Sensible Gun Safety

[MDlaxfan76]

He's just baiting you craddle.

Was I?

Seems to me that cradle starting referring to me out of the blue with various insults and scorn...I sure as heck didn't start anything with him.

[jhu72]

The solution to gun violence in schools: Every parent to purchase a high value life insurance policy for their child. Put America's god to work on the problem.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CqYfghUpYSR ... MyMTA2M2Y=

Nice.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Permitless carry in Florida. No restrictions on 18-20 year olds in Minnesota.

https://apnews.com/article/guns-firearm ... 8d4baaaa1e

We are going to be wearing armor to the grocery store, flak vests to church and kevlar to concerts. We'll just adapt, right?

[MDlaxfan76]

Permitless carry in Florida. No restrictions on 18-20 year olds in Minnesota.

https://apnews.com/article/guns-firearm ... 8d4baaaa1e

We are going to be wearing armor to the grocery store, flak vests to church and kevlar to concerts. We'll just adapt, right?

Race to the bottom by the GOP.
Narrowing their base, alienating independents.

I don't know what the breaking point will be in Florida, but if you keep passing legislation that 60+% of US citizens disagree with, you're going to lose a whole lot of elections nationally. Rhetoric is one thing, actual legislation makes the extremism real.

Extremist legislation on guns and reproductive rights may be what ultimately break the fever in Florida, they're certainly doing so in places like Wisconsin.

[old salt]

A sense of “resentment” might have played a role in a 28-year-old’s deadly attack on the private Christian school they once attended, Nashville police said Monday.

My guess is that The Covenant School didn’t hold in high regard people from the LGBT community. Not to mention the region as well. That can certainly bear heavily on one’s sense of self worth over time. Most bear through it and some don’t.

A good friend of mine had both of her boys go through a Christian school affiliated with her evangelical church (brother in law is principal). The younger son came out as gay after college. He is like a son to me. I can tell you that it was not easy going through school being told how deviant people like him are. Fortunately he is very resilient and very successful today, but you always have to live with someone having an issue with your life.

I thought the Covenant School was affiliated with the Presbyterian Church ? Are they evangelical ?

[RedFromMI]

A sense of “resentment” might have played a role in a 28-year-old’s deadly attack on the private Christian school they once attended, Nashville police said Monday.

My guess is that The Covenant School didn’t hold in high regard people from the LGBT community. Not to mention the region as well. That can certainly bear heavily on one’s sense of self worth over time. Most bear through it and some don’t.

A good friend of mine had both of her boys go through a Christian school affiliated with her evangelical church (brother in law is principal). The younger son came out as gay after college. He is like a son to me. I can tell you that it was not easy going through school being told how deviant people like him are. Fortunately he is very resilient and very successful today, but you always have to live with someone having an issue with your life.

I thought the Covenant School was affiliated with the Presbyterian Church ? Are they evangelical ?

The particular affiliation of Covenant Presbyterian Church in Nashville is PCA - which is among the most conservative of the Presbyterian family of denominations. No women in leadership roles (elder, pastor). Think close to philosophy of Bob Jones University...

The mainline version of Presbyterianism is the PCUSA. Much different than PCA. (I am an elder in the PCUSA)

[old salt]

A sense of “resentment” might have played a role in a 28-year-old’s deadly attack on the private Christian school they once attended, Nashville police said Monday.

My guess is that The Covenant School didn’t hold in high regard people from the LGBT community. Not to mention the region as well. That can certainly bear heavily on one’s sense of self worth over time. Most bear through it and some don’t.

A good friend of mine had both of her boys go through a Christian school affiliated with her evangelical church (brother in law is principal). The younger son came out as gay after college. He is like a son to me. I can tell you that it was not easy going through school being told how deviant people like him are. Fortunately he is very resilient and very successful today, but you always have to live with someone having an issue with your life.

I thought the Covenant School was affiliated with the Presbyterian Church ? Are they evangelical ?

The particular affiliation of Covenant Presbyterian Church in Nashville is PCA - which is among the most conservative of the Presbyterian family of denominations. No women in leadership roles (elder, pastor). Think close to philosophy of Bob Jones University...

The mainline version of Presbyterianism is the PCUSA. Much different than PCA. (I am an elder in the PCUSA)

Is the PCA evangelical ? Are they born again ? Are they EPC ?

[RedFromMI]

A sense of “resentment” might have played a role in a 28-year-old’s deadly attack on the private Christian school they once attended, Nashville police said Monday.

My guess is that The Covenant School didn’t hold in high regard people from the LGBT community. Not to mention the region as well. That can certainly bear heavily on one’s sense of self worth over time. Most bear through it and some don’t.

A good friend of mine had both of her boys go through a Christian school affiliated with her evangelical church (brother in law is principal). The younger son came out as gay after college. He is like a son to me. I can tell you that it was not easy going through school being told how deviant people like him are. Fortunately he is very resilient and very successful today, but you always have to live with someone having an issue with your life.

I thought the Covenant School was affiliated with the Presbyterian Church ? Are they evangelical ?

The particular affiliation of Covenant Presbyterian Church in Nashville is PCA - which is among the most conservative of the Presbyterian family of denominations. No women in leadership roles (elder, pastor). Think close to philosophy of Bob Jones University...

The mainline version of Presbyterianism is the PCUSA. Much different than PCA. (I am an elder in the PCUSA)

Is the PCA evangelical ? Are they born again ? Are they EPC ?

Roots of the denomination date back to 1973, when it was created with membership a number of southern PCUS (mainline southern version of Presbyterians) churches unhappy about the upcoming merger with the northern mainline UPCUSA denomination that created the PCUSA. Did not want a host of more "liberal" theological views as part of their denomination.

Most are very Calvinist, but some have an evangelical bent. Not the modern EPC which is yet another branch of more conservative theological thought. The idea of "born again" is not generally a Presbyterian/Calvinist construct regardless of level of conservatism in theology from my experience, but more likely to be found in a more Baptist perspective.

[old salt]

A sense of “resentment” might have played a role in a 28-year-old’s deadly attack on the private Christian school they once attended, Nashville police said Monday.

My guess is that The Covenant School didn’t hold in high regard people from the LGBT community. Not to mention the region as well. That can certainly bear heavily on one’s sense of self worth over time. Most bear through it and some don’t.

A good friend of mine had both of her boys go through a Christian school affiliated with her evangelical church (brother in law is principal). The younger son came out as gay after college. He is like a son to me. I can tell you that it was not easy going through school being told how deviant people like him are. Fortunately he is very resilient and very successful today, but you always have to live with someone having an issue with your life.

I thought the Covenant School was affiliated with the Presbyterian Church ? Are they evangelical ?

The particular affiliation of Covenant Presbyterian Church in Nashville is PCA - which is among the most conservative of the Presbyterian family of denominations. No women in leadership roles (elder, pastor). Think close to philosophy of Bob Jones University...

The mainline version of Presbyterianism is the PCUSA. Much different than PCA. (I am an elder in the PCUSA)

Is the PCA evangelical ? Are they born again ? Are they EPC ?

Roots of the denomination date back to 1973, when it was created with membership a number of southern PCUS (mainline southern version of Presbyterians) churches unhappy about the upcoming merger with the northern mainline UPCUSA denomination that created the PCUSA. Did not want a host of more "liberal" theological views as part of their denomination.

Most are very Calvinist, but some have an evangelical bent. Not the modern EPC which is yet another branch of more conservative theological thought. The idea of "born again" is not generally a Presbyterian/Calvinist construct regardless of level of conservatism in theology from my experience, but more likely to be found in a more Baptist perspective.

Thanks. I was baptized & grew up in a United Presbyterian Church (UPCUSA ?) which I think merged to become part of the PCUSA.
Very restrained. Nothing like the Evangelical tent rallies that passed through. We shared a church building with a United Church of Christ, which still referred to themselves as Evangelicals because they had been part of the Evangelical and Reformed Synod * (concentrated in the St Louis area) who merged into the United Church of Christ (UCC). Most of my relatives belonged to the UCC. The churches alternated Sundays. I ended up attending both & noticed little difference. All German Calvinist roots.

* The Evangelical Synod of North America (not to be confused with the Evangelical Church, later part of the Evangelical United Brethren Church) was founded in 1840 at Gravois Settlement, Missouri, by a union of Reformed and Lutheran Christians in a manner similar to the creation of the Prussian Union in the early 19th century.[1] In its early years, this union was known as the German Evangelical Church Association of the West.

The epicenter of the component Evangelical tradition was (and is to this day, within the UCC) Saint Louis, Missouri, with a particularly heavy concentration of parishes within a 75-mile radius, in Missouri and Illinois. Elsewhere, Evangelicals tended to settle in large cities of the Midwest, including Cincinnati, Louisville, Detroit, Milwaukee, and Chicago. Rural Evangelical strongholds included southwestern Indiana, southern Michigan and Iowa. In the Southern United States, the ESNA was found primarily in central Texas and New Orleans. These concentrations of German settlement also witnessed a large influx of more confessionally-oriented Lutherans, who formed the current-day Lutheran Church–Missouri Synod in opposition to the syncretism they believed the Evangelicals represented. Almost all other of the contemporaneous Germans were Roman Catholic.

[SCLaxAttack]

Is there a particular reason or importance as to why the affiliation to a particular Presbyterian organization or evangelism of the the Covenant School is being discussed, or simply curiosity?

[RedFromMI]

Is there a particular reason or importance as to why the affiliation to a particular Presbyterian organization or evangelism of the the Covenant School is being discussed, or simply curiosity?

I think OS's experience growing up in a predecessor of PCUSA is quite different from the PCA conservatism - even though the roots of Presbyterianism in Calvinism are the same, the end results are quite different.

Presbyterians have a complex history in America - the following picture might help (I am linking only because of its size): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ctions.jpg

[MDlaxfan76]

Is there a particular reason or importance as to why the affiliation to a particular Presbyterian organization or evangelism of the the Covenant School is being discussed, or simply curiosity?

From reading back through the thread, there was a supposition (from police) that the attitudes at this Christian school may have contributed to the shooter's motivation.

Salty asked whether the school was Presbyterian, himself having grown up Presbyterian...and asked whether "evangelical". Perhaps because the earlier discussions had suggested that evangelical christianity has been at odds with LGBTQ community (actually not 100% true, there are evangelical communities that welcome all, as they are, though it would be fair to say that many, probably most, do not).

Red provided details about some of the quite different denominations within Presbyterianism. (there are a lot of branches)

This school is one with sharply conservative beliefs, beliefs akin to the loudest such we see in evangelical world.

[old salt]

Is there a particular reason or importance as to why the affiliation to a particular Presbyterian organization or evangelism of the the Covenant School is being discussed, or simply curiosity?

From reading back through the thread, there was a supposition (from police) that the attitudes at this Christian school may have contributed to the shooter's motivation.

Salty asked whether the school was Presbyterian, himself having grown up Presbyterian...and asked whether "evangelical". Perhaps because the earlier discussions had suggested that evangelical christianity has been at odds with LGBTQ community (actually not 100% true, there are evangelical communities that welcome all, as they are, though it would be fair to say that many, probably most, do not).

Red provided details about some of the quite different denominations within Presbyterianism. (there are a lot of branches)

This school is one with sharply conservative beliefs, beliefs akin to the loudest such we see in evangelical world.

...& some Evangelical churches, like the UCC church we shared a building with, don't fit the stereotype often inferred when "evangelical" is in their name.

[old salt]

Presbyterians have a complex history in America - the following picture might help (I am linking only because of its size): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ctions.jpg

Thanks for the wiring diagram. Do you have one that explains predestination ? ( ...Presbyterian inside joke)

[MDlaxfan76]

Is there a particular reason or importance as to why the affiliation to a particular Presbyterian organization or evangelism of the the Covenant School is being discussed, or simply curiosity?

From reading back through the thread, there was a supposition (from police) that the attitudes at this Christian school may have contributed to the shooter's motivation.

Salty asked whether the school was Presbyterian, himself having grown up Presbyterian...and asked whether "evangelical". Perhaps because the earlier discussions had suggested that evangelical christianity has been at odds with LGBTQ community (actually not 100% true, there are evangelical communities that welcome all, as they are, though it would be fair to say that many, probably most, do not).

Red provided details about some of the quite different denominations within Presbyterianism. (there are a lot of branches)

This school is one with sharply conservative beliefs, beliefs akin to the loudest such we see in evangelical world.

...& some Evangelical churches, like the UCC church we shared a building with, don't fit the stereotype often inferred when "evangelical" is in their name.

Yes, the diversity of various denominations, between them and within them, is way more than most folks understand.

That's true of each of the major religions, heck of a lot of diversity of belief and practice in each.

[NattyBohChamps04]

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.



-Emo Philips

[a fan]

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.



-Emo Philips

Ok...that's the best and most obscure cultural reference anyone has made at this Forum. And it suited the conversation perfectly.

Bravo!

[DocBarrister]

Permitless carry in Florida. No restrictions on 18-20 year olds in Minnesota.

https://apnews.com/article/guns-firearm ... 8d4baaaa1e

We are going to be wearing armor to the grocery store, flak vests to church and kevlar to concerts. We'll just adapt, right?

Race to the bottom by the GOP.
Narrowing their base, alienating independents.

I don't know what the breaking point will be in Florida, but if you keep passing legislation that 60+% of US citizens disagree with, you're going to lose a whole lot of elections nationally. Rhetoric is one thing, actual legislation makes the extremism real.

Extremist legislation on guns and reproductive rights may be what ultimately break the fever in Florida, they're certainly doing so in places like Wisconsin.

California went through all of this in the 1990s. California had a bigoted, racist Republican governor. White conservatives passed Prop 187. White xenophobes passed anti-immigration bills.

It was all futile. White moderates and liberals joined Latinos, African Americans, Asian Americans and others to take over the state, making the Golden State into a laboratory of liberal ideas and policies. California is now the greatest and most powerful state in the nation. We are a global powerhouse with an economy larger that Russia and India’s.

The MAGA crowd is still here, of course, but they have been relegated to insignificance. Kevin McCarthy is Speaker, but not even the most magnificent manor can be free of cockroaches.

That is the inevitable future faced by the Republican Party. In a couple of decades, when the aging far right has largely died out, today’s liberal young Americans will control the nation, and the nation will be better for it.

California is just a preview of America’s future, and it is glorious.

DocBarrister

[JoeMauer89]

Permitless carry in Florida. No restrictions on 18-20 year olds in Minnesota.

https://apnews.com/article/guns-firearm ... 8d4baaaa1e

We are going to be wearing armor to the grocery store, flak vests to church and kevlar to concerts. We'll just adapt, right?

Race to the bottom by the GOP.
Narrowing their base, alienating independents.

I don't know what the breaking point will be in Florida, but if you keep passing legislation that 60+% of US citizens disagree with, you're going to lose a whole lot of elections nationally. Rhetoric is one thing, actual legislation makes the extremism real.

Extremist legislation on guns and reproductive rights may be what ultimately break the fever in Florida, they're certainly doing so in places like Wisconsin.

California went through all of this in the 1990s. California had a bigoted, racist Republican governor. White conservatives passed Prop 187. White xenophobes passed anti-immigration bills.

It was all futile. White moderates and liberals joined Latinos, African Americans, Asian Americans and others to take over the state, making the Golden State into a laboratory of liberal ideas and policies. California is now the greatest and most powerful state in the nation. We are a global powerhouse with an economy larger that Russia and India’s.

The MAGA crowd is still here, of course, but they have been relegated to insignificance. Kevin McCarthy is Speaker, but not even the most magnificent manor can be free of cockroaches.

That is the inevitable future faced by the Republican Party. In a couple of decades, when the aging far right has largely died out, today’s liberal young Americans will control the nation, and the nation will be better for it.

California is just a preview of America’s future, and it is glorious.

DocBarrister

No thanks.

Joe