Hobart 2023

[FMUBart]

Not sure who told you in '86 that we were on par with Skidmore? While small liberal arts school rankings are subjective, Hobart has always ranked behind Skidmore, SLU & UofR's of the world.. Having said that, Hobart has consistently graduated highly successful, well-rounded adults. I wouldn't trade my experience(having 4 Nattys obviously helped) for any of the aforementioned(esp. that former all-womens college in Saratoga)!

[stupefied]

One positive of note was was Hobart winning the ground ball battle, thought frosh goalie played fairly well . Handled himself well with ball when under a lot of pressure . Decent 1h, Mark made a few big saves at 7-4 that along with some Hobart miscues changed the complexion. Good luck rest of season .

[Farfromgeneva]

Not sure who told you in '86 that we were on par with Skidmore? While small liberal arts school rankings are subjective, Hobart has always ranked behind Skidmore, SLU & UofR's of the world.. Having said that, Hobart has consistently graduated highly successful, well-rounded adults. I wouldn't trade my experience(having 4 Nattys obviously helped) for any of the aforementioned(esp. that former all-womens college in Saratoga)!

SLU almost went BK in the 80s but have past us only on the 21st century.

The answer is money. Had a conversation recently and it’s not far off to think Gearan has earned as much than he’s generated in new money donations over his tenure.

UofR may be a LL rival in many sports but it’s a University. skidmore was a 7 sister school. SLU different zip code than those two.

But my point was more to comparing Union or RPI in a sport influenced by roster size and the relative impact one player can make on a season.

[Farfromgeneva]

One positive of note was was Hobart winning the ground ball battle, thought frosh goalie played fairly well . Handled himself well with ball when under a lot of pressure . Decent 1h, Mark made a few big saves at 7-4 that along with some Hobart miscues changed the complexion. Good luck rest of season .

I honestly wouldve liked to see more fight in Q3 but ultimately didn’t expect much better out come. Last year was a much more gettable game than this one in reality. Doesn’t change how I feel 24hrs preceding and through game day every year but afterwards I move on.

[FMUBart]

One positive of note was was Hobart winning the ground ball battle, thought frosh goalie played fairly well . Handled himself well with ball when under a lot of pressure . Decent 1h, Mark made a few big saves at 7-4 that along with some Hobart miscues changed the complexion. Good luck rest of season .

I honestly wouldve liked to see more fight in Q3 but ultimately didn’t expect much better out come. Last year was a much more gettable game than this one in reality. Doesn’t change how I feel 24hrs preceding and through game day every year but afterwards I move on.

Without naming names, I would be curious as to how many players on the current roster were in high demand by the top 10 teams..my guess is: very few. Hobart has made a living on grabbing guys that were "under the proverbial radar"; however, until we get a COUPLE of the Shellenberger, Spallina, O'neill types, we will always be a "mid-major" D1 competitor, imho. As FFG has stated, our goal should be to win the A10 every 4-5 years and hope to pick off a game in the NCAA tourney. Any achievement above that is unrealistic. Raymond is probably correct when he says he tries to bring in guys that he can teach the "Hobart way"(whatever that is?) vs trying to swipe guys from the portal. Our national championship aspirations have gone the way of Army football. Unfortunate, but reality is what it is. Having said that, no reason we can't beat Cornell & SU more than once a decade...

[laxjuris]

Having said that, no reason we can't beat Cornell & SU more than once a decade...

You actually provided the reason--good but not elite talent.

[FMUBart]

Having said that, no reason we can't beat Cornell & SU more than once a decade...

You actually provided the reason--good but not elite talent.

True, but you develop from within and gotta believe we can pick off SU 2x and CU 3x every 10 years.

[Farfromgeneva]

Having said that, no reason we can't beat Cornell & SU more than once a decade...

You actually provided the reason--good but not elite talent.

I don’t think that was my words.

Here’s the deal. We had built nice momentum after the disaster that was the tail end of Kerwick through TW. 14 was messy, 15 we ran off a bunch of kids (recall the suspensions for Bryant NEC game) and we’re over reliant on Love (kind of like how much Archer had the ball last year). Hirsch built a stronger D around an above avg goalie and we run to the title and AQ with less overall talent and depth than any team since that year. Blow 2017 after running the table in conference by shatting ourselves in a 5-4 loss to Brynt in the NEC finals after destroying them in the reg season (13-6 maybe?). 18 was a rebuild but the talent was obvious yet post Jackson brown has been suspect on D and at goalie (incl Luccesi though he looked primed in 20 to have a strong senior year).

19/20 weee depth and talent but like almost every year under Raymond we blew games like MSM and RoMo with big leads (and almost blew the semis to SHU which never should’ve happened in 19). 21 talent was still there plus what looked like a really strong FY class but lose some kids to injuries for extended periods like Romm, Baltzer, Barthelme, Ward & Wimer plus it’s not a secret Knox may end an elite talent but isn’t cut out for amateur college field lacrosse team play so 21-22 have losses that make decent ish seasons look worse (is to SHU, Dart, etc) while
Winning games that are maybe toss ups having us believe it’s time to put it together. But reality is the only team truly put together was one of the most talent light in 2016 of any under Raymond. That’s going through 3 d coordinators and now two O coordinators.

I’m not saying I have the answer but I do think change and openness isn’t part of the top of the house and we’re a decade into the regime. Some late switches don’t always help and I don’t mean reeves but Jack Wilson, Cody George could play, Adam bland, Rovere and a few others. A few misses, a few injuries and an unwillingness to broaden the bench and develop depth is what’s got us here. Still in a decade you’d like to think a two year stretch of conference titles and strong run that includes 2-3 top 20 wins is attainable and we haven’t had that and that’s what’s frustrating. Season momentum never happens and certainly not a two year stretch.

2017 - 9-7 reg season title and poor finals performance but losses to Bing and Gate that were flat out embarrassing plus weird loss at SHU. Beat Cornell, Bryant and romo. Turn two of those and it’s 11-5 or even 12-4 and an AQ.
2018 - 4-10, retooling year shot 25% on season w Holden #2 scorer under 20% on volume. Top five offense were Aslanian, Holden, Scott, FYs Archer and Mott. Then drops off w Burr, Hancock and Yanko. Lost 1 goal games to Siena, St Joes, RoMo, MsM plus embarrassing season ending loss to SHU where we didn’t even show up. But encouraging win over Gate. Probably should gotten 2 more wins.
2019- 11-5 but blew last big lead to RoMo in reg season and blew lead late and lost in OT to St Joes. Probably should’ve been at least 12-4 and maybe 13-3 or even 14-2, ran right w solid a Cornell team.
20-covid
21- 6-3 conference only but we looked sloppy and a mess va LIU. Knox pulled early numerous injuries. Lost 13-12 in OT to St Joes where we had an 11-7 lead going into Q4..lost to Bryant 12-14 in NEC. Probably should’ve been at least 7-2 if not better.
22- - 7-6 lost to SHU who was trash last year w half a team out w injuries.
Whatever the heck went down w switching Holtby for LK second half of Bryant game we lost by 2 and shouldn’t have happened. 8-5, 9-4. Couldve has Cuse game w little better wing play and execution on D.

How many more players play meaningful minutes, get more playoff experience and nab 1-2 marginal impactful recruits if we were like:

2017: 11-5
2018: 6-8
2019: 13-3
21: 7-2
22: 8-5/9-4

Vs

17: 9-7
18: 4-10
19: 11-5
21: 6-3
22: 7-6

[Farfromgeneva]

Having said that, no reason we can't beat Cornell & SU more than once a decade...

You actually provided the reason--good but not elite talent.

True, but you develop from within and gotta believe we can pick off SU 2x and CU 3x every 10 years.

I think of it as 4/20. Ten years, two games a year.

[PDSlax]

Not sure who told you in '86 that we were on par with Skidmore? While small liberal arts school rankings are subjective, Hobart has always ranked behind Skidmore, SLU & UofR's of the world.. Having said that, Hobart has consistently graduated highly successful, well-rounded adults. I wouldn't trade my experience(having 4 Nattys obviously helped) for any of the aforementioned(esp. that former all-womens college in Saratoga)!

SLU almost went BK in the 80s but have past us only on the 21st century.

The answer is money. Had a conversation recently and it’s not far off to think Gearan has earned as much than he’s generated in new money donations over his tenure.

UofR may be a LL rival in many sports but it’s a University. skidmore was a 7 sister school. SLU different zip code than those two.

But my point was more to comparing Union or RPI in a sport influenced by roster size and the relative impact one player can make on a season.

My knowledge of Skidmore was mostly what I read in different college guides and what my college guidance advisor told me in high school.

[Farfromgeneva]

Not sure who told you in '86 that we were on par with Skidmore? While small liberal arts school rankings are subjective, Hobart has always ranked behind Skidmore, SLU & UofR's of the world.. Having said that, Hobart has consistently graduated highly successful, well-rounded adults. I wouldn't trade my experience(having 4 Nattys obviously helped) for any of the aforementioned(esp. that former all-womens college in Saratoga)!

SLU almost went BK in the 80s but have past us only on the 21st century.

The answer is money. Had a conversation recently and it’s not far off to think Gearan has earned as much than he’s generated in new money donations over his tenure.

UofR may be a LL rival in many sports but it’s a University. skidmore was a 7 sister school. SLU different zip code than those two.

But my point was more to comparing Union or RPI in a sport influenced by roster size and the relative impact one player can make on a season.

My knowledge of Skidmore was mostly what I read in different college guides and what my college guidance advisor told me in high school.

Reality is by some commonly utilized/valued metrics were last in the LL reputationally other than Ithaca which is regional in nature.

Faculty was strong for a long time but it’s turned over and I can’t speak to current cohort as well but it’s not perceived like the prior generations were clearly.

Too insular and too local which served it fairly well in the 70s and 80s but is inconsistent with how colleges evolved from second half of the 90s on. Massive board-too many voices in the room is problematic. The fact that Gearan is back and has taken out in comp at least 25% of what he’s brought in cumulatively while spending on pet project capex and there’s some that see Mary as successor which would make me vomit of it occurred. We knew the issues from the Dick Hersh era were going to hurt along with not monetizing/max isn’t the alums who made good money on the street but in dying segments like sales and trading compounded the issue of a lost decade of donors then replacing Hersh with a guy afraid to ask for money compounded the problem. Through in a relatively ineffective Hanna administering athletics and all the families involved with the colleges and sucking at the Teat and here we are. It’s like on the field, we haven’t stepped on the throats of the competition and pressed our advantages when we had them but rather got comfortable and complacent and it’s cost us.

But the game ain’t over. Just less time to course correct than before.

[Laxgunea]

Faculty consistently rated among tops in nation, but reputationally and by students ... at least per the ratings they post on the website. That ain't the problem. I think we also have seen double-effects because some of our peers, like SLU, have risen while we have sunk. They rose because they were forced to pivot before we were. We doubled down on the old model.
BUT, none of it should matter for lacrosse. We are a niche school and have been for years. Except for a few circumstances, like Delaney, we will always lose to an Ivy or a big academically successful school like UVA, Duke, etc.... Even with scholarships, we depend on finding guys who want the small school, close relationships, that Hobart offers.
I am not as pessimistic about long term prospects as others. I think we SHOULD be able to win the league every 3 years, on average, with some back to backs in there. And I think we should make the second round of the NCAAs every 5 to 6 years. I think we COULD consistently be a top 20 team, with top 10 or 15 every few years. Maybe I'm dreaming.

[eldeststatesman]

One positive of note was was Hobart winning the ground ball battle, thought frosh goalie played fairly well . Handled himself well with ball when under a lot of pressure . Decent 1h, Mark made a few big saves at 7-4 that along with some Hobart miscues changed the complexion. Good luck rest of season .

I honestly wouldve liked to see more fight in Q3 but ultimately didn’t expect much better out come. Last year was a much more gettable game than this one in reality. Doesn’t change how I feel 24hrs preceding and through game day every year but afterwards I move on.

Without naming names, I would be curious as to how many players on the current roster were in high demand by the top 10 teams..my guess is: very few. Hobart has made a living on grabbing guys that were "under the proverbial radar"; however, until we get a COUPLE of the Shellenberger, Spallina, O'neill types, we will always be a "mid-major" D1 competitor, imho. As FFG has stated, our goal should be to win the A10 every 4-5 years and hope to pick off a game in the NCAA tourney. Any achievement above that is unrealistic. Raymond is probably correct when he says he tries to bring in guys that he can teach the "Hobart way"(whatever that is?) vs trying to swipe guys from the portal. Our national championship aspirations have gone the way of Army football. Unfortunate, but reality is what it is. Having said that, no reason we can't beat Cornell & SU more than once a decade...

One thing thats majorly overlooked is the change of recruiting rules throughout those '14-'18 years. In years past Hobart was able to snag top tier talent at a discount cause all of the "top" guys were commited by sophmore year HS - Most of which turned out to be busts or complacent by the time they got the colligiate level. Thus leaving the late bloomers to mid-major programs - like ours, we really were able to be patient and get high level recruits in the '19 & '20 class . This same sentiment was shared among a ton of programs - Think Tuttle @ SHU , Gibson @ bobby Mo , even schools like BU with Chris Gray . Real game changers that were somewhat late bloomers.

We do not have that luxury anymore since the recruiting time lines have changed and its Sept 1 for everybody Jr year of HS. Not that that provides an excuse / coincidence. But seeing the difference in recruits now - seems like the depth in classes are not as strong as they have been in years past. Recruiting landscape has changed a fair amount - evolve or repeat.

[FMUBart]

Agree Eldest, plus the extra COVID year giving schools with attractive grad programs a leg up. That advantage ends next year..

[cedarlax]

Really impressed with the growth / contributions of Considine this year. Rarely do we see someone go from essentially not playing as a FY, to being one of (if not the) most effective first line midfielders as a soph. Outside of goalies, cant think of any recent examples like this. Kudos to him, he’s poised and shooting the ball well. Says good things about the coaches ability to develop players.

Considine is also a good recruiting example. Pick up a coachable, athletic / physical kid from a hotbed area who may not be ready to play right away - but has a high ceiling. Versus - getting a kid who puts up huge numbers at his small HS, is ready to contribute right away as a freshman, but never gets that much better throughout his career. We see the latter too often.

[BigHoss]

Really impressed with the growth / contributions of Considine this year. Rarely do we see someone go from essentially not playing as a FY, to being one of (if not the) most effective first line midfielders as a soph. Outside of goalies, cant think of any recent examples like this. Kudos to him, he’s poised and shooting the ball well. Says good things about the coaches ability to develop players.

Considine is also a good recruiting example. Pick up a coachable, athletic / physical kid from a hotbed area who may not be ready to play right away - but has a high ceiling. Versus - getting a kid who puts up huge numbers at his small HS, is ready to contribute right away as a freshman, but never gets that much better throughout his career. We see the latter too often.

I think this is a good observation. He really is playing well and has a lot of shake in his dodge which is something we’ve been missing for a few years I feel. I’m really looking forward to seeing these guys start up conference play. I think obviously there are a ton of things to work on, but would be great to see them be competitive in these games.

[stupefied]

Must frustrate Hob fans that Simas tools was never channeled and potential realized

[FMUBart]

Simas does have the tools, shot selection leaves much to be desired, though. It would be my preference to play him more as a 2 way player vs offense only.

[oldbartman]

New Podcast

https://hwsathletics.com/podcasts/hobar ... ode-60/138

Coach talks about mistakes and lack of spark v Cuse. The more interesting part is him speak about the upcoming game v St. Bonnies. Worth a listen. Makes me think Bart will come out cocky/flat verses a team they should beat. Remember Mike Tyson's statement about getting punched in the mouth.

[oldbartman]

I think we lack this mentality as a team. Knowing your a "good" player doesn't get it done at this level. Worth a read imho.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... ears/61064