All Things Russia & Ukraine

[a fan]

Go live in Japan for a year, Sport. Then tell us how they think Americans are asses.
They were pretty appreciative in Taiwan when I toured the country in 1976. Ditto for S Korea & Hong Kong.
...& then there was liberty in Australia & the PI.

I'm sure they were. How about Vietnam? Or Iraq? Or Iran? Or the dozens of other countries we've pushed around, and messed with their sh(t over many years?

But sure, I concede your point: Biden is the first POTUS to push America's nonsense overseas. What was I thinking?

Why do we now have a strategic oil reserve ?

Because we're entirely dependent on cheap oil. Why are we entirely dependent on cheap oil, OS, since we're asking questions?

Why did Biden have to drain it to it's lowest ever level ?

Because he thought it would help his political approval because he's a moron.

What is the impact of energy prices in Europe & the global economy ?

Now that the EU has turned away from nuclear? Massive. France has fared well because they CHOSE to install nuclear power. A choice the US was entirely free to make after the gas lines, but didn't. We sent our military to "fix" the problem, instead. Still do.

To demonstrate how little you pay attention. Show us what I've said we should do re. Taiwan.

Where the F do you think I got the term "porcupine" from in our discussion of Taiwan?

But sure, I'm making it all up.

How fast can you & Biden make Taiwan irrelevant with your planned chip factory ?

Faster that Trump, Obama, and Bush did. And certainly faster than you, because it never occurred to you. You just want to sell them weapons, and make them into a porcupines. Because for you, military solutions are the only solution to EVERY problem.

How do you feel about freedom of navigaton in WPac ?

Same as you, but your ego gets in the way of listening, as usual.

You just can't accept that you can't browbeat me into agreeing with you. You're free to believe what you want. Too bad you can't extend that courtesy to others.

What the heck are you talking about? YOU are the only guy here who tells me what and how to post, and whines and complains like this is your forum, and yours alone. You just don't like being told you're wrong, or that you're being a hypocrite, having reversed your supposed ideals based on the party of the person who said or did something. So yep, I'm gonna make fun of you for not caring about Trump break the bank, and then whining about Biden spends a little. If you weren't so arrogant, you'd simply laugh at yourself, realize that you do that, and move on, no big deal.

Nope. Not how you roll.

...& you can stop the gay trolling. I won't be taking your bait.

You mean like how you troll me and call me a liberal? As usual, you can dish it out, but you can't take it.

But please, tell me again how I'm thin skinned.

[a fan]

“Americans” don’t like the French because they pushed back on American Cultural Imperialism…… I stopped buying Lobster Rolls from a guy selling “American” Fries…..guy was so ignorant I decided I can’t give him my money.

What a shocker, OS-----yet another poster understands my point. Gee, maybe I'm not ranting, and am simply correctly pointing out that Biden is doing the same "USA-A-ok" overseas propaganda BS that that last dozen Presidents have.

Maybe Sam Powers can next visit France & school them.

Wouldn't surprise me if they did that.

Give me a magic wand. I'd shut down both USAid and the CIA and their overseas meddling if I could. I can't.

The only difference between you and I is that I understand the US has been telling others what to do since before i was born.

And you think it just started last month. You do you. Welcome to it.

[a fan]

That argument might have been more persuasive had Joe Biden not made our leaving Afghanistan into the debacle it turned into. FTR, I'm pretty sure our allies who are counting on us were paying attention to what unfolded during our own version of Dunkirk. We pretty much armed the new regime with an impressive amount of ammunition and vehicles.

You don't think that that I could find Afghanis who hated that we were there? Hated that we were imposing ourselves on them? From 1979 when we first started arming them....until 2021? They all loved us? No complaints, this is awesome? Who was shooting at our troops if they all loved us?


Put another way: how would you like it if we were a nation with another country's troops stationed here? Patrolling our streets?

How would you like it if Russia or France or China paid for, and installed our leaders?

[old salt]

“Americans” don’t like the French because they pushed back on American Cultural Imperialism…… I stopped buying Lobster Rolls from a guy selling “American” Fries…..guy was so ignorant I decided I can’t give him my money.

What a shocker, OS-----yet another poster understands my point. Gee, maybe I'm not ranting, and am simply correctly pointing out that Biden is doing the same "USA-A-ok" overseas propaganda BS that that last dozen Presidents have.

Maybe Sam Powers can next visit France & school them.

Wouldn't surprise me if they did that.

Give me a magic wand. I'd shut down both USAid and the CIA and their overseas meddling if I could. I can't.

The only difference between you and I is that I understand the US has been telling others what to do since before i was born.
Wrong. I've always felt that way about regime change & nation building.
You recall me criticizing Obama for inspiring the Arab Spring with his Cairo speech & his other Olympian pronouncements.

And you think it just started last month. You do you. Welcome to it.
Our leaders did what they thought they had to do to survive the Cold War. That all changed in 1989. Then the GWOT happened.
...& yes I know you can look back & say what you would have to alter history. The wisdom of backward looking Mon a.m. QB's.

[a fan]

Wrong. I've always felt that way about regime change & nation building.
You recall me criticizing Obama for inspiring the Arab Spring with his Cairo speech & his other Olympian pronouncements.

Yep. I do. And also recall you not wanting to leave Afghanistan.

Our leaders did what they thought they had to do to survive the Cold War.

That's swell. That doesn't mean that they didn't arrogantly do what they did, pushing other nations around, and FORCING people to do what they wished at the point of a gun.

Nice that you conceded my very simple point after tearing me a new one for daring to post here.

You could have said this several posts ago, and spared us both from your yelling at me.

That all changed in 1989. Then the GWOT happened.
...& yes I know you can look back & say what you would have to alter history. The wisdom of backward looking Mon a.m. QB's.

No, and you're too freaking stubborn to figure this out: what's the point to all of this if you don't learn from past mistakes, and apply the learning to new situations that at least appear similar, but have differences ala Taiwan?

Or when you got behind the cockpit, do you and and your team treat every flight as a brand new experience, having learned nothing from your years of flying?

So when point out that we indeed had a choice to not rely on ME oil after we had our first gas line crisis.....look who forgot that lesson in the EU when they bought their energy from Russia? Whoops, right?

I'm not talking about monday morning. I'm talking about the next freaking gam...... so for example: what did we learn from Ukraine, and how can we avoid getting sucked into this same mess with Taiwan?

[old salt]

Go live in Japan for a year, Sport. Then tell us how they think Americans are asses.
They were pretty appreciative in Taiwan when I toured the country in 1976. Ditto for S Korea & Hong Kong.
...& then there was liberty in Australia & the PI.

I'm sure they were. How about Vietnam? Or Iraq? Or Iran? Or the dozens of other countries we've pushed around, and messed with their sh(t over many years? ...& we didn't push Japan around ? We firebombed their cities then nuc'd them.

But sure, I concede your point: Biden is the first POTUS to push America's nonsense overseas. What was I thinking?
Compare Biden to Trump, when it comes to meddling in other nations affairs.

Why do we now have a strategic oil reserve ?

Because we're entirely dependent on cheap oil. Why are we entirely dependent on cheap oil, OS, since we're asking questions? Because we're a big, spread out country. We can't all live in cities & use mass transit.

Why did Biden have to drain it to it's lowest ever level ?

Because he thought it would help his political approval because he's a moron.

What is the impact of energy prices in Europe & the global economy ?

Now that the EU has turned away from nuclear? Massive. France has fared well because they CHOSE to install nuclear power. A choice the US was entirely free to make after the gas lines, but didn't. Blame Jane Fonda & your green dem moron friends. We sent our military to "fix" the problem, instead. Still do.

To demonstrate how little you pay attention. Show us what I've said we should do re. Taiwan.

Where the F do you think I got the term "porcupine" from in our discussion of Taiwan?
Yeah. I said SELL Taiwan the weapons they need to defend themselves. Not donate them. Not get US forces involved.

But sure, I'm making it all up.No. You're projecting again. Recall my words on Strategic Ambiguity & deterrence.

How fast can you & Biden make Taiwan irrelevant with your planned chip factory ?

Faster that Trump, Obama, and Bush did. And certainly faster than you, because it never occurred to you. You just want to sell them weapons, and make them into a porcupines. Because for you, military solutions are the only solution to EVERY problem.
It's what we need to do NOW because we offshored the capability. Now we have to buy time to build it back. obtw, I wanted to keep doing USN port visits to Taiwan & continue doing military exercises with them. I hated it when we stopped going there & working with them. Don't lecture me on Taiwan until you've spent as much time there as I did. I want to deter a war for Taiwan, not invite one.

How do you feel about freedom of navigaton in WPac ?

Same as you, but your ego gets in the way of listening, as usual.
You do understand we need a military to do that, right ? And that requires deficit spending before our ships & aircraft fall apart. Even with that, it better be a short conflict because we don't have the merchant fleet to sustain a lengthy conflict or standoff.

You just can't accept that you can't browbeat me into agreeing with you. You're free to believe what you want. Too bad you can't extend that courtesy to others.

What the heck are you talking about? YOU are the only guy here who tells me what and how to post, and whines and complains like this is your forum, and yours alone. You just don't like being told you're wrong, or that you're being a hypocrite, having reversed your supposed ideals based on the party of the person who said or did something. So yep, I'm gonna make fun of you for not caring about Trump break the bank, and then whining about Biden spends a little. If you weren't so arrogant, you'd simply laugh at yourself, realize that you do that, and move on, no big deal.
Good grief. This redundancy is tedious. I told you I gave up on deficit reform after Simpson Bowles went down. We still need a military for defense but can't fund it without the other stuff. Re. Trumps supposed tax cuts. I didn't see them. I told you my taxes went up because of the loss of the SALT deduction, but that was ok with me because I don't believe State & Local taxes should be deductible. I've also told you about my plan for need based SS & Medicare reform. Constantly whining about the deficit & tax cuts in this forum is just pointless virtue signalling.
Nope. Not how you roll. You don't know how I roll unless you examine my 1040.

...& you can stop the gay trolling. I won't be taking your bait.

You mean like how you troll me and call me a liberal? As usual, you can dish it out, but you can't take it.
...no, I just won't fall into your painfully obvious trap.
But please, tell me again how I'm thin skinned.

[cradleandshoot]

That argument might have been more persuasive had Joe Biden not made our leaving Afghanistan into the debacle it turned into. FTR, I'm pretty sure our allies who are counting on us were paying attention to what unfolded during our own version of Dunkirk. We pretty much armed the new regime with an impressive amount of ammunition and vehicles.

You don't think that that I could find Afghanis who hated that we were there? Hated that we were imposing ourselves on them? From 1979 when we first started arming them....until 2021? They all loved us? No complaints, this is awesome? Who was shooting at our troops if they all loved us?


Put another way: how would you like it if we were a nation with another country's troops stationed here? Patrolling our streets?

How would you like it if Russia or France or China paid for, and installed our leaders?

I have no problem with the US getting the hell out of there. The manner how that was accomplished was a disorganized disaster that can't be questioned. When the Biden administration chose to enforce a strict time limit on that withdrawal that is when the chit show began. The withdrawal could have been accomplished in a timely orderly manner that didn't have to adhere to a strict schedule of leaving by such and such a date. The ensuing chaos among our forces and the Afghans in full fledged panic mode did not have to happen.

[Typical Lax Dad]

That argument might have been more persuasive had Joe Biden not made our leaving Afghanistan into the debacle it turned into. FTR, I'm pretty sure our allies who are counting on us were paying attention to what unfolded during our own version of Dunkirk. We pretty much armed the new regime with an impressive amount of ammunition and vehicles.

You don't think that that I could find Afghanis who hated that we were there? Hated that we were imposing ourselves on them? From 1979 when we first started arming them....until 2021? They all loved us? No complaints, this is awesome? Who was shooting at our troops if they all loved us?


Put another way: how would you like it if we were a nation with another country's troops stationed here? Patrolling our streets?

How would you like it if Russia or France or China paid for, and installed our leaders?

I have no problem with the US getting the hell out of there. The manner how that was accomplished was a disorganized disaster that can't be questioned. When the Biden administration chose to enforce a strict time limit on that withdrawal that is when the chit show began. The withdrawal could have been accomplished in a timely orderly manner that didn't have to adhere to a strict schedule of leaving by such and such a date. The ensuing chaos among our forces and the Afghans in full fledged panic mode did not have to happen.

The problem was our siding with the Taliban and then drawing down to a skeleton crew.

[cradleandshoot]

That argument might have been more persuasive had Joe Biden not made our leaving Afghanistan into the debacle it turned into. FTR, I'm pretty sure our allies who are counting on us were paying attention to what unfolded during our own version of Dunkirk. We pretty much armed the new regime with an impressive amount of ammunition and vehicles.

You don't think that that I could find Afghanis who hated that we were there? Hated that we were imposing ourselves on them? From 1979 when we first started arming them....until 2021? They all loved us? No complaints, this is awesome? Who was shooting at our troops if they all loved us?


Put another way: how would you like it if we were a nation with another country's troops stationed here? Patrolling our streets?

How would you like it if Russia or France or China paid for, and installed our leaders?

I have no problem with the US getting the hell out of there. The manner how that was accomplished was a disorganized disaster that can't be questioned. When the Biden administration chose to enforce a strict time limit on that withdrawal that is when the chit show began. The withdrawal could have been accomplished in a timely orderly manner that didn't have to adhere to a strict schedule of leaving by such and such a date. The ensuing chaos among our forces and the Afghans in full fledged panic mode did not have to happen.

The problem was our siding with the Taliban and then drawing down to a skeleton crew.

There are no shortage of errors made and fingers to be pointed. I believe many of the poor decisions made came from leadership or lack there of of the politicians calling the shots. This is true for both parties. The US knew for months we were going to bug out. They had more than enough time to come up with a plan. When the time came to leave what became obvious was that there was no plan.

[MDlaxfan76]

That argument might have been more persuasive had Joe Biden not made our leaving Afghanistan into the debacle it turned into. FTR, I'm pretty sure our allies who are counting on us were paying attention to what unfolded during our own version of Dunkirk. We pretty much armed the new regime with an impressive amount of ammunition and vehicles.

You don't think that that I could find Afghanis who hated that we were there? Hated that we were imposing ourselves on them? From 1979 when we first started arming them....until 2021? They all loved us? No complaints, this is awesome? Who was shooting at our troops if they all loved us?


Put another way: how would you like it if we were a nation with another country's troops stationed here? Patrolling our streets?

How would you like it if Russia or France or China paid for, and installed our leaders?

I have no problem with the US getting the hell out of there. The manner how that was accomplished was a disorganized disaster that can't be questioned. When the Biden administration chose to enforce a strict time limit on that withdrawal that is when the chit show began. The withdrawal could have been accomplished in a timely orderly manner that didn't have to adhere to a strict schedule of leaving by such and such a date. The ensuing chaos among our forces and the Afghans in full fledged panic mode did not have to happen.

The problem was our siding with the Taliban and then drawing down to a skeleton crew.

There are no shortage of errors made and fingers to be pointed. I believe many of the poor decisions made came from leadership or lack there of of the politicians calling the shots. This is true for both parties. The US knew for months we were going to bug out. They had more than enough time to come up with a plan. When the time came to leave what became obvious was that there was no plan.

That's at least close to 'fair'.
I think the contingencies weren't adequately accounted for rather than "no plan".

The Taliban, by comparison, recognized the opportunity they were being given by the huge amount of notice of the withdrawal, without Afghan government buy-in, and prepared to take advantage. We, apparently, didn't adequately account for the swiftness of the collapse of the Afghan gov't and military. Was that because our military thought they could prevail over Trump then Biden about complete withdrawal, persuading them to not get out, so didn't do that contingency planning?...I dunno.

But it was indeed messy. We don't really know whether we could have completely withdrawn without a mess but it's at least possible it could have been better.

[MDlaxfan76]

I was intrigued by Salty's claim that he "didn't see" the Trump/McConnell tax cuts in his own tax returns...

This was Trump's signature "policy" accomplishment, resulting in massive deficits. If you're going to defend Trumpism for supposed "policy" reasons, then you need to own the signature one, no?

[cradleandshoot]

That argument might have been more persuasive had Joe Biden not made our leaving Afghanistan into the debacle it turned into. FTR, I'm pretty sure our allies who are counting on us were paying attention to what unfolded during our own version of Dunkirk. We pretty much armed the new regime with an impressive amount of ammunition and vehicles.

You don't think that that I could find Afghanis who hated that we were there? Hated that we were imposing ourselves on them? From 1979 when we first started arming them....until 2021? They all loved us? No complaints, this is awesome? Who was shooting at our troops if they all loved us?


Put another way: how would you like it if we were a nation with another country's troops stationed here? Patrolling our streets?

How would you like it if Russia or France or China paid for, and installed our leaders?

I have no problem with the US getting the hell out of there. The manner how that was accomplished was a disorganized disaster that can't be questioned. When the Biden administration chose to enforce a strict time limit on that withdrawal that is when the chit show began. The withdrawal could have been accomplished in a timely orderly manner that didn't have to adhere to a strict schedule of leaving by such and such a date. The ensuing chaos among our forces and the Afghans in full fledged panic mode did not have to happen.

The problem was our siding with the Taliban and then drawing down to a skeleton crew.

There are no shortage of errors made and fingers to be pointed. I believe many of the poor decisions made came from leadership or lack there of of the politicians calling the shots. This is true for both parties. The US knew for months we were going to bug out. They had more than enough time to come up with a plan. When the time came to leave what became obvious was that there was no plan.

That's at least close to 'fair'.
I think the contingencies weren't adequately accounted for rather than "no plan".

The Taliban, by comparison, recognized the opportunity they were being given by the huge amount of notice of the withdrawal, without Afghan government buy-in, and prepared to take advantage. We, apparently, didn't adequately account for the swiftness of the collapse of the Afghan gov't and military. Was that because our military thought they could prevail over Trump then Biden about complete withdrawal, persuading them to not get out, so didn't do that contingency planning?...I dunno.

But it was indeed messy. We don't really know whether we could have completely withdrawn without a mess but it's at least possible it could have been better.

[youthathletics]

Austrian Freedom Party leaders walk out on Zelensky....https://twitter.com/WarMonitors/status/ ... 84032?s=20

[cradleandshoot]

That argument might have been more persuasive had Joe Biden not made our leaving Afghanistan into the debacle it turned into. FTR, I'm pretty sure our allies who are counting on us were paying attention to what unfolded during our own version of Dunkirk. We pretty much armed the new regime with an impressive amount of ammunition and vehicles.

You don't think that that I could find Afghanis who hated that we were there? Hated that we were imposing ourselves on them? From 1979 when we first started arming them....until 2021? They all loved us? No complaints, this is awesome? Who was shooting at our troops if they all loved us?


Put another way: how would you like it if we were a nation with another country's troops stationed here? Patrolling our streets?

How would you like it if Russia or France or China paid for, and installed our leaders?

I have no problem with the US getting the hell out of there. The manner how that was accomplished was a disorganized disaster that can't be questioned. When the Biden administration chose to enforce a strict time limit on that withdrawal that is when the chit show began. The withdrawal could have been accomplished in a timely orderly manner that didn't have to adhere to a strict schedule of leaving by such and such a date. The ensuing chaos among our forces and the Afghans in full fledged panic mode did not have to happen.

The problem was our siding with the Taliban and then drawing down to a skeleton crew.

There are no shortage of errors made and fingers to be pointed. I believe many of the poor decisions made came from leadership or lack there of of the politicians calling the shots. This is true for both parties. The US knew for months we were going to bug out. They had more than enough time to come up with a plan. When the time came to leave what became obvious was that there was no plan.

That's at least close to 'fair'.
I think the contingencies weren't adequately accounted for rather than "no plan".

The Taliban, by comparison, recognized the opportunity they were being given by the huge amount of notice of the withdrawal, without Afghan government buy-in, and prepared to take advantage. We, apparently, didn't adequately account for the swiftness of the collapse of the Afghan gov't and military. Was that because our military thought they could prevail over Trump then Biden about complete withdrawal, persuading them to not get out, so didn't do that contingency planning?...I dunno.

But it was indeed messy. We don't really know whether we could have completely withdrawn without a mess but it's at least possible it could have been better.

[cradleandshoot]

That argument might have been more persuasive had Joe Biden not made our leaving Afghanistan into the debacle it turned into. FTR, I'm pretty sure our allies who are counting on us were paying attention to what unfolded during our own version of Dunkirk. We pretty much armed the new regime with an impressive amount of ammunition and vehicles.

You don't think that that I could find Afghanis who hated that we were there? Hated that we were imposing ourselves on them? From 1979 when we first started arming them....until 2021? They all loved us? No complaints, this is awesome? Who was shooting at our troops if they all loved us?


Put another way: how would you like it if we were a nation with another country's troops stationed here? Patrolling our streets?

How would you like it if Russia or France or China paid for, and installed our leaders?

I have no problem with the US getting the hell out of there. The manner how that was accomplished was a disorganized disaster that can't be questioned. When the Biden administration chose to enforce a strict time limit on that withdrawal that is when the chit show began. The withdrawal could have been accomplished in a timely orderly manner that didn't have to adhere to a strict schedule of leaving by such and such a date. The ensuing chaos among our forces and the Afghans in full fledged panic mode did not have to happen.

The problem was our siding with the Taliban and then drawing down to a skeleton crew.

There are no shortage of errors made and fingers to be pointed. I believe many of the poor decisions made came from leadership or lack there of of the politicians calling the shots. This is true for both parties. The US knew for months we were going to bug out. They had more than enough time to come up with a plan. When the time came to leave what became obvious was that there was no plan.

That's at least close to 'fair'.
I think the contingencies weren't adequately accounted for rather than "no plan".

The Taliban, by comparison, recognized the opportunity they were being given by the huge amount of notice of the withdrawal, without Afghan government buy-in, and prepared to take advantage. We, apparently, didn't adequately account for the swiftness of the collapse of the Afghan gov't and military. Was that because our military thought they could prevail over Trump then Biden about complete withdrawal, persuading them to not get out, so didn't do that contingency planning?...I dunno.

But it was indeed messy. We don't really know whether we could have completely withdrawn without a mess but it's at least possible it could have been better.

Excuse me but those contingency plans months in the making should have included Bagram AFB. My bad MD. This chit show happened so fast that our folks pulled the plug on the Bagram and funneled the chitshow onto one location. Take it from there MD and go on record as to what went wrong. What would YOU have done differently?

[old salt]

I was intrigued by Salty's claim that he "didn't see" the Trump/McConnell tax cuts in his own tax returns...

This was Trump's signature "policy" accomplishment, resulting in massive deficits. If you're going to defend Trumpism for supposed "policy" reasons, then you need to own the signature one, no?

My taxes went up on virtually the same AGI. My tax preparer pointed out that the loss of the SALT deduction more than offset any reduction for us in tax rate. Again. No complaint from me. I'm fine with the SALT deduction cap at $10k

I don't defend Trump on ALL policies & decisions. Just the ones I agree with.

[old salt]

We, apparently, didn't adequately account for the swiftness of the collapse of the Afghan gov't and military. Was that because our military thought they could prevail over Trump then Biden about complete withdrawal, persuading them to not get out,

I think yes. Trump's advisors & cabinet were all advising him to withdraw based on Taliban compliance with conditions, not a deadline.
I think there would have been a delay or workaround, similar to Trump's order to withdraw our small force from the Kurdish area of NE Syria.
They never left, just pulled back from the border with Turkey to guard the oil fields & advise our Kurdish allies who still control NE Syria, thanks to our continued, small residual presence. I think Trump would have left a small rotational force at Bagram to reassure & advise the ASF, declare it a withdrawal & take credit, just as he did in NE Syria. NATO forces would likely have remained at their secure air base in the W, near Herat. We'll never know.

[MDlaxfan76]

I was intrigued by Salty's claim that he "didn't see" the Trump/McConnell tax cuts in his own tax returns...

This was Trump's signature "policy" accomplishment, resulting in massive deficits. If you're going to defend Trumpism for supposed "policy" reasons, then you need to own the signature one, no?

My taxes went up on virtually the same AGI. My tax preparer pointed out that the loss of the SALT deduction more than offset any reduction for us in tax rate. Again. No complaint from me. I'm fine with the SALT deduction cap at $10k

I don't defend Trump on ALL policies & decisions. Just the ones I agree with.

I'm fine with agreeing with specific policies, but need to be just as vociferous about condemning those with which you disagree; equal standards...I try to do that regardless of who the POTUS is, which party, etc...of course, that's a little easier as a lifelong R...but not Trumpist.

[MDlaxfan76]

We, apparently, didn't adequately account for the swiftness of the collapse of the Afghan gov't and military. Was that because our military thought they could prevail over Trump then Biden about complete withdrawal, persuading them to not get out,

I think yes. Trump's advisors & cabinet were all advising him to withdraw based on Taliban compliance with conditions, not a deadline.
I think there would have been a delay or workaround, similar to Trump's order to withdraw our small force from the Kurdish area of NE Syria.
They never left, just pulled back from the border with Turkey to guard the oil fields & advise our Kurdish allies who still control NE Syria, thanks to our continued, small residual presence. I think Trump would have left a small rotational force at Bagram to reassure & advise the ASF, declare it a withdrawal & take credit, just as he did in NE Syria. NATO forces would likely have remained at their secure air base in the W, near Herat. We'll never know.

I agree that we'll never know.

We'll never know what Trump would have actually done (we only know that he tried to go much faster but the Pentagon basically ignored him; and we know that he made a deal with the Taliban ignoring the Afghan gov't) so, hey, he might have caved to the military despite his rhetoric. And we don't know whether the military would have/could have executed a heck of a lot better if they'd believed that Biden wouldn't back down from a complete withdrawal as he said we would follow through on...maybe it would have gone better.

All speculative, which is why I think trying to dump on Biden, and giving Trump a pass, is pretty darn stupid...yet that's what a lot of the Trumpist GOP wants to do...

[old salt]

need to be just as vociferous about condemning those with which you disagree

No I don't. If I don't sound off on a policy or decision make no judgement. I probably don't care enough or know enough to comment.