FanLax Forum Poll

[FanLax Computer]

Duke has aa better record against a similar (though a touch weaker) SoS, and just beat Virginia, handily, at Virginia. Duke gets my vote over UVa.

Team A beat UVA, Penn, and UNC and lost to Jacksonville.
Team B beat Notre Dame, Hopkins, and Michigan and lost to UMD and Duke.
Who gets the nod? I'd say Team B. Their Ws are a tie and then Team B gets the nod based on better losses.

[The real beast]

Duke has aa better record against a similar (though a touch weaker) SoS, and just beat Virginia, handily, at Virginia. Duke gets my vote over UVa.

Team A beat UVA, Penn, and UNC and lost to Jacksonville.
Team B beat Notre Dame, Hopkins, and Michigan and lost to UMD and Duke.
Who gets the nod? I'd say Team B. Their Ws are a tie and then Team B gets the nod based on better losses.

Pointless. Team A beat Team B

[Matnum PI]

So, what’s with HGK not ranking Hopkins while ranking no fewer than SEVEN teams that Hopkins has defeated?
C’mon, that ain’t just a mistake.

Sounds like a legit question to me...

[Matnum PI]

Pointless. Team A beat Team B

You can't base rankings on head-to-head. Inevitably it leads to chasing your tail. Like... Jacksonville should be #1 because they beat Duke...

[ICGrad]

Duke has aa better record against a similar (though a touch weaker) SoS, and just beat Virginia, handily, at Virginia. Duke gets my vote over UVa.

Team A beat UVA, Penn, and UNC and lost to Jacksonville.
Team B beat Notre Dame, Hopkins, and Michigan and lost to UMD and Duke.
Who gets the nod? I'd say Team B. Their Ws are a tie and then Team B gets the nod based on better losses.

One of the places where your algorithm breaks down: In this case, counting two losses as better then a single loss, based solely on the "quality" of the loss(es).

Same issue with earlier in the season, Yale v. Cornell. When there isn't enough data, you "make up" data to fill the gaps and end up with a questionable result.

Look, I have no issue with you declaring UVa #1 based on your algorithm, but declaring people voting Duke #1 are flawed gets tiresome. Just like RPI calcs, your calculation is decent for providing a 2000-foot overview, and nothing more.

[Wheels]

How do 4 out of 11 pollsters not have Denver in their top 25!?

All of my picks after 20 are pretty much rewarding small conference teams that win.

Denver isn't a Top 20 team, IMO.

[DU-fan]

Can people please explain their justification for the high North Carolina rankings?

They beat Hopkins on 2/14 and don't have another quality win beside Brown with many of their seniors not playing. They beat Syracuse, who may not win another game this year.

UNC lost to Ohio State and Denver. And Duke beat them 15-8. They can't blame that on travel and being jet lagged.

[Matnum PI]

Can people please explain their justification for the high North Carolina rankings?

Brand equity garnered in previous seasons...

[rolldodge]

Can people please explain their justification for the high North Carolina rankings?

They beat Hopkins on 2/14 and don't have another quality win beside Brown with many of their seniors not playing. They beat Syracuse, who may not win another game this year.

UNC lost to Ohio State and Denver. And Duke beat them 15-8. They can't blame that on travel and being jet lagged.

They come in at #10 for me, between Villanova at 1.6 and Loyola at 1.33. The success of Hopkins is buoying their ranking. But the Dartmouth win is as quality as the Brown win also. Rankings have to exist in a context, and for me that context is the NCAA tournament. Top 5 wins are valuable and hard to come by and that Hopkins win might get them in if they can finish strong in the ACC and Hopkins does well down the stretch.

(14/10=1.4) North Carolina 7-3 Mercer (1), Hopkins (7), Syracuse (2), Brown (3), Dartmouth (3), High Point (2), Providence (1) (Ohio State -2, Denver -2, Duke -1)

Top 5 RPI win = 7 points
Top 10 RPI win = 6 points
Top 15 RPI win = 5 points
Top 20 RPI win = 4 points
Top 30 RPI win = 3 point
Top 40 RPI win = 2 points
All other wins = 1 point

Top 10 RPI loss = -1 points
Top 30 RPI loss = -2 point
All other losses = -3 points

[JHU69]

So, what’s with HGK not ranking Hopkins while ranking no fewer than SEVEN teams that Hopkins has defeated?
C’mon, that ain’t just a mistake.

Sounds like a legit question to me...

Probably an error. He's not a jerk.

[Matnum PI]

Probably an error. He's not a jerk.

[Typical Lax Dad]

So, what’s with HGK not ranking Hopkins while ranking no fewer than SEVEN teams that Hopkins has defeated?
C’mon, that ain’t just a mistake.

Sounds like a legit question to me...

Probably an error. He's not a jerk.

I inexplicably left out Loyola last week in my rush to submit my poll

[DocBarrister]

So, what’s with HGK not ranking Hopkins while ranking no fewer than SEVEN teams that Hopkins has defeated?
C’mon, that ain’t just a mistake.

Sounds like a legit question to me...

Probably an error. He's not a jerk.

I inexplicably left out Loyola last week in my rush to submit my poll

Ok, I agree.

I will hold off on calling this “Poll-Gate.”

DocBarrister

[HGK]

So, what’s with HGK not ranking Hopkins while ranking no fewer than SEVEN teams that Hopkins has defeated?
C’mon, that ain’t just a mistake.

Sounds like a legit question to me...

I had Hopkins at 5. Not sure what happened. Apologies

[DocBarrister]

So, what’s with HGK not ranking Hopkins while ranking no fewer than SEVEN teams that Hopkins has defeated?
C’mon, that ain’t just a mistake.

Sounds like a legit question to me...

I had Hopkins at 5. Not sure what happened. Apologies

No apologies necessary. We all just having fun. Thanks for filling out the poll each week. It’s actually a whole lot of work.

DocBarrister

[CU88]

So, what’s with HGK not ranking Hopkins while ranking no fewer than SEVEN teams that Hopkins has defeated?
C’mon, that ain’t just a mistake.

Sounds like a legit question to me...

I had Hopkins at 5. Not sure what happened. Apologies

No apologies necessary. We all just having fun. Thanks for filling out the poll each week. It’s actually a whole lot of work.

DocBarrister

+1

[Matnum PI]

No apologies necessary. We all just having fun. Thanks for filling out the poll each week. It’s actually a whole lot of work.

[FanLax Computer]

Who gets the nod? I'd say Team B. Their Ws are a tie and then Team B gets the nod based on better losses.

Pointless. Team A beat Team B
[/quote]

[FanLax Computer]

One of the places where your algorithm breaks down: In this case, counting two losses as better then a single loss, based solely on the "quality" of the loss(es).

Team A loses to #1 and #2 and beats #4, #5, #6, etc. In theory, they should be #3.
Team B loses to #5 and beats #4, #6, #7, etc. Only 1 loss but, based on the numbers, should be lower than Team A despite Team A having 2 losses. Quality of losses matter.

Same issue with earlier in the season, Yale v. Cornell. When there isn't enough data, you "make up" data to fill the gaps and end up with a questionable result.

Not true. For heaven's sake, I'm a programmed computer. I do what I'm programmed to do and I asm not programmed to make anything up. I don't even know how I would do that...

Look, I have no issue with you declaring UVa #1 based on your algorithm, but declaring people voting Duke #1 are flawed gets tiresome. Just like RPI calcs, your calculation is decent for providing a 2000-foot overview, and nothing more.

[Chousnake]

Pointless. Team A beat Team B

You can't base rankings on head-to-head. Inevitably it leads to chasing your tail. Like... Jacksonville should be #1 because they beat Duke...

Then why have a playoff with games? Why not play 10 games and decide the national champion based on a computer formula that takes "good losses" into account? When teams are close based on other criteria - wins, losses, SOS, etc. - there is NO better criterion than head to head. If that is not the ultimate determinant, the entire exercise is useless. There comes a point when the formula yields ridiculous results and when Team A beat Team B recently (last week!) and the resumes are similar, Team A should be ranked higher, should be seeded higher, and should be selected for the tourney over Team B.