NESCAC

[Bucket]

Huge non-conference game in Canton, NY on Wednesday as #4 Midd plays at #6 St Lawrence.

Really looking forward to this one.

[JaxsonGrey68]

Enough is Enough with TickyTacky back and forth of petty comments about the Bantams head coach... Just face it you guys are from different sides of the track...

What we should be focusing on is the fact that the NESCAC (Tied for the Best Conference in NCAA Lacrosse with the ACC (Suck it Liberty League fans)) has Dog Walked the rest of the Division 3 landscape this year. You name the conference the NESCAC has beat them.... I am having a hard time thinking of a year in recent past in which the NESCAC has truly dominated the rest of the DIII landscape.

I'm not saying that we can fully pencil in a NESCAC vs NESCAC Showdown on Memorial Day Sunday, because of those cowards at the NCAA putting all the NESCAC teams on the same side of the bracket... But I do think in a Perfect world we should and could see (pray to your respective Gods) a NESCAC Armageddon on May 28th. Get your Popcorn Ready !!!!

#JustMyThoughtsComingFromAD3JunkieRegardlessOfMyConfrenceAlligence

Completely agree. Am done speaking of Tarnow!

The NC$$ for years now has utilized geography as a significant criteria in their seeding of all sports and not just lacrosse. Since they pay for transportation they want to make sure that teams do not have significant travel costs so that they can keep their coffers as full as possible, especially for lower levels and non-revenue sports. I know that growing the game is important as is recognizing league champions but does anyone really think that some of the champions from some of these lesser known leagues would have a chance in the NESCAC.

The Midd/St Lawrence game will be interesting. StL has a pretty gaudy W-L record but really have not beaten anyone outside of Ithaca and lost handily to Union who is struggling with injuries this year. Top to bottom the NESCAC appears to be the strongest once again. Centennial does not appear to have a dominant team, but do not like overlooking G'Burg and the LL, has RIT and then what appears to be a bunch of solid teams. Will be really interesting to see what happens at months end and after conference tourney's. NESCAC needs chalk to win out in these other leagues to minimize the at-large pool.

[InsiderRoll]

Enough is Enough with TickyTacky back and forth of petty comments about the Bantams head coach... Just face it you guys are from different sides of the track...

What we should be focusing on is the fact that the NESCAC (Tied for the Best Conference in NCAA Lacrosse with the ACC (Suck it Liberty League fans)) has Dog Walked the rest of the Division 3 landscape this year. You name the conference the NESCAC has beat them.... I am having a hard time thinking of a year in recent past in which the NESCAC has truly dominated the rest of the DIII landscape.

I'm not saying that we can fully pencil in a NESCAC vs NESCAC Showdown on Memorial Day Sunday, because of those cowards at the NCAA putting all the NESCAC teams on the same side of the bracket... But I do think in a Perfect world we should and could see (pray to your respective Gods) a NESCAC Armageddon on May 28th. Get your Popcorn Ready !!!!

#JustMyThoughtsComingFromAD3JunkieRegardlessOfMyConfrenceAlligence

Completely agree. Am done speaking of Tarnow!

The NC$$ for years now has utilized geography as a significant criteria in their seeding of all sports and not just lacrosse. Since they pay for transportation they want to make sure that teams do not have significant travel costs so that they can keep their coffers as full as possible, especially for lower levels and non-revenue sports. I know that growing the game is important as is recognizing league champions but does anyone really think that some of the champions from some of these lesser known leagues would have a chance in the NESCAC.

The Midd/St Lawrence game will be interesting. StL has a pretty gaudy W-L record but really have not beaten anyone outside of Ithaca and lost handily to Union who is struggling with injuries this year. Top to bottom the NESCAC appears to be the strongest once again. Centennial does not appear to have a dominant team, but do not like overlooking G'Burg and the LL, has RIT and then what appears to be a bunch of solid teams. Will be really interesting to see what happens at months end and after conference tourney's. NESCAC needs chalk to win out in these other leagues to minimize the at-large pool.

The NESCAC is the strongest league this year, not even close. Last year the liberty league was stronger. The NESCAC doesn’t need this win to earn that title. This game is merely for seeding purposes for NCAA. The NESCAC will get 4 teams into the NCAA tournament at this point. That is a forgone conclusion, 3 pool Cs and 1 AQ. There will be at least 1 deserving team that doesn’t get the pool c bid.

I mentioned in my bracketology write up. But at this point it is looking like the 1st round of the NESCAC tournament could serve as a de facto NCAA play in game between Amherst, Wesleyan, Williams, and Bowdoin.

Williams has Middlebury, Amherst, and Wesleyan still to play. They may very well end the year with the #1 SOS in the country. The Ephs quietly have put together a top 20 resume without anyone noticing. If they win those 3, not sure that’ll happen, then they will be a pool c lock and a top 7-8 team in the country.

[DaFuqDude]

Enough is Enough with TickyTacky back and forth of petty comments about the Bantams head coach... Just face it you guys are from different sides of the track...

What we should be focusing on is the fact that the NESCAC (Tied for the Best Conference in NCAA Lacrosse with the ACC (Suck it Liberty League fans)) has Dog Walked the rest of the Division 3 landscape this year. You name the conference the NESCAC has beat them.... I am having a hard time thinking of a year in recent past in which the NESCAC has truly dominated the rest of the DIII landscape.

I'm not saying that we can fully pencil in a NESCAC vs NESCAC Showdown on Memorial Day Sunday, because of those cowards at the NCAA putting all the NESCAC teams on the same side of the bracket... But I do think in a Perfect world we should and could see (pray to your respective Gods) a NESCAC Armageddon on May 28th. Get your Popcorn Ready !!!!

#JustMyThoughtsComingFromAD3JunkieRegardlessOfMyConfrenceAlligence

Completely agree. Am done speaking of Tarnow!

The NC$$ for years now has utilized geography as a significant criteria in their seeding of all sports and not just lacrosse. Since they pay for transportation they want to make sure that teams do not have significant travel costs so that they can keep their coffers as full as possible, especially for lower levels and non-revenue sports. I know that growing the game is important as is recognizing league champions but does anyone really think that some of the champions from some of these lesser known leagues would have a chance in the NESCAC.

The Midd/St Lawrence game will be interesting. StL has a pretty gaudy W-L record but really have not beaten anyone outside of Ithaca and lost handily to Union who is struggling with injuries this year. Top to bottom the NESCAC appears to be the strongest once again. Centennial does not appear to have a dominant team, but do not like overlooking G'Burg and the LL, has RIT and then what appears to be a bunch of solid teams. Will be really interesting to see what happens at months end and after conference tourney's. NESCAC needs chalk to win out in these other leagues to minimize the at-large pool.

The NESCAC is the strongest league this year, not even close. Last year the liberty league was stronger. The NESCAC doesn’t need this win to earn that title. This game is merely for seeding purposes for NCAA. The NESCAC will get 4 teams into the NCAA tournament at this point. That is a forgone conclusion, 3 pool Cs and 1 AQ. There will be at least 1 deserving team that doesn’t get the pool c bid.

I mentioned in my bracketology write up. But at this point it is looking like the 1st round of the NESCAC tournament could serve as a de facto NCAA play in game between Amherst, Wesleyan, Williams, and Bowdoin.

Williams has Middlebury, Amherst, and Wesleyan still to play. They may very well end the year with the #1 SOS in the country. The Ephs quietly have put together a top 20 resume without anyone noticing. If they win those 3, not sure that’ll happen, then they will be a pool c lock and a top 7-8 team in the country.

I have a few thoughts on the above that I want to expand upon:

I don't think it is fair to judge the strength of the 2022 NESCAC to that of 2022 Liberty League when in reality it was the first REAL NESCAC season since (checks calendar) 2019. Yes, there was a LL vs LL Memorial Day Showdown in 2022 but I view this as an aberration. I rationalize this LL National Championship, as RIT being a perennial May power and I salute the Dutchmen for capitalizing on their window of opportunity with roster full of 5th years. All in all, I view the 2022 Liberty League through a a different lens. But hey I'm happy for the Liberty League's success but, the D3 Lax world needs ditch diggers too.

Fair Point in regard to Williams having the potential to build an incredible SOS resume, especially rolling into the NESCAC tournament. It is important to not put the cart before the horse here, as has been the case with many middle of the pack NESCAC teams have learned that playing an elite level strength of schedule is great prep for May, but losing to close quality opponents only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades'. There is a road map for the Purple Cows to control their own destiny and play themselves into May but that is yet to be seen. Additionally, isnt a .500 record required for Pool C qualification - They have 4 tough in conference games left to help build their resume and an out of conference showdown with a (sexy?) MIT team. Resume can be bolstered but they are walking a tight rope down the stretch - Imperative to come out and win now.

I think the Only NCAA bid locks from the NESCAC at the moment are: Jumbos, Panthers, Lord Jeffs/Mammoths/Flying Poets (whatever their name is) and assuming it is a four bid league, whoever advances the furthest in 'CAC tournament between Wesleyan and Bowdoin (with a lean towards the Cardinals).

[UpperCorner]

Let’s not get away from the Coach Tarnow issue too quickly.

There's been a lot of back-and-forth here. I presume its a couple current parents and a couple "former player" parents.

Fact is that what would be the current senior class playing (less two seniors still on the team), tried to get a change of coaching last summer. They indicated that everything they were promised when they were recruited and came (player development, Alumni involvement, quality coaching) was a sham. They indicated that Tarnow, in no way, should be coaching at Trinity (or any NESCAC), and that they wanted better, not just for themselves, but for the better of Trinity and all the young men that would play after them. They loved Trinity Lacrosse that much. They knew the risks... that Tarnow may find out, take retribution, bench them, etc - but they deemed that risk acceptable to try to make Trinity Lacrosse a respectable program.

Ultimately the AD and the administration ignored the pleas of the players for something better and indicated they had a "process" and they would take care of it. At the end of the day nothing was done.

Unfortunately, some of the players and a couple parents saw an opportunity here. They could get in good with the coach - maybe more playing time? Maybe not get benched... maintain the status quo? So... every indication is that they went to Tarnow and told them exactly what was going on.

As expected, Tarnow took retribution. Not speaking to Seniors. Putting juniors in charge of Fall Ball. Telling some of the seniors that they should not expect to play. I heard the quotes "You threatened my livelihood” and “be concerned about even seeing the field". This was not said to players riding the bench, it was to players who had played every game of their college career. Many of the seniors played every game and were serious about the game. They would rather be playing now. They love the game and the school.

Tarnow created such a toxic environment that they no longer wanted to play the game. Certainly not for him. There was a very high level of mental anguish and stress for these young men. Playing the game they loved for 16 years, doing everything to get recruited to play in college, and now not having any fun playing it and scared of the coach. Listening to "team building" events that alluded to them trying to get him fired. "Team Building" events that indicated only those who were "trusted" would play... not even understanding the irony that the whole team knew he interviewed all summer at other schools. One-by-one they started to quit.

It is absolutely heart-breaking as a parent to watch your kid stop playing a game that you watched them play since they were six. Especially in what should have been their best year.

When you see Trinity do well… compliment the players. That coach makes them worse.

There… it’s out. So when you asked if Tarnow kicked someone's dog? Its much much worse than that. It's personal.

[Bucket]

Just stop. This is embarrassing.

[nehslaxfan]

Let’s not get away from the Coach Tarnow issue too quickly.

There's been a lot of back-and-forth here. I presume its a couple current parents and a couple "former player" parents.

Fact is that what would be the current senior class playing (less two seniors still on the team), tried to get a change of coaching last summer. They indicated that everything they were promised when they were recruited and came (player development, Alumni involvement, quality coaching) was a sham. They indicated that Tarnow, in no way, should be coaching at Trinity (or any NESCAC), and that they wanted better, not just for themselves, but for the better of Trinity and all the young men that would play after them. They loved Trinity Lacrosse that much. They knew the risks... that Tarnow may find out, take retribution, bench them, etc - but they deemed that risk acceptable to try to make Trinity Lacrosse a respectable program.

Ultimately the AD and the administration ignored the pleas of the players for something better and indicated they had a "process" and they would take care of it. At the end of the day nothing was done.

Unfortunately, some of the players and a couple parents saw an opportunity here. They could get in good with the coach - maybe more playing time? Maybe not get benched... maintain the status quo? So... every indication is that they went to Tarnow and told them exactly what was going on.

As expected, Tarnow took retribution. Not speaking to Seniors. Putting juniors in charge of Fall Ball. Telling some of the seniors that they should not expect to play. I heard the quotes "You threatened my livelihood” and “be concerned about even seeing the field". This was not said to players riding the bench, it was to players who had played every game of their college career. Many of the seniors played every game and were serious about the game. They would rather be playing now. They love the game and the school.

Tarnow created such a toxic environment that they no longer wanted to play the game. Certainly not for him. There was a very high level of mental anguish and stress for these young men. Playing the game they loved for 16 years, doing everything to get recruited to play in college, and now not having any fun playing it and scared of the coach. Listening to "team building" events that alluded to them trying to get him fired. "Team Building" events that indicated only those who were "trusted" would play... not even understanding the irony that the whole team knew he interviewed all summer at other schools. One-by-one they started to quit.

It is absolutely heart-breaking as a parent to watch your kid stop playing a game that you watched them play since they were six. Especially in what should have been their best year.

When you see Trinity do well… compliment the players. That coach makes them worse.

There… it’s out. So when you asked if Tarnow kicked someone's dog? Its much much worse than that. It's personal.

This will be my last post as I agree it is getting old. I do want to clear the air about a key point though as there is some mistruths in this post. Wasn’t one of the players in the group of players who wanted the coach out named as a captain of the team this year before he chose to quit? That doesn’t sound like retribution to me. Sounds like players were given an opportunity to earn what they deserved.

[FairLax]

Let’s not get away from the Coach Tarnow issue too quickly.

There's been a lot of back-and-forth here. I presume its a couple current parents and a couple "former player" parents.

Fact is that what would be the current senior class playing (less two seniors still on the team), tried to get a change of coaching last summer. They indicated that everything they were promised when they were recruited and came (player development, Alumni involvement, quality coaching) was a sham. They indicated that Tarnow, in no way, should be coaching at Trinity (or any NESCAC), and that they wanted better, not just for themselves, but for the better of Trinity and all the young men that would play after them. They loved Trinity Lacrosse that much. They knew the risks... that Tarnow may find out, take retribution, bench them, etc - but they deemed that risk acceptable to try to make Trinity Lacrosse a respectable program.

Ultimately the AD and the administration ignored the pleas of the players for something better and indicated they had a "process" and they would take care of it. At the end of the day nothing was done.

Unfortunately, some of the players and a couple parents saw an opportunity here. They could get in good with the coach - maybe more playing time? Maybe not get benched... maintain the status quo? So... every indication is that they went to Tarnow and told them exactly what was going on.

As expected, Tarnow took retribution. Not speaking to Seniors. Putting juniors in charge of Fall Ball. Telling some of the seniors that they should not expect to play. I heard the quotes "You threatened my livelihood” and “be concerned about even seeing the field". This was not said to players riding the bench, it was to players who had played every game of their college career. Many of the seniors played every game and were serious about the game. They would rather be playing now. They love the game and the school.

Tarnow created such a toxic environment that they no longer wanted to play the game. Certainly not for him. There was a very high level of mental anguish and stress for these young men. Playing the game they loved for 16 years, doing everything to get recruited to play in college, and now not having any fun playing it and scared of the coach. Listening to "team building" events that alluded to them trying to get him fired. "Team Building" events that indicated only those who were "trusted" would play... not even understanding the irony that the whole team knew he interviewed all summer at other schools. One-by-one they started to quit.

It is absolutely heart-breaking as a parent to watch your kid stop playing a game that you watched them play since they were six. Especially in what should have been their best year.

When you see Trinity do well… compliment the players. That coach makes them worse.

There… it’s out. So when you asked if Tarnow kicked someone's dog? Its much much worse than that. It's personal.

This will be my last post as I agree it is getting old. I do want to clear the air about a key point though as there is some mistruths in this post. Wasn’t one of the players in the group of players who wanted the coach out named as a captain of the team this year before he chose to quit? That doesn’t sound like retribution to me. Sounds like players were given an opportunity to earn what they deserved.

Named a captain. No he was voted a captain. Big difference. There are zero mistruths to this post.

[KMAR65]

Most penalty minutes in the NESCAC (averaging almost 6 minutes a game) - that is coaching.

[DeepPocket]

The 'named captains' were the sons of the sycophants.

Most penalty minutes in the NESCAC (averaging almost 6 minutes a game) - that is coaching.

So the NESCAC is both the best conference in DIII lacrosse, and home to the only instance of “daddy-ball” I’ve ever heard of in college lacrosse across all divisions. Sad if true.

[Unknown Participant]

The 'named captains' were the sons of the sycophants.

Most penalty minutes in the NESCAC (averaging almost 6 minutes a game) - that is coaching.

You must be referring to 77 then?

[smoova]

The 'named captains' were the sons of the sycophants.

Most penalty minutes in the NESCAC (averaging almost 6 minutes a game) - that is coaching.

So the NESCAC is both the best conference in DIII lacrosse, and home to the only instance of “daddy-ball” I’ve ever heard of in college lacrosse across all divisions. Sad if true.

You may be fairly new to the sport, but parent money/influence has been impacting roster spots, captaincy, playing time, etc. at every college level since before we had strings in the back of our helmets. The more the school/program needs external financial support, the more vulnerable it is to parent interference.

[DeepPocket]

The 'named captains' were the sons of the sycophants.

Most penalty minutes in the NESCAC (averaging almost 6 minutes a game) - that is coaching.

So the NESCAC is both the best conference in DIII lacrosse, and home to the only instance of “daddy-ball” I’ve ever heard of in college lacrosse across all divisions. Sad if true.

You may be fairly new to the sport, but parent money/influence has been impacting roster spots, captaincy, playing time, etc. at every college level since before we had strings in the back of our helmets. The more the school/program needs external financial support, the more vulnerable it is to parent interference.

Not new to the sport, I guess I’m just new to needing to buy my way onto a roster, or worrying about what anyone else did or didn’t do. Played my way onto a roster, and never payed much attention to anyone else’s sh*t.

[UpperCorner22]

I can understand a beef with a coach and a program - let's not name individual players here. I am certain all of the players in the NESCAC are fine young men.

[smoova]

... and never payed much attention to anyone else’s sh*t.

But here you are ...

[warriorslax17]

As the great Logan Roy once said, "I love you, but you are not serious people." The Trinity discussion in this forum reflects an unserious program with unserious individuals on all sides- parents, administrators, coaches, etc. Hope it changes because the school should be a good draw for northeast talent. In the meantime, maybe relegate them and bring up Taft or Brunswick.

[Bucket]

Middlebury wins at St. Lawrence, 11-10. William Ryan with 6 goals and an assist.

[InsiderRoll]

And just like that Wesleyan and Williams Pool C chances take a big hit.

[JaxsonGrey68]

And just like that Wesleyan and Williams Pool C chances take a big hit.

Great win for Trinity. Would think Wesleyan would have to get to the CAC final to even have a chance. Bantams to the 7th or 6th seed if they can go to Hamilton and win.

St Lawrence proved they are for real going the distance. Big win for Midd.

[InsiderRoll]

I truly don’t have a dog in the Trinity fight. But it seems as though this Trinity team is as good or better than any Trinity team they’ve had in the last few years. Perhaps coach Tarnow needed to fix the culture and the seniors were more the problem than the solution…?

Just saying. Addition by subtraction is a real thing. Based on what’s already been said here by what I assume is a parent they went and tried to get the head coach fired because they were unhappy. It’s their point of view, it’s just as likely that those kids and parents felt entitled to something they didn’t actually deserve or that they couldn’t handle the reigns being tightened on the program. Always two sides to the story.