that year. Even had a big win against Joe’s Deli.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:25 pmAhh the fatty bucknell reference used like Hop fans citing titles from 1914 against the YWCA.CU77 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:23 pm 2007 was a seeding issue, but the same set of bad criteria also led to bad selections in other years; 1996 was particularly egregious:
https://www.nytimes.com/1996/05/12/spor ... -snub.html
But yeah Albany and Cornell were boned on seeding in 2007/
Hopkins resume is better than Rutgers, Cornell, and Georgetown. Rutgers and Georgetown resumes aren’t even in the same universe to Hopkins. Plus they lost to them H2H.CU77 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:51 pmHop loses to Maryland, loses to Rutgers in the first round of the BT tournament (I don't know if this match-up is possible), Michigan or Ohio State wins the BT tournament, Cornell wins out except for losing the ILT championship to Yale, Georgetown wins out but loses the BE championship to Denver. Eight at-larges are Duke, UVa, ND, UMd, RU, PSU, Cornell, GT (not in order).
are u referencing hop's 44? champs?DocBarrister wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:52 pmHey! The YWCA had a very good team that year. Even had a big win against Joe’s Deli.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:25 pmAhh the fatty bucknell reference used like Hop fans citing titles from 1914 against the YWCA.CU77 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:23 pm 2007 was a seeding issue, but the same set of bad criteria also led to bad selections in other years; 1996 was particularly egregious:
https://www.nytimes.com/1996/05/12/spor ... -snub.html
But yeah Albany and Cornell were boned on seeding in 2007/
DocBarrister
Yeah buts Katz didn’t start a club until 1917.DocBarrister wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:52 pmHey! The YWCA had a very good team that year. Even had a big win against Joe’s Deli.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:25 pmAhh the fatty bucknell reference used like Hop fans citing titles from 1914 against the YWCA.CU77 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:23 pm 2007 was a seeding issue, but the same set of bad criteria also led to bad selections in other years; 1996 was particularly egregious:
https://www.nytimes.com/1996/05/12/spor ... -snub.html
But yeah Albany and Cornell were boned on seeding in 2007/
DocBarrister
Ahh, the old H2H argument, yet in your 2019 scenario of Cornell NOT being a lock, they beat Notre Dame AT NOTRE DAME, yet ND was in and Cornell out. Does H2H mean anything or nothing? Which is it?jrn19 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 4:02 pmHopkins resume is better than Rutgers, Cornell, and Georgetown. Rutgers and Georgetown resumes aren’t even in the same universe to Hopkins. Plus they lost to them H2H.CU77 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:51 pmHop loses to Maryland, loses to Rutgers in the first round of the BT tournament (I don't know if this match-up is possible), Michigan or Ohio State wins the BT tournament, Cornell wins out except for losing the ILT championship to Yale, Georgetown wins out but loses the BE championship to Denver. Eight at-larges are Duke, UVa, ND, UMd, RU, PSU, Cornell, GT (not in order).
If you go back and look at my post, here was the Cornell and Notre Dame comparison:joewillie78 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 4:26 pmAhh, the old H2H argument, yet in your 2019 scenario of Cornell NOT being a lock, they beat Notre Dame AT NOTRE DAME, yet ND was in and Cornell out. Does H2H mean anything or nothing? Which is it?jrn19 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 4:02 pmHopkins resume is better than Rutgers, Cornell, and Georgetown. Rutgers and Georgetown resumes aren’t even in the same universe to Hopkins. Plus they lost to them H2H.CU77 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:51 pmHop loses to Maryland, loses to Rutgers in the first round of the BT tournament (I don't know if this match-up is possible), Michigan or Ohio State wins the BT tournament, Cornell wins out except for losing the ILT championship to Yale, Georgetown wins out but loses the BE championship to Denver. Eight at-larges are Duke, UVa, ND, UMd, RU, PSU, Cornell, GT (not in order).
Gobigred
Joewillie78
jrn19 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 4:02 pmHopkins resume is better than Rutgers, Cornell, and Georgetown. Rutgers and Georgetown resumes aren’t even in the same universe to Hopkins. Plus they lost to them H2H.CU77 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:51 pmHop loses to Maryland, loses to Rutgers in the first round of the BT tournament (I don't know if this match-up is possible), Michigan or Ohio State wins the BT tournament, Cornell wins out except for losing the ILT championship to Yale, Georgetown wins out but loses the BE championship to Denver. Eight at-larges are Duke, UVa, ND, UMd, RU, PSU, Cornell, GT (not in order).
Yale? Not Princeton or Penn? What makes you think Yale will prevail?CU77 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:51 pmHop loses to Maryland, loses to Rutgers in the first round of the BT tournament (I don't know if this match-up is possible), Michigan or Ohio State wins the BT tournament, Cornell wins out except for losing the ILT championship to Yale, Georgetown wins out but loses the BE championship to Denver. Eight at-larges are Duke, UVa, ND, UMd, RU, PSU, Cornell, GT (not in order).
In this scenario, Hopkins is ahead of Georgetown in RPI, both teams have 1 Top 10 win and 4 Top 20 wins, Hopkins best Top 10 win and best Top 20 win is better than Georgetown's best win and Hopkins beat Georgetown H2H. Hopkins would get in over Georgetown.laxreference wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:01 pmjrn19 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 4:02 pmHopkins resume is better than Rutgers, Cornell, and Georgetown. Rutgers and Georgetown resumes aren’t even in the same universe to Hopkins. Plus they lost to them H2H.CU77 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:51 pmHop loses to Maryland, loses to Rutgers in the first round of the BT tournament (I don't know if this match-up is possible), Michigan or Ohio State wins the BT tournament, Cornell wins out except for losing the ILT championship to Yale, Georgetown wins out but loses the BE championship to Denver. Eight at-larges are Duke, UVa, ND, UMd, RU, PSU, Cornell, GT (not in order).
I think I nailed the scenario that CU77 suggested; I think he's at least not incorrect (although I can't say for sure because obviously there were many games not entered). Full list of hypothetical games is at the bottom. With those games entered, the selections look like this.
scenario1Selections.JPG
Under this scenario, JHU would be the first one out
scenario1H2H.JPG
Hypothetical Results Used to Get Here:
scenario1HypoGames.JPG
Yale currently has the highest RPI, making Cornell's hypothetical loss less bad for this scenario (where Cornell gets the nod over Hop).PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:05 pm Yale? Not Princeton or Penn? What makes you think Yale will prevail?
I wouldn't disagree. This is literally the one scenario where H2H makes sense. They are literally one point apart in SOR.jrn19 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:12 pm
In this scenario, Hopkins is ahead of Georgetown in RPI, both teams have 1 Top 10 win and 4 Top 20 wins, Hopkins best Top 10 win and best Top 20 win is better than Georgetown's best win and Hopkins beat Georgetown H2H. Hopkins would get in over Georgetown.
I'm also not sure for the purposes of this scenario why we are assuming Rutgers beats Maryland
Ah, backing your way into a scenario.CU77 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:13 pmYale currently has the highest RPI, making Cornell's hypothetical loss less bad for this scenario (where Cornell gets the nod over Hop).PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:05 pm Yale? Not Princeton or Penn? What makes you think Yale will prevail?
Why the hell would GT get an at large, their best win is Denver who lost to AF and they just almost lost to St Johns. If they lose one of next 3 games the only way in should be to win big east.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:05 pmYale? Not Princeton or Penn? What makes you think Yale will prevail?CU77 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:51 pmHop loses to Maryland, loses to Rutgers in the first round of the BT tournament (I don't know if this match-up is possible), Michigan or Ohio State wins the BT tournament, Cornell wins out except for losing the ILT championship to Yale, Georgetown wins out but loses the BE championship to Denver. Eight at-larges are Duke, UVa, ND, UMd, RU, PSU, Cornell, GT (not in order).
Hoyas have the 10th most impressive set of wins and only two teams have a less damaging set of losses. (As measured by the RPI rank of their opponents.) Collectively, their wins and losses rate as the 8th most impressive nationally.lorin wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 1:47 pmWhy the hell would GT get an at large, their best win is Denver who lost to AF and they just almost lost to St Johns. If they lose one of next 3 games the only way in should be to win big east.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:05 pmYale? Not Princeton or Penn? What makes you think Yale will prevail?CU77 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:51 pmHop loses to Maryland, loses to Rutgers in the first round of the BT tournament (I don't know if this match-up is possible), Michigan or Ohio State wins the BT tournament, Cornell wins out except for losing the ILT championship to Yale, Georgetown wins out but loses the BE championship to Denver. Eight at-larges are Duke, UVa, ND, UMd, RU, PSU, Cornell, GT (not in order).
I like how you think.CU77 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:51 pmHop loses to Maryland, loses to Rutgers in the first round of the BT tournament (I don't know if this match-up is possible), Michigan or Ohio State wins the BT tournament, Cornell wins out except for losing the ILT championship to Yale, Georgetown wins out but loses the BE championship to Denver. Eight at-larges are Duke, UVa, ND, UMd, RU, PSU, Cornell, GT (not in order).